mel jacobson on fri 8 sep 00
several things to be noted:
you should first get a piece of glass for a welders
helmet.
run duct tape around it for safety, and use that to view cones.
you should be able to see them well. eye protection is vital
when looking in bright kilns. check at any welding outlet...they
sell the glass in a number of darkness'
some folks use an old hair dryer to blow in the port....it does
work.
the blowing in may cause burned lips...back flashes are normal.
i would always be chasing kids away from spy holes.
if nothing else, wear a good pair of dark sun glasses.
mel
47 degrees this morning in god's country.
sumacs are turning red. ash trees are losing their first leaves.
minnesota....it is a nice place to live.
FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
Linda Mosley on wed 16 jan 02
Hi. To see cones at the end of a reduction firing,
definitely wear goggles to protect from UV radiation -
and cut back on the back pressure for a minute. Empty
space behind the cones also helps. Also, for a quick
check, I blow into the spy hole to clear the back
pressure. Take a big breath, put you lips together,
and blowwww, then look asap.
- Linda
=====
Linda Mosley
lindamosley@yahoo.com
ceramic instructor, St. Louis Community College - FV
__________________________________________________
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Earl Brunner on sun 26 sep 04
The theory might be true, but we are talking about repeatable results, if
you fire pretty much the same way all of the time, and blow about the same
amount of air into the kiln, you should be fairly consistent. But easy to
verify, simply place some other cones near the ones you will be blowing on.
Close enough hat they should reflect accurately the heat work in the area,
but protected from your blowing. Then compare them after the firing. Do
this a couple of times and you will know. You could do the same for the
idea of painting a small strip of oxide on the edge of the cone, two sets,
side by side one with oxide one without. Forget the speculation, just do it
and see. End of story.
As for Vince's concern about blowing dust into the kiln and onto the ware,
clean the peep hole BEFORE the firing, I don't grind my plugs into the kin
door each time......
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Ivor and Olive
Lewis
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2004 8:59 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Specturm Glaze@Cone 6 Report
Dear Ron Roy,
It is my understanding (from memory, based on a report by Tim
Fredrich) that chilling cones to view them was not a good thing to do.
It delays or retards the setting rate of the cone so the rest of the
interior of the kiln, the furniture and the load tends to become
heated to excess.
In essence, work will be overfired when the cone sets.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Ivor and Olive Lewis on mon 27 sep 04
Dear Earl,
I will not argue with your logic or your conclusions.
I just wonder if there is ever any excuse for ignoring information
from what was a reliable source.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Earl Brunner on tue 28 sep 04
Why? What did I say? But my answer to what ever would be, If your personal
experience says different, I'd go with the personal experience.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Ivor and Olive
Lewis
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2004 10:51 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: seeing cones
Dear Earl,
I will not argue with your logic or your conclusions.
I just wonder if there is ever any excuse for ignoring information
from what was a reliable source.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis.
Redhill,
S. Australia.
Carol Tripp on thu 23 jun 05
I solved my 'can't see the cones' problem in the following way;
I set the three self-supporting Orton cones up in a straight line leading
back into the kiln from the peep hole. Since I fire to ^6, the cone nearest
the hole is ^5 and I set it so that when it melts, it will bend to the
right. The next cone is ^6 and set to melt to the left and the last is ^7,
and it faces to melt to the right if things go on too long. When I am
loading the kiln, I set up the cone lines and then check through the peep
holes that they are visibly in a straight line going back into the kiln.
(Visually it looks like this - ^5 hides all but the tip of ^6 and ^7 is
pretty well hidden from view.) The consistancy of placement and melt
direction makes distinguishing what is going on during the fire easy.
I hope this is clear. Works for me.
Best regards,
Carol
Dubai, UAE
_________________________________________________________________
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mel jacobson on sun 3 jul 05
remember, Edouard Bastarache is one of our
great friends and works very hard for us on
clayart.
he is not the kind that just wants answers.
i agree with tony however, many just want
quick and easy answers....kurt and mel have
written and published the plans for the small
flat top because kurt was going broke sending
30 pages of plans to folks...his dime...xerox
plans etc. and of course, often would not
hear from the receiver...not even a thank you.
without question we have been thrilled with
the response to those plans. a couple of thousand
have printed them, and thousands have looked at them.
so, almost better than publishing them in a mag.
it is still the biggest hit on the ceramics. org website.
we are contemplating having the plans for the wood
kiln done in cad. (computer aided drafting) but that
is down the track....and we need more ideas from donovan
as to publishing rights etc. (perhaps claytimes) that kiln still has some
tweaking
to be done. we are far from saying....`it is a gem`.
close...but not yet. he may open the chimney a bit...maybe
to 14 inches...raise it a bit. do some work on the fire box...
perhaps a brick grate. but that will come later in the summer.
it is donovan's call.
from mel/minnetonka.mn.usa
website: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
D. Kim Lindaberry on thu 7 jul 05
Hello All - I have been wondering if using a laser pointer might work
to help see the cones? I thought about it before but the last time I
was firing a kiln the battery was dead in my pointer. I won't be
firing again for another month or so to experiment with it so if
anyone gives it a try before I can I'd like to know the results. - Kim
Arnold Howard on fri 8 jul 05
From: "D. Kim Lindaberry"
> Hello All - I have been wondering if using a laser pointer might work
> to help see the cones?
