David Hendley on mon 9 oct 00
I recently watched the movie 'Bowfinger'.
Here's a quick synopsis:
A sleazy would-be movie producer (Steve Martin)
tries to make a movie starring a famous actor
(Eddie Murphy), without the actor knowing about
it. They film him eating at a cafe, riding in his
car, etc., and them splice that in with the 'real'
actors to make it look like he is interacting with
them.
Not a deep, thoughtful movie, but, as a fan of both
Steve Martin & Eddie Murphy, I thought it was
pretty funny and entertaining.
Keep reading, this really is about Clayart.
One scene shows the sleazy producer holding
auditions for the movie. The sign out front says,
'Audition for a major motion picture, $25'. (Once
inside, we find out that the $25 fee is 'cash only'.)
The purpose of the scene was to be funny, show
how naive the actress just off the bus from Ohio is,
and illustrate what a hustler the producer is.
It is funny, but thinking about it later, I wondered
how that is any different from the 'jury fee' that
so many art fairs now charge on their applications.
I'm not talking about gallery shows that hire a well-
known artist to be a juror, I'm talking about for-profit
art fairs. The 'prize' you win if you pass the (unknown)
jury is that you can now pay them several hundred
dollars to be in their art fair.
Those of you who pay that fee, would you also pay
$25 to audition for an acting job?
If it's a sleazy hustle and comic material for a producer
to take advantage of actors in this way, why is it OK to
charge visual artists a fee to view their work?
Why do we continue to accept this?
--
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com/
Dale A. Neese on tue 10 oct 00
David, I assume that for one reason or another, that is the way some of the
bigger fairs have become. I sell mainly at retail fairs and have noticed the
trend of add on fees becoming all too common. For example a fair that I have
just finished loading a kiln of pots for this weekend is charging the $25
"jury fee" for selection into each of 2 big fairs they produce. Then don't
return your slides unless you request it. Plus they have raised the booth
fee for next year a $100. What cost me this year $350 for a 10x10 corner
booth will cost $450 next year. Heck, the artist wanting a double corner
booth will pay $900. Then they have the nerve to charge for artist parking
per day. If I want my same booth location for the next year, that is another
$15.
Well, I have seen some of the best fairs price themselves right out of
business because they have gotten so greedy and expensive. Even the buying
public must shell out $7.00 a person admission price. I am thinking about
passing on next year. I have a few friends that are thinking the same way. I
don't let shops and galleries take 50% anymore, and now I don't have to
accept art fair gouging either. Studio shows are nice. Even better when by
appointment too, people come in to buy $200 worth of pots.
Dale Tex
See you in Gruene.
Peg Landham on tue 10 oct 00
David Hendley wrote:=20
<...why is it OK to charge visual artists a fee to view their work?
Why do we continue to accept this?>
Hear, hear! I agree wholeheartedly that this is an unnecessary rip-off =
that we subject ourselves to, simply because we put up with it. I =
preferentially choose those entries that do not require a jury fee, and =
not solely for economic reasons. I would love to see one of these show =
organizers get back all their regular exhibitors' applications sans jury =
fee, with a note saying they will only participate if it's waived. But =
for artists to have any clout, we would have to organize. Until someone =
steps forward to rally the forces, it seems the best course of action is =
to vote with our slides. Mine go to the organizers who treat it an =
opportunity to consider my work rather than another chance to pick my =
pocket.
Someone with more experience may see this differently, and I'd love to =
hear why. But mainly, I think artists will never get any respect until =
we begin to respect ourselves and our work, and expect others to do =
likewise.
Peg Landham
Birmingham, Alabama
plandham@charter.net
Peg Landham on tue 10 oct 00
David Hendley wrote:=20
<...why is it OK to charge visual artists a fee to view their work?
Why do we continue to accept this?>
Once, in a neighborhood meeting, a county official there to help us with =
some pressing political issue pointed out that when our state =
representative complained of being "inundated with letters" on a certain =
subject, it turned out he had received six.
