Cindy Strnad on fri 26 jan 01
I'm including the posts previous because I think they add enough
understanding to what I say that they merit repeating.
Medical doctors are very good at diagnosing problems, and anyone with a
physical problem should definitely consult and work with a medical doctor.
That said, just because one works with an MD is no excuse for humbly handing
over the reins of one's life to said MD. MD's, though often very
knowledgeable and compassionate and wise, and all, are yet not gods, and
many (not all) would actually prefer not to be treated as gods. Modern
physicians are becoming more receptive to the idea of working with
naturopathic doctors or other alternative practitioners. Find a doctor who
will listen to you and allow you to guide your own health care. It's your
body. The AMA does not posses the Holy Grail.
Think. If there's a safe natural remedy which works, is cheaper, and
produces fewer or less noxious side-effects, then that "nostrum" is a worthy
treatment. We read the posts of many people who had gone through several
allopathic medications before settling on one which worked. Do we expect
natural remedies to be different? Some work for Mary and not for John.
Others work for John and not Mary. Sam may never find one that works. He may
have to go for a more potent, if more poisonous allopathic drug.
As regards surgery, the proper time for joint replacement is a matter of
balance. Doing it too early is a mistake. Natural joints have advantages and
abilities which artificial joints lack. The longer you can hold out, the
better the artificial joints will become. Lots of work is being done in this
field.
However, what medicine can now do with artificial joints is very, very good.
I don't understand the desire to wait until a patient is in inscrutable
agony, and too old and infirm to heal as well as he would have done had he
undergone joint replacement a few years earlier.
So, now I'll back out of this, as I've had my say.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
Perry wrote, in part;
>I haven't seen the initial e-mail on this subject but what I do see alarms
>me, with its extensive discussion of nostrums.
>Joint replacement is done when you cannot bear the pain any longer. Few
>who encourage it will tell you that you will still have arthritic pain,
>because the pain is so much less and we have learned to bear the lessened
>hurt that continues. What must be remembered is that the proprioceptors
>are gone with the natural joint end...some of us have persistent problems
>with balance so we must be cautious in crowds because we are easily
>knocked off our feet. I have had 4 replacements and have a bunch to say
>about it to a person who'd like to talk it over.
Hank wrote;
I have had the same diagnosis (from arthroscopy) since I was 47 years old.
I tried Glucosamine sulfate and other 'Supplemental' minerals but finally
at the age of 55 had my left knee replaced with a shiny new cobalt/chrome
alloy with teflon 'cartilage'. The new knee has performed flawlessly ever
since, while the right knee continued to deteriorate. Finally, Jan 5th I
had surgery to replace the right knee with a similar alloy joint. One week
after surgery I walked 8 blocks with crutches, at two weeks I walked a mile
without them, at three weeks, I am bicylcling for twentyfive minutes at a
pop and walking a mile a day. Promises to leave me with two sturdy limbs
which are the same length and will permit walking around those hill towns
in Umbria I've been avoiding until now. Can't believe how good my surgeon
and his team are. The operation took 1 and a quarter hours! I will be back
in the studio potting around Feb 10. "Your Mileage May Vary".
And now:
I hope that Perry's negative report about joint replacement can be
counterbalanced with my own story of a very happy result. Clayarters facing
joint problems should seek the wisest reportage possible before narrowing
down their options.
Thanks for listening, Hank in Eugene
PERRY STEARNS on fri 26 jan 01
I haven't seen the initial e-mail on this subject but what I do see =
alarms me, with its extensive discussion of nostrums. Two things about =
arthritis to remember: 1) Every human being gets build-up of deposits in =
joints in life and degradation of cartilage. 2) Some persons get more =
joint accretion and/or joint deterioration than others do. These people =
hurt. The pain, or the swelling, of the common joint affliction =
-osteoarthritis or OA-is not the same as rheumatoid arthritis or RA =
which is very different in origins, onset, and treatment. YOU NEED AN =
M.D., A PHYSICIAN WHO CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE. Please!!
With OA (osteoarthritis), NSAIDS (non-steroidals) dull the pain but wear =
hard on the stomach lining. New medications (I am prescribed Celebrex) =
are selective inhibitors of pain and are far less corrosive in one's =
stomach. Personally,I would take my maximum OA dose of aspirin, because =
it is the most effective against pain for me, if I could but a lifetime =
of aspirin just is not possible. The amount of nonsensical advice on =
this subject is enormous. That includes the nostrum glucosamine and the =
happy talk about joint replacement.
Joint replacement is done when you cannot bear the pain any longer. Few =
who encourage it will tell you that you will still have arthritic pain, =
because the pain is so much less and we have learned to bear the =
lessened hurt that continues. What must be remembered is that the =
proprioceptors are gone with the natural joint end...some of us have =
persistent problems with balance so we must be cautious in crowds =
because we are easily knocked off our feet. I have had 4 replacements =
and have a bunch to say about it to a person who'd like to talk it =
over.
