June Perry on mon 18 dec 00
This morning I was just reading the Sunday, LA Times and see that Castaic
Brick Company, which uses natural gas to fire their brick kilns, have had
their month gas bill go from $36,000 a month to $300,000 a month. To be
competitve, they can't sell a bricks more than $.25 each, so they are now
contemplating suspending operations and laying off 104 employees.
California industries are paying six times more than other states for the
same energy right now, and because of the environemental laws, many
California industries had to give up their diesel oil tanks so they have no
back up energy to offset the current costs of electricity and natural gas.
When this California energy crisis began, I told my husband that this was a
potential economic disaster, that would create a domino effect that could put
us into a recession and it seems that we may be headed that way if they don't
get this thing under control. :-(
Regards,
June
Kenneth D. Westfall on thu 21 dec 00
>A great deal of the problems with the natural gas costs are related to over
>zealous environmentalism. (I know I stepped in it here but it is true.)
The slapping of such broad labels of blame helps no one. Wes Rolley letter
points out a a lot of the problems but still falls short. There is also
the issue of refinery and petroleum producers buying imported oil.
Instead of investing money into producing oil on there own they have been
buying it from else where. Very little exploration is done for Natural
gas. Most of the Natural gas produced in the USA is a buy-product of
producing Oil, its the added gravy on the dinner! The largest Natural gas
transmission pipe line company in the USA has the ground storage not far
from my home. They move gas from Texas to the East coast with out any
problem. Some how I find it hard to understand the shortage in Ca. Surely
there is a pipe lines from Texas to CA and the Gas could be moved in the
other direction. WV produce a lot of Natural gas and I haven't seen a
hole a lot of demand to sell gas off of the wells in my area. Looks like
just one more time that we are being screwed by Big Business Oil and the
News media will soon have it whipped up so we can blame the Government
and environmentalism again.
Kenneth D. Westfall
Pine Hill Pottery
R.D. #2 Box 6AA
Harrisville, WV 26362
pinehill@ruralnet.org
http://www.pinehillpottery.com
ferenc jakab on thu 21 dec 00
----- Original Message -----
From: "June Perry"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 19 December 2000 2:53 am
Subject: Ca. brick mfg may have to lay off 104 due to gas costs.
Why is California suffering such a crisis?
Feri.
A puzzled Australian frightened because we import all your bad trends!
Michelle Moody on thu 21 dec 00
A great deal of the problems with the natural gas costs are related to over
zealous environmentalism. (I know I stepped in it here but it is true.)
Instead of allowing environmentally sound natural gas drilling large
deposits of gas were placed off limits on federal lands. Now Californians
are having to lay in the bed they have made for themselves.
--Randall--
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "June Perry"
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, 19 December 2000 2:53 am
> Subject: Ca. brick mfg may have to lay off 104 due to gas costs.
>
> Why is California suffering such a crisis?
> Feri.
>
> A puzzled Australian frightened because we import all your bad trends!
Beth Donovan on thu 21 dec 00
California is having energy trouble because they have refused to authorize
any new powerplants for years because of environmental concerns. Some of
these concerns may have been valid, but from what I have read, many projects
were not approved because of the political strength in California of extreme
environmenalist organizations. Now, with the energy crisis there, new plants
are suddenly being approved.
Not all of the country follows California, but many trends do start there.
I like the middle, myself.
Beth in snowy, cold Kansas
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of ferenc jakab
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2000 5:53 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Ca. brick mfg may have to lay off 104 due to gas costs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "June Perry"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, 19 December 2000 2:53 am
Subject: Ca. brick mfg may have to lay off 104 due to gas costs.
Why is California suffering such a crisis?
Feri.
A puzzled Australian frightened because we import all your bad trends!
____________________________________________________________________________
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June Perry on thu 21 dec 00
Feri, I think it all has to do with de-regulation of the energy industry, for
one thing. The other, is the supposed energy shortage along with a colder
than normal winter.
>From what I understand, some states like California which use a lot of
energy, typically can pull from neighbors when their system gets low , but
with the projected shortages, some states can and may be opting to hold on
to what they have and this can drive the prices up in places of high usage.
I'm hoping someone on the list has more knowlege and information on all this
to share.
Regards,
June
>
>
>
Don Hunt on thu 21 dec 00
Recently a power production plant which was already approved as having met all
environmental requirements, has been delayed or canceled due to protests by local
Chicano rights activists as "environmental racism" they charged "you always put
these things in our neighborhoods". I wish I could live near the Encina power
plant. SoCals will know what I mean.
Michelle Moody wrote:
> A great deal of the problems with the natural gas costs are related to over
> zealous environmentalism. (I know I stepped in it here but it is true.)
> Instead of allowing environmentally sound natural gas drilling large
> deposits of gas were placed off limits on federal lands. Now Californians
> are having to lay in the bed they have made for themselves.
> --Randall--
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "June Perry"
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, 19 December 2000 2:53 am
> > Subject: Ca. brick mfg may have to lay off 104 due to gas costs.
