Jessica Morton on thu 22 mar 01
Enjoyed Mel's "old teacher issue" post - and being an old teacher
myself, want to add what a fellow student told me in our ceramics
studio a while back:
"You can ruin a good pot with bad glazing, but you can't save a bad
pot with good glazing."
"It's not that children are little scientists but that
scientists are big children."
---"The Scientist in the Crib" by Gopnik, Meltzoff, and Kuhl
mel jacobson on thu 22 mar 01
this is an old teacher issue with me.
many potters spend most of their adult lives
looking for a great glaze to put on their pots.
if they spent the same amount of time on the
form and design of the pot, well, almost any glaze would do.
a potter starts and is most involved with clay.
clay clay clay. the form that comes from
the hands and mind of that potter is what makes
the pot. the glaze is that glass coating that covers
that form. the form does not change in the kiln. the
glaze does. you can alter the glaze, the form stays
forever. god, i have so many awful pots, forms that
are terrible, and a great `floating blue`. bad pots. nice glaze.
the world at large may say `oh, i buy anything as long as it is blue`.
but, you are judged by your fellow potters based on your forms, and
the entire package.
the form is the bones and flesh of the pot, the glaze is just
the cosmetic makeup you apply.
mr. uchida, (sexist statement by him, not me.) would often
say:
`glaze and decoration are like putting lots of makeup on an ugly
whore, no matter how much you apply, she is still ugly.`
he would then add, `make all of your pots pure white for a year.
then we will see what kind of potter you are`.
he did 90 percent of his pots, pure white. and they were damn nice.
(in my opinion.)
form, it is the most neglected part of ceramics.
glaze, the most over billed part of ceramics.
just as an example, i have a large tony clennell pot on my red
chest in the living room. it has a simple, clear shino glaze. no
decoration. that pot could be pure white, jet black, or not glazed.
it would be a great pot. the form is perfect.
dannon rhudy had a centerfold photo in cm of her pots,
as they were drying. just her forms. it was one of the best
pictures i have ever seen in cm.
if you make great forms, you need just a few quality glazes
that are safe, dependable and durable. then get busy with
pots, they are made from clay.
research is a part of all of us. just keep a balance.
mel
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
Matt MacIntire on fri 23 mar 01
>> Mel J, quoting Mr. Uchida:
>> 'make all of your pots pure white for a year.
>> then we will see what kind of potter you are'
Mr. Uchida was, evidently, a wise man. He makes an interesting challenge.
Few potters that I have seen could spend a year in white.
I wonder why so few potters seem interested in the beauty of the forms
themselves? When I see pots for sale, I often wonder if most folks even
look at the forms of their work.
Lots of mundane work is very slick and professional in other respects. I
guess it is easier to learn how to make a fancy glaze, than to learn to
create forms with a subtle dignity. A recipe can be shared. An eye for
beautiful form must be cultivated.
But curiously, I have seen other people (myself included) who have decent
forms, but ruin them with glazes that don't work as they ought to. The
further I get from a wet piece the less my own work appeals to me. A strong
pot without a good glaze is just as disappointing.
Mastering the WHOLE process seems to be a life's work. We each start in
different places, but we all have to master the full range of our craft if
we expect our work to have any lasting value.
I agree with Mel that quite often, too much emphasis is placed on
embellishment. I agree too that there is not enough attention to the
simple, elegant beauty that a pottery form can have.
I admire those who search for expressive forms. Such work has a powerful
inner beauty that people respond to, even if they don't know quite why.
Form, color, surface, these variables are limitless. A work of pottery that
has the complete beauty of a sculpture is a rare accomplishment. We should
each hope to create a few in our lives.
And then our kids will drop them on the floor.
Matt
Cindy Strnad on fri 23 mar 01
Alisa,
That was the cutest story. I'll bet your mom and dad reaped
great heaps of amusement from that little ritual.
Now, about the glazes. I've been thinking about this subject since Mel
brought it up. So, here's my "sagely" (I wish) opinion.
The form must be the foundation. Without the form, you have nothing--well,
nothing good, anyway. The finish is important, too, though. Some pots should
have no glaze at all. Some are gorgeous in terra sig. Some need a nice oxide
wash, a slip, an engobe.
Some pots look good in crackles, and some can't tolerate that kind of
treatment. Simple, basic pots can carry off a shiny glaze; complex
sculptural pots with many changes in surface direction require a matte
glaze, if any. Otherwise, their myriad reflections will quickly become
confusing and overwhelming.
So yes, the form is most important. I think any well-formed piece of pottery
can go glazeless. Just like a well-formed (or even fairly well-formed) human
looks fine au natural.
But of course, said well-formed human will probably wear clothing most of
the time, for a host of various reasons. Not every human, no matter how
well-built, looks best in every type and color of clothing. Then too, a
human who engages in, say, making pottery, will want different coverings
than a human who plans to spend the day serving tea.
