Philip Poburka on fri 1 sep 00
Hello Jim, and too, Hello to All -
Well...if you wish to Turn a variety of work , as 'Chessmen' and 'Bowls'
(and perhaps things in-between), then any sturdy well designed general
purpose Wood-Lathe of approx three to four foot Way, would suffice quite
well. If 'only' Chessmen, than a smaller Spindle Lathe would likely do, if
'only' Bowls, a Bowl-Lathe!
The 'learning Curve' I expect would be some co-efficient of
'presence-of-mind', affection for the task, and practice.
Tho' having I think less 'variables' than Pottery, Turning has
it's own varied and sundry things...
Initial discoveries should inspire further appreciations/aspirations, or
not, and thus do it go...
Neck ties ought to be tucked into ones shirt, covered by a work apron, or
removed. Long hair also should be safely tucked up, or braided, and held
back.
Machines: Cast Iron, American, and pre-War being about the best I know of.
Ball or Roller Bearings are easily replaced and readily available if or when
needed. Babbitt Bearings are excellent if you know - or care to learn - how
to care for them, and or repair or renew them.
Most Machines were well designed and well made, by people who knew what they
were doing, at a time when this sort of Machine was still liable to be
looked at by people who might take it seriously. They have Oil-Cups, grease
cups, or Alemite fittings for the Bearings, accept Standard Morse Taper
Centers, and they look good as well. Those which have seperate Motors are
simpler to repair or maintain than those with peculiar or proprietary
'built-in' or 'direct-drive' Motors.
Certainly the 'revival' in Woodworking spurred a demand for Bowl-Lathes, and
general purpose Lathes - some of them are probably pretty good, tho' I
havent really kept track of 'em.
I have seen various modern Machines which 'come' from China.
It is not allways obvious to an untrained eye, and too, the Chinese
now-a-days are pleased to put any label a middleman will pay for on the
product, the label might say made in Germany, France, Italy or U.S.A.
Sometimes some of these Tools or Machines seem to 'hold-up', and many do
not. I would not buy anything like this.
The Lathe upon which I have turned certainly many thousands of spindles and
other forms is a 'Walker Turner' from the mid 'thirties. I bought it used in
l977 and it is as snug and happy now as it was then. It will hold a three
foot spindle, and
remains in fine condition. Has grease cups for the bearings, and
is of a pleasing form. It will be as solid honest and happy a Hundred years
from now as it has been all along.
I know many people who buy new machines, and have troubles with 'sealed'
bearings, with inferior design, poor engineering,careless or indifferent
metalurgy...most modern Machines are not as 'good' as their ancestors, nor
is the 'marketplace' as descerning as it once was, so crappy or poor
products get rewarded, and nobody seems to notice.
'Progress'.
Special Lathes are made for the Turning of large Bowls(and other medium to
heavy Faceplate work,) tho' having no Ways or Tailstock, they would be
poorly suited for the likes of 'chessmen', and they cannot hold Spindles.
There are -were- big faceplate Lathes for Turning Elipses and
eccentrics...Lathes for Turning Rifle Stocks, etc.
Metal Spinning Lathes for hand forming sheetmetal into elements of Coffee
Pots, lamps etc., this being done over Maple (or other) 'forms' turned first
by 'hand'...
'Chessmen' are/were traditionally turned spindle fashion (and more often
than not, from branches of the Boxwood Tree)and for a long time, chiefly on
'Spring-Pole' or 'treadle' lathes, which were Foot Powered.
They CAN be turned on a Faceplate ( or faceplate-of-sorts, more like a 'nub'
) where the Faceplate is really a 'center' - with a sharply threaded, stubby
Screw, set in a flat collar, and the short(impending)Chessman 'Blank' is
blind-drilled and then threaded on to that, tho' that is a poor way to do
Chessmen, it is sometimes a good way to do other things...
The two main 'types' of Turning being: 'Spindle' Turning, where the Work is
supported by the quills of the Head-Stock and of the Tail-Stock, and a Tool
rest is situated on the 'ways' between them, and...
