chrisclarke on sun 10 sep 00
Ann
As long as you remember how to put it back on, but I don't think it would have
helped me unless I could have stood on it :) chris
What part of California?
Ann Brink wrote:
> Pam and Chris,
> I plan to replace all the elements in my 1027 next week, so this a
> timely thread for me. I am certainly hoping to not have this problem!
>
> I am planning to remove the lid and at least the top section, so as to be
> able to reach the bottom. If someone has any reason why this is a bad idea,
> please tell me now! TIA
>
> Ann Brink in CA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> From: "chrisclarke"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 8:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Floppy Element Question
>
> > Pam,
> > I also just replaced my elements in my skutt1027. Did you buy pins?
> I bought
> > U pins, not just the little pieces of wire they use when they build the
> kiln. I
> > haven't have any elements move a bit. If you want I can look for where I
> got
> > them. Now that you've fired though, you stand a greater risk of breaking
> the
> > elements when you push them back.
> > chris
> > By the way,
> > Did you have to hang upside down to do the bottom ones? I have to
> stand on a
> > stool to load my kiln (I'm 5foot and a quarter inch).
> >
> > pam pulley wrote:
> >
> > > About 4 months ago we changed elements in our Skutt 1027 and the oval
> > > Olympic. Now the elements are starting to pop out. Lost some pots
> because
> > > of elements laying across bisque ware during firing. We we careful to
> not
> > > stretch, fold, spindle or mutilate the elements. Use bent pins to hold
> them
> > > in. Bought the elements from the kiln company. Even checked with Skutt
> to
> > > see how they recommend the replacing of the elements. Did everything
> the
> > > way we it's been said to do.
> > >
> > > So with all the knowledge out there in this group, what is it we missed
> or
> > > what is there we can do now and next time to keep those elemnts from
> > > traveling during firing? Any tips and tricks?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pam (a humid, rainy day in Michigan)
> > >
> _________________________________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> http://www.hotmail.com.
> > >
> > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> > > http://profiles.msn.com.
> > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Brunner on sun 10 sep 00
I took the two in the art center apart all the way down to
the floor (floor of the kiln).
I put the parts up on a table where I could work on them in
a semi decent posture.
I flipped the floor over on one, getting the appearance of a
new floor on the inside. On the other I took a crumbly
brick from the top edge and traded it for one on the center
ring. It is now down where it won't get messed with and I
have a new brick on the top edge. No problems just put all
the pieces parts back where they go and don't have any left
over parts.
Ann Brink wrote:
>
> Pam and Chris,
> I plan to replace all the elements in my 1027 next week, so this a
> timely thread for me. I am certainly hoping to not have this problem!
>
> I am planning to remove the lid and at least the top section, so as to be
> able to reach the bottom. If someone has any reason why this is a bad idea,
> please tell me now! TIA
>
> Ann Brink in CA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> From: "chrisclarke"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 8:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Floppy Element Question
>
> > Pam,
> > I also just replaced my elements in my skutt1027. Did you buy pins?
> I bought
> > U pins, not just the little pieces of wire they use when they build the
> kiln. I
> > haven't have any elements move a bit. If you want I can look for where I
> got
> > them. Now that you've fired though, you stand a greater risk of breaking
> the
> > elements when you push them back.
> > chris
> > By the way,
> > Did you have to hang upside down to do the bottom ones? I have to
> stand on a
> > stool to load my kiln (I'm 5foot and a quarter inch).
> >
> > pam pulley wrote:
> >
> > > About 4 months ago we changed elements in our Skutt 1027 and the oval
> > > Olympic. Now the elements are starting to pop out. Lost some pots
> because
> > > of elements laying across bisque ware during firing. We we careful to
> not
> > > stretch, fold, spindle or mutilate the elements. Use bent pins to hold
> them
> > > in. Bought the elements from the kiln company. Even checked with Skutt
> to
> > > see how they recommend the replacing of the elements. Did everything
> the
> > > way we it's been said to do.
> > >
> > > So with all the knowledge out there in this group, what is it we missed
> or
> > > what is there we can do now and next time to keep those elemnts from
> > > traveling during firing? Any tips and tricks?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pam (a humid, rainy day in Michigan)
> > >
> _________________________________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> http://www.hotmail.com.
> > >
> > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> > > http://profiles.msn.com.
> > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Autumn Downey on sun 10 sep 00
Hi Pam,
I'm afraid I have no good ideas for you, but the same things happened in
one of our older Guild kilns, now disused. I don't believe these elements
were pinned in - they were supposed to sit in the groove by themselves,
but after awhile they started throwing themselves about the kiln. when I
heated them and tucked them back in, they would vibrate themselves back out
during the next firing. (Why do some elements become so mobile? I
remember seeing them jumping about when they were heating up.)
Did you have to stretch the elements before you put them in, or were they
already the right length?
This particular kiln of ours had rather wide grooves in the brick which
didn't help matters. Other kilns seem to have narrower openings to the
channels - and it seems that when one is ready to remove elements they are
often a little hard to get back out.
Is there anything to the technology (or art or science) of element winding
that might account for maverick behavior??
Anyway, hope you get a solution to this problem!
Autumn Downey
pam pulley on sun 10 sep 00
About 4 months ago we changed elements in our Skutt 1027 and the oval
Olympic. Now the elements are starting to pop out. Lost some pots because
of elements laying across bisque ware during firing. We we careful to not
stretch, fold, spindle or mutilate the elements. Use bent pins to hold them
in. Bought the elements from the kiln company. Even checked with Skutt to
see how they recommend the replacing of the elements. Did everything the
way we it's been said to do.
So with all the knowledge out there in this group, what is it we missed or
what is there we can do now and next time to keep those elemnts from
traveling during firing? Any tips and tricks?
Thanks,
Pam (a humid, rainy day in Michigan)
_________________________________________________________________________
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chrisclarke on sun 10 sep 00
Pam,
I also just replaced my elements in my skutt1027. Did you buy pins? I bought
U pins, not just the little pieces of wire they use when they build the kiln. I
haven't have any elements move a bit. If you want I can look for where I got
them. Now that you've fired though, you stand a greater risk of breaking the
elements when you push them back.
chris
By the way,
Did you have to hang upside down to do the bottom ones? I have to stand on a
stool to load my kiln (I'm 5foot and a quarter inch).
pam pulley wrote:
> About 4 months ago we changed elements in our Skutt 1027 and the oval
> Olympic. Now the elements are starting to pop out. Lost some pots because
> of elements laying across bisque ware during firing. We we careful to not
> stretch, fold, spindle or mutilate the elements. Use bent pins to hold them
> in. Bought the elements from the kiln company. Even checked with Skutt to
> see how they recommend the replacing of the elements. Did everything the
> way we it's been said to do.
>
> So with all the knowledge out there in this group, what is it we missed or
> what is there we can do now and next time to keep those elemnts from
> traveling during firing? Any tips and tricks?
>
> Thanks,
> Pam (a humid, rainy day in Michigan)
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Brunner on sun 10 sep 00
I have replaced elements a couple of times in larger Skutt
kilns. .
I put them in place according to the instructions, pinned
them well in place and then checked them carefully after the
first firing. Any place that looked like it could be a
problem I heated up to red, glowing heat with a propane
torch and them pushed the section back in place, pinning if
necesary. After the first heating the elements do not bend
well, they become more brittle and should not be moved with
out heating them and moving them while still red hot. I have
had no problems using this technique. I do keep an eye on
them over the next couple of firings just to be sure.
pam pulley wrote:
>
> About 4 months ago we changed elements in our Skutt 1027 and the oval
> Olympic. Now the elements are starting to pop out. Lost some pots because
> of elements laying across bisque ware during firing. We we careful to not
> stretch, fold, spindle or mutilate the elements. Use bent pins to hold them
> in. Bought the elements from the kiln company. Even checked with Skutt to
> see how they recommend the replacing of the elements. Did everything the
> way we it's been said to do.
>
> So with all the knowledge out there in this group, what is it we missed or
> what is there we can do now and next time to keep those elemnts from
> traveling during firing? Any tips and tricks?
>
> Thanks,
> Pam (a humid, rainy day in Michigan)
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Ann Brink on sun 10 sep 00
Pam and Chris,
I plan to replace all the elements in my 1027 next week, so this a
timely thread for me. I am certainly hoping to not have this problem!
I am planning to remove the lid and at least the top section, so as to be
able to reach the bottom. If someone has any reason why this is a bad idea,
please tell me now! TIA
Ann Brink in CA
----- Original Message -----
From: "chrisclarke"
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Floppy Element Question
> Pam,
> I also just replaced my elements in my skutt1027. Did you buy pins?
I bought
> U pins, not just the little pieces of wire they use when they build the
kiln. I
> haven't have any elements move a bit. If you want I can look for where I
got
> them. Now that you've fired though, you stand a greater risk of breaking
the
> elements when you push them back.
