Charles on mon 18 dec 00
Katherine,
First off, we at the Creative Oasis think it's GREAT that you and your
husband can fill those classes as well as you do. It is a major
accomplishment. Seems the national and international crowds love us for the
workshops more that the locals do for the classes. However, we do have a
small and dedicated following of students that come back time after time.
These dedicated few are the ones who are after me to learn all about the
kilns, all about the glazes. They want to load, unload, mix glazes, modify
glazes. just be part of the process in everyway imaginable. I think it is
great. I'll teach them anything they want to know as long as they are
willing to come and learn about it. My class of intermediates all spent some
time in the glaze closet testing small batches of glazes that they had
researched. It was a hit. Now they all know why we only have certain colors
available and why we use certain base recipes and add various colorants.
Many of them, through their part time interaction with us are more ready to
start a small home studio than many clay majors are after college. I am
proud of my crew. I am sure your glaze formulation class will answer many
questions for them and probably raise a few more.
Best of luck to you,
Charles
Visit my webpage...
http://www.thecreativeoasis.com
http://www.thecreativeoasis.com/Hughes/hughes.html
----- Original Message -----
From: Katherine Washa Boyd
To:
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Student firing
> My husband & I own a teaching studio in NC. We've been doing this for
> several years...
>
> My experience is that the vast majority of students are not there to learn
> anything about glazes OR kilns. I've offered to teach electric kiln
firing,
> but no one is interested enough to pursue it. When we did raku firings, no
> one wanted to do anything but drop off pots & come back later. Therefore,
we
> no longer do student raku firings.
>
> I am offering our first basic/beginning level glaze formulation class
> starting in May and hope to find some students who are genuinely into it.
It
> certainly will be nice to have a new responce to the common gripe "why do
we
> only have 8 glaze colors?" and "I don't like the glazes, why can't we have
> red?" I'm hoping that directing them to the glaze formulation class will
> curb some of that...Hopefully not a naive thought.
>
> The only thing that was not so hot with my undergrad experience was my
total
> lack of preparation for the reality of not being able to find a reduction
> kiln to fire in and absolutely no knowledge of kiln building. I knew
> everything about our updraft reduction kiln & was the only one to fire it
my
> last year. (I knew that was the only way for me to be sure it was done the
> way I wanted it.) Unfortunately tho, none of my firing experiences or
glaze
> formulas were transferable to the cone 6 electric world in which we now
> live. It's rough to start over, but a good challenge and a good learning
> experience.
>
> Then again, the fact that we were unprepared for cone 6 electric kilns
> probably was never an issue to the university before. I've been told that
> I'm the only student to go on and pursue a career in clay after
graduation.
> And actually, I wasn't even an art major. I have a perfectly useless
> business degree. (What was I thinking?!?!) Running a business is common
> sense. Nothing more, at least in my experience.
>
> Well, off to warm up my pots in our not-so-well heated studio.
> Stay warm!
>
> Katherine Washa Boyd
> t h e c l a y g r o u n d
> www.geocities.com/claygroundpottery
>
>
>
>
>
Hank Murrow on mon 18 dec 00
>At 01:13 PM 12/18/00 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>> It is very difficult to manage a course of pottery I have had similar
>>problems with my course . you like it that the students work for the whole
>>duration of the course but that leaves a problem of the student not being in
>>total control of their stuff. I think the essence of the problem could be
>>that you are not involved in the kiln firing. It allows you to make more
>>stuff not being involved in the packing and firing and keeps a technician in
>>work but in the long run you are tied to the course and you are kept in the
>>dark about half the processes and The most important half .
>
>> Regards from Paul Taylor
>>http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
>>
>
>Every time I hear one on these stories, about
>students who take ceramics courses (and even get
>degrees) while never learning to fire a kiln, I
>am appalled.
>My undergrad program had a lab assistant to fire the
>'lower division' work and mix glazes. But, to move on
>to the third semester, everyone had to take a tech
>course in glazes and firing. For those of you out there who are stuck in
>such a
program, which denies you access to the fundamental
tools of the craft: Protest!>And, if you volunteer to unload, your work
will never
>go walkabout again!
> -Snail
>
Dear Snail & Paul;
I remember the first class that Bob James gave at the beginning of
the term, which served up the rudimentary facts of Geology, Ceramic
materials, the Melt, and Firing. At the end, he said that the person who
had the highest priority for a kiln, whether gas or electric, was the one
who had never fired. After those, the non-art major, then the majors, then
the grads, then the grad assistants, and LASTLY, the profs. It was a great
invitation, which I promptly took him up on and overfired the 8cuft Alpine
to something around C/18(the cone clay melted). Came in in the am, and he
said,"You got it a little hot, but I think if you start now you can get it
repaired and firing again by dinnertime". Undeserved largesse, but with
Bob, the question counted for everything, and I stuck with it, & built well
over a hundred kilns, and I've never overfired again. And all my glazes
travel!
