Janet Kaiser on tue 6 mar 01
Well, is it? I know many of you use sawdust for
various things like firing, quenching, smoking,
texturing, etc. but what about all the "nasties"
the wood was treated with before it was
processed? Do you know it is definitely
untreated wood dust and shavings your are using?
I just wondered. Seems to me some of the fumes
could be just as dangerous or even more noxious
or toxic than wax and other more natural
materials.
Do you just sort of take for granted that
sawdust is a "natural" product and is not going
to contain anything like formaldehyde, benzenes,
polywhatsits, etc. etc. or do you actively take
precautions or preventative measures, like only
buying or acquiring sawdust from primary lumber
sources?
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
> Try saw dust. Available free in most lumber
yards. I would not try to
> incorporate anything made of plastic, because
of the possible toxic fumes
> during burn out.
Anji Henderson on sun 11 mar 01
Excellent point Janet.... I am sorry list I lacked...
Last summer, I procured saw dust from HomeDepot, and
they had two machines.. One was for regular wood and
the other had filters and vaccumes and stuff --it was
for the pressure treated wood... I believe they said
it contained arsenic?? Anyway if it wasn't arsenic
then it was something that equated in my mind to be of
the same level of toxicity.. They also said that they
were not allowed to open the machine because that saw
dust was dangerous and a special company removed it
from the site... I guess I just assumed that all
places would do this, but now that I use both brain
cells to think............ I suppose that even the
regular wood saw is not 100% safe-- heck you have the
trainee that was left while the trainer goes potty....
I could think up a million -- just give me a cup o'
coffee and I'll be on a roll...Thanks Janet and sorry
again I lacked list....
Anji
--- Janet Kaiser wrote:> Well, is it? I know many of
you use sawdustfor
> various things like firing, quenching,smoking,
> texturing, etc. but what about all the"nasties"
> the wood was treated with before it was
> processed? Do you know it is definitely
> untreated wood dust and shavings you areusing?
__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
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Richard Jeffery on sun 11 mar 01
just to add to the level of anxiety... we probably all know, or suspect that
some exotic timbers like Kingwood and Paduak contain toxic substances or
irritants - it may be a surprise that of all the European native hardwoods,
beech dust is a know carcinogen, although the timber is held to be safe even
for food use.
Of course, whether any of this has any relevance to what is given off on
burning, I don't know... I work in wood and clay, I use my sawdust for
raku - seems perverse not to. I wear a filter, but I have a beard. Wood is
mainly hardwood, but I use some MDF for pattern and jig making. So does
everyone else. There is no way you can separate saw dust from different
timbers into different sacks if you work at a craft level - it might be
feasible for major factory production runs. So - moral is, assume any
sawdust you get from a furniture shop, wood turner or joiner contains MDF,
and take whatever precautions you can....
Richard
Bournemouth UK
www.TheEleventhHour.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Anji Henderson
Sent: 11 March 2001 17:02
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Is your sawdust safe?
Excellent point Janet.... I am sorry list I lacked...
Last summer, I procured saw dust from HomeDepot, and
they had two machines.. One was for regular wood and
the other had filters and vaccumes and stuff --it was
for the pressure treated wood... I believe they said
it contained arsenic?? Anyway if it wasn't arsenic
then it was something that equated in my mind to be of
the same level of toxicity.. They also said that they
were not allowed to open the machine because that saw
dust was dangerous and a special company removed it
from the site... I guess I just assumed that all
places would do this, but now that I use both brain
cells to think............ I suppose that even the
regular wood saw is not 100% safe-- heck you have the
trainee that was left while the trainer goes potty....
I could think up a million -- just give me a cup o'
coffee and I'll be on a roll...Thanks Janet and sorry
again I lacked list....
Anji
--- Janet Kaiser wrote:> Well, is it? I know many of
you use sawdustfor
> various things like firing, quenching,smoking,
> texturing, etc. but what about all the"nasties"
> the wood was treated with before it was
> processed? Do you know it is definitely
> untreated wood dust and shavings you areusing?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
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Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Gary Cox on sun 11 mar 01
We use sawdust for our horses and my daughter is working with it every day for
half an hour.
You guys are scaring me
Richard Jeffery wrote:
> just to add to the level of anxiety... we probably all know, or suspect that
> some exotic timbers like Kingwood and Paduak contain toxic substances or
> irritants - it may be a surprise that of all the European native hardwoods,
> beech dust is a know carcinogen, although the timber is held to be safe even
> for food use.
