vince pitelka on wed 14 feb 01
Dos Craig or Hank or John H. or Ron or anyone else know the approximate
ratios of the early Chinese simple wood ash/feldspar (petuntze) "Shanghai"
glazes? One of my students has a hankering to investigate them, and has
been unable to find that information with any of the resources we have here
at the Craft Center.
Thanks and best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Hank Murrow on thu 15 feb 01
>Dos Craig or Hank or John H. or Ron or anyone else know the approximate
>ratios of the early Chinese simple wood ash/feldspar (petuntze) "Shanghai"
>glazes? One of my students has a hankering to investigate them, and has
>been unable to find that information with any of the resources we have here
>at the Craft Center.
>Thanks and best wishes -
>- Vince
Hank further replies after study in Wood's book;
On page 268 there is a nice table giving recipes for Shang glaze,
interpreted in western materials. On pages 108-9 there is a nice discussion
of Shang whitewares(stonewares). On pages32-3 there is discussion of early
woodash/limestone/silaceous-clay glazes which contains useful suggestions
concerning how one might proceed in replicating them. There is also on page
32 a lineblend test bar by the author showing where the eutectic lay. Hope
these references add something to what Dennis Davis offered in an earlier
post.
Good Hunting! Hank in Eugene
Dennis Davis on thu 15 feb 01
Cindy,
Yes, a great book. Nice photos of pots and kilns and potters at work. Book is out
of print but can be found by searching online.
One of the potters in the book, W.J.. Gordy and his wife, showed up at Penland
School one Sunday when I was there in 1977. This was during a concentration
session and most of us were very serious and in the pottery 7 days a week. Mr.
Gordy was dressed in his Sunday best.. After introductions and some conversation,
Mr. Gordy proceeded to take his coat off, roll up the sleeves of his white shirt
and show us a few throwing tricks. Most memorable was when he threw a plate and
before we knew what happened, turned it into a beautiful pitcher. Memorable!.
Dennis in Warrenton, VA
John Hesselberth on thu 15 feb 01
vince pitelka wrote:
>Dos Craig or Hank or John H. or Ron or anyone else know the approximate
>ratios of the early Chinese simple wood ash/feldspar (petuntze) "Shanghai"
>glazes? One of my students has a hankering to investigate them, and has
>been unable to find that information with any of the resources we have here
>at the Craft Center.
Hi Vince,
Sanders "Glazes for Special Effects", page 70 says (quoting a Japanese
potter), "The Chinese would prepare bracken (fern) in a great pile about
10 meters by 30 meters...then weight it down with limestone... and stack
alternate layers...Then they would burn it...The resulting mixture of
bracken ash and calcium was mixed with feldspar..10 parts by volume
feldspar and 12 parts by volume ash" That might get your student started.
Regards, John
"The life so short, the craft so long to learn." Hippocrates, 5th cent.
B.C.
Hank Murrow on thu 15 feb 01
>Dos Craig or Hank or John H. or Ron or anyone else know the approximate
>ratios of the early Chinese simple wood ash/feldspar (petuntze) "Shanghai"
>glazes? One of my students has a hankering to investigate them, and has
>been unable to find that information with any of the resources we have here
>at the Craft Center.
>Thanks and best wishes -
>- Vince
Hey Vince;
Tell your student that I've looked in "Chinese Glazes" by Nigel
Wood without finding anything under the name of Shanghai. There are lots of
mole formulas for various combinations of petuntse&ash in Wood's book, but
I can't decipher just what your person is looking for. i imagine that if
your student were to look at this book, they'd find some very useful info.
Meanwhile, Tell 'em to try a line blend of ash and PV clay, which
is the closest commercially mined sub for petunste.
Cheers! Hank in Eugene
Dennis Davis on thu 15 feb 01
Vince's message asking for info on Shanghai glazes jogged my memory. I can't
forget the only glaze name I have seen with the word Shanghai in it. The recipe is
from Georgia potter Lanier Meaders and from the book "Raised in Clay, The Southern
Pottery Tradition" by Nancy Sweezy (published by the Smithsonian in 1984). Quoting
Meaders "The glaze I'm using now is what they call 'Shanghai' or 'baccer spit', but
to me it's just plain, old, wood ash glaze. ....... It's about fifty percent
clay, forty percent wood ashes and ten percent feldspar and whiting or lime. I
reckon that's the oldest known glaze in the entire world. It's supposed to come
from this country from somewhere in China, but it don't necessarily have to come
from Shanghai - just so it come from China. Well, anybody mention China in this
country, Shanghai is the first word that comes to mind."
A note states that Lanier's father, Cheever, made his "Shanghai" or ash glaze of
iron-bearing pond-clay settlings, wood ash (preferably oak) and powdered glass,
ground together wet between flat hand-turned glazing rocks.
Dennis in Warrenton, VA
Cindy Strnad on thu 15 feb 01
Dennis,
I loved this post. Is the whole book like that? I will have to find a
copy--it sounds priceless.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
Janet Kaiser on fri 16 feb 01
But was there mention of WHEN to cut the
bracken, John?
