mel jacobson on tue 12 dec 00
one of the most dreadful realities for me, when
i went back to school at 55, was the observation of almost universal
lack of dedication to intense study.
can you believe this:
i was accused of being a `CURVE RAISER`.
i did so much work that it made them look bad.
shit, a curve raiser in grad school....you see, they sorta knew
i was not going to accept the mfa....this was all for me.
it was beyond their scope of understanding.
i was very interested in the `new language of art`...the
critique was why i was there. i can do art in a barn, all alone.
i needed them...but, got very little. my teachers were brilliant.
(but, not very tough.)
most of the students wanted to talk about their art.
talk, talk, talk. write a few paragraphs.
their metaphors.
their images.
their personal grief.
their menstrual cycles
gender issues.
the death of redwoods.
all predicated on not doing art. not painting.
not making pots. but, talking, for hours.
students complained about the `work load`.
`why do we have to read about milton avery, he was so dumb?`
damn, if you do not understand milton avery, don't pick up
a brush for the rest of your life.
going to grad school should be the greatest gift that a person
can ever get. it should be total immersion. total.
if one is not dedicated to that...get the hell out of the way.
i would have failed half of them...kicked their asses into the
real world...but, they all graduated. and you wonder why the
mfa shows are often so bad.
art is about personal dedication. it is work. talented folks are a
dime a dozen. workers are rare as diamonds. a worker with talent
is, and becomes genius.
mel
FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
Emily Reynolds on tue 12 dec 00
Dear Mel,
This is my virgin trip on the discussion list. But I enjoyed your perceptions
of a late return to school. I am sort of a Rip Van Winkle potter, having returned
to clay and to school at 62, trying to figure out what I missed since 1978. I
think I may have forgotten more than I ever knew, but the important thing is
rediscovering the joy that I had lost.
I had run my own studio and classes with 40 - 50 students a semester, had
apprentices, co-owned a ceramic supply co., etc. , while raising 2 kids.
Overloading my circuits caused big time burnout and I thought I would never come
back.
Now, I am having a ball. Much of what you say is true of the the university
environment, and students. There are pros and cons. I wanted the experience of
crits, too because it wasn't done back when I was in art school. I was also
accused of causing a distortion in the grade curve when I started in a beginner
ceramic class. I pointed out that I was auditing. I am "advanced" now. I love
working hard at it, too. Feel fully alive again.
The terrific thing is that in our state schools it's free tuition when you are
over 60! One of the few perks of getting on in years. The equipment, studios open
mostly 24-7. Comraderie, materials & assistance when I need it, stimulus,
structure to get moving again. They will probably have to cart me out of there
someday.
So while I am here, I have two questions: Can anyone out there tell me what
"T-Material" is? It is frequently listed as though it is a clay body, perhaps akin
to porcelain in books I've been reading on English potters, and last month it was
also mentioned in Ceramics Monthly without further explanation. I am curious and
have not seen it listed in an index.
The other question: Does anyone have an address for Norwegian potter, Arne
Ase? Or know of an available copy of his out-of-print book "Watercolors on
Porcelain?"
I find getting 100's of emails at a time a little wearing, but am enjoying the
exploration for now. Thanks for providing an avenue to dialogue. I feel like I am
rejoining the right tribe. Emily Reynolds
mel jacobson wrote:
> one of the most dreadful realities for me, when
> i went back to school at 55, was the observation of almost universal
> lack of dedication to intense study.
>
> can you believe this:
>
> i was accused of being a `CURVE RAISER`.
> i did so much work that it made them look bad.
> shit, a curve raiser in grad school....you see, they sorta knew
> i was not going to accept the mfa....this was all for me.
> it was beyond their scope of understanding.
> i was very interested in the `new language of art`...the
> critique was why i was there. i can do art in a barn, all alone.
> i needed them...but, got very little. my teachers were brilliant.
> (but, not very tough.)
>
> most of the students wanted to talk about their art.
