Lee Jaffe on fri 3 nov 00
I'll add my two cents. I buy computers for my job, about 50-60 systems
each year, about half Macs and half Wintel machines. I can't say enough
good about the quality of the iMac line and some of the earlier PowerMac
models: well-built and well-designed and a pretty good deal used if you
can find one from a reliable source. Some models are upgradeable. I'm
running a used PowerMac 7500 with a G3 upgrade card and a 4GB drive
which cost me $500. When this seems too slow, I'll spend a few hundred
dollars to upgrade to a G4 and more memory. A new or used iMac, esp. the
last year's models, is also a good deal, with a built-in modem, speakers and
pretty good monitor. For information about used Mac models and upgrades,
see http://www.everymac.com/ For a good mail order source for used
Macs see http://www.smalldog.com/
For PCs, we also buy Dells and I recommend them with a bit of a caveat. I've
had 2 people come back to me unhappy with Dell and with me for recommending
them. My understanding is that Dell makes its money with business customers
and though they are rated highest for service, home buyers may not get as
much attention. Otherwise, after buying 200+ of these machines and dealing
with them a lot, I'm a happy repeat customer. After one bad run-in with
Gateway I've never gone back and I've heard a lot of comment that this was
a good decision. My experience with Dell is that they ship replacements
immediately, often using overnight service. My brother had problems with
his monitor and talked to their customer service around midnight. Next
morning there was a FedEx guy on his doorstep with a new monitor. I've
had similar experiences with them all along. Most other companies make
you send back the bad unit and wait until they've received it and tested
it before shipping a replacement. Dell isn't cheap but I think their prices
are worth it.
I couldn't imagine having to resolve a problem or get something repaired
through KMart, or most chain stores for that matter. Assume that something
is going to go wrong within the life of your computer and figure that part
of the price is being about to get that taken care of somewhere down the line.
Also, the BlueLight special has too little memory and they want to charge you
$60 for the $10 cable that goes with the free printer. That should tell you
something right up front.
If you are going online, the most important component is going to be your
connection. A really fast and expensive computer connected to a 56K
modem is still going to be slow. No use buying the hottest newest computer
to use with a modem. Buy last year's model and put a lot of memory in it
and put the money you save towards buying some cool parts like a digital
camera.
-- Lee Jaffe
Jim Bozeman on fri 3 nov 00
Hey all, I've decided I have to get my own computer to put up my pots for
sell on eBay. What's a decent used computer to buy these days? I'd like to
keep the price under $500.00 . I certainly don't want to have all of the
bells and whistles, just something to surf the net and put work on eBay. Any
thoughts on this? Jim
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amy parker on fri 3 nov 00
Jim - For about $800, you can buy a brand new Dell computer, complete with
monitor, cd-rom, fax modem, etc - all "state of the art". You will want a
lot of these "bells & whistles" as you begin to use the computer. It comes
with the software pre-loaded. For the amount of trouble you will have
setting up someone else's used computer to meet your needs, you would not
be saving anything, especially time, unless you are a computer wizard
already.
My husband buys computers for his company, hundreds every year, and has
found Dell to be the most responsive and best priced vendor. Other friends
have been pleased with Gateway.
Call Dell at 1-800-545-3607 and discuss your intentions with them. They
will help you decide what all you need and how much it will cost. You will
still need a printer and probably a scanner to meet all your needs.
Amy
Don't own any of the company, just like the service!
At 03:15 AM 11/3/00 GMT, you wrote:
>Hey all, I've decided I have to get my own computer to put up my pots for
>sell on eBay. What's a decent used computer to buy these days? I'd like to
>keep the price under $500.00 . I certainly don't want to have all of the
>bells and whistles, just something to surf the net and put work on eBay. Any
>thoughts on this? Jim
>
Amy Parker
Lithonia, GA
Lee Love on fri 3 nov 00
Jim,
My son picked up an Emachine at Best Buy and is happy with it.
