david mcbeth on thu 14 dec 00
We have a Skutt 1027 with kilnmaster. It is not vented with extra means.
It has not but the most reialbe kiln I have fired but it goes along ok.
Lately it has been firing very unevenly from top to bottom. I have talked
with the rep from Skutt but would like to hear this groups thoughts also.
We fire to C6, sometimes pushing it to C7. I do not use the ramp/hold
feature, just the start Cone fire mode. Based on past experience it shoud
fire a "normal" load in about eight hours. Lately it has taken up to 13
hours. All new elemts this fall, new top element last week but now the
bottom of the kiln is firing noticeably hotter than the top. Could a tired
thermocouple casue this much irregularity? I stagger the shelves, we are
firing small functional ware for the most part. Thanks for your help!
dave
David McBeth, MFA
Associate Professor of Art
330 B Gooch Hall
Department of Art, Dance and Theatre
University of Tennessee at Martin
Martin, Tennessee 38238
901-587-7416
Vikki Dow on thu 14 dec 00
----------
>From: david mcbeth
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: skutt kiln problems
>Date: Thu, Dec 14, 2000, 3:32 PM
>
>We have a Skutt 1027 with kilnmaster. It is not vented with extra means.
>It has not but the most reialbe kiln I have fired but it goes along ok.
>Lately it has been firing very unevenly from top to bottom. I have talked
>with the rep from Skutt but would like to hear this groups thoughts also.
>We fire to C6, sometimes pushing it to C7. I do not use the ramp/hold
>feature, just the start Cone fire mode. Based on past experience it shoud
>fire a "normal" load in about eight hours. Lately it has taken up to 13
>hours. All new elemts this fall, new top element last week but now the
>bottom of the kiln is firing noticeably hotter than the top. Could a tired
>thermocouple casue this much irregularity? I stagger the shelves, we are
>firing small functional ware for the most part. Thanks for your help!
>
>dave
>
>David McBeth, MFA
>Associate Professor of Art
>330 B Gooch Hall
>Department of Art, Dance and Theatre
>University of Tennessee at Martin
>Martin, Tennessee 38238
>
>901-587-7416
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Hi Dave,
This is Libby at Stilltree Pottery. We have a Skutt 1027 w/ a kilnmaster. I have been to hell
and back with this kiln, but that was when I was tring to go to ^10 three times a week or more.
Now that I go to ^ 6 for glaze fires things have settled down. I have an enirovent on my kiln
and that might be the reason that the top and bottem runs cooler than the center of the kiln. I
also called the Skutt tech and his advise was to load the top and bottem lighter than the center
of the kiln. That has worked for me, however in my experience with this kiln when the firing
time gets longer and longer somthing is burning out. The thermocouple and the elements are
always my first suspects, but also swing open your kilnmaster and make sure the white connection
wires are still in good shape. The connection should be tight of course, and they should not
brittle or crumbling, anything that looks old or worn out should be replaced. This might take an
afternoon to track down the wire (only use the wire that shutt recommends, you should be able to
get it at your ceramics supply store) , but you know how much time it saves in the long run.
My kiln recently went from and 8 1/2 hour fire to a 12 hour fire and then I got and error
message. After checking and the elements and the thermocouple I found that one of the connection
wires was in bad need of replacing. After all the running around to get the wire and installing
it, I have been as happy as a potter can be this time for the year.
Hope this helps
Libby
Arnold Howard on fri 15 dec 00
Dave, what kind of ware are you firing? Does it contain moisture?
(One sign of moisture in the ware is water dripping from the kiln
case.) The water will slow the kiln.
Is it possible that you are firing a 240 volt kiln on a 208 volt
circuit?
If you have low voltage, the elements will struggle near the end of
the firing to reach temperature. This struggle is hard on the
elements. Have you checked voltage under load?
I have other suggestions if the above doesn't help.
With best wishes,
Arnold Howard
Paragon
--- david mcbeth wrote:
> We have a Skutt 1027 with kilnmaster. It is not vented with
> extra means.
> It has not but the most reialbe kiln I have fired but it goes
> along ok.
