vince pitelka on sun 4 mar 01
> He suggested that I use masking tape before I dip color number 1. He said
> masking tape won't stick to glaze so I have to do it this way if I mask
it.
> After I dip color number 1, I'd take the tape off and dip color number 2,
> using of course 2 colors that the first will show through the second. I
> told him I was afraid I'd mess up to just free-hand the second color
because
> I'm not very painterly at all. Some could do this, not me.
Lorri -
I think you need to give yourself a lot more credit. You could lay out the
design with pencil lines on a banding wheel, and then paint in the banding
freehand, and it will have a lot more life and energy than if you mask off
the lines. The latter seems a bit of a travesty on a historical recreation
of a Greek vase. Use some sort of stabilizer for your hand, like a wooden
bar supported on several bricks or concrete blocks. Rest your hand against
that bar while you are painting the banding and the details. You can
achieve a great deal of control. I think part of doing a historically
accurate recreation is to use the original methods and materials as much as
possible. No one is expecting you to recreate the black/red terra sigillata
process, but you could certainly paint on the design work and details in
iron-red and black slips and then use a satin gloss clear glaze overall.
Good luck, and maybe when you finish the piece we can all see an image of it
on someone's website.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Cindy Strnad on sun 4 mar 01
Hi, Lorri.
Well, if you mess up the first time, you can just sponge the whole thing off
and start again. Others have suggested drafting tape, and that does sound
like a good option for you. Plain masking tape will let the glaze in under
the edges. (I can personally attest to this.) It may work if you're spraying
the glazes, but it sure is frustrating for dipping.
If you decide to try the on-wheel banding method Joyce suggested, you'll
want to alter your glaze to make it more brushable. I don't do a lot of
brushwork, but I've found the addition of lots of glycerin and a little bit
of bentonite to be a help.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
Lorri on sun 4 mar 01
I am working on a project that I could use some ideas on. I am doing a
historical reproduction for my ceramics class. The piece I chose was a
Greek amphora in the geometric era. I was discussing how to get the banding
on the piece with my instructor and I told him I was afraid I'd mess up to
just free-hand the second color because I'm not very painterly at all. Some
could do this, not me.
He suggested that I use masking tape before I dip color number 1. He said
masking tape won't stick to glaze so I have to do it this way if I mask it.
After I dip color number 1, I'd take the tape off and dip color number 2,
using of course 2 colors that the first will show through the second. I
told him I was afraid I'd mess up to just free-hand the second color because
I'm not very painterly at all. Some could do this, not me.
I brought the bisqued pot home to do the masking so I had more time to mess
with it. There was no problem masking the neck where the amphora was
straight. Even did nice geometric designs with the masking tape. When I
got to the round part, just as my husband (Steve) had told me it wouldn't
work, the masking tape was just too straight to use where the curves are.
Steve suggested I try rubber bands. Well, the rubber bands just won't stay
in place. I'll just get them right where I want them and make them even and
they'll snap back up to the straight part of the neck. My only other
thought is to use latex resist. My concern with this is in getting the
bands the same width all the way around the diameter with a paint brush and
having it be even. I am a bit puzzled how to go about banding the round
part and would certainly appreciate any suggestions.
My oh my did those Greeks have a better system than I can come up with.
Their pots are amazing and with all the tools I have, I am struggling to
emulate what they did back in 850 BC.
Thanks in advance,
Lorri
Lenexa, KS
Cindy Strnad on sun 4 mar 01
Lorri,
This won't help you with your current project, but here's my take on the
subject of getting geometrically perfect decoration onto a pot: If it's not
you, don't do it. Be who you are.
I'm a good sketcher, and if I painted much, I'd be a good painter. But I
would never in my wildest dreams be capable of such straight-line geometric
perfection as I've marveled at in others.
Now I've seen people do this. You'd think they'd done the work with a
machine, it's so perfect, and they didn't measure with anything but their
fingertips and their eyes. This ability is in their blood, in their genetic
structure. You could learn it, too, if you took the trouble, but no matter
how good you became, you'd only be a second-best copy of someone else.
I do not even attempt to get my carving geometrically perfect. It's full of
organic, imperfect, wonderfully un-straight lines and small miscalculations
which I have ad-libbed into a coherent (I hope) design. My work doesn't even
attempt a semblance of technical perfection. To do so would make it look
sloppy. As it is, it's a perfect example of its own style.
So, girl, is it too late to change your tack? Can you make Lorri's
interpretation of a historic amphora? Would that be such a bad thing? If
you're not hemmed in, I would definitely consider adding my own twist to
this style. Because, even with masking tape, I guarantee you I would never
get it perfect.
BTW, if you do decide to go with the straight lines and the masking tape, I
recommend spraying the glazes rather than dipping.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
Estrellita Ammirati on sun 4 mar 01
Lorri:
Having done "sewing" for many years I think you could
probably notch (make a v cut) where the tape doesn't
lie flat then use small pieces of masking tape to
cover the v cut outs. I never tried it but in my
minds eye I think it would work. When I used to sew
and had a curved section I had to make these "notches"
so I imagine it must be the same concept for a curved
neck on the pot.
Good luck.
