David Hendley on thu 1 feb 01
Is the question,
1) 'Should I do the workshop?' or
2) 'Should I charge for the workshop?'
1) That's your call. I like to do workshops and am not the
least bit worried about people 'stealing' my techniques.
I certainly don't think your sales will be lowered if you
show people what you do. I think this is where Vivika's
quote is pertinent. The same Idea is stated a different way
by the Beatles on Abby Road, 'And in the end, the love you
take is equal to the love you make.'
2) Heck no, you don't give a free workshop. That's not what
the 'giving away' means. Charge the full price of the work
you will not be able to do that day. Plus some. Giving a
workshop is very hard and tiring work; you will probably
need a day to prepare and a day to recover.
--
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: Cantello Studios
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:52 PM
Subject: Do I give a workshop free or charge?
I have been asked to give a workshop on horsehair pottery. This request has
come from a local pottery group in my area and I'm at a loss as what to
charge this group. This goes back to the old question of do I just freely
give this info out? After all, it took me a long time to work out all the
pitfalls in the process. I'm still the only one in my area that does this
type of work. Why do I feel that by teaching this group of potter the in and
outs of horsehair decoration, will in the end lower my sales and cost me
money. Boy, do I hate this question and the way it makes me feel. Vivika
once told me," what you give away you keep forever" I guess she answered my
question once again. I sure miss her.
Chris from Chico Ca. where the sun feels good.
Paul Lewing on thu 1 feb 01
Chris,
Of course you should charge for a workshop! Don't be silly. In what
other line of work would someone who has a skill that people want to
learn even consider doing a seminar for free? And if you charge the
usual going rate for workshops, you'll still be making about 20% of what
you would if your subject was anything else but an art form. And, yes,
you should expect that people will try your technique, and some of them
might even start selling it, in competition with you. If you don't want
that to happen, don't teach the workshop. If you do it, and they start
doing it too, you'll just have to stay better than them. It's not good
advertising for them to have people say, "That looks like Chris' work,
only not as good" when they see theirs.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
L. P. Skeen on thu 1 feb 01
I had to look and be sure that I hadn't written this post at some time when
I wasn't aware of it. I'm in the same boat, only they're wanting a PIT
FIRING workshop. I have no idea what to charge.
LL
Cantello Studios wrote:
> I have been asked to give a workshop on horsehair pottery. This request
has come
> from a local pottery group in my area and I'm at a loss as what to charge
this
> group. This goes back to the old question of do I just freely give this
info out?
> After all, it took me a long time to work out all the pitfalls in the
process.
> I'm still the only one in my area that does this type of work. Why do I
feel that
> by teaching this group of potter the in and outs of horsehair decoration,
will in
> the end lower my sales and cost me money. Boy, do I hate this question and
the
> way it makes me feel. Vivika once told me," what you give away you keep
forever"
> I guess she answered my
> question once again. I sure miss her.
will edwards on thu 1 feb 01
Hello,
While I could have answered Chris privately, he did ask for a joint opini=
on
from the group. Chris, we have a little history of knowing each other, so=
I
suggest you charge them. Your work is very great! It took you a long time=
to
learn the process and if I know you well enough, I think your time is wor=
th
something! Your work is extraordinary...
Vivika and Otto made good money in their work. (No offense) Otto is renow=
ned
for huge dollars for his work. (See his website) You are a living piece o=
f
that legend because you were there with them when you were younger and
apprenticed under their direction. Decide a fair price and give it to the=
m! If
they need the experience of a professional then it is a small price to pa=
y. I
wish I could get you here for a workshop myself...I wouldn't expect it to=
be
free if I could! Get out there and go to work.
William Edwards
Alchemy 101
____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D=
1
Cantello Studios on thu 1 feb 01
I have been asked to give a workshop on horsehair pottery. This request has
come from a local pottery group in my area and I’m at a loss as what to
charge this group. This goes back to the old question of do I just freely
give this info out? After all, it took me a long time to work out all the
pitfalls in the process. I’m still the only one in my area that does this
type of work. Why do I feel that by teaching this group of potter the in and
outs of horsehair decoration, will in the end lower my sales and cost me
money. Boy, do I hate this question and the way it makes me feel. Vivika
once told me,” what you give away you keep forever” I guess she answered my
question once again. I sure miss her.
Chris from Chico Ca. where the sun feels good.
Maid O'Mud Pottery on thu 1 feb 01
If you would pay to attend such a workshop, then you should charge to giv=
e the
workshop IMO.
Cantello Studios wrote:
> I have been asked to give a workshop on horsehair pottery. This request=
has come
> from a local pottery group in my area and I=92m at a loss as what to ch=
arge this
> group. This goes back to the old question of do I just freely give this=
info out?
> After all, it took me a long time to work out all the pitfalls in the p=
rocess.
