Joyce Lee on wed 17 may 00
> I guess my use of the term "investment quality art" was inept. I should
> have said "investment art," because of course you are correct in saying
> that there is no way to tell from a casual examination which art objects
> will eventually achieve this status.
In light of what Ray had to say here, I had the strange experience maybe
thirty times recently of displaying some of my work which happened to be
adjacent to some pieces of some deservedly famous potters. My work is
generally profoundly shallow and immature as yet ..... but 22 of the 30
thought that the famous pots were mine, also. The first few times this
happened I truly thought their remarks were just joking around ... the
differences between the famous work and mine were so glaringly obvious
... and then I recalled seeing in person a Lucy Rie small yellow bowl
and, not knowing that she was in the very top echelon of potters and
especially noted for her yellow bowls, thinking that it was "cute,"
"nicely formed," "appealing," ........ but that's it. Of course, when I
first saw VanGogh's "A Starry Night," which now is one of my 25 favorite
paintings, I thought it, too, was "appealing," but that it was a
primitive, if not actually created by a gifted child. I realize that
this says more about me than about the works ... but it does emphasize
for me that name value in art is critical to sales value.
Joyce
In the Mojave out of her realm ........
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on wed 17 may 00
Joyce...
It also shows that "you never know"--- i.e. the person next to you with the
cute yellow bowl could be famous tomorrow.... You could be famous tomorrow
too.
The point is....we can't predict who will have the name value after their
dead....or even when they are alive. The market changes. I thought Lee
Love's post from Japan was intriguing. Students of the great treasures
whose prices are still modest were good investments. But this is beside the
point....which was---interest in pottery is good for business whether we
smell from turnips or Chanel 22 (my favorite scent.)
S.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joyce Lee [SMTP:Joycelee@IWVISP.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 9:37 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: investment quality art
>
> > I guess my use of the term "investment quality art" was inept. I should
> > have said "investment art," because of course you are correct in saying
> > that there is no way to tell from a casual examination which art objects
> > will eventually achieve this status.
>
> In light of what Ray had to say here, I had the strange experience maybe
> thirty times recently of displaying some of my work which happened to be
> adjacent to some pieces of some deservedly famous potters. My work is
> generally profoundly shallow and immature as yet ..... but 22 of the 30
> thought that the famous pots were mine, also. The first few times this
> happened I truly thought their remarks were just joking around ... the
> differences between the famous work and mine were so glaringly obvious
> ... and then I recalled seeing in person a Lucy Rie small yellow bowl
> and, not knowing that she was in the very top echelon of potters and
> especially noted for her yellow bowls, thinking that it was "cute,"
> "nicely formed," "appealing," ........ but that's it. Of course, when I
> first saw VanGogh's "A Starry Night," which now is one of my 25 favorite
> paintings, I thought it, too, was "appealing," but that it was a
> primitive, if not actually created by a gifted child. I realize that
> this says more about me than about the works ... but it does emphasize
> for me that name value in art is critical to sales value.
>
> Joyce
> In the Mojave out of her realm ........
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> ____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Brunner on wed 17 may 00
The other thing that this points out of course Joyce, is
that frequently,
for good or bad, the public can't tell the difference. Even
when we can.
Joyce Lee wrote:
>
> > I guess my use of the term "investment quality art" was inept. I should
> > have said "investment art," because of course you are correct in saying
> > that there is no way to tell from a casual examination which art objects
> > will eventually achieve this status.
>
> In light of what Ray had to say here, I had the strange experience maybe
> thirty times recently of displaying some of my work which happened to be
> adjacent to some pieces of some deservedly famous potters. My work is
> generally profoundly shallow and immature as yet ..... but 22 of the 30
> thought that the famous pots were mine, also. The first few times this
> happened I truly thought their remarks were just joking around ... the
> differences between the famous work and mine were so glaringly obvious
> ... and then I recalled seeing in person a Lucy Rie small yellow bowl
> and, not knowing that she was in the very top echelon of potters and
> especially noted for her yellow bowls, thinking that it was "cute,"
> "nicely formed," "appealing," ........ but that's it. Of course, when I
> first saw VanGogh's "A Starry Night," which now is one of my 25 favorite
> paintings, I thought it, too, was "appealing," but that it was a
> primitive, if not actually created by a gifted child. I realize that
> this says more about me than about the works ... but it does emphasize
> for me that name value in art is critical to sales value.
>
> Joyce
> In the Mojave out of her realm ........
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Cindy Strnad on sat 20 may 00
Hi, Joyce.
No, it's not strange. Eventually, I think you'll want to sell, give away, or
otherwise dispose of your excess production, though. One can only use so
many pots all by oneself.
