Helen Bates on thu 1 mar 01
A lot of Clay artists here (Hyperlinked names listed but not sorted by
media):
http://artistsguilds.com/artists_directory.htm
Smiothsonian Crafts Artists Show Spring 2001:
http://www.smithsoniancraftshow.com/exhibitors2.htm#ceramics
I'm going "NOMAIL" now. See y'all in a week or so.
Helen
--
...........................
: Helen Bates :
: mailto:nell@quintenet.com :
...........................
artimater on mon 13 aug 01
I loved mel's quote from FLW....That is how it is.....It's =
like..."Can't I have a little peace???.....BUT YOU TONY....Might have to =
bust your chops a bit.....Whether or not you are an artist does not =
depend on where do you get your money honey...In fact from my =
experience(considerable) those who manage to scam the most money from =
clay are the least likely to be artists....Money in clay usually comes =
from daddy sending some wanna be through mega college for many =
years.....Then the guvment pays them to reproduce.....so we end up with =
a million ceramix teachers and no ceramics artists....Tell me how are =
you gonna progress in your work if you spend 50 hours a week dicktating =
to those who you look upon as inferior to your highly educated =
ass....The good question would be how much toothpaste comes from the =
guvment and how much from clay....Do you think Van Goph would have =
become VAN GOPH if he had been a fat pig well greased by the =
guvment??....Hell no, he was an artist so he traded multimillion dollar =
pics for moldy bread and carried on....If there are not plenty =
toothmarks on your butt your work will be the vapid, mundane, dead =
bullshit that is so easily found.....And when your ass is in a constant =
state of mastication you recognize what the whole point of producing art =
is....It is sure as hell not the easy purchase of commodity, nor the =
ability to join the mass consumption crowd....Well, all these teachers I =
have just insulted are gonna rise up and say "no way, not me".....HEHEHE =
I'm not fooled....I am often stifled by lack of funds....That only =
inspires me and makes me wanna go harder when I can....There was a =
recent thread about "how do I get inspired?"....Try nailing your shoe to =
your bedroom floor for a week or two....If you are an artist eventually =
you will rip that toe off and get with it with more fresh ideas than =
time to realize them....
Then there is the production potter......Do they secretly long to =
build up a mass of hundreds of molds and mass produce that one dead =
piece they are so fond of?
Send me no snakes ....I have only to look in the grass to find =
plenty....Indulgences are in short supply recently so feel free to send =
me some of that good bread....even if it's a little moldy...I wash it =
down with Red Stripe and figure the alcohol will take care of the mold
Rush
"I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
http://www.geocities.com/artimator/index.html
artimator@earthlink.net
Patrick Logue on mon 13 aug 01
Show me somebody who has never compromised their art
and i'll show you somebody with no bills to pay.
Give me a break.
--- artimater wrote:
> I loved mel's quote from FLW....That is how it
> is.....It's like..."Can't I have a little
> peace???.....BUT YOU TONY....Might have to bust your
> chops a bit.....Whether or not you are an artist
> does not depend on where do you get your money
> honey...In fact from my experience(considerable)
> those who manage to scam the most money from clay
> are the least likely to be artists....Money in clay
> usually comes from daddy sending some wanna be
> through mega college for many years.....Then the
> guvment pays them to reproduce.....so we end up with
> a million ceramix teachers and no ceramics
> artists....Tell me how are you gonna progress in
> your work if you spend 50 hours a week dicktating to
> those who you look upon as inferior to your highly
> educated ass....The good question would be how much
> toothpaste comes from the guvment and how much from
> clay....Do you think Van Goph would have become VAN
> GOPH if he had been a fat pig well greased by the
> guvment??....Hell no, he was an artist so he traded
> multimillion dollar pics for moldy bread and carried
> on....If there are not plenty toothmarks on your
> butt your work will be the vapid, mundane, dead
> bullshit that is so easily found.....And when your
> ass is in a constant state of mastication you
> recognize what the whole point of producing art
> is....It is sure as hell not the easy purchase of
> commodity, nor the ability to join the mass
> consumption crowd....Well, all these teachers I have
> just insulted are gonna rise up and say "no way, not
> me".....HEHEHE I'm not fooled....I am often stifled
> by lack of funds....That only inspires me and makes
> me wanna go harder when I can....There was a recent
> thread about "how do I get inspired?"....Try nailing
> your shoe to your bedroom floor for a week or
> two....If you are an artist eventually you will rip
> that toe off and get with it with more fresh ideas
> than time to realize them....
