Jean Silverman on sat 16 dec 00
>
>
> > PS: Concerning originality: I have found that it is impossible to be
> > truly original. All my best thoughts turn out to have been thought
>before,
> > usually in ancient times.
>
>Goodness Gavin. You generally seem very optimistic, but this is rather
>grim. I do not know your work, but you probably deserve a lot more credit.
>I have found that once one releases oneself from immitation, it is almost
>impossible to not be original.
These comments from Gavin and Vince remind of something my husband Bob
always used to tell his students (he's a novelist and former writing
teacher) and has quoted to me more than once when I've been particularly
discouraged about the possibility of ever becoming a "real" potter/artist,
whatever that is. He says:
"There are no new stories to tell, only the old ones told in new ways.
'For, while the tale of how we suffer, and how we are delighted, and how we
may triumph is never new, it always must be heard. There isn't any other
tale to tell, it's the only light we've got in all this darkness.' "
(The internal quote is from the story "Sonny's Blues" by James Baldwin.
Sonny is a musician, we on this list tell our tales in clay--Baldwin used
language. Same story. Gavin and Vince are both right.
Jean Silverman
Plum Tree Pottery
41 Neal Mill Rd.
Newmarket NH 03857
603-659-2632
vince pitelka on sun 17 dec 00
Gavin wrote:
> > > > PS: Concerning originality: I have found that it is impossible to
be
> > > > truly original. All my best thoughts turn out to have been thought
before,
> > > > usually in ancient times.
Lee Wrote:
> I think Gavin's attitude is a good one. Our modern culture's
> unquestioned religion is innovation, the new, the future. We spend a
lot
> of time reinventing the wheel. Our preoccupation with the new has
turned
> into the worship of the grotesque: Novelty for novelties sake.
Art immitates life. Some people go on to say that life immitates TV, but
that is irrelevant here. It is true that innovation and change have
reached disease proportion in our culture. Having something new is not
enough. It must be the newest. Like you say, "novelty for novelty's sake."
Things barely arrive on the scene and they are replaced by a "new improved
model." This has also reached disease proportions in the mainstream big
city art world, but that is just an extension of popular fashion and has
little to do with real issues of originality in art. Time will sort out
what is truly original and truly worthwhile. All the stuff which is
original just for the sake of change will fall by the wayside. My point is
simply that every artist has the potention to re-interpret precedents,
drawing from the work which most strongly affects them. It does not mean
that they are compelled to create something entirely new. There is nothing
at all wrong with devoting oneself to the perpetuation of a tradition, but
I'll bet most artisans who do so always insert some spark of originality
into their work. I believe it is human nature.
> There are two differing routes (among many) to take for
creativity:
> we can take the route of individual expression. The hazards of this
route
> are that the maker can become self-centered and egotistical. Their work
> becomes a caricature of itself.
This is a very strange concept. I suppose it is true within the big-city
mainstream avant garde, because ego and self-promotion are a definite
advantage in that strange world (mainstream avant garde - now there's a
concept to consider!!). But most artists "taking the route of individual
expression" are doing so because they are driven to do so. It is the
perfectly natural way to evolve as an artist.
> Another route is to tap into the
> archetypal patterns, expressions and forms. You immerse yourself in the
> Muse to transcend the confines of a smaller self and draw on something
> bigger than you are.
I would say that almost all artists do that, including the ones emphasizing
individual experession. But even those who don't are capable of brilliant
self expression. Art CAN be created in a vacuum, if the artist is
sufficiently driven. But there are certainly PLENTY of self-absorbed
egomaniacs creating art which does become a caricature of itself, because
they get to a point where they exclude external influence primarily for the
sake of self-absorption.
> This is where all universally great art comes from,
> work that is not confined to a time, place or culture. It is work that
> will stand the test of time.
This is a little extreme. All great art arises from very specific time,
place, and culture, and speaks to specific circumstances within that time,
place, and culture. However, what often makes it great is that it addresses
the human condition in a way that truly is universal. But such work could
easily come from within a cultural, societal vacuum, the expression of a
tortured soul, or from someone exiled in the wilderness.
> "Painting is stronger than I am. It can make me do whatever it
wants."
> -- Pablo Picasso
I like this quote, but it can be interpreted to support my case as much as
yours.
> The biggest hazard for the artist whose inspiration is self
> expression is immitating and copying himself. The problem with this is
> that we often don't know we are doing it. If we cut ourselves from the
> source, we are only creating a truncated "imitation" of our larger selves.
