Philip Poburka on fri 22 sep 00
Thank you Robert,
I believe you!
There may very well be no 'documented' cases here in U.S.
*************
Pre 'P.S.' - just looked into the C.D.C. site ( which for those who may be
unfamiliar
with it, is "Center for Disease Control") and tried for 1/2 hour to get
some useful info. Right up there with 'mcdonalds'... 'mc-disinfo'...I
suppose.
Info they 'have' was VERY
useless, and worse than 'merely' not up-to-date'. I will 'keep on it' - 'at
my liesure'. SURELY 'they' have better stuff...or elsewhere...
Did get the following:
'Mad-Cow' also known as 'Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy', or 'BSE'. In
Humans, it is known as 'new-variant Creutzfeldt-Jacob' disease, or 'nvCJD'.
***********
O - maybe not having been so clear as I would wish - the 'ashes' from
Crematories are almost certainly quite 'safe', tho' not so with conventional
'bone-meal' products.
My 'info' (heresay?) came from (I believe,) a 'P.B.S.' programme
in which several people were interviewed...some had the 'complaint', others
were the Spouses.
The brains of these suffering people (were said to have) contained the
'prions' associated with 'mad-cow' and or cannibalism (as 'Edi' (?) Amin
Dada, 'President-for-Life'...
et all).
Cannibalism being (summarily, if not out of politeness) 'ruled-out', the
appearent vector was 'bone-meal' used in gardens.
these people HAD been avid hobbysts with Roses and so on.
Variously, in several of these 'cases' that was the only discoverable common
'thing' which could account for the presence of the 'prions' in these
unhappy neural situations.
I believe that they disclosed results of 'bone-meal' tests as somehow
indicating the presence of these 'prions' and talked as well about how
difficult it were to render them inactive.
It was conjectured that MANY similar 'cases' remain blandly or otherwise
'mis-diagnosed' as senile dementia, etc. and etc.
No one had 'yet' thought of LOOKING for these 'prions' in older - or
not-quite-so-'older'- people....the effects/symptoms are variant from
'mad-cow' proper.
The 'prions' aparently refuse to relinquish their potential for mischief,
even under the influence of nasty solvents, strong acids, considerable
nuclear-radiation, 'extreme heat'(how 'extreme'?) or other means which
compell other recalsitrant (sub-visual) entities to return to their Maker.
The prions are rather small, - if memory serves - of a magnitude near to
that of a virus.
They did not, as yet, manage to be accounted for by our present definitions
of a 'life-form'...
Also...conversation with a Veterinary...most pets do not live long enough to
manifest 'suspicious' symptoms, but among some who do, the presence of these
'prions' has been found in neural tissues...and with associated
pathology/symptomalogy...thought to be from 'pet-food', which, though
'cooked' into oblivion, is often made from a mixture containing general
'Creatures' of often disappointing origin/condition.
"Meat-Byproducts:"
- old zoo monkies, road-kill, any kind of tumors, 'growths', mis-carriages,
deformed, diseased and or otherwise distasteful offal.'Downer-Cattle'...
Should be a big
scandal. Lots of 'sketchy' middlemen in THAT 'racket'. "ANY" dead Creatures
'available' TO the marketplace can become constituant of 'pet-food',and
possibly 'people-food'...
probably more than one 'crime-family' associate ended up 'canned' for all we
'know'.
'Pet-food' routinely contains plenty of 'dogs' and 'cats', which thence,
giving rise to 'cannibalistic' practices, may cultivate the 'prion' without
recourse to Cannibalistic-Bovine or other 'sources'.
That is about all I 'know' on this...any Biologists/Neurologists/etc. out
there?
(Feel free to 'help-me-out'!)
I am inclined to contact the C.D.C in Atlanta - they used to be quite an
outfit, tho' lost more than some of their honor under Carter, Regan, Bush,
Clinton.
Had their 'teeth' pulled...Last I heard they say 'Yes boss', 'how high
boss?' etc. Too Bad.
They 'SHOULD' have info, indices of published research/articles.
Medical Libraries too...
....never enough 'time'...so MANY things!
Thank you!
Philip Poburka
Las Vegas, Nevada
------Original Message------
From: Robert Santerre
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: September 22, 2000 1:48:45 AM GMT
Subject: Re: "Bone-Ash" - and "Prions" (Mad Cow)
To the best of my knowledge there has never been a documented case of "mad
cow"
disease in the US bovine population.
Bob
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Philip Poburka wrote:
> Ummmm...for those who may use 'bone-meal' or similar things, whether in
the
> Garden or elsewhere...the 'prions' associated with 'mad-cow' disease are
> known to be present in these sorts of materials. The 'normal' roasting
> proceedures do not render the agent inactive.
>
> Bovine derived 'bone-meal' was/is also used as a dietary suppliment.
> Likewise, 'pet-food' containing 'meat-byproducts/bone-meal' on and
on...not
> so good.
> Bones and nerve/neural tissues appearing to be the abode of these hardy
> culprits.
>
> One may wish to exercise particular care - inspiration of such dusts or
> particulates in the l960s and 70s maybe 80s, by Gardeners and others,
being
> very strongly suspected as vector in their present unhappy palsied
> dementias.
>
> Moral: Neither a Cannibal, nor an 'eater'(in ANY way) of Cannibals, Be.
> Witting or unwitting.
>
> (Bye feeding Cows 'Cows', or through such Cannibalism as where the Bones,
> brains, marrow etc. are eaten, the 'prion' is taken-in, and -if one live
> long enough- may have it's way.)
>
> This news is several years old - I'm sure more has been understood since.
>
> Takes a while to get you...stay 'upwind', or better, just say 'no'.
>
> Phil
> Dystopia, Nevada
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: Frank Gaydos
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Sent: September 20, 2000 10:29:17 PM GMT
> Subject: Bone Ash for the Garden???
>
> Jim,
> Why don't you try a 100 gram batch and let us know.?
>
> Frank Gaydos
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------
> Subject: Bone Ash for the Garden???
>
> Is the bone ash we use in our garden the same quality(?) as the bone ash I
> would use in a glaze?
>
> Just curious.
>
> Cullen
> Naperville, Illinois
>
>
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______________________________________________________________________________
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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wiwiz on sat 23 sep 00
Phil...
On http://www.mad-cow.org/quick_links.html
one might be able to find information relevant to safe ashes.
There are some ListServes which hold the possibilities of some helpful,
knowledgeable humans.
And because of these Prions, there could be a question of what can a bad
ash transfer.
There is no link directly to anykind of ceramic info.source...but I think
there may be some real information that we may not hit upon
elsewhere....although, it may not be easily found.
Linda
Cindy Strnad on sat 23 sep 00
Philip,
I'm surprised. A smart guy like you, going to a government site expecting to
find any information, let alone a true story? Go to the
rascally outcasts. They're at least more interesting, if not necessarily
more accurate. (And no, I haven't researched this particular problem--just
giving you a hard time.)
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
www.earthenvesselssd.com
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