Philip Poburka on thu 21 sep 00
Ummmm...for those who may use 'bone-meal' or similar things, whether in the
Garden or elsewhere...the 'prions' associated with 'mad-cow' disease are
known to be present in these sorts of materials. The 'normal' roasting
proceedures do not render the agent inactive.
Bovine derived 'bone-meal' was/is also used as a dietary suppliment.
Likewise, 'pet-food' containing 'meat-byproducts/bone-meal' on and on...not
so good.
Bones and nerve/neural tissues appearing to be the abode of these hardy
culprits.
One may wish to exercise particular care - inspiration of such dusts or
particulates in the l960s and 70s maybe 80s, by Gardeners and others, being
very strongly suspected as vector in their present unhappy palsied
dementias.
Moral: Neither a Cannibal, nor an 'eater'(in ANY way) of Cannibals, Be.
Witting or unwitting.
(Bye feeding Cows 'Cows', or through such Cannibalism as where the Bones,
brains, marrow etc. are eaten, the 'prion' is taken-in, and -if one live
long enough- may have it's way.)
This news is several years old - I'm sure more has been understood since.
Takes a while to get you...stay 'upwind', or better, just say 'no'.
Phil
Dystopia, Nevada
------Original Message------
From: Frank Gaydos
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: September 20, 2000 10:29:17 PM GMT
Subject: Bone Ash for the Garden???
Jim,
Why don't you try a 100 gram batch and let us know.?
Frank Gaydos
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------
Subject: Bone Ash for the Garden???
Is the bone ash we use in our garden the same quality(?) as the bone ash I
would use in a glaze?
Just curious.
Cullen
Naperville, Illinois
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Robert Santerre on thu 21 sep 00
To the best of my knowledge there has never been a documented case of "mad cow"
disease in the US bovine population.
Bob
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Philip Poburka wrote:
> Ummmm...for those who may use 'bone-meal' or similar things, whether in the
> Garden or elsewhere...the 'prions' associated with 'mad-cow' disease are
> known to be present in these sorts of materials. The 'normal' roasting
> proceedures do not render the agent inactive.
>
> Bovine derived 'bone-meal' was/is also used as a dietary suppliment.
> Likewise, 'pet-food' containing 'meat-byproducts/bone-meal' on and on...not
> so good.
> Bones and nerve/neural tissues appearing to be the abode of these hardy
> culprits.
>
> One may wish to exercise particular care - inspiration of such dusts or
> particulates in the l960s and 70s maybe 80s, by Gardeners and others, being
> very strongly suspected as vector in their present unhappy palsied
> dementias.
>
> Moral: Neither a Cannibal, nor an 'eater'(in ANY way) of Cannibals, Be.
> Witting or unwitting.
>
> (Bye feeding Cows 'Cows', or through such Cannibalism as where the Bones,
> brains, marrow etc. are eaten, the 'prion' is taken-in, and -if one live
> long enough- may have it's way.)
>
> This news is several years old - I'm sure more has been understood since.
>
> Takes a while to get you...stay 'upwind', or better, just say 'no'.
>
> Phil
> Dystopia, Nevada
>
> ------Original Message------
> From: Frank Gaydos
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Sent: September 20, 2000 10:29:17 PM GMT
> Subject: Bone Ash for the Garden???
>
> Jim,
> Why don't you try a 100 gram batch and let us know.?
>
> Frank Gaydos
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------
> Subject: Bone Ash for the Garden???
>
> Is the bone ash we use in our garden the same quality(?) as the bone ash I
> would use in a glaze?
>
> Just curious.
>
> Cullen
> Naperville, Illinois
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Martin Howard on fri 22 sep 00
Bob declared that:- To the best of my knowledge there has never been a
documented case of "mad cow" disease in the US bovine population.
If you believe that, you'll believe anything.
France and Germany said just the same. But we had shipped live and dead meat
out to them from Boston, Lincs, in an effort to clear our UK dairy herds of
the problem, before BSE became public knowledge. The old cattle were in
earth stockades on top of a hill, hidden from view, except from the air.
They were fed on horrible farm wastes including heads of sheep. I was a
planning consultant researching the site and objecting to it at the time.
Governments will say anything, until they have to change their tune.