I think it cost around $500.00
--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
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Anita Rickenberg on fri 3 nov 00
The prices have fallen dramatically on PCs in the last few years. You =
can get a complete new system (PC, monitor, keyboard, etc.) for approx. =
$500. Check out several of the online computer sales sites--Tiger, =
PCwarehouse, buy.com--and I'm sure there's others. If you're only =
interested in auction sales, the only other hardware you'd need is =
either a scanner (if you use prints), or if you're using a digital =
camera you wouldn't need that. You'd also need software to edit your =
pictures which can be as inexpensive or as expensive as you care to get. =
Prices on that range from the $20's for inexpensive editing software to =
$500-$600 for Adobe Photoshop.
Anita
June Perry on fri 3 nov 00
I have to give my vote for Dell. I'm a bit prejudiced because I love mine!
When I was computer shopping again a few years ago I did mega research and
Dell came up the winner on quality, speed, etc.
Not all computers look the same when you get into the innards. Dell builds a
very high quality machine. Check out their web site. You can put together
your own package. That's what I did. If you want more information on their
systems and pricing, their address is just. www.dell.com
Regards,
June
Cindy Strnad on fri 3 nov 00
Hi, Jim.
If I were you, I'd check out the contemporary pottery situation on e-bay
before buying a computer exclusively for that purpose. People bid like crazy
on "collectors" items, but I don't see a lot of action on new things. There
have been potters on this list who have been pleased with their responses,
but it has to be the exception based on the bids I've seen.
Why not have a friend post some items for you and see how you like it? A
computer is good to have, but a used computer will be of limited use to you
in any case, and if you only want it for e-bay, maybe a trial run before
buying is in order.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
June Perry on fri 3 nov 00
Oops, I forgot to mention, that is you are firmly tied to your $500 budget,
you may want to check out Dammark catalogue (it may be spelled Damark). You
can use a search engine to see if their on line. They do have an 800 number
you can call to request a catalogue. They have a lot of computers at very
good prices.
Also, another place to check are the home shopping shows. Many of them have
web presences, Home Shopping club, QVC, Value Vision, etc. They sell a lot of
outdated computers (meaning computers that were sold 6 months ago in the
stores!).
Good luck,
June
Candise Flippin on fri 3 nov 00
Jim,
For the price you would like to stay under, I would suggest a used PC.
Things change so rapidly that those trying to keep up get ride of decent
machines. Some communities have a Computer Dealer that specializes in Used
& Recycled. I am not fond of the Compaq, Emachine etc route, because even
though they are cheap, they are very limited in the upgrade department. If
you can find a local reputable computer dealer that "builds their own
machines", thats the best. Ask them for the least amount of machine you need
based on how you will use it, and allow for ability to upgrade. (ie. you
may want the latest greatest motherboard, but you will not need the fastest
processor on the planet. This can save hundreds of dollars.) When your
needs grow you take the box back in and they put in what you need. (upgraded
processor, more memory, better video card, etc.) This approach reuses the
case, power supply, cd rom, modem, floppy drive, and in many cases the hard
drive.
Best of luck, Candise in San Diego
Caschneider@AOL.COM on fri 3 nov 00
I have to come out of the lurking position for this one...
I will never buy a Gateway again! When I had problems and needed a
techie-I'd have to pay to talk with them even though I was a "valued
costomer". After I had the computer for three years and I wanted to trade in,
(a big selling point...) they were willing to give me less than $300. for my
tower!!! No thanks!
....Just my two cents blurting out-sort-of like that Neimann-Marcus cookie
recipe!
Colleen
Colleen A. Schneider
849 South Connor Street
Salt Lake City, UT 84108
(801) 582-311
caschneider@aol.com
Snail Scott on fri 3 nov 00
Many towns have used-computer stores. these computers are often just
too slow to run the current games, but work as well as they ever did.
The prices are good, and the staff is often quite knowledgeable. For
netsurfing, put your $ into the modem instead.
-Snail
>At 03:15 AM 11/3/00 GMT, you wrote:
>>Hey all, I've decided I have to get my own computer to put up my pots for
>>sell on eBay. What's a decent used computer to buy these days? I'd like to
>>keep the price under $500.00 . I certainly don't want to have all of the
>>bells and whistles, just something to surf the net and put work on eBay. Any
>>thoughts on this? Jim
>>
>Amy Parker
>Lithonia, GA
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Norman van der Sluys on fri 3 nov 00
Please don't buy a used computer! What was true up until a couple of years ago is
no longer so - today's computers are much less expensive, more reliable, and much
more capable. A used computer is likely to be a dog nowadays, else it would not be
on the market.