> chris
> By the way,
> Did you have to hang upside down to do the bottom ones? I have to
stand on a
> stool to load my kiln (I'm 5foot and a quarter inch).
>
> pam pulley wrote:
>
> > About 4 months ago we changed elements in our Skutt 1027 and the oval
> > Olympic. Now the elements are starting to pop out. Lost some pots
because
> > of elements laying across bisque ware during firing. We we careful to
not
> > stretch, fold, spindle or mutilate the elements. Use bent pins to hold
them
> > in. Bought the elements from the kiln company. Even checked with Skutt
to
> > see how they recommend the replacing of the elements. Did everything
the
> > way we it's been said to do.
> >
> > So with all the knowledge out there in this group, what is it we missed
or
> > what is there we can do now and next time to keep those elemnts from
> > traveling during firing? Any tips and tricks?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pam (a humid, rainy day in Michigan)
> >
_________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
http://www.hotmail.com.
> >
> > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> > http://profiles.msn.com.
> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Diane G. Echlin on mon 11 sep 00
I recently rplaced the elements in my 1027 with the controller. I highly recommed
you take all the rings apart! It's extremely easy to work on a table top, and you
can then check all those little wire connections in the control box, too. I also
vacuumed out the channels after removing the old elements, just to be sure
everything was nice and tidy.
Diane in CT
Ann Brink wrote:
> Pam and Chris,
> I plan to replace all the elements in my 1027 next week, so this a
> timely thread for me. I am certainly hoping to not have this problem!
>
> I am planning to remove the lid and at least the top section, so as to be
> able to reach the bottom. If someone has any reason why this is a bad idea,
> please tell me now! TIA
>
> Ann Brink in CA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> From: "chrisclarke"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 8:19 AM
> Subject: Re: Floppy Element Question
>
> > Pam,
> > I also just replaced my elements in my skutt1027. Did you buy pins?
> I bought
> > U pins, not just the little pieces of wire they use when they build the
> kiln. I
> > haven't have any elements move a bit. If you want I can look for where I
> got
> > them. Now that you've fired though, you stand a greater risk of breaking
> the
> > elements when you push them back.
> > chris
> > By the way,
> > Did you have to hang upside down to do the bottom ones? I have to
> stand on a
> > stool to load my kiln (I'm 5foot and a quarter inch).
> >
> > pam pulley wrote:
> >
> > > About 4 months ago we changed elements in our Skutt 1027 and the oval
> > > Olympic. Now the elements are starting to pop out. Lost some pots
> because
> > > of elements laying across bisque ware during firing. We we careful to
> not
> > > stretch, fold, spindle or mutilate the elements. Use bent pins to hold
> them
> > > in. Bought the elements from the kiln company. Even checked with Skutt
> to
> > > see how they recommend the replacing of the elements. Did everything
> the
> > > way we it's been said to do.
> > >
> > > So with all the knowledge out there in this group, what is it we missed
> or
> > > what is there we can do now and next time to keep those elemnts from
> > > traveling during firing? Any tips and tricks?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pam (a humid, rainy day in Michigan)
> > >
> _________________________________________________________________________
> > > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
> http://www.hotmail.com.
> > >
> > > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> > > http://profiles.msn.com.
> > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
chris@euclids.com on mon 11 sep 00
> what is there we can do now and next time to keep those elemnts from
> traveling during firing? Any tips and tricks?
> Thanks,
> Pam (a humid, rainy day in Michigan)
Hi Pam,
A good tip is to make sure that the element is not too short.
It should be pushing against the backwall of the element groove & tucked
well back into the corners. During installation, try to compress the element
(very slightly) ... instead of just placing
it into the grooves ... & just give it "a hint of a bend" in the corners
(don`t over do it when bending the element for the corners)
As an example, think about an element that goes only once around in a kiln
.... if it is slightly compressed, it may be trying to be a diameter of say,
24" overall. If the diameter of the groove (overall) is less than that, it
should always be forcing itself backwards into the groove, instead of trying
to pop out into the kiln chamber.
Also make sure that the angle the pins are on is actually creating some
resistance to the element coming out.
Give us a call if you need any more help,
chris
chris@euclids.com
www.euclids.com
800-296-5456
GSM_ENT on mon 11 sep 00
Hi!