> talk, talk, talk. write a few paragraphs.
>
> their metaphors.
> their images.
> their personal grief.
> their menstrual cycles
> gender issues.
> the death of redwoods.
>
> all predicated on not doing art. not painting.
> not making pots. but, talking, for hours.
>
> students complained about the `work load`.
>
> `why do we have to read about milton avery, he was so dumb?`
> damn, if you do not understand milton avery, don't pick up
> a brush for the rest of your life.
>
> going to grad school should be the greatest gift that a person
> can ever get. it should be total immersion. total.
> if one is not dedicated to that...get the hell out of the way.
> i would have failed half of them...kicked their asses into the
> real world...but, they all graduated. and you wonder why the
> mfa shows are often so bad.
>
> art is about personal dedication. it is work. talented folks are a
> dime a dozen. workers are rare as diamonds. a worker with talent
> is, and becomes genius.
> mel
>
> FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Thom Mead on tue 12 dec 00
Words from Mel
make me wish all
grad school profs were of his philosophy
Open your own school, Mel.
Build it and we will come!!!
diane in ga
(Can you offer an MFA in etching?
I'll be there!)
>From: mel jacobson
>Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: mfa/other side
>Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 07:20:54 -0600
>
>one of the most dreadful realities for me, when
>i went back to school at 55, was the observation of almost universal
>lack of dedication to intense study.
>
>can you believe this:
>
>i was accused of being a `CURVE RAISER`.
>i did so much work that it made them look bad.
>shit, a curve raiser in grad school....you see, they sorta knew
>i was not going to accept the mfa....this was all for me.
>it was beyond their scope of understanding.
>i was very interested in the `new language of art`...the
>critique was why i was there. i can do art in a barn, all alone.
>i needed them...but, got very little. my teachers were brilliant.
>(but, not very tough.)
>
>most of the students wanted to talk about their art.
>talk, talk, talk. write a few paragraphs.
>
>their metaphors.
>their images.
>their personal grief.
>their menstrual cycles
>gender issues.
>the death of redwoods.
>
>all predicated on not doing art. not painting.
>not making pots. but, talking, for hours.
>
>students complained about the `work load`.
>
>`why do we have to read about milton avery, he was so dumb?`
> damn, if you do not understand milton avery, don't pick up
>a brush for the rest of your life.
>
>going to grad school should be the greatest gift that a person
>can ever get. it should be total immersion. total.
>if one is not dedicated to that...get the hell out of the way.
>i would have failed half of them...kicked their asses into the
>real world...but, they all graduated.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
Marcia Selsor on tue 12 dec 00
very well said mel.
Marcia Selsor, retired Professor Emerita MSU-B
mel jacobson wrote:
>
> one of the most dreadful realities for me, when
> i went back to school at 55, was the observation of almost universal
> lack of dedication to intense study.
>
> can you believe this:
>
> i was accused of being a `CURVE RAISER`.
> i did so much work that it made them look bad.
> shit, a curve raiser in grad school....you see, they sorta knew
> i was not going to accept the mfa....this was all for me.
> it was beyond their scope of understanding.
> i was very interested in the `new language of art`...the
> critique was why i was there. i can do art in a barn, all alone.
> i needed them...but, got very little. my teachers were brilliant.
> (but, not very tough.)
>
> most of the students wanted to talk about their art.
> talk, talk, talk. write a few paragraphs.
>
> their metaphors.
> their images.
> their personal grief.
> their menstrual cycles
> gender issues.
> the death of redwoods.
>
> all predicated on not doing art. not painting.
> not making pots. but, talking, for hours.
>
> students complained about the `work load`.
>
> `why do we have to read about milton avery, he was so dumb?`
> damn, if you do not understand milton avery, don't pick up
> a brush for the rest of your life.
>
> going to grad school should be the greatest gift that a person
> can ever get. it should be total immersion. total.
> if one is not dedicated to that...get the hell out of the way.