I say this by way of pointing out that we may have more clout than we =
realize. With Clayart, we already ARE organized. I'm not suggesting that =
those of you who are making a decent living at craft shows suddenly =
abandon the need to eat. But what about this: what if, when we came =
across a show we were only marginally interested in...
What if, instead of just passing it by and forgetting about it, we took =
the time and the 33 cents to sign and send a pre-printed letter saying =
we would consider participating except that we feel the jury fee is =
unreasonable, and exactly why. If all of us sent just one of these a =
month, it would amount to a lot of dripping faucets in the land of art =
profiteers.
I would be happy to pen such a document with your input and post it on =
SUCAWS, (with your permission, of course, Janet) for Clayarters to =
download, alter and reprint as you all see fit.
Any takers?
Peg Landham
Birmingham, AL
plandham@charter.net
KLeSueur@AOL.COM on tue 10 oct 00
In a message dated 10/9/00 10:44:07 PM, hendley@TYLER.NET writes:
<known artist to be a juror, I'm talking about for-profit
art fairs. The 'prize' you win if you pass the (unknown)
jury is that you can now pay them several hundred
dollars to be in their art fair.>>
Most of the "for-profit" promoters I am familiar with do not charge a jury
fee. Just one of them is the Sugarloaf shows. Unless she's changed her
policy, Audrey Levy is another. It is the "not-for-profits", Coconut Grove
and Lakefront come to mind, who have exorbinant jury fees. I believe they
actually budget for "x" amount of jury fees (in the case of Coconut Grove
I've heard as high as 10,000 times $35 to jury) to fund their organizations.
You might notice that in recent years a number of shows have sent out letters
extending their deadlines saying that hadn't gotten enough qualified
applicants. I suspect that they hadn't gotten enough jury fees.
Why do we continue to accept this?
That's why I went to wholesale. I do six shows a year. Two invite me back and
four don't charge a jury fee and I can pretty much count on being accepted
every year. Not everyone has the demand for their product to take this
option. And unfortunately, any organized effort to boycott shows that charge
"excessive" (in my opinion over $5) jury fees would fail. Either artists
would fear being black balled from other shows (these organizers do talk to
each other and share information) or they would look at this as a good
opportunity to get in the show as others chose to sit on the sidelines.
--
Kathi LeSueur
Ann Arbor, MI
Tom Wirt/Betsy Price on tue 10 oct 00
Hi all,
I don't necessarily object to a small fee for jurying....there are
some
costs, not only in the jurying, but in the off season when there is no
show income. $25 is maybe tops....$15 seems more reasonable...but
that's a
quibble when you're going to a show where you expect to make several
thousand dollars.
I do object to an additional percentage of sales, and won't do shows
of that sort. It is a rip, pure and simple. Indeed, if you really do
your numbers, giving even as small a number as 25% makes the retail
show MUCH less profitable than selling wholesale. You're nuts to do
it. If it's a charity that is using the percentage to fund the
charity, maybe OK, but maybe it's better just to write them a check.
I also object strenuously to the current fad of sending mass
mailings to get lots of jury fees when there are only a limited number
of slots available. And to shows who won't tell the actual number of
slots being juried for.
The only organization I know of that's fighting this battle for us,
and
deserves our support, is the NAIA. And they seem to be gaining some
headway in setting standards for show organizers. Visit
www.naia-artists.org
Russel's situation is a different matter...it's kind of like the craft
stores where you rent your space and then pay commission.
Tom Wirt
KLeSueur@AOL.COM on tue 10 oct 00
In a message dated 10/10/00 8:43:27 AM, plandham@CHARTER.NET writes:
<< But for artists to have any clout, we would have to organize. Until
someone steps forward to rally the forces, >>
Impossible. I don't hear you standing up to rally the troops. I've done it
and can tell you that at the first threat they will turn tail and run.
