Steve Mills on fri 15 dec 00

> My friend's problem was, he respected the
>"professional opinion" of a bonifide "art professor". The arrogant twit
>in the ivy tower. Anyone can be a twit.
>
It is well for those of us who teach to remember the old saw "those who
can, do, those who can't, teach". not completely true, as I have had
some truly inspirational teachers, but I have also met more than my fair
share of twits!

--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK

Jim Chandler on fri 15 dec 00

To paraphrase Vince: all of us have an artist INSIDE, and for many that
artist doesn't have the chance to get out.
Yes!
Writing as one who's made a living as a decorative artist for years and
years, now slowly and carefully inching into clay - as one who's been
struggling to get out from under the big scary shadow of those who said
that whatever I did it wasn't "real" (yikes how real does it have to
be?), as one who struggles on and joyously watches the living art
emerge, in whatever form it takes - thankfully there are so many
surprises, - I want to share a tool I was introduced to, a workbook
called "The Artist's Way" and its successor, "The Artist's Way at Work"
by Julia Cameron et al. These books have exercises to awaken,
validate, strengthen your artist self. There is no "us" and "them" -
we're all creative on the inside.
Here's to the artist INSIDE!
Laura Chandler
Kensington MD

Thom Mead on fri 15 dec 00

Mel and Vince and I are all in the same business--we introduce potential
artists to their possible potential mode of expression, and
give those potential artists just as much as we humanly can!

I have a friend who is one of the most amazing painters working in the U.S.
right now. Sadly, he had a rough experience with teaching. His students
adored him and his methods. They learned a lot, all learning to be little
Raphaels over their 4 year collge career.

The problem cam about then they attempted to express themselves in an
original fashion, outside the methods of expression so skillfully taught
them by their mentor. Most never learned to be original.

This always made me sad because this guy was such an incredible teacher for
me as a 30-something year old. But for those young guys, it was awfully hard
for them to break away from his influence.

After a certain amount of time, he stopped teaching. He still influences me
to this day, which is okay because I learned things from him long after my
career in art began.

Some teachers are so powerful it is very difficult (if not impossible) for
the student to ever find an original voice.

I have to say in 30+ years in art, this person is the only one I've ever
seen who actually was this powerful an influence on imagery.
The individual voice has to be respected when training artists.

diane in GA


>From: vince pitelka
>Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: art and learning
>Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 21:22:02 -0600
>
> > if art is born in us, well then, i have wasted my entire
> > adult life trying to teach art to people.
>
>
>Ahhhhh . . . . Mel, Mel, Mel. Of course you knew damn well what I meant,
>but you make some very good points in your post.
>
>What I said is that there is an artist inside all of us. INSIDE is the
>operative word here, along with the assumption that artist simply means
>someone who makes art (without any qualitative reference). For most
>people,
>the artist never gets a chance to get out. The reason for that is that the
>artist inside has no training at all, and most people are very self
>conscious about letting the untrained artist out, which is a real shame.
>No
>one should ever be hesitant about expressing themselves artistically,
>regardless of their knowledge or skill level.


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

Wood Jeanne on fri 15 dec 00

Hi,
Vince, I liked your post a lot.

I've taught art to every grade level from pre-school,
at one time or other.

Almost all kids love art, until about the 4th grade.
Then they seperate themselves into "good artists"
and "I-can't-draw-I'm-bad-at-art". (There is actually
a developmental stage around this time.) I seldom
hear their classroom teachers say hurtful things about
student's art, but it's hard to keep peers from
insulting each other, or the kids from insulting
themselves. (Some of which is an unwritten social
rule requiring modesty).

I am currently teaching art to a population of kids
who have had major problems within society. I point
out the good things about every kids work and try to
include objective, but positive, information about
design, etc. (rather than just: "I love it, it's
good"). But it is still a -constant- struggle to get
them to accept the artist in themselves when they
see their neighbor sitting next to them doing (for
example) a realistic rendering of a horse.

Although one may see & point out different artistic
aspects they may have, such as an intuitive ability
with color, or design, or three dimensional art, or
ideas. Many seem to consider artistic talent as only
realistic drawings.

I try to combat this in a variety of ways, but it is
certainlly a constant challenge.

Regards,
Jeanne W.
(Looking forward to the day I DON'T hear "I suck" in
class.)