So, suit the suit to the person and his or her situation. Suit the glaze to
the pot and its purpose.
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
Lois Ruben Aronow on fri 23 mar 01
This is an issue that is VERY close to my heart.
Last summer, I took 2 workshops. Both concentrated on the "why"
rather than the "how" of making pots. During the second one, I asked
for a critique, both from the teacher and the class. I brought
slides. The biggest surprise for me was, when I talked about my own
work, the first thing I brought up was the glaze. I am an avid glaze
tester, and could tell incredible stories about the glaze. BU - I
couldn't tell you thing 1 about the pots. =20
When this was pointed out to me, it was an epiphany. In therapy the
would have called it a breakthrough. It wasn't that my forms sucked.
They didn't. But my way of thinking was so wrapped up in the issue of
glaze. Someone suggested to me that I glaze my pots in our ugliest
glaze for a while. The instructor (Jeff Oestreich) suggested I stick
to a palette of 3 glazes I liked, and do no glaze testing for 6
months.
Needless to say, my pots, and my approach, radically improved since
last summer. My approach nowadays is not the glaze making the pot,
but the glaze *finishing* the pot. My glaze testing now mainly
consists of improving those 3 glazes (my palette) for fit, colour,
richness, etc. I still test new glazes, but it's more a curiosity
thing now. Its not to find the ONE GLAZE that will make my pot
PERFECT. The glaze now, for me, should be the icing on the cake, and
not the cake itself.
In addition, this philosophy extends to firing method as well. I
cannot count the times I have heard people say they are "stuck" firing
electric. (Oh! If only I had gas! Then my pots would be perfect!).
And salt, man, now THERE is the makings for a perfect pot. Wood AND
salt? Orgasm central. NOT TRUE!! If a potter pays little attention
to form, design, and detail, they will get a sucky pot out of any type
of kiln. =20
And then I realised, just by coincidence, that many of my favourite
potters/ceramic designers work in white. Now if only I can find that
perfect white.........
vince pitelka on fri 23 mar 01
> Lots of mundane work is very slick and professional in other respects. I
> guess it is easier to learn how to make a fancy glaze, than to learn to
> create forms with a subtle dignity. A recipe can be shared. An eye for
> beautiful form must be cultivated.
Matt -
You hit the nail on the head here. Harvesting recipes from books,
magazines, the web is an easy matter. A beautiful glaze is a wonder to
behold, but too often is used on a cold sterile form. Student potters
should emphasize the exploration of form, and all potters should continually
look at form, evaluating and reevaluating their pots, challenging
themselves, seeking new forms. Too many pots sell by the glaze and not by
the form. That is not difficult, because most customers select based on
color and surface rather than form. If we give them good glazes on good
forms, we educate the consumer to appreciate good pots. It is our
responsibility to do so.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Barney Adams on sat 24 mar 01
I agree with this in that the path to being a potter is different for each of us.
I do not like to glaze, but for me to improve my glaze application skills
I glaze even pieces I don't care for. Form is what I work on along with
my throwing skill. I started too late to learn to throw in a formal style
like that in Japan. I do recognize the need for discipline. I think each of us must
take the path that is right for us. I believe that it is important to be honest
with
one's self about the discipline of following the path. It is much more difficult
for me to find my way with out a master or teacher helping to guide me. I have
accepted that task too and only I know if I am honestly applying myself.
I tend to have bouts of laziness and wander (those pots sit on my shelves to
remind me).
Barney
Rikki Gill wrote:
> I want to jump right in here and say that there are many ways to be a
> potter. I am one who loves all the process...I love to throw, etc but what
> has kept me a potter for thirty years is my love of decoration. I consider
> myself a painter working in the medium of clay. That doen't mean cows at
> sunset, it means abstract patterns of color complimenting the form. Each
> piece is different. I sometimes use 10 different glazes, oxides, slips if I
> want a certain effect. It works if you have the patience to keep with it
> till you get what you want. I hate to think that there is only one way to
> do anything, and the advice," try it" is what I tell people asking for my
> help.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Taylor
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Date: Saturday, March 24, 2001 11:26 AM
> Subject: Re: glaze vs. form
>
> >Dear All.
> >
> > Although I essentially agree with Mell. I have noticed that some glazes
> >tend to destroy form; particularly ones that do not break well on rims and
> >changes of surface line.
> >
> > Now if I am putting a thick satin glaze on a pot I have to exaggerate.
> the
> >changes in the form allow for the quieting effect of the glaze. This is
> why
> >salt and ash glazes can work so well because the form itself orchestrates
> >the glaze.
> >
> > Also I have noticed that some glazes like green celAons are better if
> >they are put on a pot that has the traditional strong combing or incised
> >decoration - the color is intensified by the frequent changes in glaze
> >thickness. This shows that some glazez only work on certain forms in
> certain
> >ways. So to reiterate mells words you can be trying to improve a glaze when
> >the form and or decorative surface is at fault.