> i would have failed half of them...kicked their asses into the
> real world...but, they all graduated. and you wonder why the
> mfa shows are often so bad.
>
> art is about personal dedication. it is work. talented folks are a
> dime a dozen. workers are rare as diamonds. a worker with talent
> is, and becomes genius.
> mel
>
> FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
> http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Tuscany2001.html
Lorraine Pierce on wed 13 dec 00
Re;returning to clay and a free tuition state school after 60. What state
did you find this senior paradise in?
Lori in New Port Richey, Fl.
Jeff Campana on thu 14 dec 00
Emily,
Glad to hear of your joys in acadamia. I have found that the older people in my
school have enriched the experience a lot. We have a few here in Whitewater, and the
are a joy to be around/learn from, and I bet you are the same. This whole
curve-pusher thing is starting to salt me a bit though.
Depending on the viewpoint, I think being more experienced that peers can be seen as a
blessing. I started college with 4 years of experience and a firm grasp of forming
techniques. I was forced into ceramics I, and pissed a lot of people off.... at
first. My higher level of experience "Made them look bad" but also lit a fire under
their ass to learn. Teachers will tell you that they hope for experienced potters,
and place them in beginning classes deliberately to push the other students. Now that
my beginning class is the advanced class, my peers are thankful for that fire I lit,
because it got them to come in more, learn more, try harder, enjoy their success.
Your presence in that school is not only a blessing for you, but for everyone else as
well. They will all gain from you raising the curve.
Best wishes,
Jeff Campana
Emily Reynolds wrote:
> Dear Mel,
> This is my virgin trip on the discussion list. But I enjoyed your perceptions
> of a late return to school. I am sort of a Rip Van Winkle potter, having returned
> to clay and to school at 62, trying to figure out what I missed since 1978. I
> think I may have forgotten more than I ever knew, but the important thing is
> rediscovering the joy that I had lost.
> I had run my own studio and classes with 40 - 50 students a semester, had
> apprentices, co-owned a ceramic supply co., etc. , while raising 2 kids.
> Overloading my circuits caused big time burnout and I thought I would never come
> back.
> Now, I am having a ball. Much of what you say is true of the the university
> environment, and students. There are pros and cons. I wanted the experience of
> crits, too because it wasn't done back when I was in art school. I was also
> accused of causing a distortion in the grade curve when I started in a beginner
> ceramic class. I pointed out that I was auditing. I am "advanced" now. I love
> working hard at it, too. Feel fully alive again.
> The terrific thing is that in our state schools it's free tuition when you are
> over 60! One of the few perks of getting on in years. The equipment, studios open
> mostly 24-7. Comraderie, materials & assistance when I need it, stimulus,
> structure to get moving again. They will probably have to cart me out of there
> someday.
>
> So while I am here, I have two questions: Can anyone out there tell me what
> "T-Material" is? It is frequently listed as though it is a clay body, perhaps akin
> to porcelain in books I've been reading on English potters, and last month it was
> also mentioned in Ceramics Monthly without further explanation. I am curious and
> have not seen it listed in an index.
>
> The other question: Does anyone have an address for Norwegian potter, Arne
> Ase? Or know of an available copy of his out-of-print book "Watercolors on
> Porcelain?"
>
> I find getting 100's of emails at a time a little wearing, but am enjoying the
> exploration for now. Thanks for providing an avenue to dialogue. I feel like I am
> rejoining the right tribe. Emily Reynolds
>
> mel jacobson wrote:
>
> > one of the most dreadful realities for me, when
> > i went back to school at 55, was the observation of almost universal
> > lack of dedication to intense study.
> >
> > can you believe this:
> >
> > i was accused of being a `CURVE RAISER`.
> > i did so much work that it made them look bad.
> > shit, a curve raiser in grad school....you see, they sorta knew
> > i was not going to accept the mfa....this was all for me.
> > it was beyond their scope of understanding.
> > i was very interested in the `new language of art`...the
> > critique was why i was there. i can do art in a barn, all alone.