>
> --- vince pitelka wrote:
> > > if art is born in us, well then, i have
> > wasted my entire
> > > adult life trying to teach art to people.
> >
> >
> > Ahhhhh . . . . Mel, Mel, Mel. Of course you knew
> > damn well what I meant,
> > but you make some very good points in your post.
> >
> > What I said is that there is an artist inside all
> of
> > us. INSIDE is the
> > operative word here, along with the assumption
> that
> > artist simply means
> > someone who makes art (without any qualitative
> > reference). For most people,
> > the artist never gets a chance to get out. The
> > reason for that is that the
> > artist inside has no training at all, and most
> > people are very self
> > conscious about letting the untrained artist out,
> > which is a real shame. No
> > one should ever be hesitant about expressing
> > themselves artistically,
> > regardless of their knowledge or skill level.
> >
> > People don't need any training at all to be an
> > artist. But generally they
> > need training and practice (or just lots of
> > practice) to be a good artist.
> > It helps enormously to be exposed to the art of
> the
> > past and present, to
> > compare your work to that of others, and to learn
> a
> > broad diversity of
> > methods in order to select those that are best to
> > express one's own
> > narrative content.
> >
> > > i think artistic genius is born in a few people,
> > music, painting,
> > > dance, sculpture etc. etc. in the main stream
> of
> > culture, art
> > > is something that can be learned and enhances
> our
> > daily lives.
> >
> > Yes, and learning art is simply the process of
> > revealing and training the
> > artistic inclinations which we all have inside us,
> > and which most of us have
> > suppressed.
> >
> > > i was not born to be an artist. far from it.
> > father a factory worker
> > > with a 5th grade education. mother a west
> > virginia girl of simple
> > > origin. no history of art in our family.
> >
> > I think that many of the most productive and
> > imaginative artists in our
> > culture come from a similar background. They are
> > often the ones who emerge
> > with real gusto as artists, because until they do
> > finally emerge, their
> > desire to express themselves artistically has been
> > discouraged or denied.
> >
> > > vince should be a mechanic in california.
> >
> > Actually, when I became a mechanic I was rebelling
> > against my parents.
> >
> > > i have learned art by being a bulldog....grab
> > tight and don't let go.
> > > for most of us, that is the only way.
> >
> > That is true, and I wish kids would grab tight and
> > not let hold, despite the
> > discouragement they get from parents and peers and
> > from elementary school
> > techers who don't really have a clue about kids
> and
> > art. You made a big
> > impact on kids in high school, but I wish there
> were
> > more elementary school
> > teachers with your savy about kids and art.
> > Best wishes -
> > - Vince
> >
> > Vince Pitelka
> > Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
> > 615/597-5376
> > Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> > 615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
> > Appalachian Center for Crafts
> > Tennessee Technological University
> > 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> > http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
> >
> >
>

__________________________________________________
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Lizacat29@AOL.COM on fri 15 dec 00

In a message dated 12/15/00 6:25:54 AM Central Standard Time,
vpitelka@DEKALB.NET writes:


> despite the
> discouragement they get from parents and peers and from elementary school
> techers who don't really have a clue about kids and art. You made a big
> impact on kids in high school, but I wish there were more elementary school
> teachers with your savy about kids and art.
>

Ok, I am a fourth grade teacher so I can't let this one go by. Please don't
lump every elementary teacher together...we're a group of individuals...I do
have a clue about kids and art. Being an artist myself, certainly try to
recognize and nurture the artists and to infuse arts into all areas of
learning. But I am not alone. Yes, there are the old style teachers who
won't allow doodling on the margins or answers that aren't in the answer
book. Our school is moving toward a model called A+ in which subjects are
taught using all the arts. Children may have their social studies lesson in
drama class or math in music. Art is celebrated as both an effective
modality for learning for many kids but also a completely necessary component
of a full well-rounded life. Current brain research, the theory of multiple
intelligences...all these things fit in with the importance of the arts to
thought and learning and becoming fully human. This is what's going on in
education now...update yourself...visit a school...volunteer to demonstrate
pottery or teach a class. Your view of elementary education is based on your
own experience, and things have changed drastically .
My class this year is amazingly full of some of the most creative kids I've
every had. They drive me nuts...they hum, they whistle, they doodle on the
backs of their papers between spelling words on the tests, and every other
piece of paper in view, they lose their homework and their boots and their
lunch tickets but remember to bring me clay sculptures and drawings and
cards. Incredible...the class is a zoo when they have to do

Jeff Campana on sat 16 dec 00

Ruthe.

Great post. You are obviously a great parent, and very supportive. You remind me
of my mother. I found a writing project recently from 1st grade that said" when I
grow up I want to make things" So i must have been like Hailey. There is one
minor problem, however.

"We've told her that unless her art
project was being graded, there is no right or wrong way to do art."

I would say to up the ante here. Even if it will be graded, there is still no
right or wrong way to do art. At such a young age, grades are trivial. They are
just a way of telling you, the parent, how she's doing in school. They have no
bearing on what college she gets into or anything else like that. I would tell
her not to sacrifice her creativity for the sake of a stubborn teacher. teaching
her this at a young age will ensure a higher level of overall self-worth.
Besides, comprimising expression for grades is counterproductive, and wrong. She
should do her own thing, regardless of what teachers say. trust me, learning this
early has made me the happy, well-adjusted guy I am today.

