primalmommy@IVILLAGE.COM on sun 17 dec 00
If you believe Picasso that every child is born an artist but very few survive childhood, then you are both right. We ARE born completely original. We can only create/innovate, having not yet heard a cliche' or seen anything worth copying. But it gets hammered out of us; so it takes a teacher (like mel) to undo the damage, help kids rediscover the potential they were born with.
I hand out my own little essay to the parents of kids who take my clay classes, called "talking to kids about art". Sometimes what kills a kid's trust in his/her own ability is a loving parent's best intentions. Kid brings a scribble to show, parent goes into throes of ecstacy, praise, hangs the scribble on the fridge. That's a lot of pressure on a kid! Especially when they know they didn't have all that much invested in the scribble to begin with. Some quit drawing, for fear that they can't live up to the initial success. Others copy the first "work" over and over, since clearly they did something right and mommy got so excited.
Either way, the lesson learned is that art is something you do for somebody ELSE. For approval, for praise, for a pat on the head or a good grade. We bury kids in extrinsic rewards, gold stars, little treats, applause for everything they do, and then wonder what happens to their joy in learning, their self motivation. We create goal-oriented little hoop jumpers. And frankly, I have yet to meet a parent who can muster as much enthusiasm about the 400th scribble or the drawing of a kid two years older (or ten.) So kids think, "well, I USED to be good at drawing when I was 3 but nobody likes it anymore..."
Also, around 5, we put most kids into a school environment where they are measured, graded and set into competition - if only by the existence of a grading scale - with other students. If they have not yet discovered/developed a skill and others have, they label themselves lousy at it and that's that. (whole other issue, and largely why I homeschool.)
Then we wonder why kids pigeonhole themselves as good at math, lousy at poetry, good at reading, bad at art, etc. Or why they can't appreciate process over product. Or why they are so easily swayed into doing it the "right" way (copying a "good" artist, or parroting a teacher) until they have no innovative voice at all.
I tell parents of little kids: give them all kinds of art supplies and a place where mess is not an issue, and then just stay out of it. If they demand your feedback on their work, say something intelligent about process, or effort, or how different this one is from the previous. If you are forced to choose a favorite aspect, try to arrange for another grown-up to select something different, just to make the point. Parents and teachers are much too godlike to take a heavy hand in art criticism with a person just learning to hold a crayon/brush/lump of clay. If a kid chooses to keep something, fine. If not, teach them to chuck it, start over; the joy is in the making. Process, not product. "they're just pots, make more".
The pressure to do it right - as defined by someone else - kills most artists in childhood, in my humble opinion. It took me elementary art ed classes (which horrified me to the point of changing majors), julia cameron's book, and a workshop with mel to be able to undo some of my own childhood programming.
I hunched over the wheel, afraid to take any risks with the clay, afraid I'd ruin any pot that actually started to look good, overworking the clay and repeating any meager successes. And mel came up and put his hand on my shoulder and said, "Kelly, you're not THAT good. If we took every pot you made this week - and mine and Dannons and everyone's - and threw them into the gulley, the art world would not have lost a thing." It was the most freeing thing anyone had ever said to me. No grade, no gold star, nobody running to tape it to the fridge. That simple and probably oft-repeated point handed me back the full charge of my work, and I had a glorious workshop wrecking pots; pushing too far, pulling too high, trying something stupid, really learning. Making nice pots, occasionally, by accident; trimming them, admiring them, and sinking them into the scrap bucket.
That self-critical student voice that says "I suck" is so sad, because it comes from a false notion that the measure of our work is the world's applause, not the evolution of our own skills and visions.
sorry this got long. I do like this topic.
