Maid O'Mud Pottery on fri 26 jan 01
Lynspots@AOL.COM wrote in part:
> but I always wonder as I am throwing, "inside or outside."
>
Hi Lyn:
I throw the inside, and trim the outside to fit/match the interior. However, if a
bowl turns out "ledgy" (flat spots) on the interior, I'll trim a bit away to smooth
it out.
I've recently starting making 2.5 lb bowls with a small foot and lovely round belly
with a flaring lip. I can not throw this form uniformly bottom to top without the
bottom collapsing, so I leave them "bottom heavy" and when leatherhard trim quite a
bit away from the exterior from the foot to about 1/3 the way to the rim.
HTH
--
Sam, Maid O'Mud Pottery
SW Ontario CANADA
http://www.geocities.com/paris/3110
scuttell@odyssey.on.ca
"First, the clay told me what to do
Then, I told the clay what to do
Now; we co-operate"
sam, 1994
"Effort does not always equal output"
sam, 1999
Cindy Strnad on fri 26 jan 01
Hello, Lynne.
When you're throwing a bowl or plate or any form on which the inside will be
seen as well as the outside, you need to give attention to both. They must
work together, the inside and the outside.
For a bowl, I like a nice smooth curve on the inside, from bottom to top.
Same with the outside. It takes some practice to get both right. Even with a
plate, I pay attention to the outside profile. On plates, the two profiles
will be more different (at least before trimming) than on bowls, because
more support is needed for the rim during drying.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
Jean Cochran on fri 26 jan 01
Dear Lynn,
I, also, throw in front of a mirror. My criteria are that the inside of the bowl
have a continuous, unbroken curve (except that the rim and near the rim flares
out), sort of a semi-circle. Looking in the mirror, the outside of the bowl
follows this same line. My bowls look like they are mounted on a shallow
pedestal. My trimming involves a teeny bit of refining of this pedestal illusion
and trimming the base, leaving a nice foot ring, which I polish with a stainless
spoon.
(By the way, it's hard to sneak up on me when I "have eyes in the back of my
head".)
Jean Wadsworth Cochran
Fox Hollow Pottery (in a real hollow in the woods of Kentucky)
Lynspots@AOL.COM wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have been throwing two kinds of large bowls, 7 pounds each. We call them
> Mixing Bowls, deep and somewhat narrow and Pasta Bowls, flat and wide.
>
> So, as I have been throwing them, trying to view the process also in the
> mirror mounted in front of the wheel, I have been wondering if one throws a
> bowl to the outside or inside. Meaning, I guess, do you shape the bowl with a
> thought to the outside appearance or inside appearance. Does the inside form
> also shape the outside form automatically and if it looks good inside, the
> outside will follow?
>
> A thought has to be kept in ones mind about how final trimming of these large
> bowls will further enhance their shapes, but I always wonder as I am
> throwing, "inside or outside."
>
> I hope this makes sense. Where does my mind go while throwing? Who knows?
>
> Lynne Antone
> Beaver Creek Arts
> Olympia WA USA
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Dannon Rhudy on fri 26 jan 01
>I have been throwing two kinds ... bowls, ... trying to view the process
been wondering if one throws a bowl to the outside or inside.....
One throws the INSIDE shape of a bowl. The outside will be trimmed to
match the inside. As one's skills increase, the outside and inside will be
more and more the same while throwing, and less and less trimming
will be needed. With small bowls little or no trimming is necessary to
make the outside match the inside. With larger bowls, a bit more clay
may be needed at the base to support the walls. That depends partly
upon the shape of the bowl and the skills of the thrower. But the inside
shape is the one that counts when you're making the piece. A smooth
flow from the bottom center to the lip, with no lumps or bulges. If
the inside is perfect, you can make the outside match.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Lee Jaffe on fri 26 jan 01
One simple answer is that I was taught that you throw the inside of the
bowl and trim the outside. I said it was simple. However, as I've approached
the process, the inside of the bowl is finished at the point I take it off the
wheel and the outside is finished in the trimming process. The complex part
is that the trimming is dictated by the inside shape, but over time you learn
to throw an inside that forms a good outside. It's an reiterative process.
