Sharon Miranda on tue 20 mar 01
Dear clayarters:
Here is a posting I sent to the gerstley borate.com site. Thought you might
be interested.
I recently got boraq from Axner co. and tried it in my floating blue recipe
(the one published by Ron Roy). My results colorwise were exactly the same
as my original floating blue (tho my glaze does not look as wonderful as the
picture you have published on this site, am wondering if it could be that I
used cobalt carb instead of cobalt oxide (I increased the amount of cob.
carb to 1.5). What I DID get, however, was running off the pot, whereas this
did not happen with the original recipe (nor indeed with the test tile of
original floating blue in the SAME firing). I fired to cone 6, in a slow
firing, with controlled cool down to 1100. Do you have any suggestions about
the glaze running?
Also: I noticed you have a recipe for floating red on your site. I have
tested this recipe many times and find what you say to be true: i.e. the
glaze runs badly , and can bubble at high temps or fast firings. Some time
ago I asked help from clayart for this glaze, these are the responses I got:
from Tom Buck:
I checked this mix (floating red) and you are way off normal limits so your
glaze in not amenable to reasonable prediction, only tests will show what
happens. I did try to move it to C6 ox, using your original mix as the
template. All I can suggest is that you mix a 200 gram batch or more, and
fire it:
Iron red C6 ox
28 gerstley borate
28 G200 fs (or Custer fs)
9 talc (Nytalc or equal)
7 Wollastonite
7 EP Kaolin
21 flint fine mesh (200+)
(this is Sharon: I tested this recipe and it works much better, however, it
does not have the fascinating pools or deep red that I seem to have become
addicted to.)
Another clayarter also wrote:
I was wondering if you had any ingredients missing here. I entered this
formula in Insight to give it a shot and found out that there isn't a shred
of alumina. Also there is not enough silica to fire it beyond c05 without a
catastrophy.
And finally Paul Lewing said:
I've tested and used dozens of versions of this iron red glaze, and they're
all pretty similar. They have a lot of calcium, almost as much, (but not
more) magnesium, lots of boron, not much silica and almost no alumina. They
are all runny and matte, very sensitive to temperature and even more to rate
of cooling, and are very affected by the brand of iron you use. And they
won't be red of the Si/Al ratio is under about 18:1, or if there's more Mg
and Ca. Food-safe? maybe. Durable? noway....
I've given up on them in favor of a lead glaze I call Drop Dead Red, which
has all the same post-firing problems but does at least come out
consistently iron red and glossy.
Recipe for floating red:
Ger. Borate: 54.88
talc 14.63
flint 30.49
RIO 21.95
If anyone has a working recipe for floating red, that has the same deep red
pools, and does not float off the pot, please let me know. I'll also be
checking the archives.
thanks, Sharon
Sharon
SusanRaku@AOL.COM on wed 21 mar 01
In a message dated 03/21/2001 10:05:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
75124.2520@COMPUSERVE.COM writes:
<< I made up a test batch of the same recipe and put it on small test
bowls and a tiles. It did not run off the pot, but the reds were
unpredictable. It came out beautifully sometimes and dull without the reds
at others! >>
I just made a large batch of Red Brown, or more currently named Ketchup Red.
It is turning tan/brown all the time, and regardless of its thickness. Is
there something that I can do to make sure it comes out with red in it?
Susan
Ababi on wed 21 mar 01
Hello Sharon! Don't jump into lead and don't start to smoke cigarettes!
=================
Ger. Borate:........ 45.00 45.00%
talc................ 12.00 12.00%
flint............... 25.00 25.00%
RIO................. 18.00 18.00%
========
100.00
CaO 0.51* 12.27%
MgO 0.38* 6.59%
Na2O 0.11* 2.89%
Al2O3 0.01 0.61%
B2O3 0.51 15.29%
SiO2 1.61 41.60%
Fe2O3 0.30 20.74%
Si:Al116.68
SiB:Al153.72
Expan 7.67
There is almost no alumina! You can drink this glaze!