I've looked into a peephole at cone 10 with the aid of a high-intensity
light. It didn't help. The kiln interior was brighter than the light source,
and I had difficulty aiming the light into the peephole while peering
in--even with the aid of a mirror.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Steve Slatin on fri 8 jul 05
Kim --
I'm a person with can't-see-cone syndrome, and I tried
using both bright-blue LED and red laser pointers.
Neither seemed to do much; whatever causes my
cone-blindness (it comes on at about 2000 F, according
to my pyrometer) seems to hold on regardless of my
efforts.
Usual cautions -- remember the shiny jacket of a kiln
can reflect a laser; keep eye protection on, and keep
your hair away from the kiln -- it goes up fast, and
smells just awful.
Best wishes -- Steve S
--- "D. Kim Lindaberry" wrote:
> Hello All - I have been wondering if using a laser
> pointer might work
> to help see the cones? I thought about it before but
> the last time I
> was firing a kiln the battery was dead in my
> pointer. I won't be
> firing again for another month or so to experiment
> with it so if
> anyone gives it a try before I can I'd like to know
> the results. - Kim
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Steve Slatin --
Frail my heart apart and play me little Shady Grove
Ring the bells of Rhymney till they ring inside my head forever
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions – no fees. Bid on great items.
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Elaine Birk on fri 8 jul 05
As far as seeing cones in a reduction firing, I went to a Coleman/Geil
workshop and Tom Coleman demonstrated using an air hose to blow a weak blast
of air into the peep hole to clearly see the cones. I have used it myself
since then and it does work, it clears up the atmosphere around the cones
and makes them easy to view.
Elaine Birk
Virgina Beach
--- "D. Kim Lindaberry" wrote:
> Hello All - I have been wondering if using a laser
> pointer might work
> to help see the cones? I thought about it before but
> the last time I
> was firing a kiln the battery was dead in my
> pointer. I won't be
> firing again for another month or so to experiment
> with it so if
> anyone gives it a try before I can I'd like to know
> the results. - Kim
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Steve Slatin --
Frail my heart apart and play me little Shady Grove
Ring the bells of Rhymney till they ring inside my head forever
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions – no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Frank Colson on fri 8 jul 05
I can't believe how anyone gets so hung-up on gimmicks; i.e. pyrometers,
laser beams, air hoses, etc. to recognize a kiln temperature level, when
learning how to look at the heat color can provide that information, within
50 degrees, irregardless of having cones or not!
What in the world would one do in the Outback without a compass? My my!
Frank Colson
For a free temperature chart, go to: www.R2D2u.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Slatin"
To:
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: seeing cones
> Kim --
>
> I'm a person with can't-see-cone syndrome, and I tried
> using both bright-blue LED and red laser pointers.
> Neither seemed to do much; whatever causes my
> cone-blindness (it comes on at about 2000 F, according
> to my pyrometer) seems to hold on regardless of my
> efforts.
>
> Usual cautions -- remember the shiny jacket of a kiln
> can reflect a laser; keep eye protection on, and keep
> your hair away from the kiln -- it goes up fast, and
> smells just awful.
>
> Best wishes -- Steve S
>
> --- "D. Kim Lindaberry" wrote:
>
> > Hello All - I have been wondering if using a laser
> > pointer might work
> > to help see the cones? I thought about it before but
> > the last time I
> > was firing a kiln the battery was dead in my
> > pointer. I won't be
> > firing again for another month or so to experiment
> > with it so if
> > anyone gives it a try before I can I'd like to know
> > the results. - Kim
> >
> >
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change
> > your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> > reached at melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
>
> Steve Slatin --
>
> Frail my heart apart and play me little Shady Grove
> Ring the bells of Rhymney till they ring inside my head forever
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - no fees. Bid on great items.
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on fri 8 jul 05
Hello Frank,
I used to pull that trick and bet money on it to read the inside
temperature of kilns in steel plants.
My margin of error was also about 50 degrees F.
"I can't believe how anyone gets so hung-up on gimmicks; i.e. pyrometers,
laser beams, air hoses, etc. to recognize a kiln temperature level, when
learning how to look at the heat color can provide that information, within
50 degrees, irregardless of having cones or not!"