> >
> > To add to that when I first made my porcelain vases I was disappointed
> >until a painter friend said that they wanted more light and she took them
> >out side -they looked better; but when I took the photos on the black back
> >ground they looked even more as I had intended. Although I still believe in
> >essential truth that a good pot is a good pot regardless of enviroment I am
> >impressed how much difference context makes - display etc.
> >
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > I wonder if my new found dislike of shiny surfaces is doing me any
> good.
> >
> > Any way - Mels letter is a reminder to me that my new found obsession
> >with surface treatment can be over done.
> >
> >
> > Regards from Paul Taylor
> >http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
> >
> >Thirty years making pots and I still fell that one day I will get it right
> >and when I do I wont have to make any more and can happily go and get a
> real
> >job.
> >
> >
> >
> >> From: mel jacobson
> >> Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> >> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:29:52 -0600
> >> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> >> Subject: glaze vs. form
> >>
> >> this is an old teacher issue with me.
> >>
> >> many potters spend most of their adult lives
> >> looking for a great glaze to put on their pots.
> >>
> >> if they spent the same amount of time on the
> >> form and design of the pot, well, almost any glaze would do.
> >>
> >> a potter starts and is most involved with clay.
> >> clay clay clay. the form that comes from
> >> the hands and mind of that potter is what makes
> >> the pot. the glaze is that glass coating that covers
> >> that form. the form does not change in the kiln. the
> >> glaze does. you can alter the glaze, the form stays
> >> forever. god, i have so many awful pots, forms that
> >> are terrible, and a great `floating blue`. bad pots. nice glaze.
> >>
> >> the world at large may say `oh, i buy anything as long as it is blue`.
> >> but, you are judged by your fellow potters based on your forms, and
> >> the entire package.
> >>
> >> the form is the bones and flesh of the pot, the glaze is just
> >> the cosmetic makeup you apply.
> >>
> >> mr. uchida, (sexist statement by him, not me.) would often
> >> say:
> >>
> >> `glaze and decoration are like putting lots of makeup on an ugly
> >> whore, no matter how much you apply, she is still ugly.`
> >> he would then add, `make all of your pots pure white for a year.
> >> then we will see what kind of potter you are`.
> >> he did 90 percent of his pots, pure white. and they were damn nice.
> >> (in my opinion.)
> >>
> >> form, it is the most neglected part of ceramics.
> >> glaze, the most over billed part of ceramics.
> >>
> >> just as an example, i have a large tony clennell pot on my red
> >> chest in the living room. it has a simple, clear shino glaze. no
> >> decoration. that pot could be pure white, jet black, or not glazed.
> >> it would be a great pot. the form is perfect.
> >>
> >> dannon rhudy had a centerfold photo in cm of her pots,
> >> as they were drying. just her forms. it was one of the best
> >> pictures i have ever seen in cm.
> >>
> >> if you make great forms, you need just a few quality glazes
> >> that are safe, dependable and durable. then get busy with
> >> pots, they are made from clay.
> >>
> >> research is a part of all of us. just keep a balance.
> >> mel
> >>
> >> From:
> >> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> >> web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> >>
> >
> >___________________________________________________________________________
> ___
> >Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> >You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> >settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> >Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Michelle Dziak on sat 24 mar 01
thanks for that bit of affirmation Mel..
bet you didn't know you were putting
a smile on someone's face with this topic.=20
i am very simple in my work
it's just me and a ball of clay in my lap which
is lovingly sculpted over hours and hours
(sometimes the piece might start as a slab assemblage,
but usually it's roots are in a pinch pot) and eventually
it seems to shape itself into something pretty special
and rather delicate. =20
Glazing seems so contrary to my process.. so quick and abrupt..
so often the piece is simply burnished in it's form.=20
(i just can't stop pawing at it maybe, and it just becomes
burnished)
It's often easy to feel somehow TOO simple..=20
all of that flash and formula and quantity can seem to overshadow =
something as quiet as these
but i'd rather meditate than watch tv any day.
cheers,
Michelle=20
Isao & Don on sat 24 mar 01
At 18:51 3/23/01 -0600, you wrote:
>> Lots of mundane work is very slick and professional in other respects. I
>> guess it is easier to learn how to make a fancy glaze, than to learn to
>> create forms with a subtle dignity. A recipe can be shared. An eye for
>> beautiful form must be cultivated.
>
>Matt -
>You hit the nail on the head here. Harvesting recipes from books,
>magazines, the web is an easy matter. A beautiful glaze is a wonder to
>behold, but too often is used on a cold sterile form. Student potters
>should emphasize the exploration of form, and all potters should continually
>look at form, evaluating and reevaluating their pots, challenging
>themselves, seeking new forms. Too many pots sell by the glaze and not by
>the form. That is not difficult, because most customers select based on
>color and surface rather than form. If we give them good glazes on good
>forms, we educate the consumer to appreciate good pots. It is our
>responsibility to do so.
