CINDI ANDERSON on tue 6 mar 01
The thing that helped me the most was once the cylinder is open, collar it in before you start to pull up. Then you get started with an inward position. Then the first thing you do, before you start any normal pulling is a pinch. To pinch you put your thumb on the outside and fingers on the inside (at the very bottom. Pinch together and pull up while you push hard on the outside of the cylinder with your sponge. That goes a long way to getting a lot of clay up.
When I'm throwing really tall I stand up. I think I read that on ClayArt.
Cindi
Carrie or Peter Jacobson on tue 6 mar 01
In the discussions of "loose" pots and of teaching, a bunch of throwing tips
have emerged. Very very helpful!
What other tips do you folks have?
I have one: Pull toward your nose. That is, if you a pulling a cylinder,
make sure your nose is over the center of the cylinder. If you are pulling a
bowl, make sure your nose is not over the center, but is outside the center,
where the rim of the bowl will be. This apparently puts you in the right
physical position, or at least it works for me.
That's the one thing I seem to know that other people don't.
I bet you all know stuff the rest of us don't.
Carrie Jacobson
Bolster's Mills, Maine
Blizzarding again
p.s., what is the temperature going to be like in Charlotte? 70s? 50s?
Chris Schafale on tue 6 mar 01
When I'm teaching beginners, and all their cylinders end up as
bowls, I've found it useful to tell them to pull toward their left
shoulder. This counteracts what seems to be the natural tendency
to pull out to the right.
Chris
Carrie wrote:
> In the discussions of "loose" pots and of teaching, a bunch of throwing tips
> have emerged. Very very helpful!
>
> What other tips do you folks have?
>
Light One Candle Pottery
Fuquay-Varina, North Carolina, USA
(south of Raleigh)
candle@intrex.net
http://www.lightonecandle.com
artimater on tue 6 mar 01
Haven't seen this one....I always keep my tool (hands, ribs, etc.) =
moving around the circumference of the work while they are in =
contact.....some times one way sometimes the other.....can't say why but =
that seems to help me......also when you come to bubbles or lumps a =
change of speed with often run right over them with out much =
consequence....Of course it doesn't work if you are using recycled clay =
and the lump is half a cheap sponge someone no longer needed
artimator
artimator@earthlink.net=20
http://www.geocities.com/artimator/index.html=20
http://home.earthlink.net/~artimator/index.html
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/texasceramics
"I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
jean mitton on sun 2 sep 01
Dear Clayarters,
=20
Recently we had the priviledge to attend a free workshop =
curtesy of our local technicon. It was given by Janet Mansfield and =
Andrew Walford. Janet is the well known Australian Potter and publisher =
of ceramic magazines and Andrew is one of our Master potters.
I would like to share with you one of Janets methods of making =
large open ended cylinder shapes which form her three part pots. I =
found this unique, but you may be familiar with this method.
Janet starts on a bat with a thick pancake of clay, the overall =
diameter of which is the approx. size of the desired cylinder. In the =
centre to the bat face she plunges a hole big enough for her hand. Then =
she lifts the clay from the bat and centre, forcing it upwards and =
outwards to form, first a conical shape and then eventually a cylinder.
I have never seen this done before but it seems a very efficient way =
of making large bottomless cylinders, as that *non existent centrifugal =
Force* must assist in this technique.
=20
Regards Ron Mitton
iandol on mon 3 sep 01
Dear Ron Mitton,
You describe Janet's work as follows;
<diameter of which is the approx. size of the desired cylinder. In the =
centre to the bat face she plunges a hole big enough for her hand. Then =
she lifts the clay from the bat and centre, forcing it upwards and =
outwards to form, first a conical shape and then eventually a =
cylinder.>>
I have a friend, Roger Klienig, who does something similar to this for =
all of his pots. In centring, he spreads out the clay to the edge of the =
bat. Then after opening the clay he gradually forces the clay from the =
outside to the centre, gaining height at each draught until he has =
created the preform of the pot he is about to create.
When you try it, perhaps you will let us know if the collar of clay =
starts to ripple as you collar it inwards from its conical form to the =
cylindrical shape.