Yours, Kelly in Ohio (where the trees look coated in clear glaze from a winter ice storm)
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Diane G. Echlin on sun 17 dec 00
Kelly,
Your post really hit home with me. As the mom of a very prolific 5 year
old artist, I can't count the times I have groveled an apology to my
daughter who has found a materpiece in the garbage because there is
simply no more room on the fridge/wall/my desk. I try not to go
overboard with praise of her work because I don't want her to supect
insincerity on my part and then discount all of my opinions out of
hand. Maybe it's time for me to ask her to choose the works that will
go into the "round file" to make room for more recent pieces. And
before anyone thinks I'm totally heartless about my daughter's work, let
me reassure you I have a scrapbook of drawings and paintings that I
think are truly remarkable, like the first time she wrote "mommy I lov
yu" on a picture depicting the two of us holding hands.
I'm printing out this post to keep on my wall amongst the many mel
quotes and Tony C stories.
Thanks!
Diane in CT
primalmommy@IVILLAGE.COM wrote:
>
> If you believe Picasso that every child is born an artist but very few survive childhood, then you are both right. We ARE born completely original. We can only create/innovate, having not yet heard a cliche' or seen anything worth copying. But it gets hammered out of us; so it takes a teacher (like mel) to undo the damage, help kids rediscover the potential they were born with.
>
> I hand out my own little essay to the parents of kids who take my clay classes, called "talking to kids about art". Sometimes what kills a kid's trust in his/her own ability is a loving parent's best intentions. Kid brings a scribble to show, parent goes into throes of ecstacy, praise, hangs the scribble on the fridge. That's a lot of pressure on a kid! Especially when they know they didn't have all that much invested in the scribble to begin with. Some quit drawing, for fear that they can't live up to the initial success. Others copy the first "work" over and over, since clearly they did something right and mommy got so excited.
>
> Either way, the lesson learned is that art is something you do for somebody ELSE. For approval, for praise, for a pat on the head or a good grade. We bury kids in extrinsic rewards, gold stars, little treats, applause for everything they do, and then wonder what happens to their joy in learning, their self motivation. We create goal-oriented little hoop jumpers. And frankly, I have yet to meet a parent who can muster as much enthusiasm about the 400th scribble or the drawing of a kid two years older (or ten.) So kids think, "well, I USED to be good at drawing when I was 3 but nobody likes it anymore..."
>
> Also, around 5, we put most kids into a school environment where they are measured, graded and set into competition - if only by the existence of a grading scale - with other students. If they have not yet discovered/developed a skill and others have, they label themselves lousy at it and that's that. (whole other issue, and largely why I homeschool.)
>
> Then we wonder why kids pigeonhole themselves as good at math, lousy at poetry, good at reading, bad at art, etc. Or why they can't appreciate process over product. Or why they are so easily swayed into doing it the "right" way (copying a "good" artist, or parroting a teacher) until they have no innovative voice at all.
>
> I tell parents of little kids: give them all kinds of art supplies and a place where mess is not an issue, and then just stay out of it. If they demand your feedback on their work, say something intelligent about process, or effort, or how different this one is from the previous. If you are forced to choose a favorite aspect, try to arrange for another grown-up to select something different, just to make the point. Parents and teachers are much too godlike to take a heavy hand in art criticism with a person just learning to hold a crayon/brush/lump of clay. If a kid chooses to keep something, fine. If not, teach them to chuck it, start over; the joy is in the making. Process, not product. "they're just pots, make more".
>
> The pressure to do it right - as defined by someone else - kills most artists in childhood, in my humble opinion. It took me elementary art ed classes (which horrified me to the point of changing majors), julia cameron's book, and a workshop with mel to be able to undo some of my own childhood programming.
>
> I hunched over the wheel, afraid to take any risks with the clay, afraid I'd ruin any pot that actually started to look good, overworking the clay and repeating any meager successes. And mel came up and put his hand on my shoulder and said, "Kelly, you're not THAT good. If we took every pot you made this week - and mine and Dannons and everyone's - and threw them into the gulley, the art world would not have lost a thing." It was the most freeing thing anyone had ever said to me. No grade, no gold star, nobody running to tape it to the fridge. That simple and probably oft-repeated point handed me back the full charge of my work, and I had a glorious workshop wrecking pots; pushing too far, pulling too high, trying something stupid, really learning. Making nice pots, occasionally, by accident; trimming them, admiring them, and sinking them into the scrap bucket.