Again, Lee, I never in any way implied that we "cut ourselves form the
source."
But to imply that isolating oneself from "the source" makes us create a
"truncated immitation of our larger selves" completely denies the incredible
originality and invention which is possible when artists place themselves in
total cultural and societal isolation, as so many great artists, writers,
and musicians have done by choice.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Home - vpitelka@dekalb.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Gavin Stairs on sun 17 dec 00
At 08:13 PM 12/16/00, Lee Love wrote:
>... Our modern culture's
>unquestioned religion is innovation, the new, the future. We spend a lot
>of time reinventing the wheel. Our preoccupation with the new has turned
>into the worship of the grotesque: Novelty for novelties sake.
....
Hi Lee,
My attitude is born in the following experience. I spent a lot of my life
trying to write original philosophy. The reason you haven't heard much
about my great works is that every time I got my mind around a conundrum
that was facing me, I'd busily write away at it for a while. I actually
had a policy of not reading the so-called greats, so as not to get
hoodwinked into falling for the same old errors. So there I was,
struggling to write from a place of uncorrupted truth. Two things
invariably happened. First, I'd find my indisputable truth twisting under
my gaze, so that by the time I had finished an essay, the end of it didn't
say the same thing as the beginning. Second, I'd find that stuff I had
dismissed years ago suddenly began to make sense. The old guys that I had
dismissed were all saying what I had just discovered, and better than I
could! And then I'd find the same ideas all over the place, in folk tales,
in street talk, popular songs, philosophical treatises, holy books, dime
store trash novels, you name it. "The words of the prophets are written on
the subway walls, and tenement halls." "The streets are paved with
gold." We each see the same truths, but our minds don't grasp them in the
same language. The language is never the same as the truth, which is
beyond language. So what I was struggling with was a problem of
translation. First I had to remove the scales from my eyes. Then I had to
accept that I couldn't say something that was not susceptible to
misinterpretation. So I became a mute.
There is only one way around this problem that I have discovered. No. I
didn't discover it, of course. It has been known for all time. All our
time, anyway. It is what you referred to as tapping into the archetypes,
which is Jung's appreciation of it, and is therefore quite close to the
sensibility of our time. It's really only going below the layer of
conceptual thought that covers all of our ordinary perception of reality,
to the direct perceptual layer below. This conceptual layer is what has
been known as the seven veils, or ignorance. We in the west tend to call
it knowledge. The archetypes, the protector deities, the guardian spirits
are the harbingers of our struggle with our own ignorance. Much of all
art is no more than depiction of these images. I like to think of then as
gateway defenders, like the lions on the steps of many museums.
Artists know this, of course. The confusion comes in trying to live in the
conceptual arena at the same time as we drop the veils to see. In pottery,
we know that pot making has rules. These are conceptual, and therefore
antithetic to our intuitive vision, our creativity. So what do we do: drop
everything and simply grope blindly? No. We do what mingei and
apprenticeship are pointing to: we study the craft to imbue ourselves with
the rule based structure, and then we move gently and steadily on beyond,
into the unspoilt territory of direct perception. We open our
minds. Without the base, we are asea on a waterlogged raft. With the
base, we sail confidently and without trepidation. Our minds calm, we
proceed with confidence, unconcerned what anyone else may think or say.
What the teachers of art can do, and do do with mastery in many cases, is
to impart that conceptual base. What no-one can do is to chart the course
beyond, for that is what we must do for ourselves. And yet it is an ocean
that has been crossed many times by countless forbears. There is nothing
new under the sun, yet we are all the discoverers, for ourselves, of each
verity. We are learning to see.
All the best, Gavin
Lee Love on sun 17 dec 00
----- Original Message -----
From: Jean Silverman
Gavin:
> > > PS: Concerning originality: I have found that it is impossible to
be
> > > truly original. All my best thoughts turn out to have been thought
> >before,
> > > usually in ancient times.
Vince:
> >Goodness Gavin. You generally seem very optimistic, but this is rather
> >grim. I do not know your work, but you probably deserve a lot more
credit.
Vince,
I think Gavin's attitude is a good one. Our modern culture's
unquestioned religion is innovation, the new, the future. We spend a lot
of time reinventing the wheel. Our preoccupation with the new has turned
into the worship of the grotesque: Novelty for novelties sake.