Kathi LeSueur
amy parker on tue 10 oct 00
David - actor-wanna-be's pay a fortune to have portfolio shots made, etc.
in the hopes of getting that Important Part. Hmm. I guess us
famous-potter-wanna-be's pay a fortune to have portfolio shots made too
(WG)! BUT - we don't have a screen actors guild equivalent to define
working standards and practices (opening that can again). Perhaps if we
did, we could do away with this practice, and define "standard rates" for
our pottery. As long as we are willing to pay to be auditioned, the
practice will continue.
Amy
>
>Those of you who pay that fee, would you also pay
>$25 to audition for an acting job?
>If it's a sleazy hustle and comic material for a producer
>to take advantage of actors in this way, why is it OK to
>charge visual artists a fee to view their work?
>Why do we continue to accept this?
>--
>David Hendley
Amy Parker
Lithonia, GA
June Perry on tue 10 oct 00
Dear Dale:
I think an answer to this would be to network local potters and create a
strong organization and hold your own yearly or twice a year show/sales.
Here in Oregon, we have such a group in the Portland area and even people in
the southern part of the state have joined and particpate at various levels.
Theirs would be a very good model to follow. They hold a yearly sale at the
Portland Convention center and it is incredibly successful and totally run by
the members who all have to participate during the year on the various
committees.
I believe that when one feels they are being taking advantage of, it's time
to initiate the steps take back one's power. It means more work and more
participation, but I think it can also bring a great deal of satisfaction.
I can't speak for those who run these shows. Having no knowledge of the
expenses that they incur or their profit margin, it would be impossible to
make a judgement whether they are trying to gouge or just trying to keep up
with their own increased expenses. All I can say, is that if it doesn't feel
good to you, then that is motivation enough to look for other avenues for
promoting your work.
Mel gave good advice a while back -- work on establishing a strong customer
base within 50 miles of your home if you can. that would work unless you are
buried deeply in the boonies! :-)
When you think of the money you have to spend on these fairs, motel costs,
food costs, transportation, time, etc. you might be better served getting a
few potters, weavers, jewelers, wood workers, etc. together and put on your
own show. Combine mailing lists, and use the money to take out ads, do
mailings, etc. It will take time to build it up, but I think it would be a
worth while endeavor.
When I lived in Santa Barbara, a potter friend of mine did just that. We
didn't even pay for ads -- just used everyone's mailing list and sent out a
simple, single sheet, postcards announcing the sale/show. If you all took
just half the cost of one of those show fees and put it into your own
publicity you would probably do exceeding well, if you have a good,
potential, customer base.
Offer refreshements, maybe hire a trio of musicians -- make it an event. It
would be work and fun and less costly than doing one of those high priced
fairs. It would give you sales and enlarge your customer base. Put down a
guest book and a sign for people to sign the book if they wish to be notified
of other sales, kiln opening, etc.
There's also a lot of free publicity out there via local radio show,
newspaper event listings, bulletin boards, etc. Just give yourselves a title,
i.e. "Rogue Valley Artisians", etc. write up a simple PR sheet and send it to
the sources mentioned.
Sovereignty can be fun, as well as powerful! :-)
Regards,
June
Joanne L. Van Bezooyen on tue 10 oct 00
David, I've thought the same as your post all along. Whenever I bring it up,
however, the jurors on the other side defend themselves with lists of their
expenses they need to cover. So far, I've managed to market my work in other ways
than 'juried' events. I won't become famous or develop a gallery 'name'....but I
am one that really doesn't care about that. I want to create art with clay and
glazes and sell it to please others and obtain money. I guess we need many avenues
for many artists.
Joanne
David Hendley wrote:
> I recently watched the movie 'Bowfinger'.
> Here's a quick synopsis:
> A sleazy would-be movie producer (Steve Martin)
> tries to make a movie starring a famous actor
> (Eddie Murphy), without the actor knowing about
> it. They film him eating at a cafe, riding in his
> car, etc., and them splice that in with the 'real'
> actors to make it look like he is interacting with
> them.
> Not a deep, thoughtful movie, but, as a fan of both
> Steve Martin & Eddie Murphy, I thought it was
> pretty funny and entertaining.