-- Lee Jaffe
>I have been wondering if one throws a
>bowl to the outside or inside. Meaning, I guess, do you shape the bowl with a
>thought to the outside appearance or inside appearance. Does the inside form
>also shape the outside form automatically and if it looks good inside, the
>outside will follow?
=====================================================================
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Online Santa Cruz Guide http://libweb.ucsc.edu/cruz/
Pottery Resources on the Web http://libweb.ucsc.edu/pottery/
Snail Scott on fri 26 jan 01
At 04:53 PM 1/26/01 EST, you wrote:
I have been wondering if one throws a
>bowl to the outside or inside. Meaning, I guess, do you shape the bowl with a
>thought to the outside appearance or inside appearance. Does the inside form
>also shape the outside form automatically and if it looks good inside, the
>outside will follow?
>
>Lynne Antone
When I learned to throw, the emphasis was
certainly on getting the outside right, and
then inproving our skill until the inside
corresponded. Later, I learned from a guy
who had trained in Arita, Japan. With that
technique, we were definitely throwing the
inside! Then, during trimming, we made the
outside correspond.
-Snail
Ann Brink on fri 26 jan 01
Lynne wrote:
"I have been wondering if one throws a
bowl to the outside or inside. Meaning, I guess, do you shape the bowl with
a
thought to the outside appearance or inside appearance. Does the inside form
also shape the outside form automatically and if it looks good inside, the
outside will follow?"
Hi Lynne,
I like making bowls about that size too, and like to vary the shape and
amount of flare, etc. I pay the closest attention to the transition from
bottom to sides-keeping a graceful line- and that means I'm letting the
inside hand take the lead, so to speak. Then if you want to do something
interesting to the rim, it should be a natural completion or accent of the
shape you already have going. Unless of course the top edge is the main
focus, then ....whatever- it's your bowl and you can make whifferdillies on
it if you want. I think I have veered away from the question here- bye.
Ann Brink in CA
Lynspots@AOL.COM on fri 26 jan 01
Hi all,
I have been throwing two kinds of large bowls, 7 pounds each. We call them
Mixing Bowls, deep and somewhat narrow and Pasta Bowls, flat and wide.
So, as I have been throwing them, trying to view the process also in the
mirror mounted in front of the wheel, I have been wondering if one throws a
bowl to the outside or inside. Meaning, I guess, do you shape the bowl with a
thought to the outside appearance or inside appearance. Does the inside form
also shape the outside form automatically and if it looks good inside, the
outside will follow?
A thought has to be kept in ones mind about how final trimming of these large
bowls will further enhance their shapes, but I always wonder as I am
throwing, "inside or outside."
I hope this makes sense. Where does my mind go while throwing? Who knows?
Lynne Antone
Beaver Creek Arts
Olympia WA USA
lela martens on sat 27 jan 01
Dear Lynne, When throwing bowls, I want my outside curve to follow, be as
much the same as the inside curve as possible. Yes, also thinking about
trimming after the piece has set up enough to get rid of that extra clay on
the bottom outside curve that has to be there, at least for me, for
strength. Now that you mention, find I am quite picky about synchronized
profiles, have been presuming it is a basic potters rule. Now I`m curious
about what others think on this one, Lela
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Carrie or Peter Jacobson on sat 27 jan 01
Hi, Lynn - my answer to your question is to pay attention to both... shape
both the inside and the outside... I tend to shape the inside more in
throwing, and the outside more in trimming, perhaps?
What I love is your question of "where does the mind go while throwing?"
I've thought of this same question, and wondered, often in the creative
process. Same sort of thing seems to happen to me while I am writing as when
I am throwing. It feels as though my mind, my conscious self, if you will,
simply disappears. Or perhaps more accurately, opens up. I feel -
particularly while I am in the process of making vessels - that I am, in a
way, a vessel, a channel, that energy is flowing down through me and out
through my fingers.
