Jennie Chien on mon 4 dec 00
Could anyone talk about their experience with getting a good gold
luster?
I have had mixed results.
I've also had to substitute silver carbonate for silver nitrate (can't
get it easily anymore and my clay center won't special order it), and I
double the amount in the recipe. I use two clear recipe bases. One is
very fluid and can be taken out at 1500 F and another that is less so
and is higher fire to 1750 F.
However, sometimes a THICK application works better, sometimes a THIN
one works better. I've had glazes that were months old and still
worked. I've had newly-mixed glazes that didn't fire so well. The kiln
we use is soft brick 3.4 cubic ft, one side burner, propane fired.
Thanks,
Jennie Chien
Bill Buckner on fri 24 jan 03
Can anyone address the safety of using gold luster to line a drinking
vessel? I am negotiating a commission to create a substantial altar set
(chalice, paten, cruets, tray, lavabo bowl & pitcher, brazier and
boat). The client, an Episcopal priest, wants the chalice lined with
gold. Now, I realize it is not going to be used for mass consumption
(at least not by a single drinker!). And the wine to be used in it is
acidic. But, I have never seen any safety information on this stuff.
Any information or references will be appreciated.
Cheers,
-Bill
--
-=billBUCKNER
-=atlanta
"Life is too important to be taken seriously."
-Oscar Wilde
John Rodgers on fri 24 jan 03
Bill, I had a commission once to make a gold plated figurine. The piece
was 18" tall and was made of slipcast porcelain fired to cone 6. The
finish was to be 24 carat gold cladding. That was a real trick, but I
got it done. A porcelain figurine with an overcoat of real live 24
carat gold!!
If that is what you need to meet the priests needs, you can get the gold
dissolved in an organic solvent so it can be applied to the surface for
firing. But bear in mind that this is real gold we are talking about,
and the cost will reflect the cost of gold on the market the day the
solution is made. As I recall, at the time, I bought 10-12 fluid
ounces of the gold solution and it cost me in the neighborhood of $1000.
The price of the solution was based on the price of gold on the market
the day my order was filled. This is vastly different I think than
lusters. It's the real McCoy. And it tells also. Real gold has a very
different look. I sprayed it on with an airbrush, and it looks like
caramel until it is fired. Then it goes gold, and you know that it is.
No question.
One thing. It is HIGHLY TOXIC!!!!! My bottle came with a big, black,
skull and crossbones on it with the word "POISON" on it in big bold RED
letters. Abolutely wear a mask when spraying, have an active ventelation
system working to draw the fumes away from you, and do not stay in the
building during the initial part of the firing when the solvent is
driven off. The fumes will kill your liver. No need to be afraid of it,
just observe the necessary or prescribed safety precautions. When done,
you have a coating of a benign, noble metal on the piece. A final
caution. Real gold, being a metal, is going to have a very different
shrink rate so stress of the ceramic materials will be a factor and
cracking could occur. And, the material is applied to surfaces already
fired to maturity. This gold material itself does not fire very hot.
The gold solution I got for my project came from Matthey-Johnson. I
can't remember where they were located but you probably can find them on
the net or through the library.
Good luck with your project. And BTW, you might want to re-negotiate
your fee based on using real gold. Using real gold may increase the
desirability in the eye of the beholder, and make payment of a higher
fee worthwhile to the purchaser.
Good Luck,
John Rodgers
Birmingham, AL
Bill Buckner wrote:
>Can anyone address the safety of using gold luster to line a drinking
>vessel? I am negotiating a commission to create a substantial altar set
>(chalice, paten, cruets, tray, lavabo bowl & pitcher, brazier and
>boat). The client, an Episcopal priest, wants the chalice lined with
>gold. Now, I realize it is not going to be used for mass consumption
>(at least not by a single drinker!). And the wine to be used in it is
>acidic. But, I have never seen any safety information on this stuff.
>
>Any information or references will be appreciated.
>
>Cheers,
>-Bill
>
>--
> -=billBUCKNER
> -=atlanta
>
> "Life is too important to be taken seriously."
> -Oscar Wilde
>
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>
>
>
Snail Scott on fri 24 jan 03
At 09:52 AM 1/24/03 -0500, you wrote:
>Can anyone address the safety of using gold luster to line a drinking
>vessel? [altar set]
Not to worry - gold luster is an old favorite
even on commercial functional ware, and not
really toxic even as it wears off.
-Snail
Jim Tabor on fri 24 jan 03
I used to get 100g orders of gold @ 385 per. for screen printing. Looked
like brown tar. Fires to a 23K gold surface. Platinum looks the same and
was priced the same. At a conference of The Society of Glass and Ceramic
Decorators (geared to printed tons per day), I believe it was the
session on gold by Johnson-Mathey, that gave the info on gold process. I
still have an article (somewhere) on the manufacturing process and
application that was published in ScreenPrint mag. Lots of products for
different effects and applications (for banding machines, printing, and
brushing applications). I recall there are 5 oils in the binder and
either 1 or 3% gold with 97+% oils. Organics burn out without ash and
the gold film is 23 karat gold. Burnout is really smelly and should have
good ventilation and you should avoid the vapors.
Applied and fired properly, the gold is a thin film. The gold is soft
and will not wear well. I am not sure if additional thickness results
with additional applications but it is reasonable to think it would
build up to a thicker layer of gold. A student applied some of my ink
(10 years old) last week on a test pot with good results. The
application was brushed on thicker than I would have printed. The
recommended print is through a 300 mesh screen. I have also used the red
colored gold for brushing (Hanovia product) and don't see a difference
in the fired result. I haven't studied those results under the
microscope as with printed projects. I can trail on some of the ink to
test a thick application and see how that works if needed. I don't think
it works like other luster's that get crusty when applied too thick.
I doubt if the gold leaches out like other metals. Ron and John may know
from their testing. My experience has been only for decorative surfaces.
My older glasses with gold rims have shown a loss of gold and there is
the risk of abrasion to a surface as soft as 23 karat gold. Think of
including a disclaimer when you take on a commission using gold.
I hope this helps. I can look up info on gold it if needed. I am certain
the article mentioned is at school and I am home now.
The gloss will be affected by the glaze it is applied onto.
Jim Tabor
iandol on sat 25 jan 03
Dear Bill Buckner,
If you are using Liquid Bright Gold Lustres, per Hanovia or Johnsom =
Matthey, the metal which is deposited is close to 24 K Gold.
I recollect that this is insoluble in all weak and strong acids except =
for Aqua Regia. So I would not expect a lot of trouble from Altar Wine.
Why not write to the manufacturer for a definitive statement?
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis
Tom's E-mail on mon 27 jan 03
I made a set of wine glasses and several water glasses over a year ago and
put gold on the inside; quite nice. I drink wine and fruit juices without
concern. There my favorite glasses. Would caution about putting in a
diswasher on a regular basis. This is the same gold that is on fine china
and shouldn't be toxic.
Tom Sawyer
tsawyer@cfl.rr.com
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