I suggest you to add Either Alumina hydrate, try 1-5 or more, or add kaolin
ball clay or red clay.
just no lead!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Miranda"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 6:38 AM
Subject: Floating blue, Floating red
> Dear clayarters:
> Here is a posting I sent to the gerstley borate.com site. Thought you
might
> be interested.
>
>
> I recently got boraq from Axner co. and tried it in my floating blue
recipe
> (the one published by Ron Roy). My results colorwise were exactly the same
> as my original floating blue (tho my glaze does not look as wonderful as
the
> picture you have published on this site, am wondering if it could be that
I
> used cobalt carb instead of cobalt oxide (I increased the amount of cob.
> carb to 1.5). What I DID get, however, was running off the pot, whereas
this
> did not happen with the original recipe (nor indeed with the test tile of
> original floating blue in the SAME firing). I fired to cone 6, in a slow
> firing, with controlled cool down to 1100. Do you have any suggestions
about
> the glaze running?
>
> Also: I noticed you have a recipe for floating red on your site. I have
> tested this recipe many times and find what you say to be true: i.e. the
> glaze runs badly , and can bubble at high temps or fast firings. Some time
> ago I asked help from clayart for this glaze, these are the responses I
got:
>
> from Tom Buck:
> I checked this mix (floating red) and you are way off normal limits so
your
> glaze in not amenable to reasonable prediction, only tests will show what
> happens. I did try to move it to C6 ox, using your original mix as the
> template. All I can suggest is that you mix a 200 gram batch or more, and
> fire it:
> Iron red C6 ox
> 28 gerstley borate
> 28 G200 fs (or Custer fs)
> 9 talc (Nytalc or equal)
> 7 Wollastonite
> 7 EP Kaolin
> 21 flint fine mesh (200+)
>
> (this is Sharon: I tested this recipe and it works much better, however,
it
> does not have the fascinating pools or deep red that I seem to have become
> addicted to.)
>
> Another clayarter also wrote:
> I was wondering if you had any ingredients missing here. I entered this
> formula in Insight to give it a shot and found out that there isn't a
shred
> of alumina. Also there is not enough silica to fire it beyond c05 without
a
> catastrophy.
>
> And finally Paul Lewing said:
> I've tested and used dozens of versions of this iron red glaze, and
they're
> all pretty similar. They have a lot of calcium, almost as much, (but not
> more) magnesium, lots of boron, not much silica and almost no alumina.
They
> are all runny and matte, very sensitive to temperature and even more to
rate
> of cooling, and are very affected by the brand of iron you use. And they
> won't be red of the Si/Al ratio is under about 18:1, or if there's more Mg
> and Ca. Food-safe? maybe. Durable? noway....
> I've given up on them in favor of a lead glaze I call Drop Dead Red, which
> has all the same post-firing problems but does at least come out
> consistently iron red and glossy.
>
>
>
> Recipe for floating red:
> Ger. Borate: 54.88
> talc 14.63
> flint 30.49
> RIO 21.95
>
> If anyone has a working recipe for floating red, that has the same deep
red
> pools, and does not float off the pot, please let me know. I'll also be
> checking the archives.
> thanks, Sharon
> Sharon
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Khaimraj Seepersad on wed 21 mar 01
Greetings to All ,
Ababi ,
[ sent as a gentle comment and in a soft voice ]
Drink this glaze ?????
Borax and Boric Acid is still used as cockroach poison.
B203 is poisonous .
It will leach out of Glass if there is insufficient silica , or
if the glaze is unstable.
Please - even if said in jest - Respect B203 , it is harmful.
Always have your glazes tested.
See the Martin Dale - Pharmocopoeia , don't take my word
on this .
Khaimraj
* Acutually has anyone actually tested this glaze ?
Would the Fe203 help destabilise this glaze ?
I am tempted to test this glaze with Ti02 as the
stabiliser , maybe replace the Ca0 .