Sincerely,

Jeff Campana

Ruth McDonough wrote:

> WOW I wish I had someone like you for my 10 year old daughter! She has had
> some horrible experiences with art "teachers". My husband and I have
> encouraged her to do everything HER way. We've told her that unless her art
> project was being graded, there is no right or wrong way to do art. From the
> time she was little she had a bend toward drawing, painting, paper mache,
> clay...(We like to say ANYTHING is Hailey's medium!) You'd be amazed at the
> teachers who told her she was doing it WRONG! (of course Mom marches her
> butt into school and informs them that as far as art is concern there's no
> way she can be wrong)! We even had one teacher who, we were sure, was
> jealous of Hailey's abilities. She would grab the pen/pencil away from
> Hailey and say, "No! Like this!" and draw on her picture!! For a while
> Hailey started the "I suck" mantra. Her dad and I sat her down and told her
> that from the time she could HOLD a pencil, she was drawing. For her, art is
> life. I can't understand it because art doesn't come from my soul...but for
> my daughter it is what drives her...If only more teachers understood like you
> do.
>
> I do have to say that we've had a few teachers that told us, "keep Hailey
> drawing!" In fact her second grade teacher (who was a musician) had a
> beautiful painting Hailey had done and kept it!! She said, "I have to have
> it so I can say, I KNEW HER WHEN!"
>
> Keep doing what you do!
>
> Ruthe
> Where the snow melted before the kids could see it!
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

Anne Ruthven on sat 16 dec 00

Vince, I just forwarded your whole post (and the quote from Jeanne) to a
friend.
As a preface, I said:
"...the longer quote that follows is the best explanation for
abstract art I've ever read or heard. I certainly wish I had been able
to
hear this so succinctly and eloquently a long time ago. (And then,
again, thinking more about it, perhaps [various teachers] did
say it and I just couldn't take it in.)"

Thank you very much.

Anne Ruthven
Bandera, Texas

vince pitelka wrote:
> The Ancient Greeks aligned pictorial realism with truth and
> beauty and knowledge and pretty much all that is good - that is Classical
> humanism. The, in the Italian Rennaisance Classical humanism was reborn as
> Christian humanism, again tied to the ideal of beauty associated with
> pictorial realism, especially in figurative form. So we are fighting that
> to this day. It is important for students to understand that worldwide
> through history pictorial realism is the anomaly, not the norm. People have
> always abstracted and interpreted reality very freely, and thousands of
> years ago artists were doing non-objective abstraction as sophisticated as
> anything being done today.
>
> When dealing with kids, the music/art/abstraction analogy works great. Ever
> since birth we develop a comfortable familiarity with instrumental music -
> non-objective abstract compositions of pitch, tone, volume, rhythm,
> repetition, etc. We do not demand that there be a recognizeable story, or
> identifiable sounds from every day life. A completely abstract arrangment
> of notes might remind us of a summer day, or a thunder storm, without ever
> making any of the sounds we associate with those phenomena in real life. So
> why can't we do the same thing with visual art? Because we have not become
> familiar with the abstract language of form. In Asian cultures and in many
> tribal cultures kids to become familiar with abstract composition in visual
> art from a very early age. I have had quite a few Asian immigrants in my
> art classes, and their command of abstract form is humbling. It is a good
> idea to get kids thinking about that music/visual art comparison. Play
> instrumental music which creates an abstract impression of some life event
> or activity. Then show them abstract visual art which does the same thing.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
> 615/597-5376
> Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
> Appalachian Center for Crafts
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

george koller on sat 16 dec 00

i love this thread,

woke up with this morning, and this idea
seemed "brilliant"

now i just hope it is worth sharing......





BUSINESS PLAN, FEASIBILITY STUDY. VENTURE CAPITAL, MARKET
RESEARCH, FEASIBILITY STUDY, PROTOTYPE PRODUCTION, LABOR
RATES, FIXED OVERHEAD, VALUE ANALYSIS, QUALITY CONTROL,
PRODUCTION RATE, INCORPORATION, STOCK,
CAPITAL EXPENDITURES....

PLAN::
MAKE YOUR CONTRIBUTION NOW, HAPPINESS TO FOLLOW

....Small cog in a system of wheels
....Small wheel in a bigger world

any flaw - as the system defines it - can be fatal
confusion/frustration :: not unlikely/not impossible

============

ALONE IN THE STUDIO,A LITTLE MESSY, YOURS
A COUPLE OF TOOLS MASTERED.
MIX, MEASURE, SPRAY, ROLL, EXTRUDE
ENGAGED: TRY, LEARN, ADOPT.. OK
ENGAGED: TRY, LEARN, ADOPT.. BETTER
ENGAGED: TRY, LEARN, ADOPT.. WHAT IS IN YOU?

TRUST*
DO IT BETTER/LISTEN/SEE/LEARN AS YOU CAN

....A big cog on a small wheel
....The big wheel in your own small world

any strength - as you can recognize it - can be the source
concentration/reward :: not unlikely/not impossible

==============

One foot in each for far too long.
My heart is made up now.

Going to take this new tool with me
but not the rules attached to it.