> Then there is the production potter......Do they
> secretly long to build up a mass of hundreds of
> molds and mass produce that one dead piece they are
> so fond of?
> Send me no snakes ....I have only to look in
> the grass to find plenty....Indulgences are in short
> supply recently so feel free to send me some of that
> good bread....even if it's a little moldy...I wash
> it down with Red Stripe and figure the alcohol will
> take care of the mold
> Rush
>
> "I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a
> supply of indulgences and snakes handy"
> http://www.geocities.com/artimator/index.html
> artimator@earthlink.net
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
__________________________________________________
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Anne Pfeiffer on tue 14 aug 01
To add more to the slippery titles:
An artist is someone with a compulsion to make things coupled with a compulsion to be innovative, creative. (Like Frank Lloyd Wright's motor). They can't help it, and would probably be quite miserable if they tried to stop. Like an athelete has a compulsion to work their body and improve technique, if they had to stop they might go crazy. If we artist's were marooned on an unihabited island, we would probably just start making things out of sticks, rocks, whatever was at hand. It is the way our brains are put together. If your work speaks to others, that is a nice benefit. If it speaks to many, many others, you might be labelled "great artist".
As for "professional": If a professional web-page designer decided to cut back on his business in order to be the primary caregiver to his children, because his wife is making really big bucks as a banker, does that mean he is no longer a professional, but just a hobbyist? I hope not. After teaching full-time for many years, I took a half-time position because I felt my children needed more parenting. Does that mean I am less a professional than my colleagues? Thank goodness my supervisors and my colleagues don't consider me less professional than them just because my paycheck is smaller. I am still held just as accountable as them. I take my job just as seriously as them, and I continue to attend seminars, workshops, classes. In a way I think I am more professional then some full-timers who have burned out and are just waiting to retire. Perhaps we shouldn't equate professionalism with amount of salary. If you are well-educated and experienced in your field, maybe you should be labeled "professional" whether you are doing it part-time or full-time.
P.S. If we would respect part-timers as much as full-timers, we might have fewer latch-key children!
Anne
artimater on sat 18 aug 01
I was born an artist....
Rush
"I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
http://www.geocities.com/artimator/index.html
artimator@earthlink.net
vince pitelka on sat 18 aug 01
> Art calls for complete mastery of techniques,
> developed by reflection within the soul...
> Masters in all branches of art must first be masters
> of living, for the soul creates everything...
> All vague notions must fall away, before a pupil can
> call himself a master...
With all due respect to Bruce Lee, this is very limiting. I would be more
comfortable with it if the first sentence said "The creation of great art
generally calls for complete mastery of techniques" etc. In truth, any
beginner stands a chance of creating great art if they have a good eye and a
good hand. I am entirely in favor of broad fluency in process, technique,
and materials, and a broad awareness of art/ceramics past and present. I
think that the artist stands the best chance of creating great art with this
kind of background. But it does not preclude the possibility that the
untrained artist or rank beginner will create great art.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Patrick Logue on sat 18 aug 01
Art calls for complete mastery of techniques,
developed by reflection within the soul...
Masters in all branches of art must first be masters
of living, for the soul creates everything...
All vague notions must fall away, before a pupil can
call himself a master...
Bruce Lee
(hes got a million of em)
--- artimater wrote:
> I was born an artist....
> Rush
>
> "I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a
> supply of indulgences and snakes handy"
> http://www.geocities.com/artimator/index.html
> artimator@earthlink.net
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
__________________________________________________
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Marie Gibbons on sun 19 aug 01
I have been off list for a couple weeks... and looking thru the archieves
this thread caught my attention.... I think that another aspect of 'the
artist' is that 'they' see things differently.... they 'see' things in
nature, in technology, in everyday life, in the work they create, and the
work that they observe... an artist, in my opinion, is one with a different
type of vision. I can remember vividly when I became aware of my own
'vision' and how it is always looking for something to tune into.
marie gibbons
www.oooladies.com
Sheron Roberts on sun 19 aug 01
Thanks Vince
You make me feel better about myself.