> > i needed them...but, got very little. my teachers were brilliant.
> > (but, not very tough.)
> >
> > most of the students wanted to talk about their art.
> > talk, talk, talk. write a few paragraphs.
> >
> > their metaphors.
> > their images.
> > their personal grief.
> > their menstrual cycles
> > gender issues.
> > the death of redwoods.
> >
> > all predicated on not doing art. not painting.
> > not making pots. but, talking, for hours.
> >
> > students complained about the `work load`.
> >
> > `why do we have to read about milton avery, he was so dumb?`
> > damn, if you do not understand milton avery, don't pick up
> > a brush for the rest of your life.
> >
> > going to grad school should be the greatest gift that a person
> > can ever get. it should be total immersion. total.
> > if one is not dedicated to that...get the hell out of the way.
> > i would have failed half of them...kicked their asses into the
> > real world...but, they all graduated. and you wonder why the
> > mfa shows are often so bad.
> >
> > art is about personal dedication. it is work. talented folks are a
> > dime a dozen. workers are rare as diamonds. a worker with talent
> > is, and becomes genius.
> > mel
> >
> > FROM MINNETONKA, MINNESOTA, USA
> > http://www.pclink.com/melpots (website)
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Jonathan Kaplan on thu 14 dec 00
I'm staying out of this thread for many reasons, but this caught my eye
> I was forced into ceramics I, and pissed a lot of people off.... at
>first.........
What does this mean?
Forced into ceramics? Someone hold a fettling knife to your throat?
Threaten to change the direction of rotation of your wheel? No choice
involved in your decision?
Please clarify.
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan, president
Ceramic Design Group
PO Box 775112
Steamboat Springs CO 80477
voice and fax 970 879-9139
jonathan@csn,net
http://www.sni.net/ceramicdesign
Plant Location:
1280 13th Street Unit 13
Steamboat Springs CO 80487
(please use this address for all deliveries via UPS, comman carrier, FEd
Ex, etc.)
Jeff Campana on thu 14 dec 00
Sorry for the confusion...
What was said was Forced into ceramics I(one), or beginning ceramics, where I
really did not belong... At first I did not understand why, my work was
comparable to the advanced students, but now i know. It was to push the other
students.
Hope this helps,
Jeff
Jonathan Kaplan wrote:
> I'm staying out of this thread for many reasons, but this caught my eye
>
> > I was forced into ceramics I, and pissed a lot of people off.... at
> >first.........
>
> What does this mean?
>
> Forced into ceramics? Someone hold a fettling knife to your throat?
> Threaten to change the direction of rotation of your wheel? No choice
> involved in your decision?
>
> Please clarify.
>
> Jonathan
>
> Jonathan Kaplan, president
> Ceramic Design Group
> PO Box 775112
> Steamboat Springs CO 80477
> voice and fax 970 879-9139
> jonathan@csn,net
> http://www.sni.net/ceramicdesign
>
> Plant Location:
> 1280 13th Street Unit 13
> Steamboat Springs CO 80487
> (please use this address for all deliveries via UPS, comman carrier, FEd
> Ex, etc.)
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Snail Scott on thu 14 dec 00
At 06:35 AM 12/14/00 -0700, you wrote:
>I'm staying out of this thread for many reasons, but this caught my eye
>
>> I was forced into ceramics I, and pissed a lot of people off.... at
>>first.........
>
>
>What does this mean?
>
>Forced into ceramics? Someone hold a fettling knife to your throat?
>Threaten to change the direction of rotation of your wheel? No choice
>involved in your decision?
>
>Please clarify.
>
>Jonathan
>
I think the post said "forced into Ceramics I"; that
would be the beginning class, as opposed to Ceramics II
or Ceramics III, etc. Many colleges won't let you
enroll in an upper-level course without completing the
prerequisites, regardless of skill.
-Snail
Vivian Spencer on thu 21 dec 00
Dear Emily,
As another latecomer to ceramics, I can echo all you say!
Vivian
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