'Face-plate' Turning, where the Work is supported only on or by the
Faceplate which attaches (usually 'threads-on') to the Quill of the
Head-stock. The 'Quill', -also often called a 'Spindle'(!)- is the central
rotating element (in the Headstock) which revolves the Work.
Ummm...a 'picture' or diagram WOULD be handy!
The 'Ways' are the Lathe BED, the dominant horizontal element.
The Headstock is usually heavily Bolted to the Ways, and recieves rotation
from a Motor or Jackshaft via a belt. The Headstock Quill extends out of
both sides of the Headstock, is usually hollow, and usually has Threads on
the ends of it's outer surface..
The inboard side being threaded in a 'right-hand' fashion, and the outboard
side being threaded in a 'left-hand' fashion. This way, a face plate will
not unscrew while the work is revolved in a norman way. The Tailstock can be
located along-the-ways as may suit the length of spindle-turning Work, and
has usually a blind, hollow-ended quill which accepts various 'Centers' -
the quill of the Headstock accepting Centers as well.
The 'hollow' portions of both are, for a few inches distance, usually
'tapered' in a specific way, as the 'centers' are usually ground to a No. 1,
2 or 3 'Morse-Taper' - thus centers from Metal turning Lathes, 'Jacob'
Chucks adapted to No.1,2 or 3 Drill Presses and the like,( from various
Machine Shop Tooling,) are interchangeable, and readily obtained.
On a Spindle Lathe (posessing both the Head Stock and Tail Stock,) faceplate
turnings may be made 'inboard'; that is, above the Ways, to approximately
the diameter of that alloted space - some Lathes having a lowered portion in
the Ways just in front of the Headstock to allow a little extra room for
this. The vertical distance from the center of the Quill to the horizontal
plane of the Ways being spoken of as the 'Throw'.
The Head, Tail Stock and Tool-Rest can be 'blocked-up' to make a larger
'throw' than anticipated by the design of the Lathe itself, thus allowing
larger inboard faceplate Turnings,
(or 'heftier' spindles ) to be Turned.
'Outboard' faceplate Turnings are revolved on the left, as it were, of the
Headstock, and oweing to the absence of Ways, the Turnings may be made to
almost any Diameter you like, up to that of the distance from the center of
the Quill to the floor. The Tool-Rest for this kind of work being a seperate
stand, which is placed as need be.
The requisite Skill for Turning at least somewhat resolves upon the use of
two kinds of 'Chisels': Those which are used to 'Scrape',and those which are
used to 'Cut'. Also, of sharpening them so they will 'Scrape' or 'Cut'
nicely.
Lathe 'Chisels' are distinguished from other kinds of Chisels, by the
absence of a 'boss' where the Chisel fits into the handle. As Lathe chisels
are not expected to be struck, they have at their tail end, a 'tang' just as
a file or a rasp will have. In fact many Turners used to make, or adapt some
of their Chisels from Files. I have done this, and it is a good thing to do.
'Scrapers' are Chisels which have a quite shallow bevel or relief - maybe 10
to 15 degrees - it is variable , tho' called 'Scrapers' they actually cut,
but not in the same way as cutting'Chisels'. Cutting Chisels have a bevel of
25 to maybe 40 degrees, and actually 'cut' ribbons at times,'slice' one
might say, and hence leave a nice surface behind them.Cutting Chisels
require a bit more co-ordination and practice than do Scrapers.
Most Faceplate Turnings are made, or are 'finished-up' by Scraping. Spindles
may also be made entirely by Scrapeing, tho' usually one prefers to 'Cut'.
Cutting produces (or can) a smooth almost 'finished' surface, wich requires
little or no sanding. Oweing to the rapid reversal of grain in the majority
of Faceplate turnings, it is difficult to avoid 'tear-out', where grain
transitions and chisel meet at high speed. Hence,even if mostly got out by
Cutting, they are finished-up by Scrapeing.