I am not saying I create great art, I just
like to believe that what I do IS art. =20
I overheard my teacher telling another
teacher in the ceramics department
at our college, in regards to a=20
very gifted student,=20
"Every now and then
you get a wildcard." =20
Sheron
Patrick Logue on sun 19 aug 01
I heard somebody say once that "if you cant do it
twice you are not an artist"meaning the creation of a
great work.
I like this thread, just doing my part to fan the
flames.
Pat
P.S. as a master in his chosen art form Bruce lee was
never beaten.
--- vince pitelka wrote:
> > Art calls for complete mastery of techniques,
> > developed by reflection within the soul...
> > Masters in all branches of art must first be
> masters
> > of living, for the soul creates everything...
> > All vague notions must fall away, before a pupil
> can
> > call himself a master...
>
> With all due respect to Bruce Lee, this is very
> limiting. I would be more
> comfortable with it if the first sentence said "The
> creation of great art
> generally calls for complete mastery of techniques"
> etc. In truth, any
> beginner stands a chance of creating great art if
> they have a good eye and a
> good hand. I am entirely in favor of broad fluency
> in process, technique,
> and materials, and a broad awareness of art/ceramics
> past and present. I
> think that the artist stands the best chance of
> creating great art with this
> kind of background. But it does not preclude the
> possibility that the
> untrained artist or rank beginner will create great
> art.
> Best wishes -
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Crafts
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
> 615/597-5376
> Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
> http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
__________________________________________________
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vince pitelka on sun 19 aug 01
You wrote:
"You make me feel better about myself.
I am not saying I create great art, I just
like to believe that what I do IS art."
Sheron -
Ahhh, my work is done. Glad I could be of help. I think the first step to
making good art is to think of oneself as an artist. Some people hover
continually on the insecure edge of artistry. That is counter-productive,
and makes the process much more difficult. We all have insecurities now and
then, but we should not be insecure about calling ourselves artists or about
the process of making art.
"I overheard my teacher telling another
teacher in the ceramics department
at our college, in regards to a
very gifted student,
"Every now and then
you get a wildcard.""
That could be taken several ways. I they meant "wild" in the purest sense
of the word, then it is a shame, because it seems so negative to look at the
gifted student as "strange" or "wild." On the other hand, if the teacher
truly meant the dictionary definition of "wild card," then they probably
meant a student of wide-open possibility and tremendous potential, and I
quite like that.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
K. Sam Miller on mon 20 aug 01
Jim comments...
> Artists often seem to best see color, texture, contrast and pattern. It
> would be interesting to speculate on what engineers, salespeople, or other
> occupations see more acutely than others. I suppose one would have to
> question what was important to the occupation.
Well Jim, I can give my 2 cents from the engineering perspective (my "day
job" ;^) ).
The engineer is always looking for solutions to problems. As such, the
details can be very important (what angle the temperature probe is at in a
oil line, for example). The challenge that many new engineers have is in
seeing the big picture (the old "can't see the forest for the trees"
scenario). I find that the visual way I process information as an artist
serves me well as an engineer in seeing the big picture and not obsessing
with the detail. On the other hand, the creative problem solving that my
engineering training provides has much application to my hand-built
sculpture.
This could be an interesting thread, for those of us who consider ourselves
artists but have a day job to support our passion.
Sam
H.M. Buchanan on mon 20 aug 01
You are correct we see.But a master is able ,with his work, to make others
see too. I think the definition of art is the sharing of that vision.
they 'see' things in
> nature, in technology, in everyday life, in the work they create, and the
> work that they observe... an artist, in my opinion, is one with a
different
> type of vision. >
Jim Larkin on mon 20 aug 01
Marie may be right that artists "see things differently". Sometimes, though,
I have heard artists claim to be "more observant" than most folks. I don't
feel this is necessarily true. I've been to the woods with artists and with
old time woodsmen. The woodsman will see ginsing, morels, or a squirrel when
the artist will stumble right past. The woodsman will detect shifts in the
wind, temperature changes and cloud pattern changes that the artist is
oblivious to. We see what is important to us and what we train ourselves to
see. Artists often seem to best see color, texture, contrast and pattern. It
would be interesting to speculate on what engineers, salespeople, or other
occupations see more acutely than others. I suppose one would have to
question what was important to the occupation.