Estrellita
--- Lorri wrote:
> I am working on a project that I could use some
> ideas on. I am doing a
> historical reproduction for my ceramics class. The
> piece I chose was a
> Greek amphora in the geometric era. I was
> discussing how to get the banding
> on the piece with my instructor and I told him I was
> afraid I'd mess up to
> just free-hand the second color because I'm not very
> painterly at all. Some
> could do this, not me.
> He suggested that I use masking tape before I dip
> color number 1. He said
> masking tape won't stick to glaze so I have to do it
> this way if I mask it.
> After I dip color number 1, I'd take the tape off
> and dip color number 2,
> using of course 2 colors that the first will show
> through the second. I
> told him I was afraid I'd mess up to just free-hand
> the second color because
> I'm not very painterly at all. Some could do this,
> not me.
>
> I brought the bisqued pot home to do the masking so
> I had more time to mess
> with it. There was no problem masking the neck
> where the amphora was
> straight. Even did nice geometric designs with the
> masking tape. When I
> got to the round part, just as my husband (Steve)
> had told me it wouldn't
> work, the masking tape was just too straight to use
> where the curves are.
> Steve suggested I try rubber bands. Well, the
> rubber bands just won't stay
> in place. I'll just get them right where I want
> them and make them even and
> they'll snap back up to the straight part of the
> neck. My only other
> thought is to use latex resist. My concern with
> this is in getting the
> bands the same width all the way around the diameter
> with a paint brush and
> having it be even. I am a bit puzzled how to go
> about banding the round
> part and would certainly appreciate any suggestions.
>
> My oh my did those Greeks have a better system than
> I can come up with.
> Their pots are amazing and with all the tools I
> have, I am struggling to
> emulate what they did back in 850 BC.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Lorri
> Lenexa, KS
>
>
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Craig Martell on sun 4 mar 01
Hi Lorri:
I used to do a lot of tape resist and nearly went balmy messing with it.
For round shapes, two kinds of tape worked well for me. Graphic designers
tape which can be purchased at art supply places, and automobile pin stripe
tape that you can get at auto parts stores and also Variety stores that
have an auto parts dept. You can get both tapes in various widths and they
will bend around forms nicely. When applying, you have to hold the end
down while you stretch and stick the tape to the form. This takes a little
practice but it's not a steep learning curve.
Before I forget, the pin stripe tape is sometimes a lot less expensive than
the Graphic Designers tape.
regards, Craig Martell in Oregon
Snail Scott on sun 4 mar 01
At 07:19 AM 3/4/01 -0800, you wrote:
>I brought the bisqued pot home to do the masking so I had more time to mess
>with it. There was no problem masking the neck where the amphora was
>straight. Even did nice geometric designs with the masking tape.
the masking tape was just too straight to use where the curves are.
>Steve suggested I try rubber bands. Well, the rubber bands just won't stay
>in place...
>Lorri
>Lenexa, KS
For big lines, try electrical tape (the black plastic tape).
It's stretchy and sticky and goes around curves well. For
small lines, try Chartpak brand 'Formaline' tape (or one of
its competitors). It is sold in drafting-supply shops. It
comes in many narrow widths, and also handles curves well.
Not super-cheap, but very handy.
-Snail
R12396@AOL.COM on sun 4 mar 01
Lorri,
Easy way is to use thin (different sizes) roll of lettering tape of
(pin-stripping), different colors elastic enough to go around curves and
dips. Press and smooth with care (oils and smudges or knocking off glazes
covering) maybe follow a light guide line. Can get very fancy, if you put the
time and effort. Good for some students needing a hard edge in slips,
under-glazes, and stable glazes. Try it!...Richard Ramirez -("The Clay
Stalker")
Lorri on sun 4 mar 01
Cindy,
You're right, doing a Greek Pot may not be me. But at the same time, I see
merit in this assignment. Am sure my instructor wants us to be technically
proficient enough that even though something may not be my style (as only my
style is), he wants us to know how it is done. We are allowed to choose any
historical piece that strikes us (and one that we can find information
enough to also do an oral presentation on). Of course, because of that I
chose one that I am particularly fond of, so it is a bit more my style than
the others I could have chosen as I was more drawn to it than all of the
others in the many, many books I poured over trying to choose just one. It
also stretches us to go farther than we may in allowing ourselves to get in
our rut. The piece I created from the Greek style so far I am quite pleased
with. Looks like the xeroxed pot from the Greek book I took it from. And
if the hardest part is taking the time to get the geometric designs, I don't
mind taking the time as I am learning a new technique. Even though I am not
painterly, I am patient. I will spend a long time trying to make something
look perfect. Just hoping there is a way that I don't have to make it
perfect the first time, that if I screw it up, I can "undo" what I've done
and not be stuck with it permanently.
Lorri Paustian
Lenexa, KS
WHew536674@CS.COM on sun 4 mar 01
Lorri,
Masking tape is a pain on a curved surface, you are right about that. The
best way that I have found is to tare it in smaller sections and line up the
top of the tape. Then I use a spray gun or air brush. Another possibility
is to center the pot on the wheel, and dip the brush into the underglaze or
slip and hold the brush steady and you should end up where you started after
one rotation. You could practice on some other piece first to see how it
works for you.
Joyce A
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