John Baymore on sat 15 jul 00
At this stage, I sometimes get lucky and end up with a nice flat rim and=
a
crisp but not sharp inner edge. But mostly not. I love this form. I love =
to
make it and feel it and look at it. I love to hold the little bowl in my
hands and feel the broad rim extend over top. That big wide rim looks
awfully inviting for all kinds of decoration. So, I come once again to a=
sk
for help with my throwing technique. How do I turn that rim out nice and
flat? (I do not want to add a slab of clay as demonstrated in the Robin
Hopper video.)
Carole,
=46rom the comment "......hold the little bowl in my hands and feel the b=
road
rim extend..." I get the feeling that the bowls you are describing are no=
t
as BIG as I was thinking at first. I've never seen the "Robin Hopper"
video....so I don't have the reference from that as to the scale of these=
wide rimmed bowls.
If they are really big bowls (18-20-24 inches dia) than there might be
certain approaches. I'll hold off on those thoughts.
If this smaller version is the case, when I "turn over" the flange on bow=
ls
or dinner plates and the like I use a technique that involves grasping th=
e
section of the vertical wall that is going to become the clay that will b=
e
the flange between the first and second fingers of the right hand (I thro=
w
counterclockwise). The second finger of the left hand is placed so that =
it
is touching the tip of the first finger of the right hand. The location =
of
the left hand finger is slightly offset below the right hand finger. The=
point that they touch sort of becomes the "pivot point" for the flip
outward. The right hand is rotated outward and downward to flip out the
flange. At the same time the two fingers of the right hand are squeezed
toward each other, squeezing the clay. And also at the same time pressur=
e
at the juncture of the flange and the bowl/plate wall is made by pressing=
the sort of triangulat juncture of the flange/wall with the second finger=
of the left hand which by then is pressing against the counter pressure o=
f
the tip of the second finger of the right hand. The little "space" forme=
d
by the tip of the second finger of the left hand and the first finger of
the right hand forms the defining "break" in the wall to flange transitio=
n.
The limit of the width of the flange formed is the length of the space
between the first two fingers of your right hand..... unless you do a
little more work on it after the fact.
I usually go back and use a light touch of a wood rib to enhanse the
crispness of this wall/rim transition....... and then sometimes a casual
fast swipe of a hand or rib to loosen it back up a little.
This is hard to describe verbally. And to work well it has to happen fas=
t.
Best thing I can recommend is to see if you can find someone who has see=
n
me demonstrate it. They might have pictures. Or just try to figure it o=
ut
from the lousy description and a bowl or 20 on the wheel .
Hope somehow this makes sense.
Best,
.......................john
John Baymore
River Bend Pottery
22 Riverbend Way
Wilton, NH 03086 USA
603-654-2752 (s)
800-900-1110 (s)
JBaymore@compuserve.com
John.Baymore@GSD-CO.com
"Earth, Water, and Fire Noborigama Woodfiring Workshop August 18-27,
2000"
Martin Howard on sun 16 jul 00
I so often wonder WHY create wide rimmed bowls?
What is the reason for them?
Surely platters are much more sensible, and they can stack as well.
Perhaps someone on the list will explain the reason to me,
then I might extend my repertoire.
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
rickmahaffey on sun 16 jul 00
Hello Clayarters,
I always ask my students if they notice the the price of the meal is directly
proportional to the size of the wide rim and inversely proportional to the size of
the dished area (Or inversely proportional ot the size of the portion,
necessitating the large rim to make a regular sized dinner plate). I learned that
Fred Olsen calls his plates and bowls with wide flat rims his "Deluxe" line. So I
demonstrate Standard and Deluxe plates and bowls.
Rick Mahaffey
Tacoma, Washington, USA
Martin Howard on sun 16 jul 00
Perhaps what has initiated my questioning of our reason for creating wide
rimmed bowls is that, in my area, there is a craze for food to be served in
them.
The wide rims are then decorated with various coloured spices, which I would
much rather have on the pasta. Then have a larger bowl, without a rim, to
contain more pasta.
They seem to be used for pure decoration. The value of decoration is in the
eye of the beholder? Nil value to me! The bowls are just white with these
silly streamers of spices.
The first thing I do is scrape up the spices together and put them where
they should be; on the food.
Perhaps I am just too logical!
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
Frank Gaydos on sun 16 jul 00
Martin,
When I saw the Picasso Exhibit in NYC last year I was struck by how many
wide rimmed bowls were in the exhibit. I thought at the time they were a
reflection of the region he was working in. They were very ostentatious,
looking very much being there just for the decoration.
I took some pictures of Italian Majolica while at the Metropolitan Museum
which also have very wide rims compared to their container size.Again, they
look very garish compared to their function. For a look go to :
http://home.earthlink.net/~fgaydos/Met.html
Wide rimmed bowls might just be a great excuse to decorate, function be
dammed.
Personally, I like the idea and hope to have some wide rimmers in the near
future. :>)
----- Original Message -----
Subject: Re: Wide rimmed bowls
> I so often wonder WHY create wide rimmed bowls?