This is not to say that I feel any loss of control, or direction or
discipline. Simply that, to some degree, what I do, what I create, is at
least in part formed by the energy of this world around me, and my potential
to absorb and pass on that energy.
When I have my most problems, when I am at my weakest in terms of skill and
creativity, is when I am thinking too much. Judging too much. Paying too
much attention to the details of the process, and too little to the energy
of the piece, and of myself, the maker of the piece.
I think that, in part, this is why I am not so enthralled with the glazing
process. For me, it requires to much active thought that this sense of
wondrous acceptance must be replaced with discipline and exactness.
Just musings. I'd like to hear about where others go while they are
creating.
Carrie Jacobson
Big Hill Pottery
Bolster's Mills, Maine
Wood Jeanne on sat 27 jan 01
Hi Lynne,
My Ceramics Professor, George Roberts, used to say
when talking about ALL pottery.
"If you take care of the inside, the outside will take
care of itself."
Or was that pottery he was talking about....humm.
Regards,
Jeanne W.
--- Lynspots@AOL.COM wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have been throwing two kinds of large bowls, 7
> pounds each. We call them
> Mixing Bowls, deep and somewhat narrow and Pasta
> Bowls, flat and wide.
>
> So, as I have been throwing them, trying to view the
> process also in the
> mirror mounted in front of the wheel, I have been
> wondering if one throws a
> bowl to the outside or inside. Meaning, I guess, do
> you shape the bowl with a
> thought to the outside appearance or inside
> appearance. Does the inside form
> also shape the outside form automatically and if it
> looks good inside, the
> outside will follow?
>
> A thought has to be kept in ones mind about how
> final trimming of these large
> bowls will further enhance their shapes, but I
> always wonder as I am
> throwing, "inside or outside."
>
__________________________________________________
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Cindy Strnad on sat 27 jan 01
There was an article a while back--Pottery Making Illustrated, I
think--about throwing bowls. It was definitely worth reading.
HTM mentioned making bowls with a small base, wide lip, and rounded belly.
That is a beautiful shape, and hard to manage unless you do it right. The
PMI(?) article gave a good technique for this.
Throw a morning glory shape--a lily shape.
Open this shape into a straight V shape.
If the lip is wide enough at this point, proceed: if not, flare the rim out
again and repeat as necessary.
Once you have a wide enough V, open the walls into a full, pregnant belly.
Don't enlarge the lip further during this process. Don't thin the
walls--just bow them outward.
This must be done with a steady, confident hand. Either hurry or hesitation
will cause the form to lose stability.
If you're throwing fairly quickly, you can use moister clay and more water
than if you do this procedure very slowly. I find, using this method, that
the only trimming my bowls require is to cut a foot ring (if desired) or to
smooth the base. I've cut them, and they have a nice, even, thin cross
section.
However, every method has its limitations. If your shape is extreme--like
maybe a two inch base and a twelve inch lip--you probably will need to leave
extra clay to support the bowl until it stiffens up.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
william schran on sat 27 jan 01
I've always treated all my forms the same way, the inside dictates
the outside shape. I stretch my bowls from the inside with a flexible
rib, using no water, after pulling a "rough" bowl form. I look for a
continuous curve inside my bowls.
Bill
artimater on sat 27 jan 01
I was told by Sam Clarkson that the most important part of a bowl is =
having a smooth curve across the bottom inside.....sounded good to me =
.....So I guess you throw the inside and take care of the outside with =
trimming if necessary
artimator
artimator@earthlink.net
"I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
Bob Hamm on mon 29 jan 01
Hi Lynn,
I'm behind on my email, so this is a bit after the fact. This is more a
philosophical answer then technical one.
One of the stronger memories I have as a student, was our instructor passing
on his ideas about shaping pots. He told us to throw the space inside the
pot to give the outside character. I think of that space as energy and try
to give it voice. So I ask myself what kind of energy I want to express. In
order to feel the energy I imagine myself inside the pot. Am I huddling in a
ball. Am I expansive, wanting to reach out as far as I can. Maybe I'm
standing on my toes with arms spread wide. Can you visualize the shape of
pot I'm in with each of these examples.