> >
> > Why is California suffering such a crisis?
> > Feri.
> >
> > A puzzled Australian frightened because we import all your bad trends!
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Milton Markey on thu 21 dec 00
Hi Everyone!
I think it's unfortunate that the energy issue has gone out of hand. Yes,
deregulation of power utilities (gas, electric, etc.) is a pain in the
pocket-book. And, the brick makers in N. CA are now getting pink slips over
the Holidays.
I understand that an aluminum manufacturer in Washington State has decided to
no longer make aluminum. Instead, the company will sell it's electric options
to the power companies--and make $$$. That's another 1-2,000 employees with
pink slips this late December.
I think this isn't just a matter of concern for those of us living in
California. Since a great number of states have become deregulated, this
power utility issue could affect most of the nation.
In California, the Public Utilities Board is considering a request from its
two largest electric utilities, to raise electric rates. Edison International
claims it can't stay in business in CA, if deregulation continues, and it
can't raise the electric bills 10-20%.
That's the grim reality. I hope Australia doesn't take a fancy to this
industrial nonesense.
Milton NakedClay@AOL.COM
Craig Martell on thu 21 dec 00
Hi:
California has deregulated stuff in terms of energy production. What this
means is energy producers are not controlled in regard to what they will
charge for producing energy. They are selling energy to the Utility
companys that supply this to "the little guy" at costs as much as 3000%
higher than they were before deregulation. The Utilities are still
controlled and can't send inflated rates to consumers so they are pretty
much going broke. They aren't and can't buy enough energy from
profiteering producers.
Oregon has been ordered to sell energy generated by plants controlled by
the Bonneville Power Administration to California. The govenor of
California, Diane Feinstien, has asked that Oregon not be allowed to adjust
rates for power sold to California Utilities. Fine, but why didn't the
California legislature go for non-deregulation and tell THEIR power
companies they couldn't gouge the hell out of the Utility companies in Cal??
Sorry but I think this is super OT, Craig Martell in Oregon
Larry Phillips on thu 21 dec 00
Michelle Moody wrote:
>
> A great deal of the problems with the natural gas costs are related to over
> zealous environmentalism. (I know I stepped in it here but it is true.)
> Instead of allowing environmentally sound natural gas drilling large
> deposits of gas were placed off limits on federal lands. Now Californians
> are having to lay in the bed they have made for themselves.
Others have to lie in the same bed as well. The shortage in CA has
caused higher prices in BC. Of course when prices are high, the
government reaps its extra few pounds of flesh, and the consumer gets it
in the neck.
--
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
http://cr347197-a.surrey1.bc.wave.home.com/larry/
Larry Phillips on thu 21 dec 00
Craig Martell wrote:
>
> Sorry but I think this is super OT, Craig Martell in Oregon
Not if you run a gas kiln, it isn't.
--
If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much room!
http://cr347197-a.surrey1.bc.wave.home.com/larry/
TERRANCE LAZAROFF on thu 21 dec 00
------Original Message------
From: June Perry
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: December 21, 2000 3:23:23 PM GMT
Subject: Re: Ca. brick mfg may have to lay off 104 due to gas costs.
Feri, I think it all has to do with de-regulation of the energy industry,
for
one thing. The other, is the supposed energy shortage along with a colder
than normal winter.
>From what I understand, some states like California which use a lot of
energy, typically can pull from neighbors when their system gets low , but
with the projected shortages, some states can and may be opting to hold on
to what they have and this can drive the prices up in places of high usage.
Let us face it. There is only so much energy stored in fossil fuels. We
best start looking at the wind, the sun and the waves for our energy. It is
going to be a long hard future when it comes to energy. We will have to
start to shut down some of our power pigs and who knows start to use cow
dung to fire our pots.
Terrance
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
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ferenc jakab on fri 22 dec 00
> Feri, I think it all has to do with de-regulation of the energy industry,
for
> one thing. The other, is the supposed energy shortage along with a colder
> than normal winter.
June,
It seems we have already imported those bad trends, Deregulation and
Privatisation.................Shudder!
Feri.
ferenc jakab on fri 22 dec 00
>
> That's the grim reality. I hope Australia doesn't take a fancy to this
> industrial nonesense.
Milton,
We already have. Our once public utilities are now owned by foreign
companies and our electricity bills are rising out of step with inflation.
Feri.
Casey Carol on fri 22 dec 00
I agree that solar power is a good way to go and wind
and whatever else. I'm not sure about this, but what
I've heard happened the last time we had a power
problem and small solar people started to proliferate
was that the technology and rights to it were bought
by oil companies and large corporations, then
jettisoned. Now some power companies are working with
"photovoltaics," but what bothers me about that is
that the access to what is essentially solar power.
And I think Wes is right that changing covenants like
the one in his neighborhood is necessary.
Carol
--- TERRANCE LAZAROFF wrote:
> ------Original Message------
> From: June Perry
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Sent: December 21, 2000 3:23:23 PM GMT
> Subject: Re: Ca. brick mfg may have to lay off 104
> due to gas costs.