By the way, I think I am well on the way to writing the abstract =
equation for relating height and diameter thrown to the mass of clay =
used.
All the best,
Ivor Lewis, Redhill, South Australia
Jennifer F Boyer on mon 18 aug 03
I've been throwing since 1971. Recently I watched myself throw
and was surprised how my hands have evolved their own way of
doing things without my knowledge!
For you budding throwers, here are some tips:
I no longer sink my 2 thumbs into the clay to start a hole.After
centering I sink the hole with my first four fingers of my left
hand, while my thumb remains on the outside. It is a
gripping/grabbing motion with my left hand at 6 o'clock. My
right hand is pressing on the top of the wall...
I then raise the walls continuing this gripping motion. I only
switch to the traditional one-hand-in-one-hand-out position when
I can no longer reach the bottom of the pot using the gripping
motion. During the gripping motion(w/ left hand), the top of the
pot wall is in contact with my right hand during the pull up,
preventing any wobbling from starting.
When I switch to the one-hand-in-one-hand-out position, I always
try to have some part of my hand pressing down on the top of the
pot wall, keeping the wobbles at bay. I almost never raise the
wall up without exerting pressure on top of the wall.
Just fyi...
Jennifer, wondering if this works well for me cuz I'm a lefty,
as all the best people are! ;-)
--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery Montpelier VT USA
http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/
Never pass on an email warning without checking out these sites
for web hoaxes and junk:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/
http://snopes.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Susan Setley on mon 18 aug 03
In a message dated 8/18/03 2:40:19 PM, jboyer@ADELPHIA.NET writes:
<<
Just fyi...
Jennifer, wondering if this works well for me cuz I'm a lefty,
as all the best people are! ;-) >>
I haven't been throwing nearly as long as you but I do the same things. I
throw like 'righty' though even though I'm left-handed (that makes for
occasional interesting problems...)
Elizabeth Herod on mon 18 aug 03
Jennifer--
Thank you for the throwing tips for newbies. That is actually the way
Norifumi opened at the workshop last week.
I=B9m about to go downstairs and try it out.
Beth
>>For you budding throwers, here are some tips:
I no longer sink my 2 thumbs into the clay to start a hole.After
centering I sink the hole with my first four fingers of my left
hand, while my thumb remains on the outside. It is a
gripping/grabbing motion with my left hand at 6 o'clock. My
right hand is pressing on the top of the wall...
I then raise the walls continuing this gripping motion. I only
switch to the traditional one-hand-in-one-hand-out position when
I can no longer reach the bottom of the pot using the gripping
motion. During the gripping motion(w/ left hand), the top of the
pot wall is in contact with my right hand during the pull up,
preventing any wobbling from starting.
When I switch to the one-hand-in-one-hand-out position, I always
try to have some part of my hand pressing down on the top of the
pot wall, keeping the wobbles at bay. I almost never raise the
wall up without exerting pressure on top of the wall.
Just fyi...
Jennifer, wondering if this works well for me cuz I'm a lefty,
as all the best people are! ;-)<<
Susan Setley on mon 18 aug 03
In a message dated 8/18/03 6:35:47 PM, hotnsticky@OZEMAIL.COM.AU writes:
<< Hi Jennifer,
I'm a left hander too, and that is almost the exact technique that I
found my hands doing of their own accord one day.
A sort of left handed claw grip.
Isn't it amazing how, without logic, our bodies find the most efficient
and comfortable way.
best wishes
Steve Harrison >>
I took a class once where the teacher insisted there was only one "right" way
to do pulls. The approach we have discussed here was not it. I think it's
quick and efficient, and it is also less likely that you will throw your clay out
of center doing it. By the time you have moved on to a different way of
drawing the clay up, the clay has a flatter base (ususally) and the walls are
thinner. It's more likely that you will avoid causing the piece to go off-center
(it's still possible to do, of course.)
claybair on mon 18 aug 03
Yuck, Yuck,
I do the same thing but being ambidextrous
I tend slide in & out of several different techniques.
So many factors influence the way I throw.....
clay body, amount of clay, wheel, tiredness...
even music or the weather.