David Frith told me of the time they harvested
huge amounts of bracken one autumn, spending
several days collecting and reducing it to ash.
The result was extremely disappointing and not
at all like an earlier test.
Then they realised that all the trace elements
would have been gone by then and it would have
been much better using green bracken in the
spring or summer, before the onset of the fall.
Bracken used to be harvested in Wales for animal
bedding in the winter. Called the Red Harvest or
Medi Coch, I last saw it in the 1960s. Bracken
has been replaced by straw, so when it was
reported to be carcinogenic, it was no longer a
threat to farmers. However, bracken is becoming
more of a pernicious weed since they stopped
cutting it down and there are fewer cows
trampling it.
BTW bracken is a specific type of fern, found on
hillsides and mountain pastures. I do not think
any old fern would be a substitute.
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
> Sanders "Glazes for Special Effects", page 70
says (quoting a Japanese
> potter), "The Chinese would prepare bracken
(fern) in a great pile about
> 10 meters by 30 meters...then weight it down
with limestone... and stack
> alternate layers...Then they would burn
it...The resulting mixture of
> bracken ash and calcium was mixed with
feldspar..10 parts by volume
> feldspar and 12 parts by volume ash" That
might get your student started.
Janice Lipuma on sat 17 feb 01
Vince,
It might be helpful to track down a copy of the book Chinese Stoneware
Glazes: Ancient Glazes Recreated for Today's Potter by Joseph
Grebanier,Watson-Guptill, 1975. ISBN 0-273-00909-5. There are wonderful
color photographs and lots of information.
Regards,
Janice Lipuma
C. A. Sanger on sun 18 feb 01
I found some information about this topic in Foxfire 8, a large
section on southern potteries. According to the authors, it is believed
the "Shanghai" glaze was a conscious replication of the Chinese Shang
recipes, first published in the 18th century. The southerners also
called it "baccer spit" glazes cause it looked like brown runs of
tobacco juice. The authors speculate it was deliberately adopted, using
local materials, to replace the native alkaline glaze of choice, salt
glaze. Local materials were cheaper and easier to come by than salt.
In the book, one pottery used "pond settlings," ashes (preferably
oak), sand (and later, ground glass), and water. One potter liked to
use oak ash after the neighbors had used the ash to make lye soap; it
was less caustic on his hands. (Whole new meaning to washed ash!) He
noted pine ash cause the glaze to flow too much. His formula was 3
measures of ash to one or two measures of settlings, and just enough
water to make it smooth, but thick. Then grind between grinding stones
two or three times. It made a brownish glaze. White sand was often
added; iron sand used for dark reddish or black color. Albany Slip came
to be used as a substitute later, although potters didn't like it as
well. It failed to flow as easily as the native formula, so
imperfections in the ware would fail to seal over.
Those interested in historical pottery production should enjoy
looking at the photos of their equipment. Mule-driven devices, crude
scales made with wire and weathered wood pieces, grinding stones for
glaze making, ball openers, etc. Examples of their work are shown, and
descriptions of their daily lives. It's an interesting read!
C. A. Sanger
ShardRock Clay Studio
Kansas, USA
www.ikansas.com/~chuck/
vince pitelka on sun 18 feb 01
Janice -
I thank you for this suggestion. We are ordering books for our library
right now, so your suggestion could not have been more timely.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
----- Original Message -----
From: Janice Lipuma
To:
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2001 8:03 AM
Subject: Re: Shanghai Glaze
> Vince,
> It might be helpful to track down a copy of the book Chinese Stoneware
> Glazes: Ancient Glazes Recreated for Today's Potter by Joseph
> Grebanier,Watson-Guptill, 1975. ISBN 0-273-00909-5. There are wonderful
> color photographs and lots of information.
>
> Regards,
> Janice Lipuma
>
>
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Mudnjoy@AOL.COM on sun 18 feb 01
In a message dated 2/15/01 4:17:21 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
dhdavis@EROLS.COM writes:
> It's about fifty percent
> clay, forty percent wood ashes and ten percent feldspar and whiting or
lime.
> I
> reckon that's the oldest known glaze in the entire world.
Now is that 50% of the clay body the glaze will be applied on or a lower clay
body.
>ten percent feldspar and whiting or lime.<
What? Is that 5% feldspar and 5%whiting or 10% feldspar or whiting or lime?
And WHAT cone does this glaze mature?
And thanks for submitting the low tech historic type of materials that I love.
Ahh started an artist's Potter's page on my web site. Should be up Monday
evening. If I might quote Bowen Dickson NW potter "Thank God for Geeks!"
Joy In Tucson Back in the studio again and loving it.
URL: http://holdreadstudios.hypermart.net/
E-mail: Mudnjoy@aol.com
"Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want."
David Meaders on thu 22 may 03
Shanghai is the name my grand father Cheever Meaders gave to a glaze he =
made out of local materials gathered from his farm.
David Meaders
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