One good source for information is Pricewatch. I am
partial to AMD K6-2 machines for performance and value. Pricewatch will list what
is on sale at what internet site. You might want to check around to see if others
have had experience with the particular vendor, tho. Some of these outfits consist
of a telephone number and not much else. They can lead you into a bait and switch
situation or, at the very least, long delays in delivering the merchandise. Caveat
emptor!
Candise Flippin wrote:
> Jim,
>
> For the price you would like to stay under, I would suggest a used PC.
> Things change so rapidly that those trying to keep up get ride of decent
> machines.
--
Norman van der Sluys
by the shore of Lake Michigan
NLudd@AOL.COM on fri 3 nov 00
In a message dated 11/3/00 1:54:02 AM, idigclay@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>Hey all, I've decided I have to get my own computer to put up my pots for
>sell on eBay. What's a decent used computer to buy these days? I'd like
>to
>keep the price under $500.00 . I certainly don't want to have all of the
>bells and whistles, just something to surf the net and put work on eBay.
>Any
>thoughts on this? Jim
Hi Jim
Under $500? Tight, but check out used iMacs, 266 or 333 mhz with an internal
56k modem (supports K56 flex and V.90). Plenty sell on ebay around that
price.
For potters the big plus is that HyperGlaze, the excellent glaze calculation
app and database by Richard Burkett (hyperglaze@aol.com) runs _only_ on the
Mac.
The Apple user interface makes for a fast learning curve and - many will
attest - more enjoyment in use and less pain fixing problems when they arise,
as they will! :-/
That's important - you may be using your computer more than your car, so make
sure you are really pleased with what you get... don't put up with less.
The cherry on the cake: your iMac can even read/write Windows files if you
have DataViz's MacLinkPlus Deluxe file compatibility software.
good luck!
Ned
- usual disclaimers, and I won't be drawn into any Mac vs Windows arguments!
george koller on fri 3 nov 00
Jim,
New computers are shipping with more memory, faster CPUs, more audio
features, and later versions of Windows installed, better CD ROM drives (Read &
Write). There are so many factors but I would encourage you to think of your time
to keep a system up to date versus having things installed and would also remind
you that a service agreement on a new computer can save you many days of
problems. Think of the nature of electronic equipment as a "bath-tub" curve with
problems occurring early because of the likely hood of a "flaky" component, and
late due to age on such items as your hard disk, crt tube life. A "settled in"
computer 6 MO to 24 MO old might be OK but one older than 2 years is not unlikely
to be ripe for this problem or that (especially if it has been in a rough
environment - i.e. dusty.)
Personally, after owning no less than some 8 of these things, and helping many
others I would not recommend a used one unless:
1. It is less than 12 months use
2. You know the history of the machine / or the owner etc.
3. You have some sort of support
4. You are saving some 30% or so over an equivalent new machine.
Also if you can get a Read and WRITE CD-Rom this can be excellent back-up for
all your files for a fraction what another back-up system will cost. Also great
for picture storage and etc.
That's my 0.02USD worth.
George
PS When I built my first computer in '78 I paid about $250 for a 2nd
8K memory board (and soldered it myself) - I remember telling my
wife "I would never need more than 16K for any work I could imagine".
Fortunately the wife still doesn't know about these things, and my new
computer now has 512M of memory. Wow.
Michael A. Turton on fri 3 nov 00
Lee Love wrote:
> Jim,
> My son picked up an Emachine at Best Buy and is happy with it.
> I think it cost around $500.00
>
>
I bought an EMachine. They are refurbished. If there is a problem, it might have
to
be sent back for repairs, which could take weeks. Their service is iffy at best.
You are better off paying a little more for a new product from a local supplier who
can help you with problems. My machine came with a hard drive problem and the
DVD-ROM no longer reads CDs, though it still reads DVDs.
Mike
Earl Brunner on fri 3 nov 00
Sorry, the Neiman-Marcus cookie recipe is an urban legend.
20 years ago it was the same recipe and Mrs.Fields Cookies.