There is no one way and that is what is so
fabulous about working in clay. We always
push the limits, rules and find (or rediscover)
new/old ways.
Gayle Bair
Bainbridge Island, WA
http://claybair.com
-----Original Message-----
I'm a left hander too, and that is almost the exact technique that I
found my hands doing of their own accord one day.
A sort of left handed claw grip.
Isn't it amazing how, without logic, our bodies find the most efficient
and comfortable way.
best wishes
Steve Harrison
> I've been throwing since 1971. Recently I watched myself throw
> and was surprised how my hands have evolved their own way of
> doing things without my knowledge!
>
David Hendley on mon 18 aug 03
This is how my one-armed potter friend John Logan threw pots.
He was a REAL lefty!
Of course, this one-handed technique only works on pots shorter than
your thumb. He switched to coil-and-throw at the point that you
switch to using both hands.
David Hendley
david@farmpots.com
http://www.farmpots.com
----- Original Message -----
> I no longer sink my 2 thumbs into the clay to start a hole.After
> centering I sink the hole with my first four fingers of my left
> hand, while my thumb remains on the outside. It is a
> gripping/grabbing motion with my left hand at 6 o'clock. My
> right hand is pressing on the top of the wall...
>
> I then raise the walls continuing this gripping motion. I only
> switch to the traditional one-hand-in-one-hand-out position when
> I can no longer reach the bottom of the pot using the gripping
> motion.
Geoffrey Gaskell on tue 19 aug 03
I've made the discovery that from an inconsistency of grip or hand
positioning a certain measure of pleasing consistency can result.
Improvisation and simply going with the flow also generates the necessary
degree of relaxation to compliment the firmness that sets boundaries for a
rebellious piece of clay.
A certain amount of practice on the driving range or practice fairway of the
local golf club can also do wonders for one's work at the wheel (and vice
versa). Just as an apparently effortless swing of the club will always drive
the ball much further than any tense & furious attempts through brute force,
so too will apparently effortless gestures of the hands & fingers conjure
some of the most remarkable results at the wheel.
As for throwing very large lumps of clay, most illustrated books seem to
suggest that big boned individuals with particularly hairy arms, usually
living in remote regions with a hot & dry climate, are more likely to make
the attempt.
Geoffrey Gaskell
Jennifer F Boyer on tue 19 aug 03
Yes, amazing. Are there right handed folks out there doing this
too: opening the hole and doing the first pulls up with only the
left hand gripping the clay at 6 o'clock? The right hand pushes
on the top of the wall....
steve harrison wrote:
> Hi Jennifer,
> I'm a left hander too, and that is almost the exact technique that I
> found my hands doing of their own accord one day.
> A sort of left handed claw grip.
> Isn't it amazing how, without logic, our bodies find the most efficient
> and comfortable way.
> best wishes
> Steve Harrison
>
>
>
>>I've been throwing since 1971. Recently I watched myself throw
>>and was surprised how my hands have evolved their own way of
>>doing things without my knowledge!
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
>
--
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery Montpelier VT USA
http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/
Never pass on an email warning without checking out these sites
for web hoaxes and junk:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/
http://snopes.com
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Kathie Wheater on tue 19 aug 03
Hi Jennifer the lefty,
I do the exact same method. I throw to counterclockwise
wheel rotation. I originally started thowing left (or the right way if
you prescribe to the japenese method). It was more comfortable.
I'm primarily right handed and ended up throwing right after
refining my technique. We are taught a standard method as
a baseline from which we can develop. Ultimately your hands
and mind are your own and only you know how best to use them.
That's what creativity is all about.
That's just my opinion as an observer.
Kathie the quadradexterous potter
Lois Ruben Aronow on tue 19 aug 03
This left-handed thread seems to come up pretty regularly, so i'll be brief.
I'm left handed - very!! Both in coordination and strength. My first
teacher tried to teach me to throw counter-clockwise, but I couldn't do it, so
I figured out how to do it clockwise. I've had teachers tell me they can't
teach me (ok - no teacher bashing), BUT....
I tell both teachers who I am working with and students I demo to to explain
technique using the phrases "inside" and "outside" hand. Works like a charm.