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces quebecois"
"They are insane these quebekers"
"Están locos estos quebequeses"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.digitalfire.com/education/toxicity/
Pam Cresswell on fri 8 jul 05
I do not think all of us can see that heat color, probably the same folks
that cannot see the cones well :-) Like myself! I have tried seeing the
color differences, but I so far cannot.
Pam
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Frank Colson
Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 6:43 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: seeing cones
I can't believe how anyone gets so hung-up on gimmicks; i.e. pyrometers,
laser beams, air hoses, etc. to recognize a kiln temperature level, when
learning how to look at the heat color can provide that information, within
50 degrees, irregardless of having cones or not!
Steve Slatin on fri 8 jul 05
Frank --
I accept the validity of some of this -- surely a
lesser quantity of equipment of lesser complexity is
inherently a more reliable, stable design basis.
And there are temperature differences I can spot
pretty easily. I can 'see' the difference in the
color of the kiln when it's just approaching 06 vs.
when it's comfortably at 04 (two appearances I have
experience with because I've fired bisque to these
levels). What seems to be the case, though, is at the
levels where my glaze firing is, I have the high
temperature equivalent of snow blindness -- everything
is a flat, white glow from roughly 2000 F up (say cone
1 more or less through maybe cone 8, as high as I've
ever gone with my kiln).
I think Mel had the simple, levelheaded solution here
-- to get an assistant for firing who can see what
eludes me, and tell me when I'm where I belong.
Lacking that, what I do is keep good records and time
my firings and use pyrometers and a computer
controller with witness cones inside the kiln to let
me know when the thermocouples are 'drifting'. It's
not as simple or as technically sweet as being able to
just look at a kiln and know if it's right, but it
gets me highly repeatable results. And that, after
all, is what I'm after.
Best wishes -- Steve Slatin
--- Frank Colson wrote:
> I can't believe how anyone gets so hung-up on
> gimmicks; i.e. pyrometers,
> laser beams, air hoses, etc. to recognize a kiln
> temperature level, when
> learning how to look at the heat color can provide
> that information, within
> 50 degrees, irregardless of having cones or not!
Steve Slatin --
Frail my heart apart and play me little Shady Grove
Ring the bells of Rhymney till they ring inside my head forever
____________________________________________________
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions – no fees. Bid on great items.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
D. Kim Lindaberry on fri 8 jul 05
Frank,
I think its pretty ironic that someone that writes and sells E-Books
would talk down to people who use "gimmicks".
Kim
On Jul 8, 2005, at 6:43 PM, Frank Colson wrote:
> I can't believe how anyone gets so hung-up on gimmicks; i.e.
> pyrometers,
> laser beams, air hoses, etc. to recognize a kiln temperature level,
> when
> learning how to look at the heat color can provide that
> information, within
> 50 degrees, irregardless of having cones or not!
>
>
> What in the world would one do in the Outback without a compass?
> My my!
>
> Frank Colson
> For a free temperature chart, go to: www.R2D2u.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Slatin"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:37 PM
> Subject: Re: seeing cones
>
>
>
>> Kim --
>>
>> I'm a person with can't-see-cone syndrome, and I tried
>> using both bright-blue LED and red laser pointers.
>> Neither seemed to do much; whatever causes my
>> cone-blindness (it comes on at about 2000 F, according
>> to my pyrometer) seems to hold on regardless of my
>> efforts.
>>
>> Usual cautions -- remember the shiny jacket of a kiln
>> can reflect a laser; keep eye protection on, and keep
>> your hair away from the kiln -- it goes up fast, and
>> smells just awful.
>>
>> Best wishes -- Steve S
>>
>> --- "D. Kim Lindaberry" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Hello All - I have been wondering if using a laser
>>> pointer might work
>>> to help see the cones? I thought about it before but
>>> the last time I
>>> was firing a kiln the battery was dead in my
>>> pointer. I won't be
>>> firing again for another month or so to experiment
>>> with it so if
>>> anyone gives it a try before I can I'd like to know
>>> the results. - Kim
Maurice Weitman on sat 9 jul 05
At 7:43 PM -0400 on 7/8/05, Frank Colson wrote:
>I can't believe how anyone gets so hung-up on gimmicks; i.e. pyrometers,
>laser beams, air hoses, etc. to recognize a kiln temperature level, when
>learning how to look at the heat color can provide that information, within
>50 degrees, irregardless of having cones or not!
>[...]
>For a free temperature chart [...]