More where that came from if anyone is a wantin'-
Philip
in Las Vegas
where, since last week I'm tasting Autumn in the air,and like a Horse that
smells the Barn...not much wanting to be
out workin' in the fields now...just wanting to go THERE!
------Original Message------
From: Jim Bozeman
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: August 29, 2000 12:00:32 AM GMT
Subject: clay wheel vs wood lathe
Hi all, I have unexpectedly come into some money ( UPS destroyed my shipment
and they are paying up!) and I'm thinking of buying a wood lathe because
wood turning is something I've always wanted to learn. Especially when I saw
the prices that wooden bowls bring in galleries! To me, it's like making a
bowl in reverse (from pottery that is). Taking away wood instead of pulling
up clay. The concepts seem the same to me and I'm thinking that the learning
curve wouldn't be that steep since I already have throwing skills. Has
anyone on this list ever turned on a lathe? Is it difficult to acquire
enough skill to turn a thin bowl! I also thought it might be a cool idea to
turn some chess men! Any thoughts are appreciated! Jim in Athens, GA
_________________________________________________________________________
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______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on fri 1 sep 00
Hi lathe people--
When I first started working with wood, I decided the thing I most wanted to
learn was the lathe. I didn't realize that it is in so many ways similar to
working on the wheel! Especially when I tried to make 4 of the same turned
legs for the stool I was making! I had the same trouble making those legs
(I never actually did it!) that I had with making my first matching set of
mugs! I didn't make the stool, which was a reproduction of a medieval
stool, but I did learn to work on a lathe with various kinds of wood. My
stool was made with oak, which is a very open grained wood---and not that
easy to turn when you don't have superb and sharp tools.
The kind of wood you use determines how you work on the lathe. Open grained
wood like oak, rips and tears very easily on the lathe. Maple, a tight
grained wood, doesn't require as much of a special touch. Using a lathe
can be as intriguing as using a wheel...but the feel of clay----nothing can
beat it.
Sandy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Philip Poburka [SMTP:pdp1@EARTHLINK.NET]
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 1:54 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Something on Wood Lathes: Reply - ramble...
>
> Hello Jim, and too, Hello to All -
>
> Well...if you wish to Turn a variety of work , as 'Chessmen' and 'Bowls'
> (and perhaps things in-between), then any sturdy well designed general
> purpose Wood-Lathe of approx three to four foot Way, would suffice quite
> well. If 'only' Chessmen, than a smaller Spindle Lathe would likely do, if
> 'only' Bowls, a Bowl-Lathe!
>
> The 'learning Curve' I expect would be some co-efficient of
> 'presence-of-mind', affection for the task, and practice.
>
> Tho' having I think less 'variables' than Pottery, Turning has
> it's own varied and sundry things...
>
> Initial discoveries should inspire further appreciations/aspirations, or
> not, and thus do it go...
>
> Neck ties ought to be tucked into ones shirt, covered by a work apron, or
> removed. Long hair also should be safely tucked up, or braided, and held
> back.
>
> Machines: Cast Iron, American, and pre-War being about the best I know of.
> Ball or Roller Bearings are easily replaced and readily available if or
> when
> needed. Babbitt Bearings are excellent if you know - or care to learn -
> how
> to care for them, and or repair or renew them.
>
> Most Machines were well designed and well made, by people who knew what
> they
> were doing, at a time when this sort of Machine was still liable to be
> looked at by people who might take it seriously. They have Oil-Cups,
> grease
> cups, or Alemite fittings for the Bearings, accept Standard Morse Taper
> Centers, and they look good as well. Those which have seperate Motors are
> simpler to repair or maintain than those with peculiar or proprietary
> 'built-in' or 'direct-drive' Motors.
>
> Certainly the 'revival' in Woodworking spurred a demand for Bowl-Lathes,
> and
> general purpose Lathes - some of them are probably pretty good, tho' I
> havent really kept track of 'em.