Years ago I had the carpel tunnel operation (blessed!) on both hands. =
This hasn't halted OA, and now the bones at the base of both thumbs are =
fusing. You learn care in your sleeping posture. Care where your feet =
go. Care to keep your body at an even temperature. I wedge clay in a =
bag on the floor pummeled by my feet. My work is good. The key for OA =
is to keep moving, don't whine, insist on whatever you must have to keep =
going, and stay away from cranks.
Hank Murrow on fri 26 jan 01
Perry wrote, in part;
>I haven't seen the initial e-mail on this subject but what I do see alarms
>me, with its extensive discussion of nostrums.
>Joint replacement is done when you cannot bear the pain any longer. Few
>who encourage it will tell you that you will still have arthritic pain,
>because the pain is so much less and we have learned to bear the lessened
>hurt that continues. What must be remembered is that the proprioceptors
>are gone with the natural joint end...some of us have persistent problems
>with balance so we must be cautious in crowds because we are easily
>knocked off our feet. I have had 4 replacements and have a bunch to say
>about it to a person who'd like to talk it over.
Hank wrote;
I have had the same diagnosis (from arthroscopy) since I was 47 years old.
I tried Glucosamine sulfate and other 'Supplemental' minerals but finally
at the age of 55 had my left knee replaced with a shiny new cobalt/chrome
alloy with teflon 'cartilage'. The new knee has performed flawlessly ever
since, while the right knee continued to deteriorate. Finally, Jan 5th I
had surgery to replace the right knee with a similar alloy joint. One week
after surgery I walked 8 blocks with crutches, at two weeks I walked a mile
without them, at three weeks, I am bicylcling for twentyfive minutes at a
pop and walking a mile a day. Promises to leave me with two sturdy limbs
which are the same length and will permit walking around those hill towns
in Umbria I've been avoiding until now. Can't believe how good my surgeon
and his team are. The operation took 1 and a quarter hours! I will be back
in the studio potting around Feb 10. "Your Mileage May Vary".
And now:
I hope that Perry's negative report about joint replacement can be
counterbalanced with my own story of a very happy result. Clayarters facing
joint problems should seek the wisest reportage possible before narrowing
down their options.
Thanks for listening, Hank in Eugene
Paul Taylor on fri 26 jan 01
Dear All
I would like to support this letter. I had all the symptoms of arthritis
and after the usual gamut of copper wrist bands and chanting whilst rubbing
with semi worthless stones the pain got so bad that I finally went to see
the doctor .
Xrays showed nothing .
In the end it was a form of gout??? Like all potters I had a
permanent pot of tea on the stove and the tea was causing a build up of
something or other in the joints. So I gave up tea and coffee, coca cola
(caffeine) I do not drink alcohol (I can be enough of a maggot with out it)
and all is cured. And woe is me if I drink more than a cup a week. i am
amazed how sensitive joints can be.
So to all in pain find out what is wrong first YOU NEED AN M.D., A
PHYSICIAN WHO CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE.
Regards from Paul Taylor
http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
There are two sides to an argument - ignorance and self interest.
> From: PERRY STEARNS
> Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:01:48 -0700
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Arthritis- OA and RA
>
> I haven't seen the initial e-mail on this subject but what I do see alarms me,
> with its extensive discussion of nostrums. Two things about arthritis to
> remember: 1) Every human being gets build-up of deposits in joints in life and
> degradation of cartilage. 2) Some persons get more joint accretion and/or
> joint deterioration than others do. These people hurt. The pain, or the
> swelling, of the common joint affliction -osteoarthritis or OA-is not the
> same as rheumatoid arthritis or RA which is very different in origins, onset,
> and treatment.
> Please!!YOU NEED AN M.D., A PHYSICIAN WHO CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE.
Martin Howard on sat 27 jan 01
Paul Taylor writes:-
PHYSICIAN WHO CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE.>
My experience is that an Iris Diagnosis, plus dowsing by means of a
pendulum, give one far better results than come from most doctors. I have
done both for about 20 years with very good results in this country and in
Poland.
I do so wish that these methods would be taught in medical schools.
We then might have a chance of more accurate diagnosis followed by less drug
based therapy with all its side effects and reliance on animal
experimentation.
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
Have you seen http://www.thefriend.org
Download The Friend, the weekly Quaker Newspaper,
3 days before it is published.
That's Quick for Quakers.