Loving this thread, Hank in Eugene
Earl Brunner on mon 18 dec 00
At the art center where I teach part-time they sometimes have rather
lengthy gapes between sessions. We can hold an "interim" class if we
can sign up enough students. I offered a beginning glaze class one time
a while back and a bunch of people signed up.
LOL, some of them were really disappointed, they thought I was going to
teach them how to glaze, not how to make glazes and work with the raw
materials. We did fusion buttons on all the materials and did some basic
blends following some of the methods Robin Hopper uses in "The Ceramic
Spectrum", that way we didn't have to get into the math and chemistry
side of it too much. It was really good for them though, and I have one
student that is an environmental safety specialist with a degree in
chemistry that now works on glaze tests with me. She would almost
rather do that then throw.
Katherine Washa Boyd wrote:
> My husband & I own a teaching studio in NC. We've been doing this for
> several years...
> I am offering our first basic/beginning level glaze formulation class
> starting in May and hope to find some students who are genuinely into it. It
> certainly will be nice to have a new responce to the common gripe "why do we
> only have 8 glaze colors?" and "I don't like the glazes, why can't we have
> red?" I'm hoping that directing them to the glaze formulation class will
> curb some of that...Hopefully not a naive thought.
>
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
Snail Scott on mon 18 dec 00
At 01:13 PM 12/18/00 +0000, you wrote:
>
> It is very difficult to manage a course of pottery I have had similar
>problems with my course . you like it that the students work for the whole
>duration of the course but that leaves a problem of the student not being in
>total control of their stuff. I think the essence of the problem could be
>that you are not involved in the kiln firing. It allows you to make more
>stuff not being involved in the packing and firing and keeps a technician in
>work but in the long run you are tied to the course and you are kept in the
>dark about half the processes and The most important half .
> Regards from Paul Taylor
>http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
>
Every time I hear one on these stories, about
students who take ceramics courses (and even get
degrees) while never learning to fire a kiln, I
am appalled. Some schools don't even teach the
basics of glaze-making. Many of these students
produce quite nice work in school, but when they
are out on their own, they are utterly at sea.
Typically, they learned their craft in a school
that provided them with reliable premixed glazes,
and fired all their work to ^10 in reduction.
They may leave school with a notebook of glaze
recipes, but find that it's difficult to rent
firing space in a gas kiln. It's expensive to
buy one, they never learned to build one, and if
they have the initiative to work from an Olsen
plan, there's no one to show them how to fire.
So, they buy an electric kiln and plug it into
the wall, only to discover that the glazes they
brought from school won't work in oxidation.
(They may never have heard the term!) They don't
know how to modify the old recipes, or even how
to test new ones!
Frequently these students don't even know what
they're missing until it's too late. They're
just glad they don't have to stay late, like the
instructor or studio assistant, and besides, those
big kilns seem to work on voodoo or something,
anyway. The student just makes stuff, and it comes
back magically transformed!
I know what a hassle it can be, when dozens of
amateur hands keep mixing up the glaze materials,
and the terror that someone probably wasn't listening
when the gas cutoff system was explained. I've
had students tell me, "I couldn't find enough fire
brick, so I'll just use some red brick from home"
and "The salt kiln gets the mullite shelves, right?"
Losses and mistakes can happen, and supervising the
untrained is frequently more work than just doing
it yourself, but they paid their nickel to learn
ceramics, and it's a cruel disservice to send them
out with only half an education.
My undergrad program had a lab assistant to fire the
'lower division' work and mix glazes. But, to move on
to the third semester, everyone had to take a tech
course in glazes and firing. 'Upper division' students
were expected to fire their own work and move beyond
the shop glazes. Plenty of students never went on to
that level - they were there to pick up a fun elective,
nothing more. But at least it was available to those who
wanted to learn, and everyone knew that it could be
learned!
We can say that a motivated student will acquire the
information they need, and it's probably good for them
to dig it out on their own, but they went to school
expecting to be taught! It's scarcely unreasonable of
them to expect that the assigned curriculum will be
fairly complete, or to fail to see the gaps.
