artimater on mon 12 mar 01
I have nothing against production potters...If the works are done =
in good taste they can be very satisfying to own....I own about 10000 =
pieces of production work....Mainly Frankoma, Camark, Niloak, Weller, =
Rookwood, Van Briggle, Hammet and many unknowns.....Most of it is a =
stretch to call fine art....Now if you could get your hands on the =
original piece from which the mold was taken then you would have a piece =
of fine art......A lot of Rookwood and Weller and others while done in a =
production setting were one of a kind originals....some only the =
decoration...some decoration and form.....All of Niloak's Missionware is =
handthrown and trimmed....They are fine art and the prices reflect =
that.....You won't find two Missionware pieces EXACTLY the same
The lack of fine art creeps in when the piece is taken from the =
artist and 10000 copies are made.....Then they become copies....Like =
pictures in a book; they may be nice to look at and touch. They may be =
easy to obtain at the local Walmart, but they no longer fit my personal =
definition of fine art....If the 10000-100000-1000000 copies are done by =
slave labor then they can actually become a little offensive to my well =
lashed palette.
As a teenager I chose to make art....My wife got a job on a =
receiving dock...She has kept the same job for going on thirty =
years....Through hard work and advancement she now commands considerable =
respect in her company and field....I blew off going to college because =
I didn't feel I needed my vision tainted by demanding posers to make =
fine art......I did commercial art for many years, but no one was =
telling me how I had to interpret what I was doing....I did a few pieces =
that I would actually consider fine art even though they did not spring =
from my vision....All the while I was still doing fine art on my own =
time. As a commercial artist(slave), I worked for probably 10 =
different companies...I was never fired or laid off and I usually left =
them in a huff, because the owners of the concern were all too happy to =
let me work 100 hours a week, but totally unwilling to pay for the =
service(artists LOVE the work,and are a dime a dozen)...The last piece I =
did sold for $45000....I built it in 2 weeks while doing other =
tasks....I figured my take at around $400....Then two days later the =
"BIG BOSSMAN" was out in the shop letting me know I had no right to =
question him even if he was dead wrong....My wife and I decided it would =
be morally wrong for me to continue....I quit and have since made only =
fine art...It is quite a decision for an American male to refuse to do =
what he is trained to do, and refuse to tap into the only facsimile of =
security that he can perceive; crappy as it was...To make a long story =
short it was the best decision I ever made. I am now fulfilled by my =
work..We are now a happy family...I can be at either of my children's =
side in 10 minutes.....She provides the cash to keep us afloat....I have =
filled our house and 2 storage facilities with fine art
Of course my life decisions may not jive with the "I know more =
about what you do than you do" crowd....I may not have a long pedigree =
tattooed on my forehead or laminated to whup out as proof in any =
argument....I may not sell a lot....I may not be buying any top of the =
line digital video cameras soon. Though I haven't tried hard I have =
won awards....My favorite is the Elizabeth Thompson Memorial Award....My =
bowls were featured at a function where the City of Dallas met the major =
money, 3 pieces of mine stayed in the office of the publicity director =
of D ART(name now changed) for over a year.......My most meaningful =
victories are satisfied customers....I've heard stories of daily use for =
long periods, not allowing others to wash them, and I've seen tears over =
breakage(don't worry I offer a lifetime guarantee).
I am not WOWED by any man's claim that his hands produce =
anything.....Posing and pedigrees do not impress me...I do what I do You =
can all do what you do....But you will all be damn hard pressed to try =
to convince me that your ideas and decisions should carry more weight =
than my own if we are talking about the field of fine art
We could on the other hand help each other out in a spirit of =
cooperation...Snide remarks, inside asides(I'm right here), =
condescending crap, BS demonstrations of self perceived omnipotence, =
dogma et al are useless....I have been laughing at the slings and arrows =
longer than some of you have been alive; all the while never doubting my =
membership in the brotherhood of artists.....Instead of making me wanna =
kow tow and genuflect to the massa they make me see the frightened poser =
inside who is afraid their little apple cart might be upset by a little =
of the facts of my situation...They are likely the ones who would tell =
someone to "look it up" because it would be beneath their station to =
give a simple answer, and of course I have no help for them because they =
already know everything about everything ....Must be a sorry way to =
live; having to guard all the answers.
I am foolishly hoping that no one else will be required to try to =
put me in my proper place, but I'm a realist so fire at will, I'm still =
willing and able to fire backHEHEHEHE
artimator
artimator@earthlink.net=20
http://www.geocities.com/artimator/index.html=20
http://home.earthlink.net/~artimator/index.html
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/texasceramics
"I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
Mudlark wrote:
Like I said with the "Perfect Day" post you make the choices of how you =
need to approach your art, or what ever you want to call it, with the =
lifestyle you choose.
On the other hand, I don't see how the reproduction of a piece such as a =
bowl decreases it's artistic expression. Sung dynasty? Unknown =
Craftsman? So pots are not beautiful if they were made in quantity. =
This goes along with the same thinking that art has to be big to be =
good.
mudlark on tue 13 mar 01
Wow, it's not like we sit down one morning and make up our perfect day. I=
have two grown boys, spent a lot of time putting it all together. And no=
w I'm here, doing it again. The choices are made and build one on the ot=
her.