> I=92m still the only one in my area that does this type of work. Why do=
I feel that
> by teaching this group of potter the in and outs of horsehair decoratio=
n, will in
> the end lower my sales and cost me money. Boy, do I hate this question =
and the
> way it makes me feel. Vivika once told me,=94 what you give away you ke=
ep forever=94
> I guess she answered my
> question once again. I sure miss her.
>
> Chris from Chico Ca. where the sun feels good.
--
Sam, Maid O'Mud Pottery
SW Ontario CANADA
http://www.geocities.com/paris/3110
scuttell@odyssey.on.ca
"First, the clay told me what to do
Then, I told the clay what to do
Now; we co-operate"
sam, 1994
"Effort does not always equal output"
sam, 1999
Anita Rickenberg on thu 1 feb 01
"I have been asked to give a workshop on horsehair pottery. This request =
has
come from a local pottery group in my area and I'm at a loss as what to
charge this group. This goes back to the old question of do I just =
freely
give this info out?"
Why wouldn't you charge them for giving a workshop? Base it on the =
length of the workshop and what materials you provide. People like to =
think they get what they pay for--anything that's free is seldom =
appreciated or valued.
Anita
Cindy Strnad on fri 2 feb 01
Several people have written to say that giving a workshop free of charge
would be folly. I'm not so sure this is the case. Charging for the workshop
could end up being more trouble than it's worth, unless you plan to embark
on a career of workshop teaching.
I sell wholesale and, though I do have a tax number, I file my report every
term with "0" in the tax payable box, because I just don't sell retail.
Well, occasionally, but that has all been out-of-state, so it doesn't count.
In my state, there are sales taxes, excise taxes, service taxes. Hell, they
tax everything tangible and a few things that aren't. We don't have a large
tax base to draw from--that's the excuse. At any rate, I'd just as soon do a
gratis workshop as deal with learning all the new taxes I'd have to deal
with.
Second, if the group expects you to do the workshop in your own studio or at
your own property, you have site insurance to consider. Especially for an
event involving a pit fire. If you're willing to take the risk on your own,
that's fine, of course, but I'm not sure that would be wise, and I'm not
sure it would be legal. If you have the people visiting as friends, that's
one thing, but if they're paying you to be there, they become customers, and
that's a whole 'nother matter. If this troubles you, don't neglect to talk
to your insurance agent before agreeing to have the event at your place.
Chances are good that, with a small group, you can get by without even
thinking about either of these things. I wish you didn't *need* to think
about them. I think the laws in our country are more restrictive than they
should be. But if you're going to break the law, you ought to at least know
you're doing it, so you can be appropriately devious and, we hope, not get
caught. I'm not encouraging this risk, BTW, but it's your call, and I
wouldn't condemn you for it, either.
That said, if you decide to charge for your time, I recommend you call the
local art center, if you have one, and find out what their workshops
customarily run. If not, find out what other teachers charge for their time.
What do piano lessons cost? Karate classes? How much would you spend to
learn how to train your puppy? Is this charge for private or group lessons?
If dance instructors are charging $10/hour group lesson, I really believe
you're entitled to the same.
Especially if the workshop is to take place on your property. If the group
is providing a site, you might charge less. If you have to pay high rates
for one-time site insurance, you may need to charge more.
If you provide materials, you can include them in the lesson cost or sell
them separately (either retail or wholesale). You shouldn't give them away,
but you know that.
Alas, nothing is as simple as it seems.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
Sara O'Neill on fri 2 feb 01
HI Chris,
Let me give you a little perspective on this. My friend who is a speech
pathologist charges a Minimum of $1000. per day plus all expenses for a
workshop. Her presentation, while excellent, is usually only 4 hours long.
Why are we so fearful of charging for the skills we have? Believe in
yourself and value your knowledge.
Sara O'Neill
Geometrix Clay Designs
----- Original Message -----
From: L. P. Skeen
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: Do I give a workshop free or charge?
> I had to look and be sure that I hadn't written this post at some time
when
> I wasn't aware of it. I'm in the same boat, only they're wanting a PIT
> FIRING workshop. I have no idea what to charge.
>
> LL
>
>
> Cantello Studios wrote:
>
> > I have been asked to give a workshop on horsehair pottery. This request
> has come
> > from a local pottery group in my area and I'm at a loss as what to
charge
> this
> > group. This goes back to the old question of do I just freely give this
> info out?
> > After all, it took me a long time to work out all the pitfalls in the
> process.
> > I'm still the only one in my area that does this type of work. Why do I
> feel that
> > by teaching this group of potter the in and outs of horsehair
decoration,
> will in
> > the end lower my sales and cost me money. Boy, do I hate this question
and
> the
> > way it makes me feel. Vivika once told me," what you give away you keep
> forever"
> > I guess she answered my
> > question once again. I sure miss her.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Rhonda Oldland on fri 2 feb 01
When you die do you want to see the process carried on? question answered=
!!!