For those of you out there who are stuck in such a
program, which denies you access to the fundamental
tools of the craft: Protest! Loudly! If your instructor
won't expand the program to include firing for everyone,
then demand it for yourself. Ask to attend firings, and
observe closely. Ask questions, and ask to be shown
what isn't clear. Ask to assist and participate. It's
your education, dammit!
And, if you volunteer to unload, your work will never
go walkabout again!
-Snail
Katherine Washa Boyd on mon 18 dec 00
My husband & I own a teaching studio in NC. We've been doing this for
several years...
My experience is that the vast majority of students are not there to learn
anything about glazes OR kilns. I've offered to teach electric kiln firing,
but no one is interested enough to pursue it. When we did raku firings, no
one wanted to do anything but drop off pots & come back later. Therefore, we
no longer do student raku firings.
I am offering our first basic/beginning level glaze formulation class
starting in May and hope to find some students who are genuinely into it. It
certainly will be nice to have a new responce to the common gripe "why do we
only have 8 glaze colors?" and "I don't like the glazes, why can't we have
red?" I'm hoping that directing them to the glaze formulation class will
curb some of that...Hopefully not a naive thought.
The only thing that was not so hot with my undergrad experience was my total
lack of preparation for the reality of not being able to find a reduction
kiln to fire in and absolutely no knowledge of kiln building. I knew
everything about our updraft reduction kiln & was the only one to fire it my
last year. (I knew that was the only way for me to be sure it was done the
way I wanted it.) Unfortunately tho, none of my firing experiences or glaze
formulas were transferable to the cone 6 electric world in which we now
live. It's rough to start over, but a good challenge and a good learning
experience.
Then again, the fact that we were unprepared for cone 6 electric kilns
probably was never an issue to the university before. I've been told that
I'm the only student to go on and pursue a career in clay after graduation.
And actually, I wasn't even an art major. I have a perfectly useless
business degree. (What was I thinking?!?!) Running a business is common
sense. Nothing more, at least in my experience.
Well, off to warm up my pots in our not-so-well heated studio.
Stay warm!
Katherine Washa Boyd
t h e c l a y g r o u n d
www.geocities.com/claygroundpottery
----- Original Message -----
From: Snail Scott
To:
Sent: Monday, December 18, 2000 4:34 PM
Subject: Student firing
> At 01:13 PM 12/18/00 +0000, you wrote:
> >
> > It is very difficult to manage a course of pottery I have had similar
> >problems with my course . you like it that the students work for the
whole
> >duration of the course but that leaves a problem of the student not being
in
> >total control of their stuff. I think the essence of the problem could be
> >that you are not involved in the kiln firing. It allows you to make more
> >stuff not being involved in the packing and firing and keeps a technician
in
> >work but in the long run you are tied to the course and you are kept in
the
> >dark about half the processes and The most important half .
>
> > Regards from Paul Taylor
> >http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
> >
>
> Every time I hear one on these stories, about
> students who take ceramics courses (and even get
> degrees) while never learning to fire a kiln, I
> am appalled. Some schools don't even teach the
> basics of glaze-making. Many of these students
> produce quite nice work in school, but when they
> are out on their own, they are utterly at sea.
>
> Typically, they learned their craft in a school
> that provided them with reliable premixed glazes,
> and fired all their work to ^10 in reduction.
> They may leave school with a notebook of glaze
> recipes, but find that it's difficult to rent
> firing space in a gas kiln. It's expensive to
> buy one, they never learned to build one, and if
> they have the initiative to work from an Olsen
> plan, there's no one to show them how to fire.
>
> So, they buy an electric kiln and plug it into
> the wall, only to discover that the glazes they
> brought from school won't work in oxidation.
> (They may never have heard the term!) They don't
> know how to modify the old recipes, or even how
> to test new ones!
>
> Frequently these students don't even know what
> they're missing until it's too late. They're
> just glad they don't have to stay late, like the
> instructor or studio assistant, and besides, those
> big kilns seem to work on voodoo or something,
> anyway. The student just makes stuff, and it comes
> back magically transformed!
>
> I know what a hassle it can be, when dozens of
> amateur hands keep mixing up the glaze materials,
> and the terror that someone probably wasn't listening
> when the gas cutoff system was explained. I've
> had students tell me, "I couldn't find enough fire
> brick, so I'll just use some red brick from home"
> and "The salt kiln gets the mullite shelves, right?"
> Losses and mistakes can happen, and supervising the
> untrained is frequently more work than just doing
> it yourself, but they paid their nickel to learn
> ceramics, and it's a cruel disservice to send them
> out with only half an education.