[ Nah may affect the Iron Negatively - still ??? ]
-----Original Message-----
From: Ababi
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: 21 March 2001 9:29
Subject: Re: Floating blue, Floating red
>Hello Sharon! Don't jump into lead and don't start to smoke cigarettes!
>
>=================
> Ger. Borate:........ 45.00 45.00%
> talc................ 12.00 12.00%
> flint............... 25.00 25.00%
> RIO................. 18.00 18.00%
> ========
> 100.00
>
> CaO 0.51* 12.27%
> MgO 0.38* 6.59%
> Na2O 0.11* 2.89%
> Al2O3 0.01 0.61%
> B2O3 0.51 15.29%
> SiO2 1.61 41.60%
> Fe2O3 0.30 20.74%
>
>
> Si:Al116.68
> SiB:Al153.72
> Expan 7.67
>There is almost no alumina! You can drink this glaze!
>I suggest you to add Either Alumina hydrate, try 1-5 or more, or add
kaolin
>ball clay or red clay.
>just no lead!
>
Ababi on wed 21 mar 01
Sorry sorry sorry! I meant glaze without alumina will be too watery. The
Crystalline glaze I use has 0.04 mol alumina and it runs like hell! My raku
glaze I try to have about 0.1 mol alumina but in this glaze the floating
red, it looks like there is a missing inderegiant!
About cigarettes (I was there badly) and lead, you agree with me?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Khaimraj Seepersad"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 12:50 AM
Subject: Re: Floating blue, Floating red
> Greetings to All ,
>
> Ababi ,
> [ sent as a gentle comment and in a soft voice ]
>
> Drink this glaze ?????
>
> Borax and Boric Acid is still used as cockroach poison.
> B203 is poisonous .
>
> It will leach out of Glass if there is insufficient silica , or
> if the glaze is unstable.
>
> Please - even if said in jest - Respect B203 , it is harmful.
> Always have your glazes tested.
>
> See the Martin Dale - Pharmocopoeia , don't take my word
> on this .
> Khaimraj
>
> * Acutually has anyone actually tested this glaze ?
> Would the Fe203 help destabilise this glaze ?
>
> I am tempted to test this glaze with Ti02 as the
> stabiliser , maybe replace the Ca0 .
> [ Nah may affect the Iron Negatively - still ??? ]
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ababi
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: 21 March 2001 9:29
> Subject: Re: Floating blue, Floating red
>
>
> >Hello Sharon! Don't jump into lead and don't start to smoke cigarettes!
> >
> >=================
> > Ger. Borate:........ 45.00 45.00%
> > talc................ 12.00 12.00%
> > flint............... 25.00 25.00%
> > RIO................. 18.00 18.00%
> > ========
> > 100.00
> >
> > CaO 0.51* 12.27%
> > MgO 0.38* 6.59%
> > Na2O 0.11* 2.89%
> > Al2O3 0.01 0.61%
> > B2O3 0.51 15.29%
> > SiO2 1.61 41.60%
> > Fe2O3 0.30 20.74%
> >
> >
> > Si:Al116.68
> > SiB:Al153.72
> > Expan 7.67
> >There is almost no alumina! You can drink this glaze!
> >I suggest you to add Either Alumina hydrate, try 1-5 or more, or add
> kaolin
> >ball clay or red clay.
> >just no lead!
> >
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Khaimraj Seepersad on wed 21 mar 01
Hello to All ,
Oh , Ababi ,
I don't mean to be cruel - but that was hilarious !
Lead and Cigarettes , I definitely agree .
Here's one on me .
I once created a clay formula for my sister to make
tea cups without handles [ a slip pouring clay mix ]
using a home made mould .
Somehow I used an earthenware clay . I should have
realised from the amount of water / soda it took .
Well , it cast easily and dried well . The greenware
started off as a little larger than a normal teacup.
After firing to cone 03 , they were just little larger than
thimbles .
[ complete with two grown idiots going around speaking
in mouse voices with Japanese accents , saying - ahsooo
followed with cartoon laughing ].
Nutcases down here.