>
> I have seen various modern Machines which 'come' from China.
> It is not allways obvious to an untrained eye, and too, the Chinese
> now-a-days are pleased to put any label a middleman will pay for on the
> product, the label might say made in Germany, France, Italy or U.S.A.
> Sometimes some of these Tools or Machines seem to 'hold-up', and many do
> not. I would not buy anything like this.
>
> The Lathe upon which I have turned certainly many thousands of spindles
> and
> other forms is a 'Walker Turner' from the mid 'thirties. I bought it used
> in
> l977 and it is as snug and happy now as it was then. It will hold a three
> foot spindle, and
> remains in fine condition. Has grease cups for the bearings, and
> is of a pleasing form. It will be as solid honest and happy a Hundred
> years
> from now as it has been all along.
>
> I know many people who buy new machines, and have troubles with 'sealed'
> bearings, with inferior design, poor engineering,careless or indifferent
> metalurgy...most modern Machines are not as 'good' as their ancestors, nor
> is the 'marketplace' as descerning as it once was, so crappy or poor
> products get rewarded, and nobody seems to notice.
> 'Progress'.
>
>
> Special Lathes are made for the Turning of large Bowls(and other medium to
> heavy Faceplate work,) tho' having no Ways or Tailstock, they would be
> poorly suited for the likes of 'chessmen', and they cannot hold Spindles.
> There are -were- big faceplate Lathes for Turning Elipses and
> eccentrics...Lathes for Turning Rifle Stocks, etc.
> Metal Spinning Lathes for hand forming sheetmetal into elements of Coffee
> Pots, lamps etc., this being done over Maple (or other) 'forms' turned
> first
> by 'hand'...
>
> 'Chessmen' are/were traditionally turned spindle fashion (and more often
> than not, from branches of the Boxwood Tree)and for a long time, chiefly
> on
> 'Spring-Pole' or 'treadle' lathes, which were Foot Powered.
> They CAN be turned on a Faceplate ( or faceplate-of-sorts, more like a
> 'nub'
> ) where the Faceplate is really a 'center' - with a sharply threaded,
> stubby
> Screw, set in a flat collar, and the short(impending)Chessman 'Blank' is
> blind-drilled and then threaded on to that, tho' that is a poor way to do
> Chessmen, it is sometimes a good way to do other things...
>
> The two main 'types' of Turning being: 'Spindle' Turning, where the Work
> is
> supported by the quills of the Head-Stock and of the Tail-Stock, and a
> Tool
> rest is situated on the 'ways' between them, and...
>
> 'Face-plate' Turning, where the Work is supported only on or by the
> Faceplate which attaches (usually 'threads-on') to the Quill of the
> Head-stock. The 'Quill', -also often called a 'Spindle'(!)- is the central
> rotating element (in the Headstock) which revolves the Work.
>
> Ummm...a 'picture' or diagram WOULD be handy!
>
> The 'Ways' are the Lathe BED, the dominant horizontal element.
> The Headstock is usually heavily Bolted to the Ways, and recieves rotation
> from a Motor or Jackshaft via a belt. The Headstock Quill extends out of
> both sides of the Headstock, is usually hollow, and usually has Threads on
> the ends of it's outer surface..
>
> The inboard side being threaded in a 'right-hand' fashion, and the
> outboard
> side being threaded in a 'left-hand' fashion. This way, a face plate will
> not unscrew while the work is revolved in a norman way. The Tailstock can
> be
> located along-the-ways as may suit the length of spindle-turning Work, and
> has usually a blind, hollow-ended quill which accepts various 'Centers' -
> the quill of the Headstock accepting Centers as well.
>
> The 'hollow' portions of both are, for a few inches distance, usually
> 'tapered' in a specific way, as the 'centers' are usually ground to a No.
> 1,
> 2 or 3 'Morse-Taper' - thus centers from Metal turning Lathes, 'Jacob'
> Chucks adapted to No.1,2 or 3 Drill Presses and the like,( from various
> Machine Shop Tooling,) are interchangeable, and readily obtained.
