Cindy Strnad on tue 13 jun 00
Diane,
You can throw without kneading, but the clay as it comes from the bag will
always be cold and hard unless you warm it up. I don't know how you're going
to get your clay soft on an ongoing basis without hand kneading, or using a
pug mill. Maybe you don't need to shell out the extra bucks for a deairing
model. Lots of people have said they get very little air whether they use
their vacuum pumps or not.
Think of it this way. You have only one body, and if you end up having to
repair it, it's going to cost you a lot more than it would to just buy the
pug mill. And bodies aren't as easy to fix as we'd like them to be. As you
probably know, I have the vacuum deairing Peter Pugger, and I love it. It's
a very well-built, well-designed machine and worth every penny in increased
production and decreased wear on my elbows and wrists.
Cindy Strnad
earthenv@gwtc.net
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
Diane Woloshyn on tue 13 jun 00
Would like to know if a pugmill is my only answer to clay that doesn't have
to be kneaded. Because of physical problems that have gotten worse with age,
I can no longer effectively knead clay without paying a high price. My clay
suppliers do not have clay that is soft enough and I don't buy enough at one
time for them to do a special run just for me.
Only realized how much having soft clay helped after using the clay at the
Appalachian Center for the Crafts at Mel and Dannon's workshop. It was a
great one, sorry you all couldn't be there. Yes, Mel does tell as good a
story in person and Dannon is the consumate professional and a wonderful
teacher. There styles complement each other well. Joyce in the Mohave, I
wished you had been able to come. You are one person I really wanted to
meet.
Anyway, does anyone have any other suggestions.
Diane Florida Bird Lady
Jennifer Boyer on wed 14 jun 00
Hi Diane,
Do you know any high school kids who would like a job or
internship with a potter? I've had some really nice experiences
having kids come in to help me. Wedging is always one of their
tasks: as in _wedge me 20 2 pounders, please_ . sometimes this
has been in trade for studio time, sometimes a plain old paid
job, sometimes an internship where they get school credit
through their high school art dept . One young lady came in
twice a week after school for 2 hours. Amazing how much throwing
you can do when the wedged clay is just sitting there ready to
go!
Take Care
Jennifer
Cindy Strnad wrote:
>
> Diane,
>
> You can throw without kneading, but the clay as it comes from the bag will
> always be cold and hard unless you warm it up. I don't know how you're going
> to get your clay soft on an ongoing basis without hand kneading, or using a
> pug mill. Maybe you don't need to shell out the extra bucks for a deairing
> model. Lots of people have said they get very little air whether they use
> their vacuum pumps or not.
>
> Think of it this way. You have only one body, and if you end up having to
> repair it, it's going to cost you a lot more than it would to just buy the
> pug mill. And bodies aren't as easy to fix as we'd like them to be. As you
> probably know, I have the vacuum deairing Peter Pugger, and I love it. It's
> a very well-built, well-designed machine and worth every penny in increased
> production and decreased wear on my elbows and wrists.
>
> Cindy Strnad
> earthenv@gwtc.net
> Earthen Vessels Pottery
> RR 1, Box 51
> Custer, SD 57730
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer jboyer@adelphia.net
Thistle Hill Pottery
Vermont USA
http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/
Check out these sites about web hoaxes:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/culture/urbanlegends/mbody.htm
http://www.stiller.com/hoaxes.htm
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Millie Carpenter on wed 14 jun 00
Diane,
I think that the pug mill is one of the better solutions. when I did a cost benefit
on a pug mill ( can you tell my husband is a budget analyst?) I factored in things
like time spent wedging, time spent recovering from wedging, time spent at the
physical therapist because I already have left over problems from a set of
compressed disks, the money that I put into my bluebird deairling pug mill began to
seem much more reasonable. I usually mix 1/3 reclaim with 2/3 new. in order to
get the softer clay, I put the bagged block of clay into a large bucket and with a
pointed stick that I have, I make 5 holes all the way through the block and I pour
in about two cups of water, reseal the bag the next day I pour off any water that
wasn't absorbed, reseal and then pug it. also, I can control decide at the last
minute that I would rather do tall forms and pug dryer clay or at some extra
reclaim to soften yesterdays left overs.
Millie in Md. where it is chilly & damp. my son and I watched the slugs race
across the side walk tonight. Does anyone know if slugs have natural predators
besides people with salt shakers?
>
>
> __
CNW on wed 14 jun 00
Diane- Perhaps if you could find some one else that uses the same claybody,
you could get together on a special run of softer clay. Even if you are
fairly isolated see if your supplier might be able to hook you up with
someone that also likes a softer clay that you could just add your order to
theirs. (That's not very clear- But I used to have feed specially made for
the horses and I would sometimes try to order so that the mill could make my
order the same time they mixed a larger farm order, separate orders but one
mixing for them.)