Good people watching from afar
As I struggle to get that second foot over.

It's really not a small step.





































Jim Chandler wrote:

> To paraphrase Vince: all of us have an artist INSIDE, and for many that
> artist doesn't have the chance to get out.
> Yes!
> Writing as one who's made a living as a decorative artist for years and
> years, now slowly and carefully inching into clay - as one who's been
> struggling to get out from under the big scary shadow of those who said
> that whatever I did it wasn't "real" (yikes how real does it have to
> be?), as one who struggles on and joyously watches the living art
> emerge, in whatever form it takes - thankfully there are so many
> surprises, - I want to share a tool I was introduced to, a workbook
> called "The Artist's Way" and its successor, "The Artist's Way at Work"
> by Julia Cameron et al. These books have exercises to awaken,
> validate, strengthen your artist self. There is no "us" and "them" -
> we're all creative on the inside.
> Here's to the artist INSIDE!
> Laura Chandler
> Kensington MD
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

Ruth McDonough on sat 16 dec 00

WOW I wish I had someone like you for my 10 year old daughter! She has had
some horrible experiences with art "teachers". My husband and I have
encouraged her to do everything HER way. We've told her that unless her art
project was being graded, there is no right or wrong way to do art. From the
time she was little she had a bend toward drawing, painting, paper mache,
clay...(We like to say ANYTHING is Hailey's medium!) You'd be amazed at the
teachers who told her she was doing it WRONG! (of course Mom marches her
butt into school and informs them that as far as art is concern there's no
way she can be wrong)! We even had one teacher who, we were sure, was
jealous of Hailey's abilities. She would grab the pen/pencil away from
Hailey and say, "No! Like this!" and draw on her picture!! For a while
Hailey started the "I suck" mantra. Her dad and I sat her down and told her
that from the time she could HOLD a pencil, she was drawing. For her, art is
life. I can't understand it because art doesn't come from my soul...but for
my daughter it is what drives her...If only more teachers understood like you
do.

I do have to say that we've had a few teachers that told us, "keep Hailey
drawing!" In fact her second grade teacher (who was a musician) had a
beautiful painting Hailey had done and kept it!! She said, "I have to have
it so I can say, I KNEW HER WHEN!"

Keep doing what you do!

Ruthe
Where the snow melted before the kids could see it!

Thom Mead on sat 16 dec 00

What makes it all the more

worth sharing

is that it only takes a little push sometimes to get the artist on the right path--realizing that really great teachers want EVERYONE to try to be an artist in one form or another--that is a life-affirming thing. I only want to be that way. And look for others who believe this as well.
I am tired, but we have to keep on going. I will try to sleep 20 hours a day to start January with new students--refreshed to let them know what they can be...

>From: george koller

>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG

>Subject: Re: art and learning

>Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2000 09:46:53 -0600

>i love this thread,

>woke up with this morning, and this idea

>seemed "brilliant"

>now i just hope it is worth sharing......

>BUSINESS PLAN, FEASIBILITY STUDY. VENTURE CAPITAL, MARKET

>RESEARCH, FEASIBILITY STUDY, PROTOTYPE PRODUCTION, LABOR

>RATES, FIXED OVERHEAD, VALUE ANALYSIS, QUALITY CONTROL,

>PRODUCTION RATE, INCORPORATION, STOCK,

>CAPITAL EXPENDITURES....

>PLAN::

>MAKE YOUR CONTRIBUTION NOW, HAPPINESS TO FOLLOW

>...Small cog in a system of wheels

>...Small wheel in a bigger world

>any flaw - as the system defines it - can be fatal

>confusion/frustration :: not unlikely/not impossible

>ALONE IN THE STUDIO,A LITTLE MESSY, YOURS

>A COUPLE OF TOOLS MASTERED.

>MIX, MEASURE, SPRAY, ROLL, EXTRUDE

>ENGAGED: TRY, LEARN, ADOPT.. OK

>ENGAGED: TRY, LEARN, ADOPT.. BETTER

>ENGAGED: TRY, LEARN, ADOPT.. WHAT IS IN YOU?

>

>TRUST*

>DO IT BETTER/LISTEN/SEE/LEARN AS YOU CAN

>...A big cog on a small wheel

>...The big wheel in your own small world

>any strength - as you can recognize it - can be the source

>concentration/reward :: not unlikely/not impossible

>One foot in each for far too long.

>My heart is made up now.

>

>Going to take this new tool with me

>but not the rules attached to it.

>

>Good people watching from afar

>As I struggle to get that second foot over.

>

>It's really not a small step.

>Jim Chandler wrote:

>

> > To paraphrase Vince: all of us have an artist INSIDE, and for many that

> > artist doesn't have the chance to get out.

> > Yes!