>
> That self-critical student voice that says "I suck" is so sad, because it comes from a false notion that the measure of our work is the world's applause, not the evolution of our own skills and visions.
>
> sorry this got long. I do like this topic.
>
> Yours, Kelly in Ohio (where the trees look coated in clear glaze from a winter ice storm)
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> iVillage.com: Solutions for Your Life
> Check out the most exciting women's community on the Web
> http://www.ivillage.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Martin Howard on sun 17 dec 00
Kelly in Ohio seems to be sending me a personal message here.
I was once good at landscape painting of trees, when I was about 14/15.
Loved making mucky greens and followed that on into my Town Planning life
when drawing layouts and colouring them up. They were good. (I was a bighead
then and it hasn't gone, yet.)
But I could never draw, freehand style; the kind of stuff I need now to add
some indefinable finish to my pots. So Mum or Dad said the wrong thing to me
sometime? Quite possible. I can remember scribbling on the bedroom wall and
Dad was a teacher.
So, is there anyone out there in GB who could put the matter right now?
I am prepared to dedicate a week or more during the next year on a course
which really makes me draw on pots, freehand, with slip and/or glaze.
Last year I had a week at Tavistock in Devon, just throwing identical (or
almost) pots under the eyes of a commercial repetition thrower. That was
excellent and I would recommend it to any adult, but not a young child. It
could boor a child rather quickly:-)
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
Wood Jeanne on mon 18 dec 00
Hi Kelly & All,
I'm not sure I agree with you on all of this one.
snippity:
--- primalmommy@IVILLAGE.COM wrote:
> If you believe Picasso that every child is born an
> artist but very few survive childhood, then you are
> both right.
We ARE born completely original. We can
> only create/innovate, having not yet heard a cliche'
> or seen anything worth copying. But it gets hammered
> out of us; so it takes a teacher (like mel) to undo
> the damage, help kids rediscover the potential they
> were born with.
The fact is kids learn through imitation. For
instance, they don't hear language spoken, they don't
learn to speak themselves.
There are also developmental stages that kids go
through with their art like their language. The
scribble of a 1 year old has considerably different
aspects than a 18 month old, or a 2 year old.
Another easily recognizable developmental aspect of
kids'art is their absolute insistence of drawing
"rays" on a sun. There are plenty more.
> I hand out my own little essay to the parents of
> kids who take my clay classes, called "talking to
> kids about art". Sometimes what kills a kid's trust
> in his/her own ability is a loving parent's best
> intentions. Kid brings a scribble to show, parent
> goes into throes of ecstacy, praise, hangs the
> scribble on the fridge. That's a lot of pressure on
> a kid! Especially when they know they didn't have
> all that much invested in the scribble to begin
> with. Some quit drawing, for fear that they can't
> live up to the initial success. Others copy the
> first "work" over and over, since clearly they did
> something right and mommy got so excited.
>
> Either way, the lesson learned is that art is
> something you do for somebody ELSE. For approval,
> for praise, for a pat on the head or a good grade.
> We bury kids in extrinsic rewards, gold stars,
> little treats, applause for everything they do, and
> then wonder what happens to their joy in learning,
> their self motivation. We create goal-oriented
> little hoop jumpers. And frankly, I have yet to meet
> a parent who can muster as much enthusiasm about the
> 400th scribble or the drawing of a kid two years
> older (or ten.) So kids think, "well, I USED to be
> good at drawing when I was 3 but nobody likes it
> anymore..."
I also see quite a few very talented children who work
constantly hide their art & not show anyone. (This may
be because well-meaning, but verbally unsophisticated
people gush over it :-) )
> Also, around 5, we put most kids into a school
> environment where they are measured, graded and set
> into competition - if only by the existence of a
> grading scale - with other students. If they have
> not yet discovered/developed a skill and others
> have, they label themselves lousy at it and that's
> that. (whole other issue, and largely why I
> homeschool.)