>Best wishes -
>- Vince, A bit of history: In photography we are wont to state;"Color is
forgiving.B&W is not. Our color perception today is based,to a great extent
upon early development of color film. Millions of $ were spent on reearch
by Eastman in an attempt to develop a dye-based color film capable of being
sold to the publics at an acceptable price. Kodacolor,although not as
eye/experience compatible as other processes(as DuFay,for example) had cost
ore than other research projects and was chosen. Almost from that point,
color in photos,make-up,clothing,automobiles and,eventually television,
became over-saturated,over-brilliant and,to my mind "over-rated". Bearing
little resemblance to the subtle,muted colors of nature.Note: Only among
mating animals do we find such over-brilliance ocurring....as sex-attractents,
Don Morrill
>
>Vince Pitelka
>Appalachian Center for Crafts
>Tennessee Technological University
>1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
>Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
>615/597-5376
>Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
>615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
>http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Don & Isao Sanami Morrill
e-Mail:
Paul Taylor on sat 24 mar 01
Dear All.
Although I essentially agree with Mell. I have noticed that some glazes
tend to destroy form; particularly ones that do not break well on rims and
changes of surface line.
Now if I am putting a thick satin glaze on a pot I have to exaggerate. the
changes in the form allow for the quieting effect of the glaze. This is why
salt and ash glazes can work so well because the form itself orchestrates
the glaze.
Also I have noticed that some glazes like green celAons are better if
they are put on a pot that has the traditional strong combing or incised
decoration - the color is intensified by the frequent changes in glaze
thickness. This shows that some glazez only work on certain forms in certain
ways. So to reiterate mells words you can be trying to improve a glaze when
the form and or decorative surface is at fault.
To add to that when I first made my porcelain vases I was disappointed
until a painter friend said that they wanted more light and she took them
out side -they looked better; but when I took the photos on the black back
ground they looked even more as I had intended. Although I still believe in
essential truth that a good pot is a good pot regardless of enviroment I am
impressed how much difference context makes - display etc.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder if my new found dislike of shiny surfaces is doing me any good.
Any way - Mels letter is a reminder to me that my new found obsession
with surface treatment can be over done.
Regards from Paul Taylor
http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
Thirty years making pots and I still fell that one day I will get it right
and when I do I wont have to make any more and can happily go and get a real
job.
> From: mel jacobson
> Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:29:52 -0600
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: glaze vs. form
>
> this is an old teacher issue with me.
>
> many potters spend most of their adult lives
> looking for a great glaze to put on their pots.
>
> if they spent the same amount of time on the
> form and design of the pot, well, almost any glaze would do.
>
> a potter starts and is most involved with clay.
> clay clay clay. the form that comes from
> the hands and mind of that potter is what makes
> the pot. the glaze is that glass coating that covers
> that form. the form does not change in the kiln. the
> glaze does. you can alter the glaze, the form stays
> forever. god, i have so many awful pots, forms that
> are terrible, and a great `floating blue`. bad pots. nice glaze.
>
> the world at large may say `oh, i buy anything as long as it is blue`.
> but, you are judged by your fellow potters based on your forms, and
> the entire package.
>
> the form is the bones and flesh of the pot, the glaze is just
> the cosmetic makeup you apply.
>
> mr. uchida, (sexist statement by him, not me.) would often
> say:
>
> `glaze and decoration are like putting lots of makeup on an ugly
> whore, no matter how much you apply, she is still ugly.`
> he would then add, `make all of your pots pure white for a year.
> then we will see what kind of potter you are`.
> he did 90 percent of his pots, pure white. and they were damn nice.
> (in my opinion.)
>
> form, it is the most neglected part of ceramics.
> glaze, the most over billed part of ceramics.
>
> just as an example, i have a large tony clennell pot on my red
> chest in the living room. it has a simple, clear shino glaze. no
> decoration. that pot could be pure white, jet black, or not glazed.
> it would be a great pot. the form is perfect.
>
> dannon rhudy had a centerfold photo in cm of her pots,
> as they were drying. just her forms. it was one of the best
> pictures i have ever seen in cm.
>
> if you make great forms, you need just a few quality glazes
> that are safe, dependable and durable. then get busy with
> pots, they are made from clay.
>
> research is a part of all of us. just keep a balance.
> mel
>
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>
Rikki Gill on sat 24 mar 01
I want to jump right in here and say that there are many ways to be a
potter. I am one who loves all the process...I love to throw, etc but what
has kept me a potter for thirty years is my love of decoration. I consider
myself a painter working in the medium of clay. That doen't mean cows at
sunset, it means abstract patterns of color complimenting the form. Each
piece is different. I sometimes use 10 different glazes, oxides, slips if I
want a certain effect. It works if you have the patience to keep with it
till you get what you want. I hate to think that there is only one way to
do anything, and the advice," try it" is what I tell people asking for my
help.
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Taylor
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Saturday, March 24, 2001 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: glaze vs. form
>Dear All.