>
> My undergrad program had a lab assistant to fire the
> 'lower division' work and mix glazes. But, to move on
> to the third semester, everyone had to take a tech
> course in glazes and firing. 'Upper division' students
> were expected to fire their own work and move beyond
> the shop glazes. Plenty of students never went on to
> that level - they were there to pick up a fun elective,
> nothing more. But at least it was available to those who
> wanted to learn, and everyone knew that it could be
> learned!
>
> We can say that a motivated student will acquire the
> information they need, and it's probably good for them
> to dig it out on their own, but they went to school
> expecting to be taught! It's scarcely unreasonable of
> them to expect that the assigned curriculum will be
> fairly complete, or to fail to see the gaps.
>
> For those of you out there who are stuck in such a
> program, which denies you access to the fundamental
> tools of the craft: Protest! Loudly! If your instructor
> won't expand the program to include firing for everyone,
> then demand it for yourself. Ask to attend firings, and
> observe closely. Ask questions, and ask to be shown
> what isn't clear. Ask to assist and participate. It's
> your education, dammit!
>
> And, if you volunteer to unload, your work will never
> go walkabout again!
> -Snail
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
MOLINA, RAFAEL on tue 19 dec 00
Snail:
I agree with most of the ideas expressed in your post except the following:
"Typically, they learned their craft in a school that provided them with
reliable premixed glazes, and fired all their work to ^10 in reduction.
They may leave school with a notebook of glaze recipes, but find that it's
difficult to rent firing space in a gas kiln.
So, they buy an electric kiln and plug it into the wall, only to discover
that the glazes they brought from school won't work in oxidation.(They may
never have heard the term!)"
Many glazes used in cone 10 reduction are identical or only slightly varied
when fired to the same temperature in oxidation. At my school we currently
have three Bailey electrics in which to fire. Despite this limitation we
are able to create a variety of surfaces through sagger, maiolica, cone 2,
cone 6, and cone 10 oxidation firing with a variety of claybodies and
glazes.
While it's possible to quantify the difference in dollars between cone 6 and
cone 10, it's also possible to qualify the difference between work fired at
2232 F and 2381 F. There is a stark contrast in the color and texture of
mid-fire and high-fire glazes. Specifically, there seems to be a depth in
the glazes at ^ 10 that's absent at ^ 6. Of course, there are also
differences in durability, shrinkange, and porosity as well.
When I first began to create a palette of glazes to use in cone 10 oxidation
my first strategy was to use high-fire reduction glazes in our electric
kiln. To my surprise, many of them worked. That is they had the same or
virtually the same colors and textures. Some of the most pleasing glazes
are Amber Celadon, Brown Persimmon, Oribe Green, Seafoam Green, Candis
Black, and Pinnell's Clear.
The firing cycle I employed was the following:
Ramp 1 - 200 F, Temp 1 - 900 F, Hold 1 - 0; Ramp 2 - 200 F, Temp 2 - 1830 F,
Hold 2 - 30 minutes; Ramp 3 - 200 F, Temp 3 - 2350 F, Hold 3 - 0.
I used a small cone 11 in the sitter which usually melted and shut off the
kiln.
One of the things that the experience engendered was to challenge my notions
of glaze texture and, more specifically color, development. Most of us are
familiar with the role that a reducing atmosphere with the presence of
carbon has on the color of glazes. My question with respect to oxidation
firing is it just the HEAT that is required in order to develop color or are
there other factors as well?
I do have to respectfully disagree with Mel on the relative merits of firing
to cone 10 vis a vis firing to cone 6. I concede that it does place more of
a burden on the kiln, but I think the cost of replacing elements is well
worth the results that can be obtained by firing higher. In my experience,
we have been firing our three electrics for two solid years with only one
kiln showing slight wear.
Ciao,
Rafael Enrique
Rafael Molina, MFA
Assistant Professor of Art
Department of Music, Art, and Dance
Tarrant County College-Southeast Campus
2100 Southeast Parkway
Arlington, TX 76018-3144
(817) 515-3711
(817) 515-3189 fax
-----Original Message-----
From: Snail Scott
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: 12/18/00 3:34 PM
Subject: Student firing
At 01:13 PM 12/18/00 +0000, you wrote:
>
> It is very difficult to manage a course of pottery I have had
similar
>problems with my course . you like it that the students work for the
whole
>duration of the course but that leaves a problem of the student not
being in
>total control of their stuff. I think the essence of the problem could
be
>that you are not involved in the kiln firing. It allows you to make
more
>stuff not being involved in the packing and firing and keeps a
technician in
>work but in the long run you are tied to the course and you are kept in
the
>dark about half the processes and The most important half .