>
> Of course, whether any of this has any relevance to what is given off on
> burning, I don't know... I work in wood and clay, I use my sawdust for
> raku - seems perverse not to. I wear a filter, but I have a beard. Wood is
> mainly hardwood, but I use some MDF for pattern and jig making. So does
> everyone else. There is no way you can separate saw dust from different
> timbers into different sacks if you work at a craft level - it might be
> feasible for major factory production runs. So - moral is, assume any
> sawdust you get from a furniture shop, wood turner or joiner contains MDF,
> and take whatever precautions you can....
>
> Richard
> Bournemouth UK
> www.TheEleventhHour.co.uk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of Anji Henderson
> Sent: 11 March 2001 17:02
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Is your sawdust safe?
>
> Excellent point Janet.... I am sorry list I lacked...
> Last summer, I procured saw dust from HomeDepot, and
> they had two machines.. One was for regular wood and
> the other had filters and vaccumes and stuff --it was
> for the pressure treated wood... I believe they said
> it contained arsenic?? Anyway if it wasn't arsenic
> then it was something that equated in my mind to be of
> the same level of toxicity.. They also said that they
> were not allowed to open the machine because that saw
> dust was dangerous and a special company removed it
> from the site... I guess I just assumed that all
> places would do this, but now that I use both brain
> cells to think............ I suppose that even the
> regular wood saw is not 100% safe-- heck you have the
> trainee that was left while the trainer goes potty....
> I could think up a million -- just give me a cup o'
> coffee and I'll be on a roll...Thanks Janet and sorry
> again I lacked list....
>
> Anji
>
> --- Janet Kaiser wrote:> Well, is it? I know many of
> you use sawdustfor
> > various things like firing, quenching,smoking,
> > texturing, etc. but what about all the"nasties"
> > the wood was treated with before it was
> > processed? Do you know it is definitely
> > untreated wood dust and shavings you areusing?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Richard Jeffery on mon 12 mar 01
I'm just saying "know the risk", but then keep it in perspective. This is
more of a problem for woodworkers than potters.
Richard
Bournemouth UK
www.TheEleventhHour.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Gary Cox
Sent: 12 March 2001 00:29
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Is your sawdust safe?
We use sawdust for our horses and my daughter is working with it every day
for
half an hour.
You guys are scaring me
Richard Jeffery wrote:
> just to add to the level of anxiety... we probably all know, or suspect
that
> some exotic timbers like Kingwood and Paduak contain toxic substances or
> irritants - it may be a surprise that of all the European native
hardwoods,
> beech dust is a know carcinogen, although the timber is held to be safe
even
> for food use.
>
> Of course, whether any of this has any relevance to what is given off on
> burning, I don't know... I work in wood and clay, I use my sawdust for
> raku - seems perverse not to. I wear a filter, but I have a beard. Wood
is
> mainly hardwood, but I use some MDF for pattern and jig making. So does
> everyone else. There is no way you can separate saw dust from different
> timbers into different sacks if you work at a craft level - it might be
> feasible for major factory production runs. So - moral is, assume any
> sawdust you get from a furniture shop, wood turner or joiner contains MDF,
> and take whatever precautions you can....
>
> Richard
> Bournemouth UK
> www.TheEleventhHour.co.uk
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
> Behalf Of Anji Henderson
> Sent: 11 March 2001 17:02
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: Is your sawdust safe?
>
> Excellent point Janet.... I am sorry list I lacked...
> Last summer, I procured saw dust from HomeDepot, and
> they had two machines.. One was for regular wood and
> the other had filters and vaccumes and stuff --it was
> for the pressure treated wood... I believe they said
> it contained arsenic?? Anyway if it wasn't arsenic
> then it was something that equated in my mind to be of
> the same level of toxicity.. They also said that they
> were not allowed to open the machine because that saw
> dust was dangerous and a special company removed it
> from the site... I guess I just assumed that all
> places would do this, but now that I use both brain
> cells to think............ I suppose that even the
> regular wood saw is not 100% safe-- heck you have the
> trainee that was left while the trainer goes potty....
> I could think up a million -- just give me a cup o'
> coffee and I'll be on a roll...Thanks Janet and sorry
> again I lacked list....
>
> Anji
>
> --- Janet Kaiser wrote:> Well, is it? I know many of
> you use sawdustfor
> > various things like firing, quenching,smoking,
> > texturing, etc. but what about all the"nasties"
> > the wood was treated with before it was
> > processed? Do you know it is definitely
> > untreated wood dust and shavings you areusing?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices.
> http://auctions.yahoo.com/
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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Snail Scott on mon 12 mar 01
Even regular wood dust can be an allergen for some
people; Philippine mahogany is especially bad, but
it's up to you to know your own level of sensitivity.
Pressure-treated wood...now that's a whole 'nother
ball game. Nasty stuff. If you are using someone else's
sawdust, ask if they've cut any pressure-treated stock.