Jim Larkin
Fox Pass Pottery
379 Fox Pass
Hot Springs, Arkansas
71901
foxpass@aristotle.net
----- Original Message -----
From: Marie Gibbons
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 19, 2001 10:29 PM
Subject: Re: artists
> I have been off list for a couple weeks... and looking thru the archieves
> this thread caught my attention.... I think that another aspect of 'the
> artist' is that 'they' see things differently.... they 'see' things in
> nature, in technology, in everyday life, in the work they create, and the
> work that they observe... an artist, in my opinion, is one with a
different
> type of vision. I can remember vividly when I became aware of my own
> 'vision' and how it is always looking for something to tune into.
>
> marie gibbons
> www.oooladies.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Allyson May on mon 25 aug 03
To Vince and others; this artist discussion has caused me to question my =
reasoning a bit. A couple of years ago I was at a workshop and the =
presenter called me a craftsman because of the attention to detail in my =
work. She continued to refer to me as a craftsman the rest of the week =
and it really hurt my feelings. I wanted to be thought of as an artist! =
In the confines of my very small brain I had developed the idea that an =
artist was moved to create things of beauty and truth from a force that =
not all people could respond to or understand. I was in awe of =
"artists"! On the flip side I believed that craftsmen, though =
incredibly talented, created things out of need for themselves or at the =
request of their customers. If trained, anyone could become a craftsman =
but not all would be called to be artists. Was I wrong in my reasoning? =
I still want to be thought of as an artist however, I am pleased that =
people are able to see the amount of time and effort I put into my work.
Allyson May
Stoney Creek Pottery
Bloomington, Indiana
Jan L. Peterson on mon 25 aug 03
Craftsman is a compliment, too. Some craftsmen shoe horses, some are
silversmiths, some build skyscrapers, some carve wood. True, like artists, they are
either talented from birth, or taught. Artist, to me, is the owner of the Mall
my store is in. She paints on canvas. Some are really pretty good, some are
awful. She build areas in the store, no measuring, nothing but an idea, and
somehow, it works. She could nail the walls down though, I almost got crushed
under one, and the guy on the ladder on the other side, must have gotten the ride
of his life.
Craftsman is a good word. It means everything is going to come out a quality
product, instead of the artists will come out however he/she feels at the
time. I paint, primarily. I do other things, too. People think I'm an artist, but
I don't. I'm just someone who likes to do things. Jan, the Alleycat
Hendrix, Taylor J on mon 25 aug 03
Allyson May,
Now that I am out of the closet, I feel that I can answer
your question with the most irreverence of anyone else on
the list (Arti is still on vacation). As soon as you do
Vince's 12 steps, you're an artist. I even bet Vince
would say that you don't even HAVE to do all twelve nor
do them in any particular order. Right Vince?
So artist is as artist does. In that regard, you should
look on the label of "craftsman" as a high complement,
for while all are called to be artists only a few obtain
the level of craftsman (or woman).
I could be way off on this; my back still itches. Vince
is my slack, so he will set you straight if you try to=20
mess with me.
Taylor, In Waco
-----Original Message-----
From: Allyson May [mailto:AMay4@MSN.COM]=20
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 10:00 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Artists
To Vince and others; this artist discussion has caused me to question my
reasoning a bit. ... Was I wrong in my reasoning? I still want to be
thought of as an artist however, I am pleased that people are able to
see the amount of time and effort I put into my work.
Allyson May
John Rodgers on mon 25 aug 03
Allyson, in my Alaska studio, I had two ladies working for me. Both=20
painter types. I considered one and artist, and the other an artisan. Why=
?
One, a young lady who had worked for me through highschool, had the=20
ability to sit and paint image and scene and face on my porcelains=20
without ever looking up or at any thing. She zeroed in on the working=20
surface and proceeded to paint in china paints. She required no=20
outlines, no patterns, nada. She could conjure up images in her mind=20
that simply didn't exist anywhere else.
The other, also a skilled painter, couldn't paint anything original if=20
her life depended on it. She was a whiz at combining things she had seen =
somewhere into something that appeared new, and she could copy what was=20
in front of her in such exact detail you would think it was the=20
original, but wasn't. Over time I had many like her pass through my=20
shop. But in all the years my shop was open, I only had the one girl=20
that I ever considered really an artist. The rest were=20
artisans.....highly skilled craftpersons, extremely good at what they=20
did, but not "artists". There was a cedrtain element of originality that =
was missing in their work. That was really ok too, as we are not all cut =
out to be "artists" by this definition. But this to me was the=20
difference between being and "artist" and not being one.