Celia-totally confused, the more English classes I take, the more
belligerently illiterate I feel.
Dannon Rhudy on wed 14 jun 00
If the clay is from a supplier, it should not be necessary
to wedge it at all - it arrives de-aired, and people most
often put more air in than they get out. If you are talking
about recycling - then put it in a bucket/barrel to slake
into a thick slurry, pour the slurry out onto a large
canvas square, tie up the corners to make a "bag", tie
a line around the bag & hoist it over a limb or sturdy
beam. In a few days (pinch it often) it will be perfect
throwing consistency, and there will be no air in it, so
you won't have to wedge. You could also use plaster slabs
or containers to let it dry out, and use as above. Great
plastic clay. There's always more than one way, and low
tech is great for small studios.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
At 07:29 PM 6/13/00 EDT, you wrote:
>Would like to know if a pugmill is my only answer to clay that doesn't have
>to be kneaded. Because of physical problems that have gotten worse with age,
>I can no longer effectively knead clay without paying a high price. My clay
>suppliers do not have clay that is soft enough and I don't buy enough at one
>time for them to do a special run just for me.
>
>Only realized how much having soft clay helped after using the clay at the
>Appalachian Center for the Crafts at Mel and Dannon's workshop. It was a
>great one, sorry you all couldn't be there. Yes, Mel does tell as good a
>story in person and Dannon is the consumate professional and a wonderful
>teacher. There styles complement each other well. Joyce in the Mohave, I
>wished you had been able to come. You are one person I really wanted to
>meet.
>
>Anyway, does anyone have any other suggestions.
>
>Diane Florida Bird Lady
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Lee Love on thu 15 jun 00
----- Original Message -----
From: Dannon Rhudy
| If the clay is from a supplier, it should not be necessary
| to wedge it at all - it arrives de-aired, and people most
| often put more air in than they get out.
I think one of the reasons the potters seem to have less wrist and hand
problems here in Japan is because the clay is typically thrown softer here
(I think one of the reasons they seem to have fewer back problems is because
of the sitting arrangement and throwing off the hump is better posture wise.
I can throw all day at the Korean kickwheel and not feel it. It wasn't
the same at home.)
My clay from the clay suppliers back home is never as soft as I
would like it, but you hate paying money for more water. A pugmill
might be the way for Diane to go. Another way might be to have special
batches mixed up from her supplier, at the softness she requires.
At the workshop here, our bagged clay that the students use is
pretty stiff, but I mix it half&half with my reclaim and put it through the
pugmill twice. I keep a plastic bag on the ground next to my wheel to put
soft reclaim clay in. Makes it easy to take outside if I have to dry it a
bit and makes it easy to take over to the pugmill. Comes out at just
about the right consistency with this mixture. I then wedge into a
throwing hump. The foreman can tell if you haven't wedged it enough, even
when it is fresh off the pugmill. It behaves differently when you cone it
up. First time I got caught not wedging, the foreman did a demo at my
wheel. For weeks after that, when people visited the workshop (especially
foreigners) he would tell them that "Lee-san is having trouble with his
wedging." In Japanese, of course. :^)
--
Lee Love
Nanai , Mashiko-machi ,Tochigi-ken 321-4106 JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
Voice Mail and Faxes (a USA number): (303) 256-0374
Help E.T. Phone Earth: http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
rg42@BELLSOUTH.NET on thu 15 jun 00
Hello Diane,
I have talked to several people about using softer clay because of hand
and back problems. I have suggested they mix there clay as a slurry and
use a de-watering tray as described in Michael Cardew=92s book, =93Pionee=
r
Pottery=94 to extract the excess water. This process makes superior
quality clay with no air and the consistency is totally at your control.
The process is simple and uses no expensive equipment.
1. Make a clay slurry with plenty of excess water.
2. Allowed the slurry to settle for a few days.
3. Decant or siphon the excess water from the top of the clay.
4. When the clay is the consistency of soft cream cheese, placed it on a
de-watering tray
5. Check the clay on a regular basis.
6. Remove the clay from the tray just a little wetter than the clay you
use for throwing.
7. Form blocks of clay for storing. During the aging process the excess
water is used up.
I am starting a new studio and developing a new throwing body so my clay
production is small. I am using a 30-gallon plastic trashcan and garden
hoe to mix clays and grog. I have a brick tray 3bricks wide and 4 bricks
long. A tray that size produces 25lbs of clay a week. The tray is easy
to scale up to the size you need for your production.
If you are interested I can give more details of the trays. They are
just stacked brick, no mortar. I plan to make my final production tray
about 10ft long
If you need detailed information about this, let me know.
Richard Gilbert
Cherryville, North Carolina
BonitaCohn@AOL.COM on thu 15 jun 00
Not at all: When I have commercial bags of clay that get a little too hard, I
cut them up into 4-6 lengths, roll and wrap the pieces into a damp towel, put
back into the bag. Takes a day or so to soften up enough to use and not hurt.
