Bret Hinsch on tue 20 mar 01
Hi Bacia,
Song dynasty potters did sometimes use supports within the saggers. The
most famous example is Ru (Ju) ware, which was fired on top of a
three-pronged support. This meant that the entire foot could be glazed, and
only three little pinpricks of unglazed space on the bottom were left bare.
If you're ever lucky enough to see the bottom of a Ru vessel, be sure to
notice the glazed foot and the three marks on the base.
As for Ding, although some was made for the imperial court (which is the
stuff you now see displayed in museums), most Ding ware was an ordinary
commercial ware. It was produced in huge quantities for the general market,
so there was a high tolerance for imperfection in the glaze. I've never
heard of anything like the racks you're describing. It's pretty clear to me
how the things were fired - like the catalogue said, they just turned the
bowls upside down on their rims inside the saggers. After firing, they
might cover the rim in a metal band, or (for the mass market) just leave it
bare. It seems odd to me that those potters would consider an unglazed rim
better than an unglazed foot, but the catalogue is probably right - firing
them upside down let the potters throw the bowls more thinly. Personally,
I'd rather have a thick bowl with a glazed rim than a thin bowl with an
unglazed rim, but tastes change.
Dissatisfaction with the unglazed rims of Ding ware was a major motivation
for innovation in imperial wares in the late Northern Song dynasty. Ru,
Guan, and Jun wares were all produced with minimal unglazed surfaces - and
the unglazed parts are all on the bottom of the vessel.
Bret in Taipei
>From: Bacia Edelman
>Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Chinese Ceramic History question
>Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:32:33 -0600
>
>The U. of Wisconsin campus museum has had some great shows
>of early Chinese ceramics, such as one called something like
>"Hare, Fur and Feather." (not sure exact title).
>My question deals with how they fired their Ding ware which is
>part of the Song dynasty. Let me tell you what the catalog
>describes. And this is the 11th Century!!!
>The few pieces I am referring to are called Northern
>Song Ding ware.
> "Potters at the Ding kilns began firing most bowls and dishes
>upside down and stacked in saggars in order to prevent warping
>of the thin walls and to save space in the kiln."
>It seems that they also wiped the rims free of glaze and later
>banded the rims with silver, copper or gold.
>In my long years with clay, I have never happened to use plate
>or tile setters, but I can visualize them.
>Could it be possible that these exquisite bowls, notched evenly
>at rim like a flower, were packed in some kind of plate setter
>within the saggars? I just can't imagine it for the 11th C.
>Anyone know?
>This show at the Elvejhem Museum in Madison is called Heaven and Earth
>Seen Within (Song Ceramics from the Robert Barron Collection.)
>I mention it for those on the list who might be able to get
>to or live near Madison, WI.
>Regards. Bacia
>
>
>
>Bacia Edelman Madison, Wisconsin
>http://www.mypots.com/bacia.htm
>http://www.silverhawk5.com/edelman/index.html
>
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Snail Scott on tue 20 mar 01
At 06:32 PM 3/20/01 -0600, you wrote:
>Could it be possible that these exquisite bowls, notched evenly
>at rim like a flower, were packed in some kind of plate setter
>within the saggars? I just can't imagine it for the 11th C.
>Regards. Bacia
A 16th C Italian pottery treatise describes firing small bowls
stacked up in their saggars, sitting on fired rods which were
slid through slots in the saggar walls, and acted like setters.
The illustrations are pretty clear, and the technology is fairly
basic. True, the Italian work was earthenware, but you may be
right. It seems possible. But, if the rims weren't glazed, maybe
they were stacked rim-to-rim and foot-to-foot. Much easier,
and more likely at high-fire, I would think.
(source: "The Three Books of the Pottter's Art"
by Cipriano Piccolpasso.)
-Snail
Bacia Edelman on tue 20 mar 01
The U. of Wisconsin campus museum has had some great shows
of early Chinese ceramics, such as one called something like
"Hare, Fur and Feather." (not sure exact title).
My question deals with how they fired their Ding ware which is
part of the Song dynasty. Let me tell you what the catalog
describes. And this is the 11th Century!!!
The few pieces I am referring to are called Northern
Song Ding ware.
"Potters at the Ding kilns began firing most bowls and dishes
upside down and stacked in saggars in order to prevent warping
of the thin walls and to save space in the kiln."
It seems that they also wiped the rims free of glaze and later
banded the rims with silver, copper or gold.
In my long years with clay, I have never happened to use plate
or tile setters, but I can visualize them.
Could it be possible that these exquisite bowls, notched evenly
at rim like a flower, were packed in some kind of plate setter
within the saggars? I just can't imagine it for the 11th C.
Anyone know?
This show at the Elvejhem Museum in Madison is called Heaven and Earth
Seen Within (Song Ceramics from the Robert Barron Collection.)
I mention it for those on the list who might be able to get
to or live near Madison, WI.
Regards. Bacia
Bacia Edelman Madison, Wisconsin
http://www.mypots.com/bacia.htm
http://www.silverhawk5.com/edelman/index.html
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