Yes, I'm talking about a different production than you. Although I use a =
jigger for the stuff that hurts to make too much. Yes being a production =
potter could be a factory job....unless each piece is a new being.
artimater wrote:
> I have nothing against production potters...If the works are done =
in good taste they can be very satisfying to own....I own about 10000 pie=
ces of production work....Mainly Frankoma, Camark, Niloak, Weller, Rookwo=
od, Van Briggle, Hammet and many unknowns.....Most of it is a stretch to =
call fine art....Now if you could get your hands on the original piece fr=
om which the mold was taken then you would have a piece of fine art......=
A lot of Rookwood and Weller and others while done in a production settin=
g were one of a kind originals....some only the decoration...some decorat=
ion and form.....All of Niloak's Missionware is handthrown and trimmed...=
=2EThey are fine art and the prices reflect that.....You won't find two M=
issionware pieces EXACTLY the same
> The lack of fine art creeps in when the piece is taken from the ar=
tist and 10000 copies are made.....Then they become copies....Like pictur=
es in a book; they may be nice to look at and touch. They may be easy to=
obtain at the local Walmart, but they no longer fit my personal definiti=
on of fine art....If the 10000-100000-1000000 copies are done by slave la=
bor then they can actually become a little offensive to my well lashed pa=
lette.
> As a teenager I chose to make art....My wife got a job on a receiv=
ing dock...She has kept the same job for going on thirty years....Through=
hard work and advancement she now commands considerable respect in her c=
ompany and field....I blew off going to college because I didn't feel I n=
eeded my vision tainted by demanding posers to make fine art......I did c=
ommercial art for many years, but no one was telling me how I had to inte=
rpret what I was doing....I did a few pieces that I would actually consid=
er fine art even though they did not spring from my vision....All the whi=
le I was still doing fine art on my own time. As a commercial artist(sl=
ave), I worked for probably 10 different companies...I was never fired or=
laid off and I usually left them in a huff, because the owners of the c=
oncern were all too happy to let me work 100 hours a week, but totally un=
willing to pay for the service(artists LOVE the work,and are a dime a doz=
en)...The last piece I did sold for $45000....I
> built it in 2 weeks while doing other tasks....I figured my take at aro=
und $400....Then two days later the "BIG BOSSMAN" was out in the shop let=
ting me know I had no right to question him even if he was dead wrong....=
My wife and I decided it would be morally wrong for me to continue....I q=
uit and have since made only fine art...It is quite a decision for an Ame=
rican male to refuse to do what he is trained to do, and refuse to tap in=
to the only facsimile of security that he can perceive; crappy as it was.=
=2E.To make a long story short it was the best decision I ever made. I a=
m now fulfilled by my work..We are now a happy family...I can be at eithe=
r of my children's side in 10 minutes.....She provides the cash to keep u=
s afloat....I have filled our house and 2 storage facilities with fine ar=
t
> Of course my life decisions may not jive with the "I know more abo=
ut what you do than you do" crowd....I may not have a long pedigree tatto=
oed on my forehead or laminated to whup out as proof in any argument....I=
may not sell a lot....I may not be buying any top of the line digital vi=
deo cameras soon. Though I haven't tried hard I have won awards....My f=
avorite is the Elizabeth Thompson Memorial Award....My bowls were feature=
d at a function where the City of Dallas met the major money, 3 pieces o=
f mine stayed in the office of the publicity director of D ART(name now c=
hanged) for over a year.......My most meaningful victories are satisfied =
customers....I've heard stories of daily use for long periods, not allowi=
ng others to wash them, and I've seen tears over breakage(don't worry I o=
ffer a lifetime guarantee).
> I am not WOWED by any man's claim that his hands produce anything.=
=2E...Posing and pedigrees do not impress me...I do what I do You can all=
do what you do....But you will all be damn hard pressed to try to convin=
ce me that your ideas and decisions should carry more weight than my own =
if we are talking about the field of fine art
> We could on the other hand help each other out in a spirit of coop=
eration...Snide remarks, inside asides(I'm right here), condescending cra=
p, BS demonstrations of self perceived omnipotence, dogma et al are usele=
ss....I have been laughing at the slings and arrows longer than some of y=
ou have been alive; all the while never doubting my membership in the bro=
therhood of artists.....Instead of making me wanna kow tow and genuflect =
to the massa they make me see the frightened poser inside who is afraid t=
heir little apple cart might be upset by a little of the facts of my situ=
ation...They are likely the ones who would tell someone to "look it up" b=
ecause it would be beneath their station to give a simple answer, and of =
course I have no help for them because they already know everything about=
everything ....Must be a sorry way to live; having to guard all the answ=
ers.
> I am foolishly hoping that no one else will be required to try to=
put me in my proper place, but I'm a realist so fire at will, I'm still=
willing and able to fire backHEHEHEHE
>
> artimator
> artimator@earthlink.net
> http://www.geocities.com/artimator/index.html
> http://home.earthlink.net/~artimator/index.html
> http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/texasceramics
> "I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of indulgenc=
es and snakes handy"
> Mudlark wrote:
> Like I said with the "Perfect Day" post you make the choices of how yo=
u need to approach your art, or what ever you want to call it, with the l=
ifestyle you choose.
> On the other hand, I don't see how the reproduction of a piece such as =
a bowl decreases it's artistic expression. Sung dynasty? Unknown Craftsma=
n? So pots are not beautiful if they were made in quantity. This goes al=
ong with the same thinking that art has to be big to be good.
>
> _______________________________________________________________________=
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> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
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>
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