>
> Then we wonder why kids pigeonhole themselves as
> good at math, lousy at poetry, good at reading, bad
> at art, etc. Or why they can't appreciate process
> over product. Or why they are so easily swayed into
> doing it the "right" way (copying a "good" artist,
> or parroting a teacher) until they have no
> innovative voice at all.
There are a lot of people who quit art due to
insensitive teachers, and that makes me grieve. But at
the same time how many people DON'T have a
"mean-mouthed teacher" story? How many people on this
list encountered nothing but wise guidance and
encouragement their entire student career? Not many
I'll bet.
Meeting the occasional rude jerk in a position of
power is part of life, and a part we have to learn to
cope with. It does not have to destroy us It's not
fair, but neither is life.(-If the child is not
actually suffering abuse-)
Like Mel said "hold on like a bulldog" or hold on like
a bulldog puppy.
>
> I tell parents of little kids: give them all kinds
> of art supplies and a place where mess is not an
> issue, and then just stay out of it. If they demand
> your feedback on their work, say something
> intelligent about process, or effort, or how
> different this one is from the previous.
I agree with this idea!!
If you are
> forced to choose a favorite aspect, try to arrange
> for another grown-up to select something different,
> just to make the point. Parents and teachers are
> much too godlike to take a heavy hand in art
> criticism with a person just learning to hold a
> crayon/brush/lump of clay. If a kid chooses to keep
> something, fine. If not, teach them to chuck it,
> start over; the joy is in the making. Process, not
> product. "they're just pots, make more".
I think it takes adult maturity & judgment to chuck
work, it's not a natural act for children. and I don't
believe this notcaring about their work attitude
should be forced on children.
I recently watched one of my students painstakingly
create a dinosaur, then, after getting it out of the
kiln he giggled while he destroyed it. A red alert in
the back of my mind sounded.
I saw a "I don't care about anything" attitude, not an
"I can make more, it's just a pot" attitude.
Regards,
Jeanne W. _
__________________________________________________
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Veronica Honthaas on mon 18 dec 00
Rather than ask you 5 year old which masterpieces should go in the round
file, you might ask her which pictures should go on display.You decide the
number and she picks the pieces. The rest can be filed for the time being
in the square file (cardboard box). That is what the attic is for.Veronica
have groveled an apology to my
>daughter who has found a materpiece in the garbage because there is
>simply no more room on the fridge/wall/my desk.
Cindy Strnad on mon 18 dec 00
Actually, leaving it up to the artist has worked well with my refrigerator.
It will vary with every child, I'm sure. I tell her, "This is wonderful. I
wish we had a bigger refrigerator. Some of these pictures have been up here
for a long time, though. If you'd like to do something else with them, we
could put up your new one.
She throws them away of her own accord.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on mon 18 dec 00
I have kept as many of my daughter's scribblings, drawings, cartoons,
photographs, poems, papers...as was humanly possible. I did this because my
own mother threw out ALL of my drawings, paintings, papers, etc...and I went
to art school on Saturdays from the age of 8. She never displayed any of my
drawings. She sent me a very strong message. I was determined not to do
that to my daughter, even if she never became an artist. I never throw
anything out without her permission. Now, she loves going through her old
stuff. Think about what message you are sending to your child. What if
your mother went through your pots and threw the ones she didn't like in the
garbage? Never think that the value kids put on objects is the same as
yours. Every drawing took time and effort. Just like your pots. Having her
make choices about her work, as Veronica suggests, is a wonderful learning
experience for her since she has to use her aesthetic judgement.
My daughter and I still argue about who gets which of her old "musclemen"
miniature people. These little pieces of plastic are fantastically
detailed. The designers of these figures were/are brilliant. I suppose
other parents would just through them out... I get inspired and want to
make pots based on them...