> > Writing as one who's made a living as a decorative artist for years and

> > years, now slowly and carefully inching into clay - as one who's been

> > struggling to get out from under the big scary shadow of those who said

> > that whatever I did it wasn't "real" (yikes how real does it have to

> > be?), as one who struggles on and joyously watches the living art

> > emerge, in whatever form it takes - thankfully there are so many

> > surprises, - I want to share a tool I was introduced to, a workbook

> > called "The Artist's Way" and its successor, "The Artist's Way at Work"

> > by Julia Cameron et al. These books have exercises to awaken,

> > validate, strengthen your artist self. There is no "us" and "them" -

> > we're all creative on the inside.

> > Here's to the artist INSIDE!

> > Laura Chandler

> > Kensington MD

---

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

vince pitelka on sat 16 dec 00

> Although one may see & point out different artistic
> aspects they may have, such as an intuitive ability
> with color, or design, or three dimensional art, or
> ideas. Many seem to consider artistic talent as only
> realistic drawings.

Jeanne. Yes, that is precisely the problem. You seem to have a good handle
on it. Those who favor abstraction are up against a pretty significant wall
of tradition. The Ancient Greeks alligned pictorial realism with truth and
beauty and knowledge and pretty much all that is good - that is Classical
humanism. The, in the Italian Rennaisance Classical humanism was reborn as
Christian humanism, again tied to the ideal of beauty associated with
pictorial realism, especially in figurative form. So we are fighting that
to this day. It is important for students to understand that worldwide
through history pictorial realism is the anomaly, not the norm. People have
always abstracted and interpreted reality very freely, and thousands of
years ago artists were doing non-objective abstraction as sophisticated as
anything being done today.

When dealing with kids, the music/art/abstraction analogy works great. Ever
since birth we develop a comfortable familiarity with instrumental music -
non-objective abstract compositions of pitch, tone, volume, rhythm,
repetition, etc. We do not demand that there be a recognizeable story, or
identifiable sounds from every day life. A completely abstract arrangment
of notes might remind us of a summer day, or a thunder storm, without ever
making any of the sounds we associate with those phenomena in real life. So
why can't we do the same thing with visual art? Because we have not become
familiar with the abstract language of form. In Asian cultures and in many
tribal cultures kids to become familiar with abstract composition in visual
art from a very early age. I have had quite a few Asian immigrants in my
art classes, and their command of abstract form is humbling. It is a good
idea to get kids thinking about that music/visual art comparison. Play
instrumental music which creates an abstract impression of some life event
or activity. Then show them abstract visual art which does the same thing.
Best wishes -
- Vince

Vince Pitelka
Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/

vince pitelka on sat 16 dec 00

> Ok, I am a fourth grade teacher so I can't let this one go by. Please
don't
> lump every elementary teacher together...we're a group of individuals...I
do
> have a clue about kids and art.

Lizacat -
I never intended to imply that most elementary school teachers do not have a
clue about kids and art. I said "despite the discouragement they get from
parents and peers and from elementary school teachers who don't really have
a clue about kids and art." You chose to read that as meaning "all"
elementary teachers. I never said that. Please do not read into messages
more than is there. Remember, if no offense was intended, then there is
none.
Best wishes -
- Vince

Vince Pitelka
Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/

vince pitelka on sat 16 dec 00

> My class this year is amazingly full of some of the most creative kids
I've
> every had. They drive me nuts...they hum, they whistle, they doodle on
the
> backs of their papers between spelling words on the tests, and every other
> piece of paper in view, they lose their homework and their boots and their
> lunch tickets but remember to bring me clay sculptures and drawings and
> cards. Incredible...the class is a zoo when they have to do

Lizacat -
I should add that you obviously teach in a school that appreciates the
enormous possibility of art among kids, and you are obviously very committed
to art in elementary school, and that is a very fine thing. You are
fortunate, and your students are most fortunate. I wish more elementary
school kids could be so lucky.
Best wishes -
- Vince

Vince Pitelka
Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/

Lee Love on sun 17 dec 00

----- Original Message -----
From: vince pitelka

> > if art is born in us, well then, i have wasted my entire
> > adult life trying to teach art to people.
>

>For most people,
> the artist never gets a chance to get out.

This quote is a booklet of Kanjiro Kawai's poems and essays, _We Do Not Work
Alone_:

"Anyone can make beautiful things. The capacity for expression and
creation is in everyone, but not all of us realize this. e work and
produce in spite of ourselves. The unknown self drives us on always."

Maybe Mel (and all good teachers) help us discover what was always
there.

Another quote:

"It is ultimately faith that lies at the bottom of all my work. We
do not work alone. Man can make a bowl of clay. He can make it round and
smooth, but until it is fired it cannot be used. Man can lay the fire and
light the flame. But still i is the fire itself that really completes the
bowl. And that fire is something bigger and more wonderful than any man."