If others don't teach how can we learn ? How did you learn ? Rhonda S.C.=20
At 10:52 2/1/01 -0800, you wrote:
>I have been asked to give a workshop on horsehair pottery. This request =
has
>come from a local pottery group in my area and I=92m at a loss as what t=
o
>charge this group. This goes back to the old question of do I just freel=
y
>give this info out? After all, it took me a long time to work out all th=
e
>pitfalls in the process. I=92m still the only one in my area that does t=
his
>type of work. Why do I feel that by teaching this group of potter the in=
and
>outs of horsehair decoration, will in the end lower my sales and cost me
>money. Boy, do I hate this question and the way it makes me feel. Vivika
>once told me,=94 what you give away you keep forever=94 I guess she answ=
ered my
>question once again. I sure miss her.
>
>Chris from Chico Ca. where the sun feels good.
>
>________________________________________________________________________=
___
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
WHew536674@CS.COM on fri 2 feb 01
This is not exactly a work shop situation, but it is related. The gallery
where I have some of my work, asked me if I would be interested in doing a
demo. She has a lot of high end clients and has done a couple of these in
the past with a couple other artists she represents (not pottery, other
areas), She sends out invitations and there is a $10 charge for the demo per
person. The artist receives a percentage of the doors take for the day
(forgot what percentage off hand) and it is good for sales. I don't think
she would expect for a minute that I would do this for free, and didn't even
give me a chance to think about it. So I said fine, and I am scheduled to do
a pottery demo in March. She is a good business woman, pays commissions on
time, does a lot of advertising, has a monthly news letter that she sends out
to clients, and a web site. It's really nice doing business with her, as she
is the only show in town, that helps. Any other galleries are 250 miles
away. I'm at the end of the earth on the Mexican border. Not too much
longer I hope.
Joyce A
L. P. Skeen on sat 3 feb 01
When you die do you want to see the process carried on? question answered
!!!
If others don't teach how can we learn ? How did you learn ? Rhonda S.C.
>>>I learned from a woman who lives in England - thus I am no threat to her
livelihood (SP?) nor she to mine.
L
tomsawyer on sun 4 feb 01
In reference to charging for workshops, doesn't it in part depend on the
situation. Here in Orlando, we have a wonderful high school program that the
teacher Mike Lalone [Kansas City Art Institute] runs. Mike has been teacher
of the year, I belive twice in recent years. The school Dr. Phillips is a
magnet school for the arts in Orlando and has a student body of
approximately 4500 students. Yep the ceramic program gets shorted. Somehow
by hook or crook, Mike manages to put have 5-10 ceramic artist put on
workshops for his students. I know many of the local potters do workshops
for free. Every year 3-4 out of state potters come and accept a small
honorarium [less than what they otherwise charge]. Every year Mike has
several senior student go on to college to major in ceramics. This certainly
is a different situation than a workshop done for retirees or practicing
potters. I hope that those on the listserve that immediately advocate
charging for workshops keep in mind the varying circumstances. Thanks
Tom Sawyer
tsawyer@cfl.rr.com
Russel Fouts on sun 4 feb 01
I agree with most of the comments here, your time is worth money. If they
want you to do the workshop, They should be able to pay you for your time
and preparation. Or there should be some other kind of compensation.
I've given other workshops and just finished my first paper clay workshop. I
had a great time, they had a great time, We all made some new friends, I got
paid, they got a bunch of new techniques and a whole new avenue of
exploration. Seems pretty even to me.
I have done 2 hr demos for people for free (well ok they have to feed me).
These were fun, not too demanding, met some great people, got to "spread the
word". Again, seemed like a good deal to me.
Russel
Russel Fouts
Mes Potes & Mes Pots
Brussels, Belgium
Tel: +32 2 223 02 75
Mobile: +32 476 55 38 75
Http://www.mypots.com
http://www.Japan-Net.ne.jp/~iwcat
dayton j grant on mon 5 feb 01
right... the youth is where it lies for us... those that dont see that
are not on the same boat...... i think that once you have reached your
prime ,if you are any good you owe it to your artform to find an
enthusiastic apprentice and pass the torch .....that is the real reason
to develop a following ,is to foster enthusiasm for the art ... those of
us that serve the art openly mock those that would have the art serve
them ...if you give me a quarter or a frog or somethin ill let you help
me paint the fence
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Lili Krakowski on mon 5 feb 01
That you ask indicates you have doubts. As with all such questions you
must decide what makes you more comfortable. There are people giving
workshop for a lot of $, there are others who feel that knowledge is
some tbhing we are morally bound to share. No matter what I think you
expenses should be paid, as well as an approximation of your time.
I doubt there is one answer. Decide what makes you feel best about
yourself!!!
On Thu, 1 Feb 2001, Anita Rickenberg wrote:
> "I have been asked to give a workshop on horsehair pottery. This request has
> come from a local pottery group in my area and I'm at a loss as what to
> charge this group. This goes back to the old question of do I just freely
> give this info out?"
>
> Why wouldn't you charge them for giving a workshop? Base it on the length of the workshop and what materials you provide. People like to think they get what they pay for--anything that's free is seldom appreciated or valued.
>
> Anita
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
Lili Krakowski
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