> Regards from Paul Taylor
>http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
>
Every time I hear one on these stories, about
students who take ceramics courses (and even get
degrees) while never learning to fire a kiln, I
am appalled. Some schools don't even teach the
basics of glaze-making. Many of these students
produce quite nice work in school, but when they
are out on their own, they are utterly at sea.
Typically, they learned their craft in a school
that provided them with reliable premixed glazes,
and fired all their work to ^10 in reduction.
They may leave school with a notebook of glaze
recipes, but find that it's difficult to rent
firing space in a gas kiln. It's expensive to
buy one, they never learned to build one, and if
they have the initiative to work from an Olsen
plan, there's no one to show them how to fire.
So, they buy an electric kiln and plug it into
the wall, only to discover that the glazes they
brought from school won't work in oxidation.
(They may never have heard the term!) They don't
know how to modify the old recipes, or even how
to test new ones!
Frequently these students don't even know what
they're missing until it's too late. They're
just glad they don't have to stay late, like the
instructor or studio assistant, and besides, those
big kilns seem to work on voodoo or something,
anyway. The student just makes stuff, and it comes
back magically transformed!
I know what a hassle it can be, when dozens of
amateur hands keep mixing up the glaze materials,
and the terror that someone probably wasn't listening
when the gas cutoff system was explained. I've
had students tell me, "I couldn't find enough fire
brick, so I'll just use some red brick from home"
and "The salt kiln gets the mullite shelves, right?"
Losses and mistakes can happen, and supervising the
untrained is frequently more work than just doing
it yourself, but they paid their nickel to learn
ceramics, and it's a cruel disservice to send them
out with only half an education.
My undergrad program had a lab assistant to fire the
'lower division' work and mix glazes. But, to move on
to the third semester, everyone had to take a tech
course in glazes and firing. 'Upper division' students
were expected to fire their own work and move beyond
the shop glazes. Plenty of students never went on to
that level - they were there to pick up a fun elective,
nothing more. But at least it was available to those who
wanted to learn, and everyone knew that it could be
learned!
We can say that a motivated student will acquire the
information they need, and it's probably good for them
to dig it out on their own, but they went to school
expecting to be taught! It's scarcely unreasonable of
them to expect that the assigned curriculum will be
fairly complete, or to fail to see the gaps.
For those of you out there who are stuck in such a
program, which denies you access to the fundamental
tools of the craft: Protest! Loudly! If your instructor
won't expand the program to include firing for everyone,
then demand it for yourself. Ask to attend firings, and
observe closely. Ask questions, and ask to be shown
what isn't clear. Ask to assist and participate. It's
your education, dammit!
And, if you volunteer to unload, your work will never
go walkabout again!
-Snail
________________________________________________________________________
______
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Daisypet@AOL.COM on thu 21 dec 00
Katherine: I go to a center that has all levels of ceramic teaching. It runs
on 8 week sessions, afternoon and evening classes, and one on Sat mornings.
Each session has beginners, intermediate and advanced. The latter group are
the only ones to use higher firing clays and glazes that will be put in the
gas kiln. This is fired once a term. It is 'kind of structured' as far as
ability is concerned and teaching regarding making glazes and firing not only
the gas kiln but the electric kilns. When I say "kind of", the emphasis is on
recreation because it is part of the city's "Recreation and Parks System".
Therefore, that is why I think there is a lack of curiosity as to why a glaze
is formulated, what cone it will reach, etc. Most of the people will help
make up the glazes which were formulated to fit a certain stoneware clay,
they will help with cleaning shelves and putting kiln wash on, and with
loading the kilns. There is never a question as to why a glaze runs or
doesn't run, about thickness, about fumes. They just know that these things
happen. Few, if any, of them subscribe to ceramic magazines or buy ceramic
books. Many do exceptional work but just want the end product and are not
curious as to why or what if and how, etc. Not one is interested in
subscribing to Clayart and think I am crazy for having this much email. The
atmosphere is one that is typical of the potters on this list--giving,
sharing, helping. Nice people!!!! The people that teach are most knowledgable
and , I think, get a little frustrated that they can only go to a certain
limit in teaching. The people just don't want to know that much. (I sometimes
wonder is this anything like voter apathy??) I am not being critical of the
Center's system, just being observant, and still sign up for 2 afternoon
classes each term,since the likelyhood of me ever having a gas kiln at home
is nil, and I love the friendship and creative atmosphere.
I don't think this is a rant, but it almost sounds like one.
Season's blessings to you all!!
Phyllis Tilton
Daisypet@aol.com
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