Me? I'm an artisan.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Birmingham, AL
Allyson May wrote:
>To Vince and others; this artist discussion has caused me to question my=
reasoning a bit. A couple of years ago I was at a workshop and the pres=
enter called me a craftsman because of the attention to detail in my work=
=2E She continued to refer to me as a craftsman the rest of the week and=
it really hurt my feelings. I wanted to be thought of as an artist! In=
the confines of my very small brain I had developed the idea that an art=
ist was moved to create things of beauty and truth from a force that not =
all people could respond to or understand. I was in awe of "artists"! O=
n the flip side I believed that craftsmen, though incredibly talented, cr=
eated things out of need for themselves or at the request of their custom=
ers. If trained, anyone could become a craftsman but not all would be ca=
lled to be artists. Was I wrong in my reasoning? I still want to be tho=
ught of as an artist however, I am pleased that people are able to see th=
e amount of time and effort I put into my work.
>
>Allyson May
>Stoney Creek Pottery
>Bloomington, Indiana
>
>________________________________________________________________________=
______
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pcli=
nk.com.
>
> =20
>
Elca Branman on mon 25 aug 03
Artist is one word. It can be modified by adjectives, like"great artist"
or lousy artist".
Craftsman can also be modified in a similar fashion.
In the USA , at least, artist has takes on a different meaning..it is
often used to describe a master at his craft, as in Fellini is an
artist, YoYo Ma is an artist etc. Possibly it is a word in transition
and has come to mean what master used to mean; language changes whether
we like it or not,
In any case we all do whatever we do..some of us adequately and some of
us very well . Mediocre artists have as much a right to make art as do
good artists. But the art stands alone and should not be judged by
reputation of the maker or the title he/she holds.
I think we've all seen some daubs from the masters and an occasional gem
from an unknown...What difference does it make who calls whom what, if
we are talking about art?(Of course it make a huge difference if we are
selling or buying it ; no question that a ragged poor drawing with a
recognizable name will cost more and be bought before a fine drawing by
an unknown. That is art as a commodity,a part of the business world.
)
Those of us involved in the process of making art are artists . We may or
may not be good artists, but we are artists And the sad truth is we can
only be as good as we can be. Does that makes us any less real?
Elca Branman
http://www.elcabranman.com
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Vince Pitelka on mon 25 aug 03
Allyson May wrote:
"If trained, anyone could become a craftsman but not all would be called to
be artists. Was I wrong in my reasoning? I still want to be thought of as
an artist however, I am pleased that people are able to see the amount of
time and effort I put into my work."
Allyson -
I can understand your response to the experience, but to me it was a
compliment to call you a craftsman under those circumstances. I do believe
strongly that anyone who communicates through visual media is an artist.
What else do we have to call someone who communicates through visual media?
On the other hand, to be called a craftsman implies that you practice fine
craftsmanship, and that is indeed a compliment. It is curious that we have
come to a point where "craftsperson" means anyone who practices a craft,
whether it is macrame plant hangers, duck cutouts in pastel colors, or
pottery, and whether or not the work is any good at all. But saying that
someone is a craftsman seems to imply that they produce very fine work. I
wonder how we came to this difference in interpretation?
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Gail Dapogny on tue 26 aug 03
Ahhhh....mea culpa, MEA CULPA!! How could I have been so ignorant? My
tail is tucked and I am back to Step One. I do hope that you and Taylor
realized that this was an INNOCENT mistake. I will mend my ways.STEP ONE
IT IS. Successive steps will be accomplished deliberately, clear and
distinct, as an individual endeavor, mutually exclusive of and
> entirely separate from each of the adjacent steps.
I warn you though: once committed, I move fast. Step Eight is just around
the corner.
Gail
Gail Dapogny
gdapogny@umich.edu
Ann Arbor, Michigan
--On Tuesday, August 26, 2003 7:57 PM -0500 Vince Pitelka
wrote:
> > Ah, well, I have to go to bed so that I can do Step Eight tomorrow
> > Gail Dapogny in Ann Arbor
>
> Oh no, Gail, Gail Gail, wait just a minute! There are no shortcuts in
> this program! You say you're already to step eight? I'm sorry, but
> Taylor and I just published the ANA (Artists Non-Anonymous - thanks Tig
> for that) 12-step program a few days ago, and you could not possibly have
> advanced to step eight already, unless you somehow deemed yourself worthy
> of skipping steps along the way. Believe me, that simply does not work.