I always shape the inside of the pot and let the outside be the result of
what has happened inside. Most of the time while I am shaping, I watch the
pot surface opposite my hands. This means that I'm watching the inside of a
bowl at 10 o'clock while my hands are doing the shaping at 4 o'clock. If its
a closed form I watch the outside surface as far from my hands as possible.
This lets me feel the shape without becoming overwhelmed by what my eyes
see.
My advice would be to always throw the inside of a container so it gives
visual form to the energy contained. The outside of your pots will be
stronger if you do this, regardless of whether you have to trim the piece or
not.
Enjoy the explorations.
Bob Hamm
Ph (250) 765-8876 Fax (250) 765-0497
email bobhamm@look.ca web site www.bobhamm-art.com
6750 Highway 33 East
Kelowna, B.C. Canada V1P 1H9
For information about the Kelowna Clay Festival 2001, go to
www.bobhamm-art.com/clayfest
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 1:53 PM
Subject: Shaping bowls
> Hi all,
>
> I have been throwing two kinds of large bowls, 7 pounds each. We call them
> Mixing Bowls, deep and somewhat narrow and Pasta Bowls, flat and wide.
>
> So, as I have been throwing them, trying to view the process also in the
> mirror mounted in front of the wheel, I have been wondering if one throws
a
> bowl to the outside or inside. Meaning, I guess, do you shape the bowl
with a
> thought to the outside appearance or inside appearance. Does the inside
form
> also shape the outside form automatically and if it looks good inside, the
> outside will follow?
>
> A thought has to be kept in ones mind about how final trimming of these
large
> bowls will further enhance their shapes, but I always wonder as I am
> throwing, "inside or outside."
>
> I hope this makes sense. Where does my mind go while throwing? Who knows?
>
> Lynne Antone
> Beaver Creek Arts
> Olympia WA USA
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Ron Roy on sun 4 feb 01
I hope everyone read this - I agree completley with Bob - if you are making
a container you are dealing with inside space. Make a pot look empty and
you invite filling.
Way to go Bob - well put.
RR
>One of the stronger memories I have as a student, was our instructor passing
>on his ideas about shaping pots. He told us to throw the space inside the
>pot to give the outside character. I think of that space as energy and try
>to give it voice. So I ask myself what kind of energy I want to express. In
>order to feel the energy I imagine myself inside the pot. Am I huddling in a
>ball. Am I expansive, wanting to reach out as far as I can. Maybe I'm
>standing on my toes with arms spread wide. Can you visualize the shape of
>pot I'm in with each of these examples.
>
>I always shape the inside of the pot and let the outside be the result of
>what has happened inside. Most of the time while I am shaping, I watch the
>pot surface opposite my hands. This means that I'm watching the inside of a
>bowl at 10 o'clock while my hands are doing the shaping at 4 o'clock. If its
>a closed form I watch the outside surface as far from my hands as possible.
>This lets me feel the shape without becoming overwhelmed by what my eyes
>see.
>
>My advice would be to always throw the inside of a container so it gives
>visual form to the energy contained. The outside of your pots will be
>stronger if you do this, regardless of whether you have to trim the piece or
>not.
>Bob Hamm
Ron Roy
RR# 4
15084 Little Lake Rd..
Brighton,
Ontario, Canada
KOK 1H0
Residence 613-475-9544
Studio 613-475-3715
Fax 613-475-3513
Leona Stonebridge Arthen on fri 9 feb 01
Feeling the shape of the bowl grow under my hands, I watch the inside move
up and out and think of its purpose: this will hold food for the
body...this will hold a cup of tea...this will hold hopes and
dreams...whatever the function of what I am working on is to be. Gets to
be a mantra when doing 100 or so at a time.
Leona
---
Leona Stonebridge Arthen
leona@javanet.com
Worthington, Massachusetts/USA
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