Aside from the difference between measuring a=20
kiln's temperature and the amount of heat work a=20
kiln load has experienced, might there be valid=20
reasons why ceramists would actually prefer using=20
cones (a gimmick in use over 100 years) rather=20
than Mr. Colson's free (and worth every penny, no=20
doubt) temperature chart, irregardless of the=20
richness of his attitude?
On the chance that the difficulty some of us have=20
seeing cones at high heat might be caused by some=20
degree of color-blindness or other vision defect,=20
how the hell would using a color chart where=20
there's a 200=BA F. difference between "lemon" and=20
"lt. yellow" work?
Yet I am very happy for our esteemed Monsieur=20
Bastarache and continue to be impressed by his=20
skills and knowledge, in this case in=20
supplementing his income by estimating kiln temps=20
by color. Imagine, Edouard, how successful you=20
could be with the aid of some gizmos thrown your=20
way.
Regards,
Maurice, from sunny, breezy, summery Fairfax,=20
California, where I got to watch a Red-winged=20
Blackbird driving a Red-tailed Hawk (20 times its=20
weight!) from its nest area by swooping down on=20
it from behind, latching onto its back, and=20
pecking the bejabbers out of the hawk's head. He=20
did this four or five times until the hawk flew=20
far enough away from the nest to calm the little=20
bugger.
Jennifer Boyer on sat 9 jul 05
Well, since 50 degrees represents almost a 2 cone difference at the
peak of a cone 10 firing, I'll stick with the cones... Sorry for the
need for precision. ;-)
Jennifer
On Jul 8, 2005, at 10:26 PM, D. Kim Lindaberry wrote:
> Frank,
>
> I think its pretty ironic that someone that writes and sells E-Books
> would talk down to people who use "gimmicks".
>
> Kim
>
>
> On Jul 8, 2005, at 6:43 PM, Frank Colson wrote:
>
>> I can't believe how anyone gets so hung-up on gimmicks; i.e.
>> pyrometers,
>> laser beams, air hoses, etc. to recognize a kiln temperature level,
>> when
>> learning how to look at the heat color can provide that
>> information, within
>> 50 degrees, irregardless of having cones or not!
>>
>>
>> What in the world would one do in the Outback without a compass?
>> My my!
>>
>> Frank Colson
>> For a free temperature chart, go to: www.R2D2u.com
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Steve Slatin"
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, July 08, 2005 2:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: seeing cones
>>
>>
>>
>>> Kim --
>>>
>>> I'm a person with can't-see-cone syndrome, and I tried
>>> using both bright-blue LED and red laser pointers.
>>> Neither seemed to do much; whatever causes my
>>> cone-blindness (it comes on at about 2000 F, according
>>> to my pyrometer) seems to hold on regardless of my
>>> efforts.
>>>
>>> Usual cautions -- remember the shiny jacket of a kiln
>>> can reflect a laser; keep eye protection on, and keep
>>> your hair away from the kiln -- it goes up fast, and
>>> smells just awful.
>>>
>>> Best wishes -- Steve S
>>>
>>> --- "D. Kim Lindaberry" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hello All - I have been wondering if using a laser
>>>> pointer might work
>>>> to help see the cones? I thought about it before but
>>>> the last time I
>>>> was firing a kiln the battery was dead in my
>>>> pointer. I won't be
>>>> firing again for another month or so to experiment
>>>> with it so if
>>>> anyone gives it a try before I can I'd like to know
>>>> the results. - Kim
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on sat 9 jul 05
Maurice,
"Yet I am very happy for our esteemed Monsieur
Bastarache and continue to be impressed by his
skills and knowledge, in this case in
supplementing his income by estimating kiln temps
by color. Imagine, Edouard, how successful you
could be with the aid of some gizmos thrown your
way."
I am always ready to bet against a union representative
(Hehehehehe) in the region of Quebec with the stongest
unions, good way to impress them and set the pace
of our discussions. (Neat trick)
Later,
"Ils sont fous ces quebecois"
"They are insane these quebekers"
"Están locos estos quebequeses"
Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Indomitable Quebeker
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.digitalfire.com/education/toxicity/
Bob Santerre on sat 9 jul 05
Feel a need to comment on this. I've tried about every technique ever
suggested on this list for viewing cones. The one that works very well
for me is shining a bright flashlight (hi-intensity, sharply focussed
Mag lite) into the spy port. I hold the flashlight about 12-15" away
from the spy port opening. Using didium-coated glasses and this light I
can easily see my cones at cone 10-11 heat, they appear like bright
white shimmering ghosts standing in the middle of an inferno, kind of
magical. I set my cone pack about 6-8 inches back from the spy port
(1.75" id). Because of cone positioning and problems focusing the light
through the narrow spy tube (while still being able to see through it)
sometimes I may only view the top 2/3s of the cone, but that's enough to
make a call. This is the ONLY technique that really works for me.