> Lately it has been firing very unevenly from top to bottom. I
> have talked
> with the rep from Skutt but would like to hear this groups
> thoughts also.
> We fire to C6, sometimes pushing it to C7. I do not use the
> ramp/hold
> feature, just the start Cone fire mode. Based on past experience
> it shoud
> fire a "normal" load in about eight hours. Lately it has taken
> up to 13
> hours. All new elemts this fall, new top element last week but
> now the
> bottom of the kiln is firing noticeably hotter than the top.
> Could a tired
> thermocouple casue this much irregularity? I stagger the
> shelves, we are
> firing small functional ware for the most part. Thanks for your
> help!
>
> dave
>
> David McBeth, MFA
> Associate Professor of Art
> 330 B Gooch Hall
> Department of Art, Dance and Theatre
> University of Tennessee at Martin
> Martin, Tennessee 38238
>
> 901-587-7416
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
__________________________________________________
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Snail Scott on sun 5 jan 03
At 05:52 PM 1/5/03 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi everyone
>
>I just purchased a Skutt kiln and fired to cone 6. A lot of the glaze ran
and I dont want this to happen again. Should I only fire to cone 5? If I
dont use the cone fire program mode, should I program in the rate and
temperature?
First thing to know, is: did it REALLY fire to ^6,
or not?
If you fired to ^6 and your glazes ran, then either
they aren't ^6 glazes, or you fired higher than ^6.
What was your peak temperature indicator? Witness
cones, a sitter, or a pyrometer/controller? Witness
cones are the most accurate and reliable; anything
else may need calibration.
Fire it again, with the glazes on scrap tiles, and
use witness cones. With a new kiln, you should use
them anyway, until you learn how it behaves and
whether its controller is accurate. (I'd use them
anyway, even later on.) You need to learn to fine-
tune it for best results, since firing length can be
as big a factor as temperature. That's why you need
to compare the pyrometer readings with the cone
readings, and compare both with your firing results.
IF the original reading turns out to be accurate,
what is the maturation temperature of your clay?
You probably shouldn't fire to a lower cone if it
means under-cooking your clay. Better to find glaze
recipes that suit your clay's temperature, than to
underfire your clay to suit your glazes. If your
clay needs to be ^6 to mature, then modify your
glazes or find new ones. Or keep the glazes, but
find a clay that matures lower.
IF the controller (or whatever you used to determine
the temperature the first time) turns out to be
inaccurate, then it needs to be recalibrated. Kiln
sitters can be re-set easily. controllers are outside
my experience, so perhaps someone else could comment
if it turns out to be relevant.
-Snail
barbara arner on sun 5 jan 03
the glazes are cone 6 premixed commercial. i have fired them in my old kiln to cone six using orton cones and it was perfect. the 30 yr old kiln died and now i have a new one. i dont think the skutt is firing to the accurate temperature. does anyone have a automatic skutt kiln? and if so, how do you go about firing to cone six? i thought i could rely upon the setting where you enter the cone number but they ran. not riduculous amounts but enough for the piece to be sharp at the bottom and a little onto the shelf. can someone guide me as to how to maually set the kiln? thanks. -barbara
-----Original Message-----
From: william schran
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Sunday, January 05, 2003 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: Skutt kiln problems
>Barbara fired her new Skutt kiln to cone 6 and all the glazes ran and
>asked how she can fix the kiln.
>Barbara - Have you fired these glazes to cone 6 previously without
>them running? Are you certain they are cone 6 glazes? Have you tested
>them? Are they commercially made glazes or did you mix them? Need
>more information on the glazes.
>How do you know the kiln fired to cone 6? Did you place witness cones
>throughout the kiln to check the results against the controller? Is
>the thermocouple placed the correct length into the kiln?
>So many variables, need lots more information to be able suggest
>possible solutions.
>Bill
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
barbara arner on sun 5 jan 03
Hi everyone
I just purchased a Skutt kiln and fired to cone 6. A lot of the glaze ran and I dont want this to happen again. Should I only fire to cone 5? If I dont use the cone fire program mode, should I program in the rate and temperature? If anyone has had these kind of problems and know how to fix it, please let me know. Guidelines would be helpful. Thanks so much for your help.