Teachers can explain to me, and students can understand when they return to
their own wheel.
and by the way - anyone who tells a lefty to find a japanese teacher is ill-
informed. Japanses potters do indeed throw clockwise, but user a traditional
"right-handed" technique (left hand inside; right outside).
My motto: do what works for you.
Carl Finch on tue 19 aug 03
At 11:14 AM 8/19/03 -0400, Lois Ruben Aronow wrote:
>Japanses potters do indeed throw clockwise, but user a traditional
>"right-handed" technique (left hand inside; right outside).
Does that mean they work on the right side of the pot with the clay coming
INTO their finger tips? Sounds kinda tricky.
Or on the left side, with wrists crossed--somehow sounds worse!
--Carl
steve harrison on tue 19 aug 03
Hi Jennifer,
I'm a left hander too, and that is almost the exact technique that I
found my hands doing of their own accord one day.
A sort of left handed claw grip.
Isn't it amazing how, without logic, our bodies find the most efficient
and comfortable way.
best wishes
Steve Harrison
> I've been throwing since 1971. Recently I watched myself throw
> and was surprised how my hands have evolved their own way of
> doing things without my knowledge!
>
Phil Smith on wed 20 aug 03
When I first started potting I read somewhere that a skillfull thrower
centers, opens, throws bottom, in one fairly seamless fluid motion.
Of course I wanted to be a skillfull thrower so I was not content until I
could produce a centered, opened form in this manner. Being self taught I
have come up with a fairly bizzare looking technique. When folks watch they
say "Ya know your not supposed to be able to do that". That's the beauty of
the hand, eye, nerves, brain, muscles all working together. The techniques
can be as individual as the thrower. I wouldn't try to teach my method to
someone else because I don't think I could accurately put into words what
is really going on between brain, nerves, muscles. I took what I read in
books as an absolute. eg. "wall of pot has to look like this top to bottom".
I was discontent until my pot had a wall like that of the diagram.
This methodolgy was very frustrating but enabled me to progress.
Made many a screwed up cylinder.
But now folks say "Wow! how do you make your pots so light, so large".
I admit the discipline I impose on myself to master a step is not very fun
in the learning stages but sure pays off in the end.
I read dianne's post with a bit of sympathy and a grin because we have all
been fit to be tied at times.
Phil...
steve harrison on wed 20 aug 03
Hi Kathie,
Being a quadradexterous potter, does that mean that you can throw with
your feet as well?
Steve Harrison
>
> That's what creativity is all about.
> That's just my opinion as an observer.
> Kathie the quadradexterous potter
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
Ms Diana J Primiterra on wed 20 aug 03
Thanks for the info Phil. I guess I am a little
confused since I have had three different teachers
during my throwing classes. They all throw very
differently and it does confuse things a little bit.
I guess I need to practice practice and then practice
some more...
Diana
--- Phil Smith wrote:
> When I first started potting I read somewhere that a
> skillfull thrower
> centers, opens, throws bottom, in one fairly
> seamless fluid motion.
> Of course I wanted to be a skillfull thrower so I
> was not content until I
> could produce a centered, opened form in this
> manner. Being self taught I
> have come up with a fairly bizzare looking
> technique. When folks watch they
> say "Ya know your not supposed to be able to do
> that". That's the beauty of
> the hand, eye, nerves, brain, muscles all working
> together. The techniques
> can be as individual as the thrower. I wouldn't try
> to teach my method to
> someone else because I don't think I could
> accurately put into words what
> is really going on between brain, nerves, muscles. I
> took what I read in
> books as an absolute. eg. "wall of pot has to look
> like this top to bottom".
> I was discontent until my pot had a wall like that
> of the diagram.
> This methodolgy was very frustrating but enabled me
> to progress.
> Made many a screwed up cylinder.
> But now folks say "Wow! how do you make your pots so
> light, so large".
> I admit the discipline I impose on myself to master
> a step is not very fun
> in the learning stages but sure pays off in the end.
> I read dianne's post with a bit of sympathy and a
> grin because we have all
> been fit to be tied at times.
>
> Phil...
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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