>
> Although I essentially agree with Mell. I have noticed that some glazes
>tend to destroy form; particularly ones that do not break well on rims and
>changes of surface line.
>
> Now if I am putting a thick satin glaze on a pot I have to exaggerate.
the
>changes in the form allow for the quieting effect of the glaze. This is
why
>salt and ash glazes can work so well because the form itself orchestrates
>the glaze.
>
> Also I have noticed that some glazes like green celAons are better if
>they are put on a pot that has the traditional strong combing or incised
>decoration - the color is intensified by the frequent changes in glaze
>thickness. This shows that some glazez only work on certain forms in
certain
>ways. So to reiterate mells words you can be trying to improve a glaze when
>the form and or decorative surface is at fault.
>
> To add to that when I first made my porcelain vases I was disappointed
>until a painter friend said that they wanted more light and she took them
>out side -they looked better; but when I took the photos on the black back
>ground they looked even more as I had intended. Although I still believe in
>essential truth that a good pot is a good pot regardless of enviroment I am
>impressed how much difference context makes - display etc.
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> I wonder if my new found dislike of shiny surfaces is doing me any
good.
>
> Any way - Mels letter is a reminder to me that my new found obsession
>with surface treatment can be over done.
>
>
> Regards from Paul Taylor
>http://www.anu.ie/westportpottery
>
>Thirty years making pots and I still fell that one day I will get it right
>and when I do I wont have to make any more and can happily go and get a
real
>job.
>
>
>
>> From: mel jacobson
>> Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 08:29:52 -0600
>> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Subject: glaze vs. form
>>
>> this is an old teacher issue with me.
>>
>> many potters spend most of their adult lives
>> looking for a great glaze to put on their pots.
>>
>> if they spent the same amount of time on the
>> form and design of the pot, well, almost any glaze would do.
>>
>> a potter starts and is most involved with clay.
>> clay clay clay. the form that comes from
>> the hands and mind of that potter is what makes
>> the pot. the glaze is that glass coating that covers
>> that form. the form does not change in the kiln. the
>> glaze does. you can alter the glaze, the form stays
>> forever. god, i have so many awful pots, forms that
>> are terrible, and a great `floating blue`. bad pots. nice glaze.
>>
>> the world at large may say `oh, i buy anything as long as it is blue`.
>> but, you are judged by your fellow potters based on your forms, and
>> the entire package.
>>
>> the form is the bones and flesh of the pot, the glaze is just
>> the cosmetic makeup you apply.
>>
>> mr. uchida, (sexist statement by him, not me.) would often
>> say:
>>
>> `glaze and decoration are like putting lots of makeup on an ugly
>> whore, no matter how much you apply, she is still ugly.`
>> he would then add, `make all of your pots pure white for a year.
>> then we will see what kind of potter you are`.
>> he did 90 percent of his pots, pure white. and they were damn nice.
>> (in my opinion.)
>>
>> form, it is the most neglected part of ceramics.
>> glaze, the most over billed part of ceramics.
>>
>> just as an example, i have a large tony clennell pot on my red
>> chest in the living room. it has a simple, clear shino glaze. no
>> decoration. that pot could be pure white, jet black, or not glazed.
>> it would be a great pot. the form is perfect.
>>
>> dannon rhudy had a centerfold photo in cm of her pots,
>> as they were drying. just her forms. it was one of the best
>> pictures i have ever seen in cm.
>>
>> if you make great forms, you need just a few quality glazes
>> that are safe, dependable and durable. then get busy with
>> pots, they are made from clay.
>>
>> research is a part of all of us. just keep a balance.
>> mel
>>
>> From:
>> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
>> web site: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
>>
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
iandol on sun 25 mar 01
Why, when I make a pot, do I percieve it as being at its best while it =
is still wet and glossy with slip? Why do I feel clay becomes lifeless =
as water evaporates and dead when it is dry?
Is a glaze a way of restoring the initial highlights and dark tones that =
define the form?
Just musing.
Regards,
Ivor
Khaimraj Seepersad on sun 25 mar 01
Hello to All ,
Ivor ,
it was explained to me , exactly as you have put it , years ago.
You will find that a glaze based on a Borate and stabilised with
Ti02 will do just that - wet the clay body and restore the refractive
index , in very thin coats.
AND if there is no heavy chemical interaction between body and
glaze , will remain fluid long enough to clear itself of all bubbles.
Also brightens the iron .
Here's to the super metal oxide Ti02 , it's what every glaze
maker lives for !!!!!
Khaimraj
-----Original Message-----
From: iandol
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: 25 March 2001 3:33
Subject: glaze vs. form
Why, when I make a pot, do I percieve it as being at its best while it is
still wet and glossy with slip? Why do I feel clay becomes lifeless as water
evaporates and dead when it is dry?
Is a glaze a way of restoring the initial highlights and dark tones that
define the form?
Just musing.