-barbara
John Rodgers on sun 5 jan 03
Barbara, it sounds like your glaze was not matched to the temperature
range (cone) that you used to fire the kiln. If you fire to cone 6, you
must have a cone 6 glaze. If you used a cone 5 glaze or lower, and did
fire to cone 6, the glaze will melt and run off the pots onto the shelves.
John Rodgers
Birmingham, AL
barbara arner wrote:
>Hi everyone
>
>I just purchased a Skutt kiln and fired to cone 6. A lot of the glaze ran and I dont want this to happen again. Should I only fire to cone 5? If I dont use the cone fire program mode, should I program in the rate and temperature? If anyone has had these kind of problems and know how to fix it, please let me know. Guidelines would be helpful. Thanks so much for your help.
>
>-barbara
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
>
william schran on sun 5 jan 03
Barbara fired her new Skutt kiln to cone 6 and all the glazes ran and
asked how she can fix the kiln.
Barbara - Have you fired these glazes to cone 6 previously without
them running? Are you certain they are cone 6 glazes? Have you tested
them? Are they commercially made glazes or did you mix them? Need
more information on the glazes.
How do you know the kiln fired to cone 6? Did you place witness cones
throughout the kiln to check the results against the controller? Is
the thermocouple placed the correct length into the kiln?
So many variables, need lots more information to be able suggest
possible solutions.
Bill
Arnold Howard on mon 6 jan 03
Your kiln sounds like it needs to fire a little cooler. I would
estimate the amount and program that into an adjustment called
thermocouple offset. You will find it covered in the kiln's
instruction manual. Thermocouple offset allows you to change the
temperature at which the kiln shuts off.
If the temperature adjustment needed is over 30 deg. F., your
thermocouple may be defective. Or, it may not be pushed far enough
into the firing chamber (see manual for correct distance). The
thermocouple is the small rod that extends into the firing chamber.
Also, keep shelves at least 1" away from the thermcouple. They can
affect the thermocouple reading.
I would also place witness cones on the shelves.
The digital controller sometimes has to be adjusted for the first
few firings. This is not unusual. Once you get it adjusted
properly, you will be amazed at how accurately it duplicates
firings.
As the thermocouple ages, it will begin to "drift" in accuracy. You
probably have a type-K thermocouple, which is standard. You could
later install the type-S, which has an extremely long life without
temperature drift.
Good luck,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, Inc.
--- barbara arner wrote:
> the glazes are cone 6 premixed commercial. i have fired them in
> my old kiln to cone six using orton cones and it was perfect. the
> 30 yr old kiln died and now i have a new one. i dont think the
> skutt is firing to the accurate temperature. does anyone have a
> automatic skutt kiln? and if so, how do you go about firing to
> cone six? i thought i could rely upon the setting where you enter
> the cone number but they ran. not riduculous amounts but enough
> for the piece to be sharp at the bottom and a little onto the
> shelf. can someone guide me as to how to maually set the kiln?
> thanks. -barbara
> -----Original Message-----
> From: william schran
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Sunday, January 05, 2003 10:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Skutt kiln problems
>
>
> >Barbara fired her new Skutt kiln to cone 6 and all the glazes
> ran and
> >asked how she can fix the kiln.
> >Barbara - Have you fired these glazes to cone 6 previously
> without
> >them running? Are you certain they are cone 6 glazes? Have you
> tested
> >them? Are they commercially made glazes or did you mix them?
> Need
> >more information on the glazes.
> >How do you know the kiln fired to cone 6? Did you place witness
> cones
> >throughout the kiln to check the results against the controller?
> Is
> >the thermocouple placed the correct length into the kiln?
> >So many variables, need lots more information to be able suggest
> >possible solutions.
> >Bill
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Earl Brunner on mon 6 jan 03
You really didn't answer the questions. Did you put witness cones in
the firing? Even if you use the programmable features, without cones
you don't really know what happened. How or what program did you use to
tell the kiln to go to cone 6?
I fire our skutts to cone 6 at the art center and I use the program and
ramp settings recommended by Ron and John in "Mastering Cone 6 Glazes".