Then there was the Tri-Poly - Phosphate Glaze .......
Stay Well ,
Khaimraj
-----Original Message-----
From: Ababi
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: 21 March 2001 14:05
Subject: Re: Floating blue, Floating red
>Sorry sorry sorry! I meant glaze without alumina will be too watery. The
>Crystalline glaze I use has 0.04 mol alumina and it runs like hell! My raku
>glaze I try to have about 0.1 mol alumina but in this glaze the floating
>red, it looks like there is a missing inderegiant!
>About cigarettes (I was there badly) and lead, you agree with me?
Tommy Humphries on wed 21 mar 01
I took the comment to be a reference to the fluidity of the glaze, not the
safety of the ingredients. This is a prime example of different
interpretations of a simple statement!
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From: "Khaimraj Seepersad"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Floating blue, Floating red
> Greetings to All ,
>
> Ababi ,
> [ sent as a gentle comment and in a soft voice ]
>
> Drink this glaze ?????
>
> Borax and Boric Acid is still used as cockroach poison.
> B203 is poisonous .
Veena Raghavan on wed 21 mar 01
Message text written by Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>Recipe for floating red:
Ger. Borate: 54.88
talc 14.63
flint 30.49
RIO 21.95
If anyone has a working recipe for floating red, that has the same deep red
pools, and does not float off the pot<
Hi Sharon,
I made up a test batch of the same recipe and put it on small test
bowls and a tiles. It did not run off the pot, but the reds were
unpredictable. It came out beautifully sometimes and dull without the reds
at others!
Do let us know if you find a good floating red, as I just love it,
when it comes out well.
Good luck.
Veena
Veena Raghavan
75124.2520@compuserve.com
Ababi on thu 22 mar 01
> I took the comment to be a reference to the fluidity of the glaze
Thank you!
In my opinion,even drinking slurry of mud and water from your backyard
without any special chemicals,can be harmful !
Ababi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tommy Humphries"
To:
Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 1:11 AM
Subject: Re: Floating blue, Floating red
> I took the comment to be a reference to the fluidity of the glaze, not the
> safety of the ingredients. This is a prime example of different
> interpretations of a simple statement!
>
> Tommy
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Khaimraj Seepersad"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:50 PM
> Subject: Re: Floating blue, Floating red
>
>
> > Greetings to All ,
> >
> > Ababi ,
> > [ sent as a gentle comment and in a soft voice ]
> >
> > Drink this glaze ?????
> >
> > Borax and Boric Acid is still used as cockroach poison.
> > B203 is poisonous .
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Mary L. Ernst on fri 23 mar 01
Susan writes: "I just made a large batch of Red Brown, or more currently
named Ketchup Red. It is turning tan/brown all the time, and regardless
of its thickness. Is there something that I can do to make sure it
comes out with red in it?"
Susan, try refiring to cone 04. I find that often works. Let us know.
Mary Ernst
Tony Hansen on tue 27 mar 01
> I recently got boraq from Axner co. and tried it in my floating blue recipe
> .... What I DID get, however, was running off the pot, whereas this
> did not happen with the original recipe (nor indeed with the test tile of
> original floating blue in the SAME firing).
Our tests indicate identical flow behavior and we have a picture of the
flow test results on the floating blue page at
http://www.digitalfire.com/gerstleyborate/recipes/floatingblue.shtml
However, as noted on the web site, the Boraq version of Floating Blue goes
on thicker. You have to dip it quicker. If it is thicker it will run more.
Much of the visual effect is due to the fluid nature of the melt, floating blue
is 'on the edge' and it does not take much to make it start running.
There is another possibility also. Boraq 2 has a silica content that is a
little
lower than GB. We did this for very good reasons as explained at
http://www.digitalfire.com/gerstleyborate/boraq.shtml
Try adding 5% silica if the glaze runs.
====================================================
T o n y H a n s e n thansen@digitalfire.com
D I G I T A L F I R E C O R P O R A T I O N
http://digitalfire.com Calculation/Database Software for Ceramic Industry
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