There are two differing routes (among many) to take for creativity:
we can take the route of individual expression. The hazards of this route
are that the maker can become self-centered and egotistical. Their work
becomes a characture of itself. Another route is to tap into the
archetypal patterns, expressions and forms. You immerse yourself in the
Muse to transcend the confines of a smaller self and draw on something
bigger than you are. This is where all universally great art comes from,
work that is not confined to a time, place or culture. It is work that
will stand the test of time. It is like what Picasso said:
"Painting is stronger than I am. It can make me do whatever it
wants."
-- Pablo Picasso
Vince again:
> >I have found that once one releases oneself from imitation, it is almost
> >impossible to not be original.
The biggest hazard for the artist whose inspiration is self
expression is immitating and copying himself. The problem with this is
that we often don't know we are doing it. If we cut ourselves from the
source, we are only creating a truncated "imitation" of our larger selves.
Jean,
Thank you for the quote below. Blues is my favorite music.
> "There are no new stories to tell, only the old ones told in new ways.
> 'For, while the tale of how we suffer, and how we are delighted, and how
we
> may triumph is never new, it always must be heard. There isn't any other
> tale to tell, it's the only light we've got in all this darkness.' "
--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
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Ron Roy on wed 20 dec 00
I prefer to think there are original ways of expressing ourselves. I also
believe examples of this abound. To say there is no new music would seem
absurd to me. If there is nothing original left to say - or rather an
original way to say the same thing - then why do we find currently written
books interesting?
When we welcome innovation we do have to put up with novelty and less than
artistic offerings - it's the price we have to pay for those gems that come
along once in a while.
I cannot bear the thought of living in a world that is willing to settle
for the same old thing. Boredom is the enemy and I want to encourage all
those brave souls that struggle with their own self expression.
I also think - that if I believe I can - my chances are infinitely better
than if I believe I can't and so I will.
RR
>Our modern culture's unquestioned religion is innovation, the new, the
>>future. We spend a lot of time reinventing the wheel. Our
>preoccupation >with the new has turned into the worship of the grotesque:
>Novelty for >novelties sake.
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
Gayle Bair on wed 20 dec 00
Although my sales were mediocre at
my "big" sale I came away happy.
Numerous complements and comments
"Your work is so different/original".
Several people were so blown away they
had to stop to talk to me.
One person said she never looks a pottery
but my work stopped her. Another was an
art council board member. "Where do you
show your work" led to a long conversation
about how artists are treated by non artists
running galleries. It was great.
Although relatively new to the area I am
establishing myself as an artist.
I held firm on my prices and didn't sell
seconds. Another potter at the site did
sell seconds had $3- $10 xmas stuff and
did very well.
Initially I was upset about the disappointing
sales. I was going to write about it but
knew I had to mull it over first.
I didn't make xmas stuff because I
thought I couldn't compromise my "Art"!
Well last weekend in one of those
middle of the night brainstorms I had
an idea. I made some xmas pieces that do
not compromise my art and will give them
a trial run this Saturday.
Four years ago I started in clay by
emulating work I loved (petroglyphs,
ancient and native American pottery).
I have come into my own style but had to
work my way up through the ranks of art history.
I had to think long and hard about what
I wanted from and for myself as an
artist and potter. My jury is still out.
Do I want recognition, praise, adulation,
money.... I'm not sure need or want those
things. I know I do want to feel that
my work is evolving,
that I am improving technically and am
challenged by new ideas.
Gayle Bair-It took some time but I think
my snob artist nose is out of the air!
I prefer to think there are original ways of expressing ourselves. I also
believe examples of this abound. To say there is no new music would seem
absurd to me. If there is nothing original left to say - or rather an
original way to say the same thing - then why do we find currently written
books interesting?
When we welcome innovation we do have to put up with novelty and less than
artistic offerings - it's the price we have to pay for those gems that come
along once in a while.
I cannot bear the thought of living in a world that is willing to settle
for the same old thing. Boredom is the enemy and I want to encourage all
those brave souls that struggle with their own self expression.
I also think - that if I believe I can - my chances are infinitely better
than if I believe I can't and so I will.
RR
>Our modern culture's unquestioned religion is innovation, the new, the
>>future. We spend a lot of time reinventing the wheel. Our
>preoccupation >with the new has turned into the worship of the grotesque:
>Novelty for >novelties sake.
Ron Roy
93 Pegasus Trail
Scarborough
Ontario, Canada
M1G 3N8
Evenings 416-439-2621
Fax 416-438-7849
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