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on mon 29 jan 01
Dear Paul--
There is one rheumatologist who has written many, many articles on arthritis
and diet. His name is Panush. You can look his articles up on MEDLINE. My
own rheumatologist told me about him when I told him that when I ate a diet
of rice, carrots and water for a few days because I wasn't feeling that
great, all the pain in my joints vanished. My rheumatologist(who is
extremely good) said that some people have had good results, but
unfortunately, there are no scientific studies of the treatment. Dr. Panush
recommends getting off caffeine, and refined foods. He believes that
osteoarthritis is an alllergic reaction to certain foods. I know that since
I have stopped eating dairy products, like cheese and milk, my arthritis
pain has diminished, not completely gone, but it definitely has lessened to
the degree that I take 1/2 of the dose of NSAID I did before changing my
diet. There is a list of foods in Jean Carper's book--"The Food Pharmacy"
that might be reactive. She has a chapter on arthritis and food allergies.
Makes good reading. Also recommends eating lots of curcumin, turmeric and
ginger. In other words...go to Indian restaurants often!
Sandy
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Taylor [SMTP:taylor@MAIL.ANU.IE]
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 6:08 PM
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Arthritis- OA and RA
>
> Dear All
>
> I would like to support this letter. I had all the symptoms of arthritis
> and after the usual gamut of copper wrist bands and chanting whilst
> rubbing
> with semi worthless stones the pain got so bad that I finally went to see
> the doctor .
>
> Xrays showed nothing .
>
> In the end it was a form of gout??? Like all potters I had a
> permanent pot of tea on the stove and the tea was causing a build up of
> something or other in the joints. So I gave up tea and coffee, coca cola
> (caffeine) I do not drink alcohol (I can be enough of a maggot with out
> it)
> and all is cured. And woe is me if I drink more than a cup a week. i am
> amazed how sensitive joints can be.
>
> So to all in pain find out what is wrong first YOU NEED AN M.D., A
> PHYSICIAN WHO CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE.
>
>
> Regards from Paul Taylor
> http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
>
> There are two sides to an argument - ignorance and self interest.
>
>
>
>
> > From: PERRY STEARNS
> > Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> > Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 11:01:48 -0700
> > To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Subject: Arthritis- OA and RA
> >
> > I haven't seen the initial e-mail on this subject but what I do see
> alarms me,
> > with its extensive discussion of nostrums. Two things about arthritis
> to
> > remember: 1) Every human being gets build-up of deposits in joints in
> life and
> > degradation of cartilage. 2) Some persons get more joint accretion
> and/or
> > joint deterioration than others do. These people hurt. The pain, or
> the
> > swelling, of the common joint affliction -osteoarthritis or OA-is not
> the
> > same as rheumatoid arthritis or RA which is very different in origins,
> onset,
> > and treatment.
> > Please!!YOU NEED AN M.D., A PHYSICIAN WHO CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE.
>
> __________________________________________________________________________
> ____
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>
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Paul Taylor on fri 2 feb 01
Dear Sandy
You have done it now - My lady read your letter before I could censor it
She loves Indian food I prefer chinese. From now on she has the argument
that it is good for my health when we are discussing eating out .
Apart from a future of curries. I have not had a twinge since giving up
the drugs caffeine and alcohol . I Am grateful that I hit on the cure before
the symptoms became so bad that they would not have allowed for such a
simple cure because too much damage had been done and I would have lost the
sensitivity to judge weather the changes I made were making a difference.
I do notice that caffeine and alcohol seem to be the last thing ill
people give up for their health; doing all sorts of crazy elimination diets
but not cutting out the drugs caffeine and alcohol because they are so
attached to them.
The medical profession is about to do to caffeine what was done to
smoking and I wonder if the world is prepared. Fortunately tea does contain
a disinfectant which helps the stomach deal with nasties; but for heavy
coffee drinkers, your guiltless days are numbered.
I have also noted that any sensitivity I have to foods or the environment
is increased by stress which is a spiritual and physiological problem so
there is no need for me to give up bacon butties altogether - just anger
control and twisted thinking.
Regards from Paul Taylor
http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
There are two sides to an argument - ignorance and self interest.
> From: "Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI)"
> Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 10:43:49 -0500
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Arthritis- OA and RA
>
> Dear Paul--
> There is one rheumatologist who has written many, many articles on arthritis
> and diet. His name is Panush. You can look his articles up on MEDLINE. My
> own rheumatologist told me about him when I told him that when I ate a diet
> of rice, carrots and water for a few days because I wasn't feeling that
> great, all the pain in my joints vanished. My rheumatologist(who is
> extremely good) said that some people have had good results, but
> unfortunately, there are no scientific studies of the treatment. Dr. Panush
> recommends getting off caffeine, and refined foods. He believes that
> osteoarthritis is an alllergic reaction to certain foods. I know that since
> I have stopped eating dairy products, like cheese and milk, my arthritis
> pain has diminished, not completely gone, but it definitely has lessened to
> the degree that I take 1/2 of the dose of NSAID I did before changing my
> diet. There is a list of foods in Jean Carper's book--"The Food Pharmacy"
> that might be reactive. She has a chapter on arthritis and food allergies.
> Makes good reading. Also recommends eating lots of curcumin, turmeric and
> ginger. In other words...go to Indian restaurants often!
> Sandy
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