Sandy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Veronica Honthaas [SMTP:honthaas@EMAIL.BIGSKY.NET]
> Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 11:16 AM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: art and learning, vince and mel
>
> Rather than ask you 5 year old which masterpieces should go in the round
> file, you might ask her which pictures should go on display.You decide the
> number and she picks the pieces. The rest can be filed for the time being
> in the square file (cardboard box). That is what the attic is for.Veronica
>
>
> have groveled an apology to my
> >daughter who has found a materpiece in the garbage because there is
> >simply no more room on the fridge/wall/my desk.
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> ____
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
ARTISTINSC@AOL.COM on mon 18 dec 00
I have 2 children's portfolios, one each for my 2 grandchildren, and I retire
the work from the refrigerator and wall to the portfolio for each child and
will put it away for them to have when they are grown and when one is
especially nice it goes into a frame onto the hallway.
My mother never saved anything i did as a child or adult, refrigerator or
not, and even removed some flat 2D artwork i framed and shipped to her at
great expense to myself, from coast to coast when i was a struggling college
student, she removed the work i did and put pictures from a magazine and
let me sleep in the room where my frames were on the wall and my work was in
the hall closet faced against the wall. The hurt will terrible to me and a
child could be heart stricken to find work in the trash, too.
M.
Judith S. Labovitz on mon 18 dec 00
interesting...my mother did the same thing...including sending me to art
school, but NEVER displaying anything I ever did...this went on until she
died at 75, and I, as an adult child, could never make a pot (or
anything else) that met her standards....and I tried to stop trying
MY adult children tease me because some of THEIR early things are STILL
on display in my home....
At 02:51 PM 12/18/00 -0500, you wrote:
>I have kept as many of my daughter's scribblings, drawings, cartoons,
>photographs, poems, papers...as was humanly possible. I did this because my
>own mother threw out ALL of my drawings, paintings, papers, etc...and I went
>to art school on Saturdays from the age of 8. She never displayed any of my
>drawings. She sent me a very strong message. I was determined not to do
>that to my daughter, even if she never became an artist. I never throw
>anything out without her permission. Now, she loves going through her old
>stuff. Think about what message you are sending to your child. What if
>your mother went through your pots and threw the ones she didn't like in the
>garbage? Never think that the value kids put on objects is the same as
>yours. Every drawing took time and effort. Just like your pots. Having her
>make choices about her work, as Veronica suggests, is a wonderful learning
>experience for her since she has to use her aesthetic judgement.
>
>My daughter and I still argue about who gets which of her old "musclemen"
>miniature people. These little pieces of plastic are fantastically
>detailed. The designers of these figures were/are brilliant. I suppose
>other parents would just through them out... I get inspired and want to
>make pots based on them...
>Sandy
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Veronica Honthaas [SMTP:honthaas@EMAIL.BIGSKY.NET]
> > Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 11:16 AM
> > To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Subject: Re: art and learning, vince and mel
> >
> > Rather than ask you 5 year old which masterpieces should go in the round
> > file, you might ask her which pictures should go on display.You decide the
> > number and she picks the pieces. The rest can be filed for the time being
> > in the square file (cardboard box). That is what the attic is for.Veronica
> >
> >
> > have groveled an apology to my
> > >daughter who has found a materpiece in the garbage because there is
> > >simply no more room on the fridge/wall/my desk.
> >
> > __________________________________________________________________________
> > ____
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Veronica Honthaas on mon 18 dec 00
Even when my daughter was a senior in high school I put her art projects
all over the house, the walls, the office, the fridge, etc. This week I was
doing my Christmas cleaning and took most of them down. She'll be home from
college this Friday with a new batch of art projects I can
hang!!!!!!!Veronica
Leona Stonebridge Arthen on tue 19 dec 00
My mother saved everything I did from drawings to papers to paintings and
pottery from Kindergarten on up. She died twelve years ago and a few years
ago, my father sold the house and everything in it was gotten rid of. He
didn't even keep the portrait of my son I did for them. He died in August.