>
> Keep reading, this really is about Clayart.
>
> One scene shows the sleazy producer holding
> auditions for the movie. The sign out front says,
> 'Audition for a major motion picture, $25'. (Once
> inside, we find out that the $25 fee is 'cash only'.)
> The purpose of the scene was to be funny, show
> how naive the actress just off the bus from Ohio is,
> and illustrate what a hustler the producer is.
>
> It is funny, but thinking about it later, I wondered
> how that is any different from the 'jury fee' that
> so many art fairs now charge on their applications.
> I'm not talking about gallery shows that hire a well-
> known artist to be a juror, I'm talking about for-profit
> art fairs. The 'prize' you win if you pass the (unknown)
> jury is that you can now pay them several hundred
> dollars to be in their art fair.
>
> Those of you who pay that fee, would you also pay
> $25 to audition for an acting job?
> If it's a sleazy hustle and comic material for a producer
> to take advantage of actors in this way, why is it OK to
> charge visual artists a fee to view their work?
> Why do we continue to accept this?
> --
> David Hendley
> Maydelle, Texas
> hendley@tyler.net
> http://www.farmpots.com/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Joanne L. Van Bezooyen
520-749-1685
Art Gecko Designs
http://www.arteriordesigns.com/noname.html
voice & fax: 520 760-1584
11220 East Via Madre
Tucson, Arizona 85749 USA
Andie Carpenter on tue 10 oct 00
I don't mind a small fee - $5 or $10, when it's a large gallery or show that expects to receive hundreds or thousands of entries. I used to know a girl who worked part time for a New York gallery going through the submissions for shows and weeding out the ones that either had the forms filled out wrong or the work was inappropriate for the theme of the show, and she did get paid a portion of the submission fee - she got something like $4 per submission she opened. Also, my local Arts Center charges a small submission fee, and the money goes in to their non-profit coffers. But I do mind paying $25 or $30 to enter a show, and then having to also send a stamp to get my slides back if I don't get in. Insult to
injury.
Andie Carpenter
Cindy Strnad on tue 10 oct 00
I agree that jury fees are silly and exploitative.
Well, okay--a reasonable fee for good service, to pay the person(s) doing
the jurying, and to have your materials returned and so on--but $25-30-? is
a bit excessive.
Here's the problem, though. All the potters in the world can refuse to enter
these shows and there will still be plenty of photographers, wood carvers,
glass blowers, silk painters . . . . well, you get the idea. Still, I don't
bother with them. But I doubt anyone misses me.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
J Kalin on wed 11 oct 00
Hi all-
I am sorry I missed the beginning of this thread.
However I think the one of the issues involved is the
notion o fbeing a smart consumer. Our money is a vote,
telling those who we support with it, "I think you are
doing good things, and think my hard-earned money is
worth giving up to suppport it." This is how I feel
when I am buying other artist's or craftpeople's work,
and I sense that others are saying the same thing when
they buy my work.
I have absolutely no problem paying 20, 30, or even 40
dollar jury fees to higher-end sales-oriented shows
(craft fairs, street fairs, whatever we will call
them) if I feel that the competitive nature of the
show means that should I participate, I will likely
make enough money to make it worth my time, energy,
and capital output. It is an honor to be included in
shows and fairs where everywhere one looks there is
work of the highest quality (Smithsonian Craft Fair;
Winter Park, FL; Ann Arbor Street Art Fair; Cherry
Creek are all good examples of competitive shows that
value showing the best work posible in all media). The
energy and time and output of capital it requires to
put on a top-quality show is incredible, and jurying
is one of the main emphases of this process. It can
take two or three days to look at the slides alone,
and many hundreds of people hours to process the
applicaitons, sort slides, prepare all the carousels
so mistakes aren't made that might cost someone the
opportunity to have a 10,000 dollar weekend, etc... I
will pay them 30 bucks to make sure things are done
right and that I have an equal opportunity to get in,
not a "chance". Chance equates to luck; opportunity
equates to possibilities based on the quality of our
work, slides, etc...