--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
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Pam S on mon 18 dec 00

Some of the early lessons really do stick with us,
don't they?
I have two very strong memories from second grade that
have stuck with me
for about forty years. One is of the teacher telling
me that houses didn't
have pointy roofs (I drew one like a witch's hat) and
another memory is of the
same teacher not putting another girl's picture on the
bulletin board
because she colored the sky with a blue-green crayon.
Whether my memories
are accurate or not, the impression that I still have
is how bad I felt for
Carol and how unkind I thought the teacher was. I
still feel annoyed about that roof business. I see
pointy roofs
all the time, and so what if I didn't? I was lucky in
that I had counter
influences from home and other teachers before and
later on, but it still
rankles. Others are not so fortunate.

My mom, who taught school years ago, is now doing
after-school daycare at a
church. She tries to provide the kids with projects
and actually teach them
something. She said that some kids in the nine to
twelve years old group
are surprised when she wants them to cut their own
paper and draw their own
designs because they are so used to having things done
for them (or have not
been allowed to do them). She said that some of the
parents come early
to pick up the kids so that they can watch them make
things. When you
consider the fact that a lot of the parents' school
history is similar to
that of the kids, I guess some of them just don't know
what they and their
children have been missing.

I feel so lucky to be able to go to a house with a
pointy roof under a
blue-green sky.
Pam

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Campana"
To:
Sent: Saturday, December 16, 2000 10:54 PM
Subject: Re: art and learning


> Ruthe.
>
> Great post. You are obviously a great parent, and
very supportive. You
remind me
> of my mother. I found a writing project recently
from 1st grade that
said" when I
> grow up I want to make things" So i must have been
like Hailey. There is
one
> minor problem, however.
>
> "We've told her that unless her art
> project was being graded, there is no right or wrong
way to do art."
>
> I would say to up the ante here. Even if it will be
graded, there is
still no
> right or wrong way to do art. At such a young age,
grades are trivial.
They are
> just a way of telling you, the parent, how she's
doing in school. They
have no
> bearing on what college she gets into or anything
else like that. I would
tell
> her not to sacrifice her creativity for the sake of
a stubborn teacher.
teaching
> her this at a young age will ensure a higher level
of overall self-worth.
> Besides, comprimising expression for grades is
counterproductive, and
wrong. She
> should do her own thing, regardless of what teachers
say. trust me,
learning this
> early has made me the happy, well-adjusted guy I am
today.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jeff Campana
>
> Ruth McDonough wrote:
>
> > WOW I wish I had someone like you for my 10 year
old daughter! She has
had
> > some horrible experiences with art "teachers". My
husband and I have
> > encouraged her to do everything HER way. We've
told her that unless her
art
> > project was being graded, there is no right or
wrong way to do art.
>From the
(snipped)




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Pam S on mon 18 dec 00

Dear Dianne,

I prints and draw, too, and I don't want to ever throw
out a piece
of good or
interesting paper, or even some of the worst work
because it can be drawn
over or painted over or printed over. Storage is a
big problem! If you
have a
spare drawer somewhere (I know, who does?) maybe it
could be her personal
flat file. Otherwise, maybe you could help her make a
nice little portfolio
for her to keep her artwork in. A couple of pieces of
cardboard and some
wide tape, inside and out on one long end for the
hinge and a couple of
holes punched in the top with a ribbon to tie it
closed (also on sides if
you want) should do the trick. If you feel a bit more
industrious, cut long
thick strips of paper or use fabric for the hinge and
glue it to the board, inside and out,
for the hinge. Make the board an inch or so wider all
around than the
largest pieces that she makes. She could personalize
it by painting or
drawing on the outside. You could also bind the edges
with glued paper or
tape. When it gets too full, she could edit and
recycle (gift wrap?
cards?) and she gets to choose some of the ones that
*she* finds remarkable
or memorable. Keep up the good work!

Pam

----- Original
Message -----
From: "Diane G. Echlin"
To:
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2000 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: art and learning, vince and mel


> Kelly,
> Your post really hit home with me. As the mom of a
very prolific 5 year
> old artist, I can't count the times I have groveled
an apology to my
> daughter who has found a materpiece in the garbage
because there is
> simply no more room on the fridge/wall/my desk. I
try not to go
> overboard with praise of her work because I don't
want her to supect
> insincerity on my part and then discount all of my
opinions out of
> hand. Maybe it's time for me to ask her to choose
the works that will
> go into the "round file" to make room for more
recent pieces. And
> before anyone thinks I'm totally heartless about my
daughter's work, let
> me reassure you I have a scrapbook of drawings and
paintings that I
> think are truly remarkable, like the first time she
wrote "mommy I lov
> yu" on a picture depicting the two of us holding
hands.
> I'm printing out this post to keep on my wall
amongst the many mel
> quotes and Tony C stories.
> Thanks!
> Diane in CT
>




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Stephani Stephenson on tue 19 dec 00

There is an absolute gem of a book called
In the Early World, Discovering Art Through Crafts.

The author is Elwyn S. Richardson. The book was published in 1969 by
Pantheon Books, a division of Random house. Original copyright was 1964,
by the New Zealand Council for Educational Research.