>
> On a Spindle Lathe (posessing both the Head Stock and Tail Stock,)
> faceplate
> turnings may be made 'inboard'; that is, above the Ways, to approximately
> the diameter of that alloted space - some Lathes having a lowered portion
> in
> the Ways just in front of the Headstock to allow a little extra room for
> this. The vertical distance from the center of the Quill to the horizontal
> plane of the Ways being spoken of as the 'Throw'.
>
> The Head, Tail Stock and Tool-Rest can be 'blocked-up' to make a larger
> 'throw' than anticipated by the design of the Lathe itself, thus allowing
> larger inboard faceplate Turnings,
> (or 'heftier' spindles ) to be Turned.
>
> 'Outboard' faceplate Turnings are revolved on the left, as it were, of the
> Headstock, and oweing to the absence of Ways, the Turnings may be made to
> almost any Diameter you like, up to that of the distance from the center
> of
> the Quill to the floor. The Tool-Rest for this kind of work being a
> seperate
> stand, which is placed as need be.
>
> The requisite Skill for Turning at least somewhat resolves upon the use of
> two kinds of 'Chisels': Those which are used to 'Scrape',and those which
> are
> used to 'Cut'. Also, of sharpening them so they will 'Scrape' or 'Cut'
> nicely.
>
> Lathe 'Chisels' are distinguished from other kinds of Chisels, by the
> absence of a 'boss' where the Chisel fits into the handle. As Lathe
> chisels
> are not expected to be struck, they have at their tail end, a 'tang' just
> as
> a file or a rasp will have. In fact many Turners used to make, or adapt
> some
> of their Chisels from Files. I have done this, and it is a good thing to
> do.
>
> 'Scrapers' are Chisels which have a quite shallow bevel or relief - maybe
> 10
> to 15 degrees - it is variable , tho' called 'Scrapers' they actually cut,
> but not in the same way as cutting'Chisels'. Cutting Chisels have a bevel
> of
> 25 to maybe 40 degrees, and actually 'cut' ribbons at times,'slice' one
> might say, and hence leave a nice surface behind them.Cutting Chisels
> require a bit more co-ordination and practice than do Scrapers.
>
> Most Faceplate Turnings are made, or are 'finished-up' by Scraping.
> Spindles
> may also be made entirely by Scrapeing, tho' usually one prefers to 'Cut'.
>
> Cutting produces (or can) a smooth almost 'finished' surface, wich
> requires
> little or no sanding. Oweing to the rapid reversal of grain in the
> majority
> of Faceplate turnings, it is difficult to avoid 'tear-out', where grain
> transitions and chisel meet at high speed. Hence,even if mostly got out by
> Cutting, they are finished-up by Scrapeing.
>
>
>
> More where that came from if anyone is a wantin'-
>
> Philip
> in Las Vegas
> where, since last week I'm tasting Autumn in the air,and like a Horse that
> smells the Barn...not much wanting to be
> out workin' in the fields now...just wanting to go THERE!
>
>
>
>
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: Jim Bozeman
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Sent: August 29, 2000 12:00:32 AM GMT
> Subject: clay wheel vs wood lathe
>
>
> Hi all, I have unexpectedly come into some money ( UPS destroyed my
> shipment
> and they are paying up!) and I'm thinking of buying a wood lathe because
> wood turning is something I've always wanted to learn. Especially when I
> saw
> the prices that wooden bowls bring in galleries! To me, it's like making a
> bowl in reverse (from pottery that is). Taking away wood instead of
> pulling
> up clay. The concepts seem the same to me and I'm thinking that the
> learning
> curve wouldn't be that steep since I already have throwing skills. Has
> anyone on this list ever turned on a lathe? Is it difficult to acquire
> enough skill to turn a thin bowl! I also thought it might be a cool idea
> to
> turn some chess men! Any thoughts are appreciated! Jim in Athens, GA
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> ____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> ____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
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