If you don't want to support this kind of enterprise,
and I certainly can understand the frustrations of
having to pay so much money to get started or to "be
seen," by all means get together with folks near you,
get organized, and do a group sale, or a studio tour,
or find a gallery space that you can use to mount your
exhibitions and take the time and energy to publicize
them well. It can be a rewarding experience. Get the
media out to see it by sending press releases to
everybody and their uncle 3 or 4 weeks in advance and
follow up with phone calls to confirm. Frankly, most
of the time, I will pay someone a jury fee (and a
commission for a gallery show or a booth fee for a
street/ craft fair) to dot his work on our behalf. The
best shows don't miss the ball much. Shows that do
mess up too often won't get my participation until
they show they have turned thigns around.
NAIA- National Association of Independant Artists- are
doing great work making life more equittable for us
artists. Please check them out, and if you want a
louder voice in sharing your concerns and seeing
changes made, please become a member. I have- and it's
the best $40 I have spent since I bought my last tool.
www.naia-artists.org
Keep making the work and the opporutnities shake out
in the the end.
Jeremy Nudell Kalin
a Minnesota in the middle of Massachussets
__________________________________________________
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Earl Brunner on wed 11 oct 00
Most show/sales have an application fee and either a booth
fee or a commission. Promoters often charge for parking,
admission to the sale, some even control or run the
concessions. (there you go Bob, that can of store brand soda
will cost you $1.50, You want bottled water? two bucks for
the one that costs $.59 in the store.) I think that David
Hendley had a valid gripe here though.
The application fee should not be a source of income for the
promoters of the show. It should be a nominal fee. It could
fairly be used to offset the costs of the screening/jury
process. Fairs that are obviously gouging the public and the
artist are not good for either the artist or the public.
We need to look at all the costs associated with a sale and
decide if it is something we want to do. Many artists
aren't doing fairs anymore.
J Kalin wrote:
>
> Hi all-
>
> I am sorry I missed the beginning of this thread.
> However I think the one of the issues involved is the
> notion o fbeing a smart consumer. Our money is a vote,
> telling those who we support with it, "I think you are
> doing good things, and think my hard-earned money is
> worth giving up to suppport it." This is how I feel
> when I am buying other artist's or craftpeople's work,
> and I sense that others are saying the same thing when
> they buy my work.
>
> I have absolutely no problem paying 20, 30, or even 40
> dollar jury fees to higher-end sales-oriented shows
> (craft fairs, street fairs, whatever we will call
> them) if I feel that the competitive nature of the
> show means that should I participate, I will likely
> make enough money to make it worth my time, energy,
> and capital output.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Eydie DeVincenzi on fri 13 oct 00
<known artist to be a juror, I'm talking about for-profit
art fairs. The 'prize' you win if you pass the (unknown)
jury is that you can now pay them several hundred
dollars to be in their art fair.>>
Sadly it is the not-for-profits that are the most abusive in money matter=
s.
I think it is because they have their HISTORICAL roots in poverity while=
currently working as full-scale RETAILERS - now that the government looks=
the other ways when it comes to their profit ventures. Yet they do not
know how to be real business people; they rely on that old knee-jerk of
"you're giving it to a good cause" response. Fact is, all my money to AA=
RP
and to church organizations just help them build multi-million dollar Taj=
Mahals on prime real estate (case in point, 16th Street in District of
Columbia). Very few FOR-profits can afford to do the business ventures
that NOT-for-profits can afford to do. =
Eydie DeVincenzi
Eydie DeVincenzi on fri 13 oct 00
The way I decide whether to do a specific show again is that I add ALL of=
my expenses (including fees, packing and unpacking, traveling, food on th=
e
road, hotel, and an hourly salary rate for all of this especially for
travelling and the time staffing the booth). I then add my receipts from=
last year. If I did not meet ALL of my expenses PLUS a profit at least
50%, then doing the show again would be a dump business decision for
me....per my accountant.
Eydie
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