PurpleLama@AOL.COM on tue 26 aug 03
So, Vince, how do we get sponsors for this 12 step program?
Shula
in foggy Redondo Beach, CA
there's something comforting about hearing those fog horns.
//There are no shortcuts in this program! . . . I'm sorry, but Taylor and I
just published the ANA (Artists Non-Anonymous - thanks Tig for that) 12-step
program a few days ago, and you could not possibly have advanced to step
eight already, unless you somehow deemed yourself worthy of skipping steps
along the way. //
Dapogny.Gail on tue 26 aug 03
I find this squeamishness with the designation "artist" to be truly
puzzling. It's the first cousin of the issue of under-pricing our work
because we're only potters.
In this day and age, we do indeed differentiate and specialize. But terms
such as potter/artist, or craftsman/artist are not mutually exclusive. My
friend is a pediatrician. And she's a physician. I'm a potter. And I'm
an artist: I communicate through visual media ( Vince); I am involved in
producing works of art (Elca). How well I do it is another subject.
My dictionary (Webster's New Universal Unabridged), uses wording only
slightly different from Gayle's. Its initial definition for "artist" is "a
person who produces works in any of the arts that are PRIMARILY SUBJECT TO
AESTHETIC CRITERIA." That's what we do. We turn ourselves inside out on
this list trying to come to terms not only with glazes, clay bodies,
firing, kilns, effects, but also a host of aestheic ideas, and these are
all bound up together, this marriage of workmanship and aesthetics. Who
knows where one leaves off and the other begins, or when and how they
overlap.
Ah, well, I have to go to bed so that I can do Step Eight tomorrow
Gail Dapogny in Ann Arbor
P.S. We're not going to change our name to ClayCraft, are we?
claybair on tue 26 aug 03
Heh,heh...
Just be glad we are not debating what to call ourselves
in German.
I can see it now......
Person who after much study, thought, education
manipulates clay into various forms, applies
various combinations of elements to the forms,
then fires it multiple times in a box that gets very hot,
upon removal the pieces are scrutinized kept or destroyed,
the ones kept are placed away, displayed or sold with the
hope the aesthetic quality will produce success, fame
& fortune.
Maybe I'll have my daughter translate the above into German!!!
I should be working in the studio but Vince's hilarious posting
was all the excuse I needed to go goofy!
Gayle Bair - Formerly known as an artist
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
Snip<
I find this squeamishness with the designation "artist" to be truly
puzzling. It's the first cousin of the issue of under-pricing our work
because we're only potters.
In this day and age, we do indeed differentiate and specialize. But terms
such as potter/artist, or craftsman/artist are not mutually exclusive. My
friend is a pediatrician. And she's a physician. I'm a potter. And I'm
an artist: I communicate through visual media ( Vince); I am involved in
producing works of art (Elca). How well I do it is another subject.
My dictionary (Webster's New Universal Unabridged), uses wording only
slightly different from Gayle's. Its initial definition for "artist" is "a
person who produces works in any of the arts that are PRIMARILY SUBJECT TO
AESTHETIC CRITERIA." That's what we do. We turn ourselves inside out on
this list trying to come to terms not only with glazes, clay bodies,
firing, kilns, effects, but also a host of aestheic ideas, and these are
all bound up together, this marriage of workmanship and aesthetics. Who
knows where one leaves off and the other begins, or when and how they
overlap.
Ah, well, I have to go to bed so that I can do Step Eight tomorrow
Gail Dapogny in Ann Arbor
Vince Pitelka on tue 26 aug 03
> Ah, well, I have to go to bed so that I can do Step Eight tomorrow
> Gail Dapogny in Ann Arbor
Oh no, Gail, Gail Gail, wait just a minute! There are no shortcuts in this
program! You say you're already to step eight? I'm sorry, but Taylor and I
just published the ANA (Artists Non-Anonymous - thanks Tig for that) 12-step
program a few days ago, and you could not possibly have advanced to step
eight already, unless you somehow deemed yourself worthy of skipping steps
along the way. Believe me, that simply does not work. You cannot
appreciate the full measure of your individual artistic cosmic oneness if
you skip a single step. You cannot proceed to "Step Eight: Make Art in the
Morning" until you have admitted that you are an artist, made art, made more
art, made some more art, kept making art, made even more art, and haven't
stopped making art. And of course, to meet the "Terms for Advancement to
Subsequent Step" specified very clearly in the ANA manifesto, each
successive steps must be accomplished deliberately, clear and distinct, as
an individual endeavor, mutually exclusive of and entirely separate from
each of the adjacent steps. So, although the total concept may seem a bit
vague (you simply cannot expect to fully understand it until you are THERE),
one cannot confuse making art with making more art, because to assume that
they are one in the same is to blatantly ignore the key points in the
manifesto which form the foundation of ANA, and will in fact cause you to
disregard part of the essential progression, denying the possibility of
final self-recognition of artistic autonomy.