BUT I place cones in the kiln, top, middle, and bottom to see what is
going on. Once I know that the kiln is working correctly and giving the
results I want at the programmed settings, then I don't put cones in
every time, but I do spot check from time to time.
Let's say I want to go to cone 6, so I program the ramp mode to go to
2232 F. ( What one of my books says is the temperature for cone 6 using
large cones- large cones have different temperature ranges than small
ones). I put cones top middle and bottom in the firing. When it comes
out, the glazes have run too much, (I know that I mixed them right and
in the other kiln they look fine) Then I look at the cones, are they at
the correct bend? What I really need to do though is lower the
temperature to match the glazes better, (in this sense it doesn't really
matter what the cones say) So I lower the peak temperature on the next
firing. If they ran a lot I might lower the temperature 20-30 degrees.
And I put cones back in this time too.
After two or three firings I should be able to program it to a correct
temperature for the glazes, then I note what the cones look like AT THAT
TIME and that is going to be my reference in the future.
barbara arner wrote:
> the glazes are cone 6 premixed commercial. i have fired them in my old kiln to cone six using orton cones and it was perfect. the 30 yr old kiln died and now i have a new one. i dont think the skutt is firing to the accurate temperature. does anyone have a automatic skutt kiln? and if so, how do you go about firing to cone six? i thought i could rely upon the setting where you enter the cone number but they ran. not riduculous amounts but enough for the piece to be sharp at the bottom and a little onto the shelf. can someone guide me as to how to maually set the kiln? thanks. -barbara
Mitch Kotula on wed 2 apr 03
Have been using my Skutt KM-1027 for the past 4 years
and it just never has fired right. Find it hard to
believe the CM cover ad about firing crystaline glazes
perfectly.
My Skutt grossly underfires bisque to about a ^06
while set on ^04. Then it grossly overfires glaze to
a ^7 or ^8 while set for ^6.
Bisque Solution: I do a cone fire to ^04 with a one
hour hold.
Glaze Solution: I ramp fire to 2200F with a 10 minute
hold.
Have ruined many kiln loads to get here.
Spoke with Mr. Skutt at NCECA, along with Mary Ann
Diggory (www.madiggory@yahoo.com) who has same problem
with slightly larger Skutt. Mr. Skutt went into a
long lecture about ramp speed and offered tech help,
but I just bought a 10.2 cu ft Olympic and it fires
PERFECT!
Skutt tech support has been wonderful, replacing the
controller guts as well as the thermostat, but to no
avail.
Ask around and good luck. I have been really
disappointed and lost a lot of work to unnecessary
experimentation. I hope you do not have to do the
same.
Mitch
=====
Mitch Kotula
Development Plus
PO Box 2076
Hamilton, MT 59840-4076
406-961-5136 (Home)
406-546-6980 (Cell)
__________________________________________________
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Cindi Anderson on wed 2 apr 03
Even with an electronic kiln, you should have witness cones inside your
kiln. It is the only way to see what temp is really being reached inside
the kiln (then you can calibrate the controller or program.) What do the
witness cones tell you?
----- Original Message -----
From: "barbara arner"
To:
Sent: Sunday, January 05, 2003 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: Skutt kiln problems
> the glazes are cone 6 premixed commercial. i have fired them in my old
kiln to cone six using orton cones and it was perfect. the 30 yr old kiln
died and now i have a new one. i dont think the skutt is firing to the
accurate temperature. does anyone have a automatic skutt kiln? and if so,
how do you go about firing to cone six? i thought i could rely upon the
setting where you enter the cone number but they ran. not riduculous amounts
but enough for the piece to be sharp at the bottom and a little onto the
shelf. can someone guide me as to how to maually set the kiln?
thanks. -barbara
Arnold Howard on thu 3 apr 03
Mitch, I believe your controller has both cone offset and thermocouple
offset. Cone offset will adjust the firing for a particular cone without
affecting the other cone temperatures. Thermocouple offset adjusts all
the cone firings with one adjustment.
Have you tried cone offset rather than thermocouple offset?