Richardson was a new young teacher at a one room schoolhouse on the
very northern coast of New Zealand. Trained as a scientist , he took the
job initially so he could study a certain type of mollusk in the area.
There are fewer than a dozen students in the school, and they really are
the main characters in the book.
The book is a refreshingly straightforward account of the development of
the discoveries and learning process at the school. It is about problem
solving and exploring. Richardson=92s writing style incorporates a good
deal of dialogue among the children.They first decide to learn how to
make pots, which of course includes figuring out just how to decide
what makes a good pottery clay . They have to then figure out how to
find and dig clay, how to set up a work space, what kinds of tools
they need to make, how to form clay,make pots, make large pots, dry
clay, fire clay, process the clay, paint pots, sculpt heads, make a
kiln, and on and on.They go on to do batik, printmaking, poetry,
painting; using crafts as the window to math, language,writing,
science, nature and social studies. It is a beautiful book with many
examples of the fresh and also accomplished work of the students.

What I love about the book is how the varioust children come up with
solutions to different aspects of the problems they face. Each one
contributes and is acknowledged. It is amazing to read about how the
process grows as they gain experience and both create and meet new
challenges..
What is wonderful also is Richardson=92s descriptions of the teaching
/sharing relationships between older and younger students
=2E
Here is an excerpt from the introduction by John Melser, which conveys
some of the underlying philosophy.

Quote:
Oruati school functioned as a a community of artists and scientists
who turned a frank and searching gaze on all that came within their
ambit. Curiosity and emotional force led them to explore together the
natural world and the world of their feelings. They learned to esteem
each other=92s explorations, discoveries, and records with tact and with
discriminating enthusiasm, so that a fine collective strength was
developed, a strength depending on each child making an individual
search and bringing to the group what only he could give. In return the
group sustained each child and valued his discoveries; its achievements
pressed him on to further exploration. this feeling grew from the
direction of the common search and the wholeness it gave the children

In much discussion of teaching there is an assumption that a radical
difference of kind exists between work which is variously called
creative, imaginative or expressive - work which is about children=92s
feelings and sensations- and on the other hand, work which is
distinguished as factual and which concerns the real or outside world

Attitudes that follow from this assumption induce children to write
=91creatively=92 by by injecting an artificial heightening of tone or a
spurious fancy into an otherwise straightforward account, and force
them into a clipped inelegantly dull jargon whenever presenting a
report

A matter of fact acceptance of a total event in which feelings are
involved with all the other facts of the situation permits a growth in
awareness and a search for exactness which the usual view prevents or
hinders. The children turned the same dispassionate and unselfconscious
regard on to their own feelings as on to other events and pursued with
the same relentless demand for exactitude a fact of natural science or a
fact of human response.
It is this that made possible the beauty of the poetry, the excellence
of the graphic and ceramic work and the careful scientific observation
Because the children were not required to make a divorce between the
parts of their experience, a divorce hostile to their intuitive grasp of
situations, they could bend to their work with enthusiasm and a degree
of concentration which ordinary schooling never touches.

End Quote

It is likely this book is out of print. I picked up a copy years ago at
Powell=92s in Portland. Good one to look for.

Stephani Stephenson
mudmistress@earthlink.net

http://home.earthlink.net/~mudmistress/

http://www.alchemiestudio.com

Diane G. Echlin on tue 19 dec 00

"Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI)" wrote:
>
> I have kept as many of my daughter's scribblings, drawings, cartoons,
> photographs, poems, papers...as was humanly possible. I did this because my
> own mother threw out ALL of my drawings, paintings, papers, etc...and I went
> to art school on Saturdays from the age of 8. She never displayed any of my
> drawings. She sent me a very strong message. I was determined not to do
> that to my daughter, even if she never became an artist. I never throw
> anything out without her permission. Now, she loves going through her old
> stuff. Think about what message you are sending to your child.


Okay, I have to respond, since so many people seem horrified that I
throw away some of my daughter's work. It's not easy, but just as I
"terminate" much of my own work, and my daughter often witnesses this, I
have to draw a line (!) somewhere. The select pieces I've kept are
displayed throughout the house, and I actually have kept a rather fine
drawing she made directly on the wall. I didn't paint over it because
it's really charming. There is evidence of her creativity and growth in
every room of my home, but I simply can't keep it all. No attic, wet
basement. Please don't construe this as not valueing her work, because
I do.

But just as we all tell the beginners on this list to cull the less
desireable pieces from their pottery and then make more more more, so
too to I hope to encourage my daughter to continue to elaborate on the
works she has already made. I can see no possible return in telling her
that the scribbling she spend 12 seconds on is as good as the well
thought out vigniette that she labored over for quite some time. It's
insincere. I want her to trust my opinion, even if she doesn't agree
with it, and often I can tell if she is testing me, because I know she
doesn't value the works that involved only a cursory effort.