Regards,
Ivor
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Wesley C. Rolley on sun 25 mar 01
Reading this list with interest, not only in other ideas, but also in
understanding my own sense of aesthetic appreciation. I am strictly of the
belief that "form" is the basis for all 3D art. At its best, a teapot or a
vase is every bit as much of a sculpture as anything that Rodin or Henry
Moor created. Whatever I throw or build, I put on a table and view again
to evaluate it's form before it is glazed. I am lucky enough to have the
time to do this, since I do not depend on clay for a living (Thank you, IBM).
Which brings me to understand one of my biases. I do not like pots or
sculpture in which the "idea" replaces the "form" as the basis of the
visual experience. I believe that there are fundamental aesthetic concerns
with balance (symetric or asymetic), tension and release that should be
part of all 3D art. When they are not present, we may have a good toy, a
good teaching aid or a good utensil... but it is not good art.
I have a similar bias about works that are created to "release the artist's
innermost feelings" or to "explore one's inner nature". I recently
recieved the summer catalog from an art center in which the following
describes one of the classes: "Explore you inner spirit through abstract
approaches of expression." It is my opinion that this may produce good
therapy, but that it does not necessarily produce good art. Too often, we
mix these two concepts. That which "expresses" must also "impress." When
the expression is done through good form, the result may be powerful, but
without form, it is only a personal note.
Wes
-
Wes Rolley
"Happiness is to be fully engaged in the activity that you believe in and,
if you are very good at it, well that's a bonus." -- Henry Moore
http://www.refpub.com
africaunusual@MWEB.CO.ZA on sun 25 mar 01
I think you have hit the nail right on the head there, Ivor. To me,
nothing is uglier than a half dry pot. Even a completely dried one
looks a tad better. Pots that delighted me when just finished are so
damn depressing when half dry and then, sometimes, the glaze
makes them sing again.
Toni, South Africa, it's humid again, that taste of cool was good.
Send more!
On 25 Mar 2001, at 10:58, iandol wrote:
> Why, when I make a pot, do I percieve it as being at its best while it
> is still wet and glossy with slip? Why do I feel clay becomes lifeless
> as water evaporates and dead when it is dry? Is a glaze a way of
> restoring the initial highlights and dark tones that define the form?
> Just musing. Regards, Ivor
>
> ______________________________________________________________________
> ________ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
NLudd@AOL.COM on sun 25 mar 01
Ivor wrote:
> Why, when I make a pot, do I percieve it as being at its best while
it
> is still wet and glossy with slip? Why do I feel clay becomes lifeless
> as water evaporates and dead when it is dry? Is a glaze a way of
> restoring the initial highlights and dark tones that define the form?
My view exactly, Ivor.
When my wheel has just stopped turning and the newborn pot stands
still, the soft form quietly gleaming with that subtle but clear damp
valley smell, it pulsates with life for me in that moment more than any
other. After that everything is like, well... processing.
A good firing goes a way to recapture the pot's freshness and beauty.
A really good firing makes the pot sing out again its primal delight.
But whatever happens later to a pot, its moment of completion on the
wheel is the greatest part of its pleasure to me.
Bisque is such a visual and tactile letdown - depressing, to be blunt -
that I cut it out as much as I can as I turn to once-fire. Strength
aside, bisque has only one saving grace for me - when a pot looks dead
in the bisque state it's a good sign it'll be no flyer when glazed,
either. Makes it easier to take a hammer to it with no regrets!
best
Ned
Gayle Bair on sun 25 mar 01
Hi Wesley,
I think you hit the nail on the head when you said,
" I am strictly of the belief that "form" is the basis for all 3D art. At
its best, a teapot or a vase is every bit as much of a sculpture as anything
that Rodin or Henry Moore created."
In my opinion you also articulated the great Art VS Craft debate.
May I use your quote? I would like to print it out and display it.
Gayle Bair- Bainbridge Island WA USA
Wes wrote>
Whatever I throw or build, I put on a table and view again
to evaluate it's form before it is glazed. I am lucky enough to have the
time to do this, since I do not depend on clay for a living (Thank you,
IBM).
Which brings me to understand one of my biases. I do not like pots or
sculpture in which the "idea" replaces the "form" as the basis of the
visual experience. I believe that there are fundamental aesthetic concerns
with balance (symetric or asymetic), tension and release that should be
part of all 3D art. When they are not present, we may have a good toy, a
good teaching aid or a good utensil... but it is not good art.
I have a similar bias about works that are created to "release the artist's
innermost feelings" or to "explore one's inner nature". I recently
recieved the summer catalog from an art center in which the following
describes one of the classes: "Explore you inner spirit through abstract
approaches of expression." It is my opinion that this may produce good
therapy, but that it does not necessarily produce good art. Too often, we
mix these two concepts. That which "expresses" must also "impress." When
the expression is done through good form, the result may be powerful, but
without form, it is only a personal note.