Bob
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Arnold Howard wrote:
> From: "D. Kim Lindaberry"
>
>> Hello All - I have been wondering if using a laser pointer might work
>> to help see the cones?
>
>
> I've looked into a peephole at cone 10 with the aid of a high-intensity
> light. It didn't help. The kiln interior was brighter than the light
> source,
> and I had difficulty aiming the light into the peephole while peering
> in--even with the aid of a mirror.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Arnold Howard
> Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
> ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
Earl Brunner on sat 9 jul 05
Isn't the big problem with seeing cones primarily the atmosphere in a fuel
burning kiln? In my gas kiln I can usually see the bottom cones just fine,
and the atmosphere is more neutral to oxidizing down there, really hard to
get an even reduction in the bottom front of the down draft Geil that I have
(not that being a Geil has anything to do with it, I have had the same
problem with other downdrafts). However in the top of the kiln the
atmosphere is thicker and those particles at the high end of a firing
fluoresce (or what ever you call it) and seem to almost cloud the viewing
area.
In other words, WHY is it hard to see the cones may be a better question?
Sometimes backing off the reduction seems to clear the atmosphere for me and
helps me see things a bit better.
Earl Brunner
Las Vegas, NV
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of Maurice Weitman
Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2005 12:38 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: seeing cones
At 7:43 PM -0400 on 7/8/05, Frank Colson wrote:
>I can't believe how anyone gets so hung-up on gimmicks; i.e. pyrometers,
>laser beams, air hoses, etc. to recognize a kiln temperature level, when
>learning how to look at the heat color can provide that information, within
>50 degrees, irregardless of having cones or not!
>[...]
>For a free temperature chart [...]
Aside from the difference between measuring a
kiln's temperature and the amount of heat work a
kiln load has experienced, might there be valid
reasons why ceramists would actually prefer using
cones (a gimmick in use over 100 years) rather
than Mr. Colson's free (and worth every penny, no
doubt) temperature chart, irregardless of the
richness of his attitude?
Kathy Forer on sat 11 nov 06
On Nov 11, 2006, at 9:24 PM, Edouard Bastarache Inc. wrote:
> if you have blue eyes, use glasses tinted brown.
Would that also be blue glasses for brown eyes?
Does eye color really make that much of a difference, refraction and
absorption, or what?
> Wear medium light tinted glasses at the beginning
> of the firing, then switch to medium tinted ones
> till
> the end. I use colored safety glasses to protect
> my
> eyes from small pieces of soft bricks that fly out
> starting from the walls of the peep holes.
>
> Plus, use a poweful flaslight that you aim at the
> cones,
> move your head or the flashlight sideways and, you
> should see the damn cones.
A flashlight -- that gave me a slam me on the upside my head kind of
moment. Of course!
Thank you!
Kathy Forer
www.foreverink.com
John Rodgers on sat 11 nov 06
Kathy,
I second Edouard B's post. The proper lenses are important - but you
cannot do with out that blasted flashlight.
Try a Maglite - it is a good quality "focusing beam" light so you can
get the most light on the cones.
Good luck.
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Kathy Forer wrote:
> My eyes already have one small 'floater' and would prefer not to
> tempt any others. What is the best way to see those darn cones?!
>
> I've tried a couple things so far -- the three cone pack just behind
> the spyhole, in front of a flat thing, and further away across a
> blank expanse; using a camera lens; and welding goggles -- and none
> worked.
>
> I can't see anything with the dark welding goggles I already own and
> that makes me question, before I go shopping, which of the various
> tints of glass, -- blue, green, purple -- works best for seeing
> cones in a kiln in a protective way. I also tried seeing the cones
> through various colored films but they were all too dark.
>
> If get two polar responses I'll just have to finish reading the NY
> Times ThursdayStyles section on wrinkle adversaries, the war of the
> injectables. Then go and build a simple masonite cleat system with pins.
>
> Kathy Forer
> www.foreverink.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
>
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
Kathy Forer on sat 11 nov 06
My eyes already have one small 'floater' and would prefer not to
tempt any others. What is the best way to see those darn cones?!
I've tried a couple things so far -- the three cone pack just behind
the spyhole, in front of a flat thing, and further away across a
blank expanse; using a camera lens; and welding goggles -- and none
worked.
I can't see anything with the dark welding goggles I already own and
that makes me question, before I go shopping, which of the various
tints of glass, -- blue, green, purple -- works best for seeing
cones in a kiln in a protective way. I also tried seeing the cones
through various colored films but they were all too dark.
If get two polar responses I'll just have to finish reading the NY
Times ThursdayStyles section on wrinkle adversaries, the war of the
injectables. Then go and build a simple masonite cleat system with pins.
