Earl Brunner on tue 23 may 00
I don't know what Janet is so upset about. I looked at the
links and back tracked in my trash folder to see if there
was something that I had missed.
The only thing I could find was this:
At 10:13 5/20/00 -0700, you wrote:
>> SCrew your investment....and your 'Art"..and "business." I make a very
>> modest living and pray it remains that way. Don
>> Don & Isao Sanami Morrill
Since it was within the context of a quote, I don't know who
wrote it.
That was the worst language I could find and it appears to
be coming from
the "Don" that she says we should respect because he is one
of our "elders"
as if that would serve to allow him to be abusive but not a
"younger" person.
I didn't know we were cataloging people into age groups and
allowing old people slack and castigating "young" people.
So, everyone post your ages so we can treat you accordingly
BTW I'm 50 and I want some respect!
Janet Kaiser wrote:
>
> Following a very rude and abusive reply to Don's words, I too wish to raise
> the subject of respect and moderation on this list. Although Don is quite
> capable of fighting his own corner, just a few words before leaving active
> participation in this "discussion list".
>
> I was taught to respect my elders. In those days we said "elders and
> betters". I realise it is a very unpopular concept in the West these days.
> The young are in the ascendancy and believe themselves to be the only
> important members of society. But that is no reason for playground manners
> and bullying to become the norm on Clay Art or elsewhere. The tone of
> this list deteriorates into a cacophony of discord when any ethical subject
> arises. There is a wild west, lynch mob mentality which I find most
> disturbing and intimidating. That surprises you?
>
> Yes, I can rant and rave as much as anyone. I have also be rude on occasion,
> but it was fairly and squarely admitted at the time and with just cause. The
> names of the original poster were removed and I did not address them by
> name. It was also usually at some injustice done to a third party, someone
> in need of moral support in the face of the self-appointed, one-person
> policeman, judge and jury. Or it was in bald self-defence in the face of
> attack. Knee-jerking reaction? Well, that is as may be, but I was also
> taught to "Call a spade a spade and a bloody shovel if necessary".
>
> For someone celebrating his 80th birthday, Don should be treated with
> respect for that reason alone. Even if he made the most irreverent,
> outrageous, subversive or contentious comments, he should still be treated
> with kindness and respect.
>
> His comment certainly did not deserve a confrontational, rude rejoinder
> which was actually completely out of context. I was embarrassed by it, as
> well as mad. But then I would not rant at my Grandmother, however
> infuriating she was with her comments (in public) in that piercing quality
> of voice peculiar to the elderly deaf and the very young.
>
> It seems to me that some people get away with the most disgraceful conduct
> without any rebuke, whilst others get nothing short of hate mail for the
> most innocuous comments. Genuine and civilised discussion also seems an
> outmoded form of communication and exchange. I do not care for the so-called
> "robust discussion" which is either thinly veiled or open personal verbal
> abuse.
>
> My own frank and candid stand on the internet archiving of ceramic articles
> is now being misinterpreted in all sorts of outrageous ways. My writing
> style obviously does not appeal (at best), is considered too confrontational
> and wild. I do not pussyfoot around enough for Trans Atlantic taste.
>
> That is fair enough. I do not intend upsetting the "moral majority" any
> longer. You will be pleased to hear I have been successfully gagged. I hope
> it comes as a relief and makes all you detractors and antagonists feel
> really good.
>
> They say, "Fools rush in, where Angels fear to tread" and this fool has had
> enough. I will be restricting my humble input to updates on The
> International Potters' Path and information on the UK & Europe that may
> interest readers who would not have access to it otherwise. I will endeavour
> to avoid breaching copyright, so it should be sufficiently PC to suit
> everyone, everywhere.
>
> I sincerely trust Clay Art does not degenerate into a bland exchange of
> recipes and ceramic supply addresses in the USA, which *in theory* could not
> upset anyone, including the cat's mother. But only time will tell.
>
> I look forward to chatting and corresponding OFF-LINE with the many friendly
> and generous people I have met via Clay Art. In the meantime, thank you for
> your support and friendship. It is very much appreciated.
>
> Adieu brave new world
>
> Yours sorrowfully,
>
> Janet Kaiser
> The Chapel of Art, Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales
> Home of The International Potters Path
> TEL: (01766) 523570
> WEB: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
> EMAIL: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
> ----- Original Message -----
> SCrew your investment....and your 'Art"..and "business." I make a very
> modest living and pray it remains that way. Don
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Janet Kaiser on tue 23 may 00
Following a very rude and abusive reply to Don's words, I too wish to raise
the subject of respect and moderation on this list. Although Don is quite
capable of fighting his own corner, just a few words before leaving active
participation in this "discussion list".
I was taught to respect my elders. In those days we said "elders and
betters". I realise it is a very unpopular concept in the West these days.