So, my suggestion is that you back up, pick up at the level where you
genuinely belong, and start again there. Don't worry. As long as you
complete each step carefully and thoroughly, celebrating its uniqueness,
addressing its specific nature and expectation, you will soon be making art
all night long!
Oh, and I forgot to mention step 13.
Step 13: After loudly proclaming "I am an artist! I live life out loud!
You are an artist! We are all artists!" from a busy streetcorner, it is
possible to elevate oneself to a far higher epiphany of artistic
self-awareness by immediately singing "I Did it My Way" at the top of your
lungs.
Best wishes, and good luck as you advance through the program. Be truthful
to thine self!
- Vince, Grand Poobah, ANA
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Tony Ferguson on wed 27 aug 03
Vince,
I think I see an illustrated T-shirt brewing here. Put me on the list for
one.
Thank you.
Tony Ferguson
On Lake Superior, where the sky meets the Lake
Stoneware, Porcelain, Raku and more
by Coleman, Ferguson, Winchester...
www.aquariusartgallery.com
218-727-6339
315 N. Lake Ave
Apt 312
Duluth, MN 55806
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Pitelka"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2003 7:25 PM
Subject: Re: Artists
> > I warn you though: once committed, I move fast. Step Eight is just
> around
> > the corner.
>
> Gail -
> Yea, well I wanna be there when you get to step 13. Maybe you could save
> that for the Clayart room at NCECA?
>
> We may have to have an official meeting of ANA at NCECA.
> - Vince
>
> Vince Pitelka
> Appalachian Center for Craft
> Tennessee Technological University
> 1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
> Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
> 615/597-5376
> Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
> 615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
> http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Vince Pitelka on wed 27 aug 03
> So, Vince, how do we get sponsors for this 12 step program?
Shula -
Simple, just find potters who want to push their products, emblazon their
advertising on a sandwich board, and wear it when you are out on that street
corner screaming at the top of your lungs. And if you purchase an official
ANA jumpsuit, you can plaster it with embroidered patches advertising all
sorts of products, just like the drivers in the Indy 500.
Glad I was able to help you with this dilemma.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Vince Pitelka on wed 27 aug 03
> I warn you though: once committed, I move fast. Step Eight is just
around
> the corner.
Gail -
Yea, well I wanna be there when you get to step 13. Maybe you could save
that for the Clayart room at NCECA?
We may have to have an official meeting of ANA at NCECA.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Craft
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Office - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 x111, FAX 615/597-6803
http://iweb.tntech.edu/wpitelka/
Janet Kaiser on thu 28 aug 03
Oh, Yes please, Gayle! The whole issue would be a great deal
easier to discuss in German, because at least they have a bone
fide word which describes a craftsperson, who is also an artist:
Kunsthandwerker. Now that is what could be considered a tragic
omission in the English language as she is spoke.
Kunst = Art
Handwerker = Craftsman
So a blacksmith is a plain craftsman when making horse shoes, but
he becomes a art-craftsman when designing and making those
magnificent wrought iron gates for Lord Muck or a weather vane
for the local church...
What we consider a museum for the "decorative arts" is a
Kunsthandwerkmuseum... Now the latter imbibes a lot more
recognition for the craft and skills of the makers in my opinion,
whereas the English puts more emphasis on the (passive) function
of the end product, not the method.
Sincerely
Janet -- almost got the table cleared ready for Rikki's visit at
the weekend...
*** IN REPLY TO THE FOLLOWING MAIL:
>Heh,heh...
>Just be glad we are not debating what to call ourselves
>in German.
*** THE MAIL FROM claybair ENDS HERE ***
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