If she describes a picture in one sentence, I know she doesn't care
about it nearly as much as the picture she describes with an entire
story in which she details every nuance of color, shape, line, and
expression. Those are the works that get saved and are treasured by us
both.

Diane in CT

Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on tue 19 dec 00

Diane--
We all do it our own way.

For me, it was most important that she develop her own sense of what was
good and what she liked, rather than me imposing my judgment on her. I did
enough of that already in many, many ways and materially through the choice
of stuff in which we lived everyday.

Sandy




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Diane G. Echlin [SMTP:Dechlin@CONNIX.COM]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 7:46 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: art and learning
>
> "Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI)" wrote:
> >
> > I have kept as many of my daughter's scribblings, drawings, cartoons,
> > photographs, poems, papers...as was humanly possible. I did this
> because my
> > own mother threw out ALL of my drawings, paintings, papers, etc...and I
> went
> > to art school on Saturdays from the age of 8. She never displayed any
> of my
> > drawings. She sent me a very strong message. I was determined not to
> do
> > that to my daughter, even if she never became an artist. I never throw
> > anything out without her permission. Now, she loves going through her
> old
> > stuff. Think about what message you are sending to your child.
>
>
> Okay, I have to respond, since so many people seem horrified that I
> throw away some of my daughter's work. It's not easy, but just as I
> "terminate" much of my own work, and my daughter often witnesses this, I
> have to draw a line (!) somewhere. The select pieces I've kept are
> displayed throughout the house, and I actually have kept a rather fine
> drawing she made directly on the wall. I didn't paint over it because
> it's really charming. There is evidence of her creativity and growth in
> every room of my home, but I simply can't keep it all. No attic, wet
> basement. Please don't construe this as not valueing her work, because
> I do.
>
> But just as we all tell the beginners on this list to cull the less
> desireable pieces from their pottery and then make more more more, so
> too to I hope to encourage my daughter to continue to elaborate on the
> works she has already made. I can see no possible return in telling her
> that the scribbling she spend 12 seconds on is as good as the well
> thought out vigniette that she labored over for quite some time. It's
> insincere. I want her to trust my opinion, even if she doesn't agree
> with it, and often I can tell if she is testing me, because I know she
> doesn't value the works that involved only a cursory effort.
>
> If she describes a picture in one sentence, I know she doesn't care
> about it nearly as much as the picture she describes with an entire
> story in which she details every nuance of color, shape, line, and
> expression. Those are the works that get saved and are treasured by us
> both.
>
> Diane in CT
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> ____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.

Joyce Lee on tue 19 dec 00

Diane said in defense of not keeping every piece her talented daughter
creates:

> I can see no possible return in telling her
> that the scribbling she spend 12 seconds on is as good as the well
> thought out vigniette that she labored over for quite some time.

I appreciate what Diane is saying; she does after all demonstrate in
every way that she values her daughter's art.... her home is decorated
with the choicest pieces .... but, at least as important, she thinks the
work IS work and is worth critiquing .... which I'm sure instills in her
daughter that SHE and her work are worthy of serious consideration by
her talented and proud mom. Someday she'll need to build a portfolio
and, unlike most who've achieved that status for the first time, she'll
have some idea how to be selective. This doesn't mean, however, that
Sandra's approach to her child's work..... where she keeps EVERYTHING
her daughter makes ... is somehow less important than Diane's. I'm not
just being a wimp here. Both methods of loving parenting are producing
creative, confident children. THAT'S what counts, as we all know, much
more than the "how" we achieve such growth.

Personally ... though I didn't even allow the thought of art/craft to
reside in my lopsided brain until past 60 ... when I did begin working
with clay I felt a degree of confidence from the get go. Clayart helped
immensely. Having a gifted pottery teacher plus a separate mentor
brought me along just fine. Neither pretended that I was producing works
of art .... though I never perceived a sign of discouragement on their
parts even when we shared many a laugh over my babystep attempts to
create something only recognizable by God, and she wasn't telling!
BUT the two (not including God) did meet periodically to examine and
discuss my progress, to emphasize that I did in fact have more than a
gram of creativity, that what I sorely lacked was technique/knowledge
which could be learned, and how best to guide me. They encouraged my
genuine, if overwhelming, enthusiasm as one of my most valuable tools.
AND they laughed with me..... very important to me ...... sincere
laughter, which often ended with, "you'd better keep that one; you'll
never in this lifetime manage to do that again and will treasure its
"primitive," "naive" quality later. And I do. Lois Hinman, mentor, and
Paul Meyers, teacher extraordinaire, know who they are but I like
mentioning their names.

And, before it's noted, yes, I do often decry my lack of ability and my
struggle to grow just a little more... one step at a time... or
sometimes twenty steps in one... but that's not because I feel hopeless
or inept. I know that IN TIME I will meet the challenges I set for
myself. I like to think that I just have better taste than my work now
exhibits.

Joyce
In the Mojave extremely happy and pleased ...... who knows why...
sometimes it just happens......