Wes
-
Hank Murrow on sun 25 mar 01
Ivor mused;
>Why, when I make a pot, do I percieve it as being at its best while it is
>still wet and glossy with slip? Why do I feel clay becomes lifeless as
>water evaporates and dead when it is dry?
>Is a glaze a way of restoring the initial highlights and dark tones that
>define the form?
I think the wet pots have (for the potter) the sense of being still
mutable, while dry pots don't. It may go a ways in explaining the appeal of
salt glazing, which seems to restore the wet feeling without 'covering' the
pot.
Hank in Eugene
Jeanie on sun 25 mar 01
Thanks, Rikki, for jumping in there -Iagree there are many legitimate
entrees to the land of 'good pots'especially if you come at it from a
different discipline like painting or writing. For someone like Mel, or
Lee Love, steeped in the context of craft as a moral imperative{a la
Yanagi and the Mingei(sp?) it probebly seems self evident that the
'rightness' of any given piece proceeds from how well articulated is its
form, then how appropriate is its surface, how graceful its dance with
tradition, how suitably it fulfills its function. If it inhabits all
those aspects of its being with equal authority, then the pot seems to
speak with the voice of its maker. Does this seem right to you, Mel?
Or am I out to lunch? (a distinct possibility)
But what about those of us who are drawn to clay because it seems to
allow us to think in ways no other medium can? Some of us end up making
functional pots but its an uneasy alliance of tradition and will. I
think of myself as a potter, but often feel like a wolf (read'artist '
)in the mud spattered jeans of a potter. The thing about clay that has
captured my attention and my heart for thirty years is the ability of
clay to embody a narrative. The mark of a thumb, like the track of a
dinosaur, tells the story of someone's passage across the surface of the
clay. Its a sometimes big journy across a landscape of inches. Of
course the surface counts!
Gradually though, I began longing for an equally strong engagement with
form. But it was like the love affair of a bad poet with good poetry-I
longed for it without knowing what good form was. The breakthrough for
me came when, as I was trying to show my students how to see their own
work..."Look," I found myself saying, you're really working with two
media. Clay and light. You can slow light down with a swelling volume
like the belly of this jug,sothat the light seems to rub itself like a
cat along the surface, or you can speed light up with a crisp edge or a
sudden change of direction, packing it into a swift sliver of reflection
that invites your fingers along a rim." It was like listening to
someone else talk- one of those spooky moments when you get to see that
you know more than you knew you knew... at any rate I'm getting better
forms now by imagining the pots swelling like a baloon in the sun.
Guess its not the 'right' way but its my entree to form. It seems like
thinking about form had to come second for me. My goal is to make fewer
pots that seem like a fish wrapped in newspaper and more pots that
hopefully are a seamless entity that does not easily become a metaphor
for anything else. A pot that invites silence. Yeah, but I don't know
how to get out of the way.
Well, sorry for the ramble from a lurker, but the thread just gave my
brain a jump start. Thanks
Jeanie in PA. USA
Des Howard on mon 26 mar 01
Don
If we leave aside the purple, crimson, scarlet, pink, blue, yellow, orange,
lime green, red, (not a pastel in the lot) flowering plants on our land & the
intense green bodied, scarlet browed lorikeets, yellow & green bodied,
red capped rosellas, pink & grey galahs, bright scarlet/green king parrots
as only being part of the quest for mates/pollinators we might consider
other sources of non-subtle, non-muted colours in my chunk of nature,
the cliff face at the bottom of the valley that changes from deep green
& bright orange to cobalt blue & crimson as the sun lowered & for an
accent a high flying cockatoo catching the setting sun becoming a
glowing & screeching golden ball, the alternating bright yellow, snow white,
intense black bands of clay at the old ironstone mine next door,
the white clouds & bright blue sky overhead, the heat shimmer &
red/orange of our outback rock & sand & sunsets like David Fry's "flambe"
Beautiful! You betcha! Muted? Nah!
Thought: When looking into a pond, which catches your eye,
the colour of the mud underneath, or the colour of the sky reflected?
Des
http://fp.davepot.f9.co.uk/glazes.htm
Don wrote (in part):
> Almost from that point,
> color in photos,make-up,clothing,automobiles and,eventually television,
> became over-saturated,over-brilliant and,to my mind "over-rated". Bearing
> little resemblance to the subtle,muted colors of nature.Note: Only among
> mating animals do we find such over-brilliance ocurring....as sex-attractents,
> Don Morrill
--
Des & Jan Howard
Lue Pottery
LUE NSW 2850
Australia
Ph/Fax 02 6373 6419
http://www.luepottery.lisp.com.au
Jim Chandler on mon 26 mar 01
I want to describe a couple of pots I saw at the Sackler museum in
D.C.: unglazed red earth, fat, unsubtle shapes, low and wide, but
decorated with the most vivid, lively, fresh black designs, so immediate
that looking at them is like reaching back many thousand years into the
past and sitting at the side of the maker, seeing the hand at work.
