vince pitelka on wed 31 jan 01
> Is putting a propane kiln inside a building a bad idea?
Don -
Not at all, as long as the kiln is well-built, and includes all the proper
safety equipment. Our gas kilns are propane. All of the indoor ones are
low-pressure (about nine WCI) while the outdoor ones are mostly
high-pressure. I would not use high-pressure on an indoor kiln.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
vince pitelka on wed 31 jan 01
> Yes, always a bad idea, in my opinion, unless you are willing to put out
the
> expense for detectors/alarms. Even then, I wonder. Watch out for cross
> drafts and air movement. I've had some close calls, and I fired OUTSIDE
> with propane. Breeze can push propane to pooling areas you wouldn't
> anticipate on initial analysis. Propane sinks, slithers, pools, and can
> sneak up on you and bite very hard. You can't always smell it if it's
> around your feet, or pooled in the bottom of your kiln.
Steve -
Yes, I would say you are being unreasonably cautious. Caution is a good
thing, but this is completely counterproductive. Aside from the fact that
propane is heavier than air, none of the above need be a concern at all, as
long as the kiln is well built, the propane plumbing is properly done, the
indoor system is all low-pressure propane, and proper safety devices are
incorporated into the system - that means at the least a baso-valve on a
natural-draft system, and a baso-valve and electromagnetic valve with reset
button on a forced-air system. With that system, if the power goes off, the
burner system shuts off instantly, and it will not come back on until it is
manually reset by the operator.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Terrance Lazaroff on wed 31 jan 01
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Mummert
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 9:47 PM
Subject: Re: propane kiln
If you are thinking of bringing the propane tank indoors then you best speak
to the fire dept as there are codes to the size of tank that is allowed in
or on anyones property.
Terrance
Don Hunt on wed 31 jan 01
Is putting a propane kiln inside a building a bad idea?
Hank Murrow on wed 31 jan 01
Don Hunt wrote;
>Is putting a propane kiln inside a building a bad idea?
>
Dear Don;
No, not a bad idea at all, providing you create a drain for the
heavier-than-air propane to escape the building in case of a leak. Of
course, there should be no source of ignition between the leak and the exit
point.
Hank in Eugene
STVC on wed 31 jan 01
Yes, always a bad idea, in my opinion, unless you are willing to put out the
expense for detectors/alarms. Even then, I wonder. Watch out for cross
drafts and air movement. I've had some close calls, and I fired OUTSIDE
with propane. Breeze can push propane to pooling areas you wouldn't
anticipate on initial analysis. Propane sinks, slithers, pools, and can
sneak up on you and bite very hard. You can't always smell it if it's
around your feet, or pooled in the bottom of your kiln.
Maybe I'm overly cautious. I'll be interested in other input.
Steven Van Cleave
1021 Marine View Drive
Vista, CA 92083
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Don Hunt
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:42 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: propane kiln
Is putting a propane kiln inside a building a bad idea?
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Dennis Mummert on wed 31 jan 01
Not if you have adequate ventilation and a carbon monoxide monitor. I
personally know of a former glass kiln, about 30 cubic feet, which ran
indoors 24hrs a day. Working in this workspace didn't cause headache
problems, and the glass blower was healthy. He'd been at it for many years.
The building had high ceilings (12-14 feet), exposed wood roofing trusses,
and a metal roof. It did leak a good bit of air, and we had available a 4'
dia ventilating fan, but never had occasion to use it.
OTOH, you may want to put a fume hood above the kiln and vent it to the
outside with a lowspeed blower (using a venturi pipe for draft air), and use
8-10" metal air duct for fume and a 3" pipe for the draft blower. Glaze
kilns in particular fume metal oxides, and some of them are nasty. Not,
however, and I repeat, NOT all of them. People never seem to use common
sense when it comes to exposure limits
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Don Hunt
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 10:42 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: propane kiln
Is putting a propane kiln inside a building a bad idea?
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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STVC on thu 1 feb 01
Yes, good points.
My system was vulnerable in that it was high pressure. Adding to that, I
regularly disconnected and reconnected since I used the same line on
different kilns. Even though I checked carefully after each reconnect,
the manipulation of the lines got me into trouble when a leak developed
between reconnections which allowed gas to pool in an unexpected place. In
that case I was startled when it ignited, but no harm done.
In another incident, I was operating thermocouples on each burner, and one
of them malfunctioned during a candling where the wind blew all the burners
out. The leaking burner was on the oposite side of the kiln where I usually
started to relight. I assumed all the burner thermocouples were shut down
when I started to relight. One of the thermocouples had malfunctioned and
propane had pooled in the fire box. The explosion was enough to singe some
hair, lift the whole kiln up off its base a couple inches, and cause some
tiles to fall in the kiln.
I now use low pressure, learned to check all connections and test all safety
devices before and after each and every firing, and have central shut off if
any single burner goes out. I think you are right for the most part in
relatively static configurations with low pressure. It can be as safe as
any fuel. There are always a few like me, though, who for one reason or
another are operating outside the norm who need to think a little more about
seemingly improbable events. I've heard interesting stories about propane
and portable raku firings.
Steve Van Cleave
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of vince pitelka
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 7:31 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: propane kiln
> Yes, always a bad idea, in my opinion, unless you are willing to put out
the
> expense for detectors/alarms. Even then, I wonder. Watch out for cross
> drafts and air movement. I've had some close calls, and I fired OUTSIDE
> with propane. Breeze can push propane to pooling areas you wouldn't
> anticipate on initial analysis. Propane sinks, slithers, pools, and can
> sneak up on you and bite very hard. You can't always smell it if it's
> around your feet, or pooled in the bottom of your kiln.
Steve -
Yes, I would say you are being unreasonably cautious. Caution is a good
thing, but this is completely counterproductive. Aside from the fact that
propane is heavier than air, none of the above need be a concern at all, as
long as the kiln is well built, the propane plumbing is properly done, the
indoor system is all low-pressure propane, and proper safety devices are
incorporated into the system - that means at the least a baso-valve on a
natural-draft system, and a baso-valve and electromagnetic valve with reset
button on a forced-air system. With that system, if the power goes off, the
burner system shuts off instantly, and it will not come back on until it is
manually reset by the operator.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
ferenc jakab on thu 1 feb 01
> Is putting a propane kiln inside a building a bad idea?
>
Don,
I have two propane kilns inside but they meet strict State regulations
regarding safety. My building has one side which is never fully enclosed and
space all round the bottom edge for leaking propane to escape. (propane is
heavier than air) I have two large clear plastic roll up awnings near the
kilns which I rollup when firing. In bad weather I leave them partially
down. At such times there is so much wind through my studio that no gas can
build up.
Feri.
Jim Murphy on thu 1 feb 01
Don Hunt wrote;
>Is putting a propane kiln inside a building a bad idea?
>
Dear Don,
Since propane is heavier-than-air, my understanding is that propane should
never be used below ground-level, e.g. in a basement, although maybe this
doesn't apply to your situation.
Jim Murphy
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