I doubt that any individual would be unaware whether
they were using pressure-treated wood; it's hard to work
with and expensive - not likely it would just get used
inadvertently. Those big lumberyards, though, cut almost
everything, and many don't have the separate system
that Anji mentioned, so be sure to check. (By the way,
most, though not all, treated lumber is green. You may
not be certain, if it's normal-colored, but beware the
green sawdust!)
Also, the epoxy resins from plywood, waferboard, and
MDF are not nice, either. Know thy source!
-Snail
At 09:01 AM 3/11/01 -0800, you wrote:
One was for regular wood and
>the other had filters and vaccumes and stuff --it was
>for the pressure treated wood...
>
>Anji
>
>--- Janet Kaiser wrote:> Well, is it? I know many of
> but what about all the"nasties"
>> the wood was treated with before it was
>> processed? Do you know it is definitely
>> untreated wood dust and shavings you areusing?
>
Roger Korn on tue 13 mar 01
Snail wrote:
....Also, the epoxy resins from plywood, waferboard, and
MDF are not nice, either. Know thy source!
-Snail
Hi Snail,
These products don't use epoxy resins: it's worse that that -
urea/formaldehyde resin is the binder of choice for the manufacturers.
I've become sensitized to the dust and smoke of these materials after 50
years as a part time/full time woodworker and a kiln builder/tender
(read PYROMANIAC). A bit more use of effective masks and other
precautions 40 years ago would have left me far better off today.
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
SterlingDesign@AOL.COM on tue 13 mar 01
okay sawdust and wood shavings,
Most Pressure treated wood sold is treated with a chemical compound called
CCA , (copper cromated Arsinate), it contains both chromium and arsenic, the
wood after it is milled is soaked in a solution of this compound and it is
absorbed into the pores. This allows it to resist rotting from contact with
moisture.
When using pressure treated wood it should not be used in a barn where an
animal may chew on it, it should not be burned, any waste material should be
disposed of properly. Where gloves and dust masks when working with it.
They have been doing studies to see if acid rain will cause these compounds
to leach out of the wood and contaminate surrounding soils, so far results
have been inconclusive, Monona may be able to address this better.
There are several new pressure treated products out one is ACQ which contain
no arsenic or chromium. It is a fairly new product and is not used very
widely yet.
Saw dust used for most barns comes directly from the mill (you should be able
to find out from your supplier where yours comes from) Saw dust and shavings
for animal use should be strictly softwood as there are several hardwood
species which contain chemical compounds that are toxic to animals. This
wood comes out of the milling process prior to any chemical treatment being
applied.
Karen Deasy, RA
Sterling Design
Cabot, Vermont
Snail Scott on tue 13 mar 01
Roger-
Thanks for the heads-up on the actual composition of
binder materials! I'm not terribly sensitive to these
(yet!), but I have become sensitized to other materials
through prolonged exposure, often in spite of pretty good
adherence to safety measures. Welding fumes are one, and
patina chemicals are another. I can tell by my reaction
when my respirator filters need replacing. I'd rather I
still needed the test kit, though!
-Snail
At 06:02 AM 3/13/01 -0800, you wrote:
>Snail wrote:
>...Also, the epoxy resins from plywood, waferboard, and
>MDF are not nice, either. Know thy source!
> -Snail
>
>Hi Snail,
>
>These products don't use epoxy resins: it's worse that that -
>urea/formaldehyde resin is the binder of choice for the manufacturers.
>I've become sensitized to the dust and smoke of these materials after 50
>years as a part time/full time woodworker and a kiln builder/tender
>(read PYROMANIAC). A bit more use of effective masks and other
>precautions 40 years ago would have left me far better off today.
>
>Roger Korn
Isao & Don on wed 14 mar 01
At 06:02 3/13/01 -0800, you wrote:
>Snail wrote:
>...Also, the epoxy resins from plywood, waferboard, and
>MDF are not nice, either. Know thy source!
> -Snail
>
>Hi Snail,
>
>These products don't use epoxy resins: it's worse that that -
>urea/formaldehyde resin is the binder of choice for the manufacturers.
>I've become sensitized to the dust and smoke of these materials after 50
>years as a part time/full time woodworker and a kiln builder/tender
>(read PYROMANIAC). A bit more use of effective masks and other
>precautions 40 years ago would have left me far better off today.
>
>Roger Korn I would add that the practice of using scrap pallet
wood
is often dangerous becuase of the materials shipped
on the pallets. Beyond that, Cedar is a stinky,oily wood when burned and
many persons develop a sensitivity to the oils and the soot. Don
>McKay Creek Ceramics
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Don & Isao Sanami Morrill
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