The heating elements must be positioned well into the groove of the
firebricks when they are installed. After the kiln arrives to the owner's
house, the elements are to be reseated using a nonmetalic object as per the
manufacturer's instructions (check your owner's manual) as during shipping
the elements can come loose.
To install an element you must place "constant" pressure on the element in
and down the groove using both hands. If you release the pressure at anytime
the element will not seat properly. Once you learn how to properly install
an elements thay will not come out.
When the kiln is fired for the first time it should be fired to cone 01.
There are two reasons for this; 1) To create a protective coating of
Aluminun Oxyde on the elements 2) To allow the element to get hot enough so
that it will seat deep into its groove.
Bulging or sagging elements should not be moved except when hot. It is best
to heat up a section (6-8 inches) at a time with a small propane torch and
move it using needle nose pliers. This procedure is safer than what most
manufacturers recommend - fire the kiln on high for 5-10 minutes to heat up
the elements before you move them and then using the needle nose pliers
reposition the drooping elements into their grooves. You can burn yourself
by doing this.
Once in the the element is in the groove you can assure they are well deep
into the groove and use elements staples or pins to further secure them in
place. You must insure that you catch at least one turn of the elements with
the pin or stapple to secure against the firebrick. Once in place it is
recommended you do a firing cone 04 or higher to soften the elements and
allow them to properly seat in their grooves.
Normally only China Painters have this problem of bulging elements because
they always fire so cold (018) and travel with their kilns. When you fire
hotter (cones 6 to 10) the elements, that originaly were round, become oval
shaped. That is why they are hard to get out of the groove-they lost their s
hape-when they need changing.
Tony
----- Original Message -----
From: Autumn Downey
To:
Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 8:37 PM
Subject: Re: floppy element question
> Hi Pam,
>
> I'm afraid I have no good ideas for you, but the same things happened in
> one of our older Guild kilns, now disused. I don't believe these elements
> were pinned in - they were supposed to sit in the groove by themselves,
> but after awhile they started throwing themselves about the kiln. when I
> heated them and tucked them back in, they would vibrate themselves back
out
> during the next firing. (Why do some elements become so mobile? I
> remember seeing them jumping about when they were heating up.)
>
> Did you have to stretch the elements before you put them in, or were they
> already the right length?
>
> This particular kiln of ours had rather wide grooves in the brick which
> didn't help matters. Other kilns seem to have narrower openings to the
> channels - and it seems that when one is ready to remove elements they are
> often a little hard to get back out.
>
> Is there anything to the technology (or art or science) of element winding
> that might account for maverick behavior??
>
> Anyway, hope you get a solution to this problem!
>
> Autumn Downey
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
pam pulley on mon 11 sep 00
Things looked fine for these coils for awhile. We used both straight pens
we bent and u-shaped pins. Yes we heat the coils when putting them back in
place. Standing on your head replacing the elments seems to be a standard.
Not a lot of fun. A little easier when you have several people and can
trade off.
-pam
>From: Earl Brunner
>Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: Floppy Element Question
>Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 08:26:15 -0700
>
>I have replaced elements a couple of times in larger Skutt
>kilns. .
>I put them in place according to the instructions, pinned
>them well in place and then checked them carefully after the
>first firing. Any place that looked like it could be a
>problem I heated up to red, glowing heat with a propane
>torch and them pushed the section back in place, pinning if
>necesary. After the first heating the elements do not bend
>well, they become more brittle and should not be moved with
>out heating them and moving them while still red hot. I have
>had no problems using this technique. I do keep an eye on
>them over the next couple of firings just to be sure.
>
>pam pulley wrote:
> >
> > About 4 months ago we changed elements in our Skutt 1027 and the oval
> > Olympic. Now the elements are starting to pop out. Lost some pots
>because
> > of elements laying across bisque ware during firing. We we careful to
>not
> > stretch, fold, spindle or mutilate the elements. Use bent pins to hold
>them
> > in. Bought the elements from the kiln company. Even checked with Skutt
>to
> > see how they recommend the replacing of the elements. Did everything
>the
> > way we it's been said to do.
> >
> > So with all the knowledge out there in this group, what is it we missed
>or
> > what is there we can do now and next time to keep those elemnts from
> > traveling during firing? Any tips and tricks?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pam (a humid, rainy day in Michigan)
> >
>_________________________________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at
>http://www.hotmail.com.
> >
> > Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> > http://profiles.msn.com.
> >
> >
>______________________________________________________________________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>
>--
>Earl Brunner
>http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
>mailto:bruec@anv.net
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________________
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