I also take the ibuprofen BEFORE I go to the studio.
Bonita in San Francisco.
The Parrots just flew by! (9AM)
www.wildparrots.org
Ingeborg Foco on thu 15 jun 00
Bonita,
You don't even have to cut the clay up. Take an old bath towel soaked in
water and wrap it around a block of clay, put back in plastic and 24 hours
later you have workable clay. I'm talking about clay that is rock hard too.
Works like a charm.
Ingeborg
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 9:02 AM
Subject: Re: Is A Pugmill The Only Answer
> Not at all: When I have commercial bags of clay that get a little too
hard, I
> cut them up into 4-6 lengths, roll and wrap the pieces into a damp towel,
put
> back into the bag. Takes a day or so to soften up enough to use and not
hurt.
> I also take the ibuprofen BEFORE I go to the studio.
> Bonita in San Francisco.
> The Parrots just flew by! (9AM)
> www.wildparrots.org
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Marcia Selsor on fri 16 jun 00
When I was a potter in Cornwall, New York I had access to an abandoned
green house with tons of earthenware flower pots. To mix clay, I made a
slurry in a 30 gallon bucket. I lined the flower pots with cheese cloth
and filled them with slurry. I did this daily like brushing teeth before
starting at the wheel. It was great clay.
Marci in Montana
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/spain99.html
http://www.silverhawk.com/ex99/selsor/welcome.html
Martin Howard on fri 16 jun 00
Jennifer tells about using young helpers.
I also use them, when they come for a Birthday Pottery Party, especially the
boys.
After each has been on the wheel with me and before they go back to the main
table, coiling, making tiles, slab building etc, they fill a crock with
reclaim clay to dry.
That gets them clayed up to the elbows; really in touch with the material;
and saves my back a little.
It is also necessary to cause students to actually do some of the
preparation work; instead of having everything prepared and then cleaning up
after them. We can be too caring for our students and cause them to miss out
on the various routines before and after the joy of sitting at the wheel.
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
Martin Howard on fri 16 jun 00
A pugmill can also give the answer to the question:-
Now just where did that small tool, (that small piece of dowelling, that
special gauze end for the hand extruder) get to?
It got down the sink; into the reclaim container below; back into the slop
bucket; then into the dear pugmill.
Why has the pugmill got slower over the last few months? Same reason.
Open up the pugmill (Venco 3" de-airer in my case), undo the 11 bolts to
take off both top and bottom parts of the barrel;
slide off the U shaped place holder from the screen. Save the clay from the
main business screw drive.
There next to the screen are all those missing small pieces, plus all the
other hair, fluff and rubbish that went down the sink into the clay trap.
Wash the screen thoroughly and reassemble. Whilst we are about it, check the
oil. My pugmill has used no oil in either the pug part or the de-airing part
over six months. That's good.
Wow, I forgot how speedily the pugmill actually did the job. Can hardly keep
pace with it now at the input end.
So, if your pugmill is a little sluggish and you feel like turning back to
the hard slog of wedging and kneading, just open her up and see what is
there. We can all get constipated at times :-)
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
J102551@AOL.COM on fri 16 jun 00
One way of getting clay into working condition is to throw the whole bag in
the freezer. I discovered this by accident one winter. I left about 150 lb.
of way too dry and hard porcelain, in my little Toyota hatchback for about a
week. It didn't get above -10 degrees F that week. Best clay I ever threw.
Now I throw it in the freezer on purpose. Even if you can't get it to freeze
all the way throw the block, you can use all but the small chunk in the
center. Saves a LOT of work. Jeri
Shelley Corwin on fri 16 jun 00
i'd like more info on your stacked brick tray. thanks. s
Heidrun Schmid on fri 16 jun 00
This also works very well without any effort with abatch of 10 kg of clay in
plastic bag:
open the bag, losen the plastic around the clay, fill in not more than a cup of
water or just a medium sized sponge filled with water , depending on how dry the
clay is , close the bag tightly, then put that bag into a bucket, fill the bucket
up with water over the top of the claybag (make sure the bag is sealed without any
wholes for additional water to get in). Leave for a day . The pressure of the water
from the outside encourages the water inside the bag to move into the clay. My
friend used this method, she left the bag for 2 days and had the nicest workable
clay!
Heidrun in Bangkok
BonitaCohn@AOL.COM wrote:
> Not at all: When I have commercial bags of clay that get a little too hard, I
> cut them up into 4-6 lengths, roll and wrap the pieces into a damp towel, put
> back into the bag. Takes a day or so to soften up enough to use and not hurt.
> I also take the ibuprofen BEFORE I go to the studio.
> Bonita in San Francisco.
> The Parrots just flew by! (9AM)
> www.wildparrots.org
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
| |
|