The prions may be there in Garden Bone meal, but my source of Pet Ash comes
from pets and dead zoo animals, and not from our UK cattle. So I should be
safe.
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
Janet Kaiser on sat 23 sep 00
Speaking from the UK where BSE has been
devastating to the farming community and we have
been fairly well informed (at least latterly), I
have to voice a word of caution on this one.
I am not an expert and have no data to support
me, but a radio programme about a year ago
focused on BSE and the symptoms in cattle in
other countries officially not affected. There
was some pretty convincing investigative
journalism, which seemed to confirm that BSE (or
at least the same symptoms going by another name
I cannot remember) is prevalent in the many
"non-infected" countries, including the US.
It was apparently affecting those animals being
produced in huge numbers in small areas. There
was a lot of under-cover interviewing and
several people said they did not want to be
named because they did not want to lose their
jobs...
When the symptoms were first seen in the UK,
everyone was told not to panic and there was no
cause for concern. Now we know better, but have
other countries and administrations learned the
lesson? From what that BBC radio report
unearthed, I would definitely not be surprised
if it was one of those grey areas where "they"
are covering up or at least not making certain
data public knowledge. Beef production in the US
is very big business and where the big boys
are... Well, who knows what interests are
involved and accommodated?
It is not my intention to scare-monger. I am
sure the authorities are reasonably in control
and have the public health interests, rather
than big business at heart, BUT I would not be
too complacent. Just because you have not heard
of it, does not mean that there is not a risk.
They may be right when they say the symptoms
just look like BSE but it is a totally unrelated
condition and not dangerous to other animals,
including man.
I would be very careful using any bone-meal
products. Be aware of the risks that could be
involved and take every precaution when handling
any animal by-products. Don't panic, but do not
presume anything is safe until proved otherwise.
At least always use a mask and gloves when
handling bone-meal and wash your hands
thoroughly after glazing. Little precautions can
go a long way to preventing any chance of
infection from all sorts of conditions.
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
> To the best of my knowledge there has never
been a documented case of "mad cow" disease in
the US bovine population.
Janet Kaiser on sat 23 sep 00
Martin
Your presumption is that BSE is non-transgenic.
Do not forget that cats and dogs as well as zoo
animals have been feed on BSE infected meat and
animal waste. It was the only use allowed under
the restrictions imposed at the height of the
BSE crisis.
The UK has just had the first reported instance
of a woman who died of Kreuzfeld-Jakobs passing
the condition on to her baby. The infant is
suffering from all the symptoms. Cannot be
proved until the poor wee mite dies.
You are using bone-meal which is not intended
for further use. I would personally not depend
on your presumption it is BSE (and other related
conditions) free.
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
> The prions may be there in Garden Bone meal,
but my source of Pet Ash comes
> from pets and dead zoo animals, and not from
our UK cattle. So I should be
> safe.
Michael Banks on sat 23 sep 00
I believe the suspect proteins ("prions") thought to cause CJD, BSE, Kuru
etc. will not survive calcining over red heat (600oC). I would feel safe
using bone ash calcined at 900 or 1000oC.
I heard a low-key media report recently that indicated that the BSE/CJD
outbreak in the UK was initiated by government sponsored attempts to
increase cattle growth by injecting them with pituitary gland extract, not
by feeding them meat/bone meal, as is popularly supposed.
Michael Banks,
Nelson,
NZ
Martin Howard on sat 23 sep 00
Thanks Janet for the best advert so far for going Veggie and veganic.
I accept your warning about my source of Pet Ash.
You may be right, but it must be safer than what comes from the abattoirs
and even worse, from the pigs who are just being slaughtered due to swine
fever.
Remember also, those who live within 2 km of intensive factory farms. They
are breathing in the dust from such places all the time.
I always use the mask when dealing with my Pet Ash, and I don't take in any
form of meat whatsoever.
I pity those meat eating potters who use cattle bone ash and live close to a
factory farm. Their bodies must be working overtime to clear the system.
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
Cindy Strnad on sat 23 sep 00
The subject heading of this post may be unintentionally deceptive. Correct
me if I'm wrong, but bone ash is safe. No pathogen I know of, having been
taken to red heat, as is done with bone ash, can survive.
It is bone meal which has come under question.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
www.earthenvesselssd.com
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