>
>
> Feri, I think it all has to do with de-regulation of
> the energy industry,
> for
> one thing. The other, is the supposed energy
> shortage along with a colder
> than normal winter.
> >From what I understand, some states like California
> which use a lot of
> energy, typically can pull from neighbors when
> their system gets low , but
> with the projected shortages, some states can and
> may be opting to hold on
> to what they have and this can drive the prices up
> in places of high usage.
>
>
> Let us face it. There is only so much energy stored
> in fossil fuels. We
> best start looking at the wind, the sun and the
> waves for our energy. It is
> going to be a long hard future when it comes to
> energy. We will have to
> start to shut down some of our power pigs and who
> knows start to use cow
> dung to fire our pots.
>
> Terrance
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> FREE! The World's Best Email Address @email.com
> Reserve your name now at http://www.email.com
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
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>
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> your subscription
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Michael A. Turton on fri 22 dec 00
Casey Carol wrote:
> . I'm not sure about this, but what
> I've heard happened the last time we had a power
> problem and small solar people started to proliferate
> was that the technology and rights to it were bought
> by oil companies and large corporations, then
> jettisoned.
>
> Carol
The renewable energy companies purchased by large oil companies
were not jettisoned. The oil giant Enron, for example, is now a strong presence
in the wind sector. What actually happened is the Reagan and Bush
administrations, put into office to serve the needs of big oil,
eviscerated US renewable energy research, development, and subsidy
programs. The US has probably the worst renewable energy
planning program among the major industrial nations. Europe is
simply blowing us away. Sad part is we have the best tech, too. As a result of
our stupidity, tiny Denmark's share of the global wind power market
is greater than all other nations combined. Denmark itself is implementing
an ambitious program to increase the share of power from renewables
to 50% by 2030, but I suspect from the tremendous growth, that
they will reach that sooner. Had the Reagan administration spent
the $50 billion wasted on missile defense on a crash wind/solar
program, we'd be deriving most of national electric power from
wind by now, not to mention ruling world markets. A sad affair.
hopefully the California experience will convince
regulators that deregulating energy markets is really a dumb idea.
Is anyone on the list actually running a kiln using an off-grid power
source like a small hydro dam or a wind system?
Michael Turton
Casey Carol on fri 22 dec 00
Thanks for that info, depressing though it is. I'd be
interested to hear about people running kilns off grid
.. . . Wasn't there an article somewhere about solar
kilns? How could that be possible?
Of course, I'm about to sign off for about a week, so
I'll have to check the archives. I've enjoyed this
discussion. And I get an education (as well as a lot
of laughs) from everyone on the list.
Wishing everyone a good, happy time over whatever
holidays you happen to be celebrating.
Carol
--- "Michael A. Turton" wrote:
> Casey Carol wrote:
>
> > . I'm not sure about this, but what
> > I've heard happened the last time we had a power
> > problem and small solar people started to
> proliferate
> > was that the technology and rights to it were
> bought
> > by oil companies and large corporations, then
> > jettisoned.
> >
> > Carol
>
> The renewable energy companies purchased by large
> oil companies
> were not jettisoned. The oil giant Enron, for
> example, is now a strong presence
> in the wind sector. What actually happened is the
> Reagan and Bush
> administrations, put into office to serve the needs
> of big oil,
> eviscerated US renewable energy research,
> development, and subsidy
> programs. The US has probably the worst renewable
> energy
> planning program among the major industrial nations.
> Europe is
> simply blowing us away. Sad part is we have the best
> tech, too. As a result of
> our stupidity, tiny Denmark's share of the global
> wind power market
> is greater than all other nations combined. Denmark
> itself is implementing
> an ambitious program to increase the share of power
> from renewables
> to 50% by 2030, but I suspect from the tremendous
> growth, that
> they will reach that sooner. Had the Reagan
> administration spent
> the $50 billion wasted on missile defense on a crash
> wind/solar
> program, we'd be deriving most of national electric
> power from
> wind by now, not to mention ruling world markets. A
> sad affair.
>
>
> hopefully the California experience will
> convince
> regulators that deregulating energy markets is
> really a dumb idea.
>
> Is anyone on the list actually running a kiln using
> an off-grid power
> source like a small hydro dam or a wind system?
>
> Michael Turton
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
__________________________________________________
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Mert & Holly Kilpatrick on fri 22 dec 00
A different viewpoint on the California energy situation - long but very
interesting if you have the patience to get through it.
http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?control=575
Holly
Milton Markey on sun 24 dec 00
In a message dated 12/21/00 2:43:44 PM Pacific Standard Time,
ashglaze@TELEPORT.COM writes:
> The govenor of
> California, Diane Feinstien, has asked that Oregon not be allowed to adjust
> rates for power sold to California Utilities.
======================
Craig,
The Governor of California is Grey Davis. Feinstein is one of California's US
Senators.
Milton NakedClay@AOL.COM
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