Kathy Forer
www.foreverink.com
Edouard Bastarache Inc. on sat 11 nov 06
Hello,
if you have blue eyes, use glasses tinted brown.
Wear medium light tinted glasses at the beginning
of the firing, then switch to medium tinted ones
till
the end. I use colored safety glasses to protect
my
eyes from small pieces of soft bricks that fly out
starting from the walls of the peep holes.
Plus, use a poweful flaslight that you aim at the
cones,
move your head or the flashlight sideways and, you
should see the damn cones.
Later,
Edouard Bastarache
Le Français Volant
The Flying Frenchman
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/Welcome.html
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
http://www.pshcanada.com/Toxicology.htm
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
www.thepottersshop.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kathy Forer"
To:
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2006 8:25 PM
Subject: seeing cones
> My eyes already have one small 'floater' and
> would prefer not to
> tempt any others. What is the best way to see
> those darn cones?!
>
> I've tried a couple things so far -- the three
> cone pack just behind
> the spyhole, in front of a flat thing, and
> further away across a
> blank expanse; using a camera lens; and welding
> goggles -- and none
> worked.
>
> I can't see anything with the dark welding
> goggles I already own and
> that makes me question, before I go shopping,
> which of the various
> tints of glass, -- blue, green, purple -- works
> best for seeing
> cones in a kiln in a protective way. I also
> tried seeing the cones
> through various colored films but they were all
> too dark.
>
> If get two polar responses I'll just have to
> finish reading the NY
> Times ThursdayStyles section on wrinkle
> adversaries, the war of the
> injectables. Then go and build a simple masonite
> cleat system with pins.
>
> Kathy Forer
> www.foreverink.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or
> change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Snail Scott on sun 12 nov 06
At 08:25 PM 11/11/2006 -0500, Kathy F wrote:
>My eyes already have one small 'floater' and would prefer not to
>tempt any others. What is the best way to see those darn cones?!
You said you'd tried welding goggles, but
implied they were too dark. If that's the
case, try a #3-#5 darkness range. You can get
just the tinted glass panel for a few bucks;
no need to spring for the full goggles. A
strong flashlight can be a useful supplement.
(Never needed it myself, but some folks like
them.)
If even that doesn't do it, one way that
always seems to work is to blow air into
the peephole, onto a cone pack that's not
too far inside. You can't do this too often
before you risk making the cones inaccurate,
but a few times won't do much harm. Keep
your peephole and shelf very clean, or you
can blow dust and crumbs onto your glaze.
-Snail
Arnold Howard on mon 13 nov 06
From: "Kathy Forer"
> My eyes already have one small 'floater' and would prefer
> not to
> tempt any others. What is the best way to see those darn
> cones?
I've looked into the peepholes of kilns while wearing
didymium, green #3, 4, 5, and welding goggles. From my
experience, green #3 is as good as didymium at reducing
glare at cone 10. Green #3 also filters infrared. You should
be able to find green firing safety glasses from a pottery
supplier.
I haven't had success with seeing cones using a flashlight
and mirror. At cone 10, the flashlight beam disappears.
Here is my recommendation for seeing the witness cones:
1) Place the cones 8" - 12" away from a peephole.
Positioning them closer makes them difficult to see,
especially after they bend.
2) Position cones so that when viewed from the peephole,
they are silhouetted by an element on the opposite kiln
wall. (Keep cones at least 2" from an element.)
3) The element that silhouettes the cones should be level
with the lower part of the cone. If the element is in line
with the upper part of the cone, you won't be able to see
the cone when it bends.
4) If you use the three-cone system, always have the higher
temperature cone on the same side in every firing. Otherwise
you can lose track of which cone is which.
5) Wear firing safety glasses when viewing the cones through
the peephole.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Kathy Forer on mon 13 nov 06
I'm not sure what I can add other than I started the thread and am
grateful for the wonderful answers and suggestions.
All this talk that web 3.0*, nipping at the heels of web 2.0, will be
a "Web Guided by Common Sense," it still comes down to what we put
out there. There's individual knowledge and experience and this
wonderful new say of extending learning through shared virtual
experience.
My Paragon A28B3 has only three spy holes, the middle with a thermo-
coupled digital pyrometer and the bottom where you have to put your
head below your knees to see anything which means that you tilt your
head and anything you manage to see is sideways. The top is more
accessible but doesn't leave much room for error. I'm hoping the
multi-peepholed k-model L&L that I still need to rewire gives me
better ability to seeing inside but for now I'm more happy to see
underwater, or on a clear day forever, than through fire or earth-
like things.
Kathy
* http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/12/business/12web.html
Hilary Kerrod on tue 14 nov 06
Kathy wrote:
"On Nov 11, 2006, at 9:24 PM, Edouard Bastarache Inc. wrote:
> if you have blue eyes, use glasses tinted brown.