Likewise the ancient Chinese ceramics at the Freer. Old, old pieces -
simple bowls beautifully covered with inscribed decoration. Practiced,
skilled, precise, eloquent decoration, enough to bring tears to your
eyes.
Maybe some subscribe to the Bauhaus aesthetic that decoration =
desecration, or however it goes, but not I.
Laura Chandler, Kensington MD
friedlover on mon 26 mar 01
In total agreement too. Why is it that the pot is so beautiful fresh and
seems to lose something later? The beauty and achievement of the fresh pot
fills one will achievement and dreams of it's finish, and is the most
uplifting time.
So many times there is disappointment with the finished product; other times
I've taken a ho hum pot and made it sparkle with the glaze.
I guess this is why it is such a challenging and humbling art.
Rhonda Fried
Rikki Gill on mon 26 mar 01
Personally I have always felt that you need a good solid basis in order to
throw away all the rules. That is first you hone your skills, and then you
set yourself free to do what the clay or any medium seems to tell you.
Matisse started by copying paintings in the Louvre. If the Bauhaus doesn't
like it, f--- the Bauhaus We are entitled to express ourselves any way we
want, the world is too big for arbitrary limits. It is also free to judge
our work any way it wants to. To some extent that is the thing that matters
most. Not in terms of money, but in terms of comprehention of what we are
trying to achieve. Rikki Gill hoping for good discussions in Charlotte
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Chandler
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Monday, March 26, 2001 7:06 AM
Subject: Re: glaze vs. form
>I want to describe a couple of pots I saw at the Sackler museum in
>D.C.: unglazed red earth, fat, unsubtle shapes, low and wide, but
>decorated with the most vivid, lively, fresh black designs, so immediate
>that looking at them is like reaching back many thousand years into the
>past and sitting at the side of the maker, seeing the hand at work.
>Likewise the ancient Chinese ceramics at the Freer. Old, old pieces -
>simple bowls beautifully covered with inscribed decoration. Practiced,
>skilled, precise, eloquent decoration, enough to bring tears to your
>eyes.
>Maybe some subscribe to the Bauhaus aesthetic that decoration =
>desecration, or however it goes, but not I.
>Laura Chandler, Kensington MD
>
>___________________________________________________________________________
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Frank Gaydos on mon 26 mar 01
Jim,
I just returned from the Sackler. Took lot's of pics and hope to mount them
on my web site. They actually don't care if you photograph or not.
The storage jar show was really great.
Frank Gaydos
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Chandler"
To:
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: glaze vs. form
> I want to describe a couple of pots I saw at the Sackler museum in
> D.C.: unglazed red earth, fat, unsubtle shapes, low and wide, but
> decorated with the most vivid, lively, fresh black designs, so immediate
> that looking at them is like reaching back many thousand years into the
> past and sitting at the side of the maker, seeing the hand at work.
> Likewise the ancient Chinese ceramics at the Freer. Old, old pieces -
> simple bowls beautifully covered with inscribed decoration. Practiced,
> skilled, precise, eloquent decoration, enough to bring tears to your
> eyes.
> Maybe some subscribe to the Bauhaus aesthetic that decoration =
> desecration, or however it goes, but not I.
> Laura Chandler, Kensington MD
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Earl Brunner on sun 1 apr 01
Sorry I'm responding to this a week or so after the initial posting, I
was off line for NCECA.
I feel sort of the same way, but would add that after the glaze fire
they (sometimes) come to life again!
iandol wrote:
> Why, when I make a pot, do I percieve it as being at its best while it is still wet and glossy with slip? Why do I feel clay becomes lifeless as water evaporates and dead when it is dry?
> Is a glaze a way of restoring the initial highlights and dark tones that define the form?
> Just musing.
> Regards,
> Ivor
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec
mailto:bruec@anv.net
PERRY STEARNS on sun 1 apr 01
I'd be interested to see Wm. Lucius include in his typology some of the =
strange stuff one sees in CM of late. Recently we were treated to a =
series of plates and platters, identified as such, whose 'working' =
surfaces are incised such that utility is expressly denied. Impossible =
to assure oneself that plate and platter were clean. Thus is mockery =
made of utility by "art."
iandol on mon 2 apr 01
Dear Earl,
Hope you had a good time at that conference.=20
A lot of folk seem to agree with us on this one but I have not read =
anything which would help to change the situation in those cases where =
glaze is of no assistance in redeeming the form of the pot.
Then I thought about what happens, from a technical aspect. Many things =
which are thrown vary in thickness. This may, in some cases, lead to =
differential shrinkage. Therefore, by the time the pot has gone through =
the bisque, or even just reached full dryness, its proportions will have =
changed. I think this is emphasised at the termination, the rim, =
especially if the clay has been attenuated to achieve additional height =
before the lip is rolled, or pulled in the case of a pitcher. It may =
also happen at the belly where stretching has been most forceful.
All the best,
Ivor, Redhill, South Australia
| |
|