The young are in the ascendancy and believe themselves to be the only
important members of society. But that is no reason for playground manners
and bullying to become the norm on Clay Art or elsewhere. The tone of
this list deteriorates into a cacophony of discord when any ethical subject
arises. There is a wild west, lynch mob mentality which I find most
disturbing and intimidating. That surprises you?
Yes, I can rant and rave as much as anyone. I have also be rude on occasion,
but it was fairly and squarely admitted at the time and with just cause. The
names of the original poster were removed and I did not address them by
name. It was also usually at some injustice done to a third party, someone
in need of moral support in the face of the self-appointed, one-person
policeman, judge and jury. Or it was in bald self-defence in the face of
attack. Knee-jerking reaction? Well, that is as may be, but I was also
taught to "Call a spade a spade and a bloody shovel if necessary".
For someone celebrating his 80th birthday, Don should be treated with
respect for that reason alone. Even if he made the most irreverent,
outrageous, subversive or contentious comments, he should still be treated
with kindness and respect.
His comment certainly did not deserve a confrontational, rude rejoinder
which was actually completely out of context. I was embarrassed by it, as
well as mad. But then I would not rant at my Grandmother, however
infuriating she was with her comments (in public) in that piercing quality
of voice peculiar to the elderly deaf and the very young.
It seems to me that some people get away with the most disgraceful conduct
without any rebuke, whilst others get nothing short of hate mail for the
most innocuous comments. Genuine and civilised discussion also seems an
outmoded form of communication and exchange. I do not care for the so-called
"robust discussion" which is either thinly veiled or open personal verbal
abuse.
My own frank and candid stand on the internet archiving of ceramic articles
is now being misinterpreted in all sorts of outrageous ways. My writing
style obviously does not appeal (at best), is considered too confrontational
and wild. I do not pussyfoot around enough for Trans Atlantic taste.
That is fair enough. I do not intend upsetting the "moral majority" any
longer. You will be pleased to hear I have been successfully gagged. I hope
it comes as a relief and makes all you detractors and antagonists feel
really good.
They say, "Fools rush in, where Angels fear to tread" and this fool has had
enough. I will be restricting my humble input to updates on The
International Potters' Path and information on the UK & Europe that may
interest readers who would not have access to it otherwise. I will endeavour
to avoid breaching copyright, so it should be sufficiently PC to suit
everyone, everywhere.
I sincerely trust Clay Art does not degenerate into a bland exchange of
recipes and ceramic supply addresses in the USA, which *in theory* could not
upset anyone, including the cat's mother. But only time will tell.
I look forward to chatting and corresponding OFF-LINE with the many friendly
and generous people I have met via Clay Art. In the meantime, thank you for
your support and friendship. It is very much appreciated.
Adieu brave new world
Yours sorrowfully,
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art, Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales
Home of The International Potters Path
TEL: (01766) 523570
WEB: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
EMAIL: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
SCrew your investment....and your 'Art"..and "business." I make a very
modest living and pray it remains that way. Don
Diane Mead on tue 23 may 00
Janet MUST STAY!
I've already earned my MFA just reading her postings!
Please stay for us young, uninformed, green ones
who need you!
Think of us as greenware without a kiln!
Please stay!
Diane Mead
Marek & Pauline Drzazga-Donaldson on wed 24 may 00
----- Original Message -----
From: Earl Brunner
To:
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2000 2:29 AM
Subject: Re: SCrew investment quality art/Cheerio and thank you
> I don't know what Janet is so upset about. I looked at the
> links and back tracked in my trash folder to see if there
> was something that I had missed.
> The only thing I could find was this:
>
> At 10:13 5/20/00 -0700, you wrote:
> >> SCrew your investment....and your 'Art"..and "business." I make a very
> >> modest living and pray it remains that way. Don
> >> Don & Isao Sanami Morrill
>
> Since it was within the context of a quote, I don't know who
> wrote it.
> That was the worst language I could find and it appears to
> be coming from
> the "Don" that she says we should respect because he is one
> of our "elders"
> as if that would serve to allow him to be abusive but not a
> "younger" person.
> I didn't know we were cataloging people into age groups and
> allowing old people slack and castigating "young" people.
> So, everyone post your ages so we can treat you accordingly
> BTW I'm 50 and I want some respect!
>
> Janet Kaiser wrote:
> >
> > Following a very rude and abusive reply to Don's words, I too wish to
raise
> > the subject of respect and moderation on this list. Although Don is
quite
> > capable of fighting his own corner, just a few words before leaving
active
> > participation in this "discussion list".
> >
> > I was taught to respect my elders. In those days we said "elders and
> > betters". I realise it is a very unpopular concept in the West these
days.
> > The young are in the ascendancy and believe themselves to be the only
> > important members of society. But that is no reason for playground
manners
> > and bullying to become the norm on Clay Art or elsewhere. The tone of
> > this list deteriorates into a cacophony of discord when any ethical
subject
> > arises. There is a wild west, lynch mob mentality which I find most
> > disturbing and intimidating. That surprises you?