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
www.paragonweb.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Mitch Kotula
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 11:14 PM
Subject: Re: [CLAYART] Skutt kiln problems
> Have been using my Skutt KM-1027 for the past 4 years
> and it just never has fired right. Find it hard to
> believe the CM cover ad about firing crystaline glazes
> perfectly.
>
> My Skutt grossly underfires bisque to about a ^06
> while set on ^04. Then it grossly overfires glaze to
> a ^7 or ^8 while set for ^6.
>
> Bisque Solution: I do a cone fire to ^04 with a one
> hour hold.
>
> Glaze Solution: I ramp fire to 2200F with a 10 minute
> hold.
>
> Have ruined many kiln loads to get here.
>
> Spoke with Mr. Skutt at NCECA, along with Mary Ann
> Diggory (www.madiggory@yahoo.com) who has same problem
> with slightly larger Skutt. Mr. Skutt went into a
> long lecture about ramp speed and offered tech help,
> but I just bought a 10.2 cu ft Olympic and it fires
> PERFECT!
>
> Skutt tech support has been wonderful, replacing the
> controller guts as well as the thermostat, but to no
> avail.
>
> Ask around and good luck. I have been really
> disappointed and lost a lot of work to unnecessary
> experimentation. I hope you do not have to do the
> same.
>
> Mitch
>
>
> =====
> Mitch Kotula
> Development Plus
> PO Box 2076
> Hamilton, MT 59840-4076
> 406-961-5136 (Home)
> 406-546-6980 (Cell)
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
> http://tax.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Arnold Howard on thu 3 apr 03
It is not unusual for a digital kiln to be a little off in firing
results from the cone number you enter. But once you know how much it is
off, you can adjust the controller with a feature called "thermocouple
offset."
If the witness cone is over-fired, estimate how many degrees it
over-fired. Follow the instructions in your manual to change
thermocouple offset.
Once you have adjusted thermocouple offset, you should get amazingly
repeatable firing results for a long time. But eventually, the
thermocouple (temperature sensor) will begin to age. When that happens,
the kiln will gradually fire to a slightly lower temperature for a given
cone number. This is normal with Type K thermocouples (the standard type
used in ceramic kilns). By using a witness cone in your firings, you
will know when the thermocouple begins to drift.
Type S thermocouples ordinarily fire for years without drift. They are
more expensive than Type K, but if you fire to cone 6 and hotter, they
are definitely worth the money.
Before you buy a Type S thermocouple, be sure your controller is
designed for it. Ask your supplier. Also, when you install the new
thermocouple, you will have to program the controller for Type S.
Controllers are set at the factory by default for Type K. If you install
a Type S thermocouple on a controller programmed for Type K, your kiln
will probably over-fire. So it is important to read your instruction
manual.
Be careful not to jar the thermocouple during loading, especially if you
have a Type S. They are expensive, and when they need replacing, it is
usually due to breakage during loading and unloading.
Sincerely,
Arnold Howard
Paragon Industries, L.P.
www.paragonweb.com
From: Cindi Anderson
> Even with an electronic kiln, you should have witness cones inside
your
> kiln. It is the only way to see what temp is really being reached
inside
> the kiln (then you can calibrate the controller or program.) What do
the
> witness cones tell you?
> From: "barbara arner"
> > the glazes are cone 6 premixed commercial. i have fired them in my
old
> kiln to cone six using orton cones and it was perfect. the 30 yr old
kiln
> died and now i have a new one. i dont think the skutt is firing to the
> accurate temperature. does anyone have a automatic skutt kiln? and if
so,
> how do you go about firing to cone six? i thought i could rely upon
the
> setting where you enter the cone number but they ran. not riduculous
amounts
> but enough for the piece to be sharp at the bottom and a little onto
the
> shelf. can someone guide me as to how to maually set the kiln?
> thanks. -barbara
Mitch Kotula on sat 5 apr 03
Arnold: Many thanks. In the many conversations I
have had with Skutt tech support, neither of the
adjustment options were mentioned.
When I get home I will give those a try. I'll let you
know.
Thanks again.
Mitch
=====
Mitch Kotula
Development Plus
PO Box 2076
Hamilton, MT 59840-4076
406-961-5136 (Home)
406-546-6980 (Cell)
__________________________________________________
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