Cindy Strnad
earthenv@gwtc.net
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
Ray Aldridge on sat 20 may 00
At 11:44 AM 5/20/00 -0400, you wrote:
>>
> SCrew your investment....and your 'Art"..and "business." I make a very
>modest living and pray it remains that way. Don
>Don & Isao Sanami Morrill
This is so pointlessly unpleasant that I can't help but hope that your
living gets even more modest, since that seems to be a virtue from your
viewpoint.
I guess you're right, though. Why should a great potter make as much money
as a divorce lawyer or an insurance salesman? What potters produce is so
much less important. Right? Hell, most of the fine potters I know would
love to make as much as the average plumber. They'd like to be able to
take a vacation occasionally, afford health care, send their kids to college.
But, as you say, screw that.
Ray
Aldridge Porcelain and Stoneware
http://www.goodpots.com
kinoko@OKJUNC2.JUNCTION.NET on sat 20 may 00
At 17:19 5/17/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Joyce...
>It also shows that "you never know"--- i.e. the person next to you with the
>cute yellow bowl could be famous tomorrow.... You could be famous tomorrow
>too.
>
>The point is....we can't predict who will have the name value after their
>dead....or even when they are alive. The market changes. I thought Lee
>Love's post from Japan was intriguing. Students of the great treasures
>whose prices are still modest were good investments. But this is beside the
>point....which was---interest in pottery is good for business whether we
>smell from turnips or Chanel 22 (my favorite scent.)
>S.
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Joyce Lee [SMTP:Joycelee@IWVISP.COM]
>> Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2000 9:37 AM
>> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Subject: investment quality art
>>
>> > I guess my use of the term "investment quality art" was inept. I should
>> > have said "investment art," because of course you are correct in saying
>> > that there is no way to tell from a casual examination which art objects
>> > will eventually achieve this status.
>>
>> In light of what Ray had to say here, I had the strange experience maybe
>> thirty times recently of displaying some of my work which happened to be
>> adjacent to some pieces of some deservedly famous potters. My work is
>> generally profoundly shallow and immature as yet ..... but 22 of the 30
>> thought that the famous pots were mine, also. The first few times this
>> happened I truly thought their remarks were just joking around ... the
>> differences between the famous work and mine were so glaringly obvious
>> ... and then I recalled seeing in person a Lucy Rie small yellow bowl
>> and, not knowing that she was in the very top echelon of potters and
>> especially noted for her yellow bowls, thinking that it was "cute,"
>> "nicely formed," "appealing," ........ but that's it. Of course, when I
>> first saw VanGogh's "A Starry Night," which now is one of my 25 favorite
>> paintings, I thought it, too, was "appealing," but that it was a
>> primitive, if not actually created by a gifted child. I realize that
>> this says more about me than about the works ... but it does emphasize
>> for me that name value in art is critical to sales value.
>>
>> Joyce
>> In the Mojave out of her realm ........
>>
>> __________________________________________________________________________
>> ____
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
SCrew your investment....and your 'Art"..and "business." I make a very
modest living and pray it remains that way. Don
Don & Isao Sanami Morrill
e-Mail:
Joyce Lee on sat 20 may 00
> SCrew your investment....and your 'Art"..and "business." I make a very
> modest living and pray it remains that way. Don
> Don & Isao Sanami Morrill
Do I ever agree with your post, Don! At the last art show AFTER taking
all my pots in and going through the setting up process, I wound up
putting a NOT FOR SALE sign on the whole shebang with a brief statement
about why I'm in pottery and why I make the pots that I do ... one
reason being that I am unable yet to make all the forms I want to make,
of course. Nothing like a little honesty. A number of townspeople called
wanting to buy my "work," which I consider to be my "play." No sale.
I just didn't like the pricing process ... and many of them I wanted to
keep because they clearly mark what progress I've made...with a little
help from my friends. It's not that I mind selling and interacting with
customers; that's the part I like best, like a party. For some reason I
just don't want to sell. Other than those of you who MUST sell because
that's your living (I've already made my living elsewhere and put myself
on the line every day), am I the only clayarter who feels this way?
Friends think that it's very strange.
Joyce
In the Mojave where I move tortoise families out of the road regularly
when desertdocking .... always wonder if they might have been going in
the opposite direction and I ruined their day......
kinoko@OKJUNC2.JUNCTION.NET on sun 21 may 00
At 10:13 5/20/00 -0700, you wrote:
>> SCrew your investment....and your 'Art"..and "business." I make a very
>> modest living and pray it remains that way. Don
>> Don & Isao Sanami Morrill
>
>Do I ever agree with your post, Don! At the last art show AFTER taking
>all my pots in and going through the setting up process, I wound up
>putting a NOT FOR SALE sign on the whole shebang with a brief statement
>about why I'm in pottery and why I make the pots that I do ... one
>reason being that I am unable yet to make all the forms I want to make,
>of course. Nothing like a little honesty. A number of townspeople called
>wanting to buy my "work," which I consider to be my "play." No sale.