> What is the reason for them?
> Surely platters are much more sensible, and they can stack as well.
> Perhaps someone on the list will explain the reason to me,
> then I might extend my repertoire.
>
> Martin Howard
Mayssan1@AOL.COM on sun 16 jul 00
Martin;
Being fond of food and a good cook, (nooo I'm not cocky), also fond of how
the food is presented. I think wide rimmed bowl are incomparable for serving
pasta, just imagine, delicious linguini Alfredo in a colorfully decorated
wide rim bowl.
or a big colorful salad in a simpler light colored one. Oh what a feast, I'm
making my own mouth water . Just what I use them for.
Enjoy
Mayssan
Richard Jeffery on sun 16 jul 00
decorative? [i.e. non-functional?]
Richard Jeffery
www.TheEleventhHour.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Martin Howard
Sent: 16 July 2000 09:05
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Wide rimmed bowls
I so often wonder WHY create wide rimmed bowls?
What is the reason for them?
Surely platters are much more sensible, and they can stack as well.
Perhaps someone on the list will explain the reason to me,
then I might extend my repertoire.
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
____________________________________________________________________________
__
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NLudd@AOL.COM on sun 16 jul 00
Hi Martin
It's the poetry in the pottery, IMHO.
I'll make a wide rim bowl for the aesthetic/sensual effect unachievable with=
=20
a smaller rim. This is purely subjective - I find that a wider rim really=20
transforms the quality/timbre/magic of the space inside the bowl, raising it=
s=20
bowl-power, so to speak.=20
cheers,
Ned
=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=
=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97=97
Martin Howard wrote
>I so often wonder WHY create wide rimmed bowls?
>What is the reason for them?
>Surely platters are much more sensible, and they can stack as well.
>Perhaps someone on the list will explain the reason to me,
>then I might extend my repertoire.
Cyberpotter@AOL.COM on sun 16 jul 00
In a message dated 7/16/00 10:17:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
martin@WEBBSCOTTAGE.CO.UK writes:
<< WHY create wide rimmed bowls? >>
Because we CAN!
Nancy Chestnut
(who made her first wide rimmed bowls and double walled bowls in the past
month)
Penny Hosler on sun 16 jul 00
< I so often wonder WHY create wide rimmed bowls?
What is the reason for them?>
Cuz they're pretty and give you a place to put your garlic bread.
Although upside down in my lap always works for me.......
Penny in WA
Vicki Katz on sun 16 jul 00
the wide rim provides a hand hold which is not as severly effected by the hot
content, making it easier to secure.
I am not good at "art-talk" - but I am paying attention ...
Cyberpotter@AOL.COM on sun 16 jul 00
In a message dated 7/16/00 8:33:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
VandRKatz@AOL.COM writes:
<< the wide rim provides a hand hold which is not as severly effected by the
hot
content, making it easier to secure. >>
Well there ya go. A purely functional reason. Now we can all go make them
without feeling ostentatious.
Cyberpotter@AOL.COM on mon 17 jul 00
In a message dated 7/17/00 3:12:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, normv@OCEANA.NET
writes:
<< Hard to drink out of a wide-rimmed bowl. :o) >>
Good point! Perhaps calling for a slight redesign... wide rimmed bowls with
integrated slurpy spouts?
pedresel on mon 17 jul 00
Well Martin, I don't think anyone ever accused Brits of knowing what to
do with spices :-). Only kidding, I have had some of the finest meals
of my life in England. (Wonderful thing about having an empire, eh?)
We have the same thing here. I figure it's a way of disguising the fact
that those fancy places are using the cheapest restaurant china around.
Too bad.
-- Evan in W. Richland WA where the most interesting cuisine is from
the taco wagons. Love those tortas.
Veena Raghavan on mon 17 jul 00
Hi Martin,
Although several practical reasons have been posted, could it not
just be for the sake of beauty, the great look the form has? Personally, I
had not even thought of any practical reasons, I just like wide-rimmed
bowls. Try some and let us know how you feel about them (G).
All the best.
Veena
Davesglaze@AOL.COM on mon 17 jul 00
Wide rimmed bowls sell better than my plates, shallow bowls sell better than
flat plates, so if the market demand calls for, thats good enough reason for
me.
Norman van der Sluys on mon 17 jul 00
Hard to drink out of a wide-rimmed bowl. :o)
Mayssan1@AOL.COM wrote:
> Martin;
> Being fond of food and a good cook, (nooo I'm not cocky), also fond of how
> the food is presented. I think wide rimmed bowl are incomparable for serving
> pasta, just imagine, delicious linguini Alfredo in a colorfully decorated
> wide rim bowl.
> or a big colorful salad in a simpler light colored one. Oh what a feast, I'm
> making my own mouth water . Just what I use them for.