Now its all gone. I thnk keeping things is good although I'm not as
obsessive about it as Mom was. I enjoy the pictures and things I was able
to salvage (because I knew they were there).
Leona
---
Leona Stonebridge Arthen
leona@javanet.com
Worthington, Massachusetts/USA
Janet Kaiser on wed 20 dec 00
> The fact is kids learn through imitation.
So how come a blind baby can and will smile?
I believe the jury is still out on "nature
versus nurture".
Just a thought
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
Wood Jeanne on thu 21 dec 00
Hello,
--- Janet Kaiser
wrote:
> > The fact is kids learn through imitation.
>
> So how come a blind baby can and will smile?
Great question!
There are some things we do that are instinctual, like
early smiles.
Selma Frailberg in a 1974 study found that blind
babies begin to smile at about the same age as sighted
babies but that they smile less often. And at about 2
months, when the sighted baby begins to smile
regularly at the sight of the parent's face, the blind
baby's smiles become less and less frequent (no
feedback). The blind infant's smile is also less
intense, more fleeting.
The blind child can be re-taught to smile though.
I worked with a small blind child and would guide her
hand to my mouth and tell her (for example) that I was
smiling because she made me happy. She would feel my
face, then feel her own face and cause herself to
smile (tactile imitation). After a bit of time, her
smiles came more naturally when she was happy or
amused. (Those of us who know her are convinced she
will be the U.S.'s first female president).
A lot of the questions people have about the
progression and changes in children's art can be
answered by a good developmental psychology book. Some
of the changes kids art go through are a natural
progress (ala Piaget) and not simply due to lack of
support from important people in the child's life. If
caring adults are aware of this they won't panic when
they see some formal changes.
Of course, insensitive comments & behavior to the kids
are counter productive and should be stopped.
>
> I believe the jury is still out on "nature
> versus nurture".
I'll take 6 of one and half-dozen of the other. ;-)
Regards,
Jeanne W.
(Who is NOT an expert, just interested. & will send
more information about the study to anyone interested
enough to post me)
> Just a thought
>
> Janet Kaiser
> The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
> HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
> Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
> E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
> WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
>
> _
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Jennifer F Boyer on thu 21 dec 00
Thank you Janet,
I have a small nature vs nurture experiment in my household of
2 children. Both were raised in a "maker's" environment: that's
what I am and that's the environment that comes naturally. My
house is filled with my mother's pastels, and my father's
photographs of birds.
Jessica age 24: when she first put pencil to paper as a wee
thing, she drew closed circles. Everything in her world has a
visual impact on her. She is pursuing fiber art and sewing as
an adult. She's practically never bought a greeting card. Makes
them. She took her own senior picture: used the vacuum cleaner
tube to bump the shutter, with the camera on a tripod facing
her. She draws wonderfully, lays food on a platter
wonderfully, dresses wonderfully. Is visual in EVERY way. Made a
wall of legos with JESSICA written in the side in a contrasting
color. Took her hours. Driven.
Tim age 16: Bravely tried to draw and do the visual projects
available at home and at school: 3 words that I never thought I
would EVER say about a child: he's not artistic. HE'S NOT. I
almost asked his teachers to quit making him draw so much. It
tortured him. And he had the exact same environment at home that
his sister did. Plus thay are 8 years apart so there was no
comparison, or competition from her: only support. There isn't
a visual bone in his body. Not one. That's okay! He's a
wonderful person and has gifts that are awesome: like herding
the new, nervous varsity basketball team(it's his second year)
members to his house to have a party before the first game. He's
good, so good. Always upbeat, always funny. Had to make him stop
tackling me(for fun) to the floor when he hit 13. It Hurt!
Some people just aren't visual. My husband, my son. They
shouldn't be made to feel like second class humans......I think
that visual sensitivity and the urge to "make" are to some
extent inborn. There's probably a spectrum. My guys are on one
end of it. But they are "whole" in their own way......they are
not failures.