>I just didn't like the pricing process ... and many of them I wanted to
>keep because they clearly mark what progress I've made...with a little
>help from my friends. It's not that I mind selling and interacting with
>customers; that's the part I like best, like a party. For some reason I
>just don't want to sell. Other than those of you who MUST sell because
>that's your living (I've already made my living elsewhere and put myself
>on the line every day), am I the only clayarter who feels this way?
>Friends think that it's very strange.
>
>Joyce
>In the Mojave where I move tortoise families out of the road regularly
>when desertdocking .... always wonder if they might have been going in
>the opposite direction and I ruined their day......
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
> Joyce, Thank you. True, I do belabour the point. For myself and Isao, it
is the work which is of greatest importance....yes. "process". From digging
and compounding a useful body,(No longer as often as in the past) to making
glazes and sometimes useing the materials found,here and abouts. The pots
are of course, important although I'm quite certain I have discarde far
more pots than kept. It DOES please mewhen in Japan or elsewhere,I find
pots I made 40 yrs ago..(A few I prefer not to admit.) We are happy and
proud to say that our children are' Generalists' rather than specialists.
At the moment all potting,pasteling,(!) and
photography,,,,comes to a stop as we plant our garden,(No GE seeds). very
often useing old varieties. We have collected seed from 27 types of beans
from Canada,Japan,U.S. and elsewhere.
Isao & Don
Don & Isao Sanami Morrill
e-Mail:
Lee Love on sun 21 may 00
----- Original Message -----
From: Cindy Strnad
|
| No, it's not strange. Eventually, I think you'll want to sell, give away,
or
| otherwise dispose of your excess production, though. One can only use so
| many pots all by oneself.
And if you want to improve your ability, it is good not to become to
attached to what you've already made.
My biggest reason for selling (so far) has been to make room for the new
pots. You either sell them, give them away, throw them in the Mississippi
River or rent a large warehouse. ;^)
--
Lee Love
2858-2-2 , Nanai , Mashiko-machi ,Tochigi-ken 321-4106 JAPAN
Ikiru@kami.com Voice Mail and Faxes (a USA number): (303) 256-0374
Help E.T. Phone Earth: http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
Gayle Bair on sun 21 may 00
Wow, I just had a veritable light bulb go
off in my head!
Thank you Joyce!!!!
Here I have been gauging my success as an artist/potter
on whether I am selling and making lots of $.
At one time that might have been necessary for survival but it isn't now!
Why am I stressing over how much I sell and pricing when that
is not what gives me pleasure!
I got more pleasure practically giving away my best teapot. It was
perfect (by my standards) and I loved that pot. However a lady saw it
and as I watched her holding it and revering it, as her husband and
daughters looked on, I knew who had to own it!
The money I was paid for it is gone and even if I had charged $200 instead
of $35 the money would be gone. The emotional connection will never be gone!
I also got more out of that Xmas sale I did years ago when I gave a pot to a
child who walked home in a snow storm to get his money for a gift for his
mom.
I do not depend on my pottery sales for survival. So why do I make that a
focus......well, I don't now!
Thanks Joyce
Gayle Bair
gaylebair@earthlink.net
> SCrew your investment....and your 'Art"..and "business." I make a very
> modest living and pray it remains that way. Don
> Don & Isao Sanami Morrill
Do I ever agree with your post, Don! At the last art show AFTER taking
all my pots in and going through the setting up process, I wound up
putting a NOT FOR SALE sign on the whole shebang with a brief statement
about why I'm in pottery and why I make the pots that I do ... one
reason being that I am unable yet to make all the forms I want to make,
of course. Nothing like a little honesty. A number of townspeople called
wanting to buy my "work," which I consider to be my "play." No sale.
I just didn't like the pricing process ... and many of them I wanted to
keep because they clearly mark what progress I've made...with a little
help from my friends. It's not that I mind selling and interacting with
customers; that's the part I like best, like a party. For some reason I
just don't want to sell. Other than those of you who MUST sell because
that's your living (I've already made my living elsewhere and put myself
on the line every day), am I the only clayarter who feels this way?
Friends think that it's very strange.
Joyce
In the Mojave where I move tortoise families out of the road regularly
when desertdocking .... always wonder if they might have been going in
the opposite direction and I ruined their day......
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
| |
|