I don't think you should be so hard on Gateway. The computer
business is very very competitive. I have heard from my
son who works for another Computer company in market
research that HP for example, even sells their computers at
a loss (making up the difference with their ink jet
cartridge costs). They do this to try and capture a larger
% of the market. With brand new computers 6 to 12 times
faster and bigger than your three year old computer selling
for under $800.00, how could you possibly expect them to
give you more than $300.00 for an obsolete (yes, no matter
what you paid for it originally, obsolete by today's
standards) computer?
My $2600.00 pentium III, 500 megahertz computer was worth
less than half of what I paid for it 6 months later. In
fact, even with 0% financing, I OWED more for the computer
than I could have bought it new for at that point.
Tech support is expensive.
Caschneider@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> I have to come out of the lurking position for this one...
> I will never buy a Gateway again! When I had problems and needed a
> techie-I'd have to pay to talk with them even though I was a "valued
> costomer". After I had the computer for three years and I wanted to trade in,
> (a big selling point...) they were willing to give me less than $300. for my
> tower!!! No thanks!
> ...Just my two cents blurting out-sort-of like that Neimann-Marcus cookie
> recipe!
>
> Colleen
>
> Colleen A. Schneider
> 849 South Connor Street
> Salt Lake City, UT 84108
> (801) 582-311
> caschneider@aol.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
tgschs10 on sat 4 nov 00
We have 9 computers at home and in our business - all Dells; wonderful
computers and best service around - 24 hour turn around - wide price range.
Tom Sawyer
tgschs10@msn.com
Janet Kaiser on sat 4 nov 00
Jim
I work on a second hand Mesh PC which I bought
off a friend for £150 when it was just under 2
years old and still had a couple of months
guarantee / warranty left on it.
It is a simple first generation 2 gig, 100 MHz,
Pentium with CD-ROM. The VDU, keyboard, mouse
were also included in the deal. The owner was
quite happy with it, just needed upgrading to a
mega-gig outfit for his photography fetish.
Retail prices have gone down even more since
then, so you should be able to find some good
deals too. Just ask around friends and family.
Also small retail and repair outfits. Our local
chap gives customers a trade-in price on new
systems and is happy to sell on what he has,
especially to students, low-income families and
other worthy causes. He even includes 1 year
warranty.
This little Mesh is more than enough for my
needs (e-mail, internet, publisher, word,
PageMaker, excel, access, acrobat, ftp,
PhotoShop plus many user files, images, web site
etc.) and the great part was... the previous
owner had ironed out all the teething problems!
It is as stable as anything. I won't tempt
providence by mentioning crashes... But touch
wood... Not to date (-:
I just had to buy a new fan (£5) this week and
if I wanted to hear anything, I would have to
install a sound card.
Compared to the £2000+ plus Time system which we
bought about the same time (never touch that
wretched company) which has done nothing but
crash, does not talk to the ISP for more than
half a dozen e-mails at a time, has a
dysfunctional DVD and otherwise has caused me a
great many hours of utter misery, I would repeat
the second hand option any day!
With all due respect, there is no comparison
between the service you get as a one-time,
small-time buyer and someone who works for a
company buying in hundreds of units. My fight
with Time (now over 18 months) has been hell and
they simply could not care less. They are
άδ+s***s! It is sitting in front of me...
Switched off and never used! It breaks my heart.
With the price of printers and scanners (even
digital cameras) coming down all the time, you
should be able to get fixed up with a whole
system if not within your $500 budget, then
pretty near. BTW unlike a PC, I would recommend
getting all these new, not second hand.
Of course, if I was starting out on investing in
a system, I would definitely buy a MAC. They are
much better... No two ways about it!
Hope this helps
Janet Kaiser - not affected by the flooding, but
feeling very sorry for the thousands who are all
over the UK... Where is all the rain coming
from? Steve Mills is growing webbed feet...
Don't believe his chassis story... Love a duck!
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
Jeanne Ormsby on sun 5 nov 00
I just happen to know the product manager for the Bluelight PC rather well
:) so I asked her to comment on their service, etc. Hope this helps.
Jeanne
>Return-Path:
>From: "Heidi Gibson"
>To: "Jeanne Ormsby"
>Subject: RE: What's a good, cheap computer??
>Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 15:21:09 -0800
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>Importance: Normal
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700
>
>Sure.. you can let them know that they can get the BL PC with 64MB memory
>(I'm assuming he'd seen the 32MB version) for $549.99 on bluelight.com, and
>service isn't provided through Kmart at all - we use DecisionOne, who
>provides Compaq's and PalmPilot's service, and warranty repair is done by
>the manufacturer, LG. So far we've had about a 2% return rate (industry std
>is 10-20%) so we don't seem to be having any quality problems. Regarding
>the $60 printer cable... that product, the PC Companion Kit, is really all
>about the 1-year extended service plans more than the printer cable, but we
>realized when we launched that we hadn't gotten in our printer cables in
>time so that was the only way we could sell it. We'll have good cheap
>standalone printer cables up on the site within the next week, and all Kmart
>stores carry them. We'll have 17" monitors up soon too, for $199.99. We
>give customers a $30 rebate if they buy the PC (32 or 64), monitor (15 or
>17) and a $49.99 Lexmark color jetprinter. We've done competitive analyis,
>and we are definitely the cheapest out there. But, if you're a power user
>and want a lot of RAM or hard drive (ours is 7.5GB, big enough for most home
>users), you should go with a different brand. We're really going after the
>entry-level market.
>
>Heidi
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jeanne Ormsby [mailto:jormsby@erols.com]
>Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2000 6:45 AM
>To: heidi@bluelight.com
>Subject: Re: What's a good, cheap computer??
>
>
>The pottery listserv has a thread going re low cost computers. You are
>welcome to comment if you want.
>
>Love,
>
>Mom
>
>
>
>
>
>>Return-Path:
>>Approved-By: melpots2@PCLINK.COM
>>Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2000 23:42:14 -0800
>>Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>>Sender: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>>From: Lee Jaffe
>>Subject: Re: What's a good, cheap computer??
>>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>>
>>I'll add my two cents. I buy computers for my job, about 50-60 systems
>>each year, about half Macs and half Wintel machines. I can't say enough
>>good about the quality of the iMac line and some of the earlier PowerMac
>>models: well-built and well-designed and a pretty good deal used if you
>>can find one from a reliable source. Some models are upgradeable. I'm
>>running a used PowerMac 7500 with a G3 upgrade card and a 4GB drive
>>which cost me $500. When this seems too slow, I'll spend a few hundred
>>dollars to upgrade to a G4 and more memory. A new or used iMac, esp. the
>>last year's models, is also a good deal, with a built-in modem, speakers
>and
>>pretty good monitor. For information about used Mac models and upgrades,
>>see http://www.everymac.com/ For a good mail order source for used
>>Macs see http://www.smalldog.com/
>>
>>For PCs, we also buy Dells and I recommend them with a bit of a caveat.
>I've
>>had 2 people come back to me unhappy with Dell and with me for recommending
>>them. My understanding is that Dell makes its money with business
>customers
>>and though they are rated highest for service, home buyers may not get as
>>much attention. Otherwise, after buying 200+ of these machines and dealing
>>with them a lot, I'm a happy repeat customer. After one bad run-in with
>>Gateway I've never gone back and I've heard a lot of comment that this was
>>a good decision. My experience with Dell is that they ship replacements
>>immediately, often using overnight service. My brother had problems with
>>his monitor and talked to their customer service around midnight. Next
>>morning there was a FedEx guy on his doorstep with a new monitor. I've
>>had similar experiences with them all along. Most other companies make
>>you send back the bad unit and wait until they've received it and tested
>>it before shipping a replacement. Dell isn't cheap but I think their
>prices
>>are worth it.
>>
>>I couldn't imagine having to resolve a problem or get something repaired
>>through KMart, or most chain stores for that matter. Assume that something
>>is going to go wrong within the life of your computer and figure that part
>>of the price is being about to get that taken care of somewhere down the
>line.
>>Also, the BlueLight special has too little memory and they want to charge
>you
>>$60 for the $10 cable that goes with the free printer. That should tell
>you
>>something right up front.
>>
>>If you are going online, the most important component is going to be your
>>connection. A really fast and expensive computer connected to a 56K
>>modem is still going to be slow. No use buying the hottest newest computer
>>to use with a modem. Buy last year's model and put a lot of memory in it
>>and put the money you save towards buying some cool parts like a digital
>>camera.
>>
>>-- Lee Jaffe
>>
>>___________________________________________________________________________
>___
>>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>>
>
>
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