> >
> > Yes, I can rant and rave as much as anyone. I have also be rude on
occasion,
> > but it was fairly and squarely admitted at the time and with just cause.
The
> > names of the original poster were removed and I did not address them by
> > name. It was also usually at some injustice done to a third party,
someone
> > in need of moral support in the face of the self-appointed, one-person
> > policeman, judge and jury. Or it was in bald self-defence in the face of
> > attack. Knee-jerking reaction? Well, that is as may be, but I was also
> > taught to "Call a spade a spade and a bloody shovel if necessary".
> >
> > For someone celebrating his 80th birthday, Don should be treated with
> > respect for that reason alone. Even if he made the most irreverent,
> > outrageous, subversive or contentious comments, he should still be
treated
> > with kindness and respect.
> >
> > His comment certainly did not deserve a confrontational, rude rejoinder
> > which was actually completely out of context. I was embarrassed by it,
as
> > well as mad. But then I would not rant at my Grandmother, however
> > infuriating she was with her comments (in public) in that piercing
quality
> > of voice peculiar to the elderly deaf and the very young.
> >
> > It seems to me that some people get away with the most disgraceful
conduct
> > without any rebuke, whilst others get nothing short of hate mail for the
> > most innocuous comments. Genuine and civilised discussion also seems an
> > outmoded form of communication and exchange. I do not care for the
so-called
> > "robust discussion" which is either thinly veiled or open personal
verbal
> > abuse.
> >
> > My own frank and candid stand on the internet archiving of ceramic
articles
> > is now being misinterpreted in all sorts of outrageous ways. My writing
> > style obviously does not appeal (at best), is considered too
confrontational
> > and wild. I do not pussyfoot around enough for Trans Atlantic taste.
> >
> > That is fair enough. I do not intend upsetting the "moral majority" any
> > longer. You will be pleased to hear I have been successfully gagged. I
hope
> > it comes as a relief and makes all you detractors and antagonists feel
> > really good.
> >
> > They say, "Fools rush in, where Angels fear to tread" and this fool has
had
> > enough. I will be restricting my humble input to updates on The
> > International Potters' Path and information on the UK & Europe that may
> > interest readers who would not have access to it otherwise. I will
endeavour
> > to avoid breaching copyright, so it should be sufficiently PC to suit
> > everyone, everywhere.
> >
> > I sincerely trust Clay Art does not degenerate into a bland exchange of
> > recipes and ceramic supply addresses in the USA, which *in theory* could
not
> > upset anyone, including the cat's mother. But only time will tell.
> >
> > I look forward to chatting and corresponding OFF-LINE with the many
friendly
> > and generous people I have met via Clay Art. In the meantime, thank you
for
> > your support and friendship. It is very much appreciated.
> >
> > Adieu brave new world
> >
> > Yours sorrowfully,
> >
> > Janet Kaiser
> > The Chapel of Art, Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales
> > Home of The International Potters Path
> > TEL: (01766) 523570
> > WEB: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
> > EMAIL: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > SCrew your investment....and your 'Art"..and "business." I make a very
> > modest living and pray it remains that way. Don
> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
> --
> Earl Brunner
> http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
> mailto:bruec@anv.net
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Hi,
it is the hate mail off line that Janet has received that is upsetting her,
and understanably she is none too pleased that people of supposed
inteligence can lower themselves to such diatribe and utter filth.
Keep to happy potting Marek http://www.moley.uk.com
Jenny Lewis on wed 24 may 00
Janet -
I thought the "Screw Investment quality" message was unnecessary, to
put it mildy. But I think the best action is to ignore it! Ignore
him! Clayart is mostly wonderful, about 99.99 per cent - the
miniscule percentage being people like that who don't stop and think
before sending their messages. It happens. Some people realise at
once and apologise quickly. Some people might apologise after others
have pointed out that they were a bit, shall we say, hasty. Use the
delete button or, if you get the digest, just skip over them.
There's lots of good stuff from REALLY NICE people all over the
world, don't let the rude so-and-so's get you down!
In the past 5 years or so that I have been receiving Clayart, there
have been very few correspondents (maybe 3 at most) whose
messages I have simply skipped (no, I won't name names!) They
don't know or care what I think, I certainly don't care what they
think. But I so enjoy reading everything good on the list, even all
the stuff I don't really understand, trying to learn about, all
those glaze analyses and formula thingies, not to mention flat-top
cross-draft flipflop kiln-building - EVERYTHING. Ignore the baddies,
stick with the good guys and guyesses, who are by far the majority
and worth their collective weight in gold.
Jenny Lewis
overlooking Regents Park
on a drowsy Wednesday when the day job holds fewer attractions
than ever cos I'm going for my weekly fix of clay play this evening,
yippeee.
PS: I thought about this before sending, so if anyone is annoyed -
(a) sorry, and (b) tough!
8-)
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