Would that also be blue glasses for brown eyes?
Does eye color really make that much of a difference, refraction and
absorption, or what?"
When I got my last glasses (at local optometry school) the head guy told me
the lighter your eye colour, the more sensitive to strong light and to
damage from same.
Hilary Kerrod in New Zealand
Deborah Thuman on wed 23 feb 11
Jim has a pair of goggles used for welding. Perfect for seeing cones.
I, too, just see a mass of red..... and then on go the goggles and I
can se individual cones. I'm using a fully manual gas kiln and without
the cones, I'd never know when to start reduction.
Deb Thuman
http://debthumansblog.blogspot.com/
http://www.etsy.com/shop.php?user_id=3D5888059
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Deb-Thumans-Art-Page/167529715986
John Britt on wed 23 feb 11
Another great way to see in kilns is to get a 1,000,000 lumen (or somethi=
=3D
ng=3D20
monster like that) flashlight from Home Depot/or Lowes and then you can j=
=3D
ust=3D20
shine it in and see the cones like it was daytime! You still need eye pr=
=3D
otections=3D20
but it makes it easy!
www.johnbrittpottery.com
WJ Seidl on wed 23 feb 11
Ace Hardware had a nice (small) rechargeable one on sale last month for $10=
.
I believe the brand was "Peak". (The Prestone Antifreeze people.)
We bought one for each car, another for each ATV, and one for the tractor.
With one, I can spot a moose at 600 yards. Should be relatively easy to
see cones.
Best,
Wayne Seidl
On 2/23/2011 1:58 PM, John Britt wrote:
> Another great way to see in kilns is to get a 1,000,000 lumen (or somethi=
ng
> monster like that) flashlight from Home Depot/or Lowes and then you can j=
ust
> shine it in and see the cones like it was daytime! You still need eye pr=
otections
> but it makes it easy!
>
> www.johnbrittpottery.com
>
>
Arnold Howard on thu 24 feb 11
On 2/23/2011 4:42 PM, Mike wrote:
> The didymium glasses sold by Marc Ward, or other suppliers, work wonders
> for seeing in a white hot kiln, and protect your eyes from harmful
> radiation.
---------
I have tested didymium glasses, various shades of green glasses,
welder's goggles, and a welder's face mask to view the firing chamber of
electric kilns. I prefer green #3 safety glasses. I believe they filter
the ultra-violet and infra-red better than the didymium.
I have not yet succeeded in using a high-powered light to view witness
cones.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P., Mesquite, Texas USA
ahoward@paragonweb.com / www.paragonweb.com
Dan Pfeiffer on thu 24 feb 11
This only works if you have a large spy hole. on smaller kilns there is no
room to see the cones and get a light in.
Dan & Laurel.
>>>>Ace Hardware had a nice (small) rechargeable one on sale last month for
$10.
I believe the brand was "Peak". (The Prestone Antifreeze people.)
We bought one for each car, another for each ATV, and one for the tractor.
With one, I can spot a moose at 600 yards. Should be relatively easy to
see cones.
Wayne Seidl
>>>>
WJ Seidl on thu 24 feb 11
Then too, there is that. Some of the cheaper lights just don't hold up.
Tired of garbage imported flashlights that don't last?
Want to harness the sun instead, as Eve did?
Try this! You'll be SURE to see those cones!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DTtzRAjW6KO0
(insert evil laughter)
Best,
Wayne Seidl
On 2/24/2011 6:13 PM, Eva Gallagher wrote:
> Yes I was amazed how well those 1 million watts flashlights work -
> though I bought a cheapie and it only worked for a few times. However
> one year during a March firing the sun was at just the right angle
> that it shone directly into the spy hole of the gas kiln and
> beautifully illuminated the cones. It was just as if they were in
> ordinary daylight. Unfortunately the next time I looked 10 minutes or
> so later to see if cone 11 had started to bend the sun angle had
> changed and I could not see anything. It is truly amazing how bright
> the sun is. Maybe I could reflect sunlight into the spy hole with a
> mirror?
> Eva Gallagher Deep River, Ontario.
> http://newfoundoutpotter.blogspot.com/
> http://www.valleyartisans.com/gallagher/Gallagher.htm
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "WJ Seidl"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 9:00 PM
> Subject: Re: Seeing cones
>
>
>> Ace Hardware had a nice (small) rechargeable one on sale last month
>> for $10.
>> I believe the brand was "Peak". (The Prestone Antifreeze people.)
>> We bought one for each car, another for each ATV, and one for the
>> tractor.
>> With one, I can spot a moose at 600 yards. Should be relatively easy to
>> see cones.