> Enjoy
> Mayssan
--
Norman van der Sluys
by the shore of Lake Michigan
Millie Carpenter on mon 17 jul 00
the wide rim bowls are better if you make a meal of a salad. that way the salad
can be turned in the bowl to spread the salad dressing without the salad escaping
across the table.
Millie in Md-where the thunder storms are awesome these days.
Pancioli on mon 17 jul 00
Aren't the wide rims for catching the soup when you drip?
Diana
ginny bivaletz on tue 18 jul 00
hi lee, can't quite picture that curve, could you
please explain further? thanks ginnyB from orcas
island, washington
--- Lee Love wrote:
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Millie Carpenter
>
> > the wide rim bowls are better if you make a meal
> of a salad. that way the
> salad
> > can be turned in the bowl to spread the salad
> dressing without the salad
> escaping
> > across the table.
>
> My Japanese style noodle bowls work this way
> too, except instead of a
> wide rim, you have a graceful curve made by the wall
> of the bowl. The bowl
> is large enough to hold a normal helping of salad
> with room to spare for
> tossing.
>
> --
> Lee Love
> Nanai , Mashiko-machi ,Tochigi-ken 321-4106
> JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
> Voice Mail and Faxes (a USA number): (303) 256-0374
> Help E.T. Phone Earth:
> http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
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> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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Gayle Bair on tue 18 jul 00
Penny,
You are absolutely right. Perhaps we
can come up with at totally new bowl
that will make us millions.
A lap bowl! What do you think????
A lap platter? catches crumbs, dribbles,
and other errant food particles.
Forget those unsanitary napkins that fall
on the floor.
No? Ok we'll attach a napkin ring on the side.
Just think next time you are wrestling with that
lobster, steak or side of beef and a succulent
piece falls into your lap you can just empty
your lap plate/bowl back onto your dish.
We can call them eco friendly
"Save-your-pants-ware"
The possibilities are endless. We'll be rich!
We will all bring our Winnebago's to Mels and party!
Gayle Bair- can you tell I have family visiting for the next 2 weeks??
>snip
Cuz they're pretty and give you a place to put your garlic bread.
Although upside down in my lap always works for me.......
Penny in WA
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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Lee Love on tue 18 jul 00
----- Original Message -----
From: Millie Carpenter
> the wide rim bowls are better if you make a meal of a salad. that way the
salad
> can be turned in the bowl to spread the salad dressing without the salad
escaping
> across the table.
My Japanese style noodle bowls work this way too, except instead of a
wide rim, you have a graceful curve made by the wall of the bowl. The bowl
is large enough to hold a normal helping of salad with room to spare for
tossing.
--
Lee Love
Nanai , Mashiko-machi ,Tochigi-ken 321-4106 JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
Voice Mail and Faxes (a USA number): (303) 256-0374
Help E.T. Phone Earth: http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/
Des Howard on tue 18 jul 00
As kids, Christmas dinner pudding would be served in the usual
wide rimmed bowls, hidden in the pud were small silver coins,
the lucky finders would array their gains around the rim.
We would also use the rims to place pits found in stewed fruit desserts,
also suspicious items found in stews & soups.
Kids aren't big on manners, I guess that's why they can have more fun than adults.
Des
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
LUE NSW 2850
Australia
Ph/Fax 02 6373 6419
iandol on wed 19 jul 00
I suspect these are going to evolve into Mortaria. Radius the flange up, =
over and down then pull a spout.
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia, where we were treated to a =
wonderous eclipse of the Moon. Obviously glazed with Shino.
Linda Christen on wed 19 jul 00
Wide rimmed bowls vs. deep or high rimmed plates.
This is interesting.
It reminds me of when I was first learning to throw a plate. I had trouble
making them large enough for dinner plates so I kept ending up with
"luncheon" plates.
I was also worried about the rim dropping during the firing so I would
bring the rim up high. This made the plate rather deep.
These seconds ended up in my kitchen cabinet and are to this day my
husbands favorite plates! In fact I got rid of them in our move a couple
weeks ago and now he is complaining about missing all of my seconds... he
is actually bugging me to intentionally make more of them...
Linda
At 11:08 AM 7/17/00 -0400, you wrote:
>Wide rimmed bowls sell better than my plates, shallow bowls sell better than
>flat plates, so if the market demand calls for, thats good enough reason for
>me.
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Veena Raghavan on sun 23 jul 00
Message text written by Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>
This is hard to describe verbally. And to work well it has to happen fast.
Best thing I can recommend is to see if you can find someone who has seen
me demonstrate it. They might have pictures. Or just try to figure it out
from the lousy description and a bowl or 20 on the wheel .
<
John,
Loved you description, sounds great. I am about to go back to the
wheel part-time, just having moved and not having been able to touch clay
for weeks. First thing I will try is your way of wide rimmed bowls. I
usually do it in a similar way or with a rib, but this sounds much much
better. Think you should do a video of all the techniques you use, like
Nils Lou did. It would be of benefit to a great many people.
All the best.
Veena
Veena Raghavan
75124.2520@compuserve.com
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