Take Care
Jennifer, happy to have the whole family home for the holidays!
Janet Kaiser wrote:
>
> > The fact is kids learn through imitation.
>
> So how come a blind baby can and will smile?
>
> I believe the jury is still out on "nature
> versus nurture".
>
> Just a thought
>
> Janet Kaiser
> The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
> HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
> Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
> E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
> WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer mailto:jboyer@adelphia.net
Thistle Hill Pottery
95 Powder Horn Glen Rd
Montpelier, VT 05602 USA
802-223-8926
http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/
Check out this searchable sites about web hoaxes:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/science/urbanlegends/library/blhoax.htm
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Thom Mead on fri 22 dec 00
I've found that even the ones who seem "completely" non visual
end up finding some voice that has a visual bent.
I have a friend who is 20 years older, so unlike me he qualifies as senio=
r.
Retired from business.
Now spends lots of time on landscape stuff. As I look at the results, and=
the =20
amazing amount of time and effort put into it, I realize that this creati=
ve urge is =20
almost identical to painting. That boxwood here. That kind of mulch over =
there.
The similarities are great. He uses a magnolia in his landscape (real) th=
e same way I use one in my 2-d world of paint.
and he claims to be non-visual.
diane in ga.
Some people just aren't visual. My husband, my son. They
shouldn't be made to feel like second class humans......I think
that visual sensitivity and the urge to "make" are to some
extent inborn. There's probably a spectrum. My guys are on one
end of it. But they are "whole" in their own way......they are
not failures.
Take Care
Jennifer, happy to have the whole family home for the holidays!
Janet Kaiser wrote:
>
> > The fact is kids learn through imitation.
>
> So how come a blind baby can and will smile?
>
> I believe the jury is still out on "nature
> versus nurture".
>
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at "http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com
Casey Carol on fri 22 dec 00
What a great story. I would be interested in more
information . . . not an expert, but I'm really
interested in how we become human.
Thanks,
Carol
--- Wood Jeanne wrote:
> Hello,
>
> --- Janet Kaiser
> wrote:
> > > The fact is kids learn through imitation.
> >
> > So how come a blind baby can and will smile?
>
> Great question!
> There are some things we do that are instinctual,
> like
> early smiles.
>
> Selma Frailberg in a 1974 study found that blind
> babies begin to smile at about the same age as
> sighted
> babies but that they smile less often. And at about
> 2
> months, when the sighted baby begins to smile
> regularly at the sight of the parent's face, the
> blind
> baby's smiles become less and less frequent (no
> feedback). The blind infant's smile is also less
> intense, more fleeting.
>
> The blind child can be re-taught to smile though.
>
> I worked with a small blind child and would guide
> her
> hand to my mouth and tell her (for example) that I
> was
> smiling because she made me happy. She would feel my
> face, then feel her own face and cause herself to
> smile (tactile imitation). After a bit of time, her
> smiles came more naturally when she was happy or
> amused. (Those of us who know her are convinced she
> will be the U.S.'s first female president).
>
> A lot of the questions people have about the
> progression and changes in children's art can be
> answered by a good developmental psychology book.
> Some
> of the changes kids art go through are a natural
> progress (ala Piaget) and not simply due to lack of
> support from important people in the child's life.
> If
> caring adults are aware of this they won't panic
> when
> they see some formal changes.
>
> Of course, insensitive comments & behavior to the
> kids
> are counter productive and should be stopped.
> >
> > I believe the jury is still out on "nature
> > versus nurture".
>
> I'll take 6 of one and half-dozen of the other. ;-)
>
> Regards,
> Jeanne W.
> (Who is NOT an expert, just interested. & will send
> more information about the study to anyone
> interested
> enough to post me)
>
> > Just a thought
> >
> > Janet Kaiser
> > The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
> > HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
> > Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
> > E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
> > WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
> >
> > _
>
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______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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>
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> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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