>>
>> Best,
>> Wayne Seidl
>>
>>
>
>
>
Eva Gallagher on thu 24 feb 11
Yes I was amazed how well those 1 million watts flashlights work - though I
bought a cheapie and it only worked for a few times. However one year durin=
g
a March firing the sun was at just the right angle that it shone directly
into the spy hole of the gas kiln and beautifully illuminated the cones. It
was just as if they were in ordinary daylight. Unfortunately the next time =
I
looked 10 minutes or so later to see if cone 11 had started to bend the sun
angle had changed and I could not see anything. It is truly amazing how
bright the sun is. Maybe I could reflect sunlight into the spy hole with a
mirror?
Eva Gallagher Deep River, Ontario.
http://newfoundoutpotter.blogspot.com/
http://www.valleyartisans.com/gallagher/Gallagher.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "WJ Seidl"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: Seeing cones
> Ace Hardware had a nice (small) rechargeable one on sale last month for
> $10.
> I believe the brand was "Peak". (The Prestone Antifreeze people.)
> We bought one for each car, another for each ATV, and one for the tractor=
.
> With one, I can spot a moose at 600 yards. Should be relatively easy to
> see cones.
>
> Best,
> Wayne Seidl
>
>
Mike on thu 24 feb 11
The didymium glasses sold by Marc Ward, or other suppliers, work wonders
for seeing in a white hot kiln, and protect your eyes from harmful
radiation.
Mike
in Taku, Japan
http://karatsupots.com
http://karatsupots.blogspot.com
Workshop in Taku, Spring 2012: To Be Announced
(2011/02/24 3:58), John Britt wrote:
> Another great way to see in kilns is to get a 1,000,000 lumen (or somethi=
ng
> monster like that) flashlight from Home Depot/or Lowes and then you can j=
ust
> shine it in and see the cones like it was daytime! You still need eye pr=
otections
> but it makes it easy!
>
> www.johnbrittpottery.com
>
Mike on fri 25 feb 11
Yes, you can do that, it works! We did that with the wood kiln, used a
10" mirror to reflect the light into the kiln in order to see the shine
on the pots. You could see the ash land on the surface of the pot and
melt into it. Then it got cloudy and no more sunlight.
Mike
in Taku, Japan
http://karatsupots.com
http://karatsupots.blogspot.com
Workshop in Taku, Spring 2012: To Be Announced
> bright the sun is. Maybe I could reflect sunlight into the spy hole
> with a
> mirror?
> Eva Gallagher Deep River, Ontario.
>
Bonnie Staffel on fri 9 dec 11
I used to paint the edge of the cones facing the peep hole with a thin coat
of iron oxide which during the high firing could easily be seen. Some
potters use welding glass to look through which blocks out some of the reds
and yellow of the flame.
Bonnie
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
Steve Mills on fri 9 dec 11
I use Gas Welder's goggles as well as a cool draught.=3D20
I like David Woof's idea of using a hair drier -- got one of those -- safer=
t=3D
oo!
Steve M
Sent from my iPod
On 9 Dec 2011, at 12:09, Bonnie Staffel wrote:
> I used to paint the edge of the cones facing the peep hole with a thin co=
a=3D
t
> of iron oxide which during the high firing could easily be seen. Some
> potters use welding glass to look through which blocks out some of the re=
d=3D
s
> and yellow of the flame.
>=3D20
> Bonnie
>=3D20
> http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
> http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
> DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
> DVD Introduction to Wheel Work
> Charter Member Potters Council
jonathan byler on fri 9 dec 11
you should always use welding glasses or the equivalent. otherwise
you are going to get cataracts. maybe you will get them anyway, but
why risk it? the last thing I want is to have someone cutting on my
eye.
lots of UV/IR rays coming at you once you get up to a certain
temperature (can't remember what the critical point is) anyway, when
it's glowing orange or brighter, wear your specs!
On Dec 9, 2011, at 6:09 AM, Bonnie Staffel wrote:
> I used to paint the edge of the cones facing the peep hole with a
> thin coat
> of iron oxide which during the high firing could easily be seen. Some
> potters use welding glass to look through which blocks out some of
> the reds
> and yellow of the flame.
>
> Bonnie
>
> http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
> http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
> DVD Throwing with Coils and Slabs
> DVD Introduction to Wheel Work
> Charter Member Potters Council
Dan Pfeiffer on sun 1 jan 12
Try using a baster tube to blow a thin stream of air in at the cones. If yo=
u
don't know what this is think turkey. A glass one is a better idea than
plastic.
>>>>>Lately I've been having major problems viewing my top set of cones in
my HF 24 Alpine updraft kiln, does anyone have any tricks to overcome this
problem.
<<<<<
Dan & Laurel
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