L. P. Skeen on wed 4 apr 01
Well, it was off topic in the first place but....;)
> Little children are SUPPOSED to be needy, we evolved that way.
Nobody said any different. However, when the homeschoolers are less mature,
and more needy than their public school peers, it's a problem in a group
setting w/ only one instructor. Again, I remind you I'm speaking from my
experience. I'm quite sure that YMMV.
>>> My culture considers independence to be sacred, to the point of
"teaching" babies to sleep alone at a few months old. I think
interdependence is pretty important, too.
OMG I just about snorted tea out my nose at this, not because I think it's
silly but because I know another clayarter who has what she calls a "family
bed". The entire family sleeps together, and I"m not kidding. I don't
think that's really the best idea, to put it mildly......
There's a reason houses have multiple bedrooms.....
> As for the three "R"s... regardless of education and credentials, most
adults can master elementary school subject matter, and past that, can rely
on a whole community of people, teachers, tutors, science labs, museums,
resources if need be.
The operative word in that sentence was CAN. Yes, they can. Too many
don't.
> There is some discrepancy with science scores, mainly in religion-based
homeschooling, because the national standards assume an evolution-based
curriculum, (and the big bang, and an environmental focus, and so on) and
faith-based instruction sees it differently.
Religion (ie: WAAAAAYY right wing xian) based homeschooling is the most
common around here, and those people can be absolutely INSANE. I live in
the buckle of the Bible belt, land of Jesse Helms, Jim Bakker and the former
PTL Club. :(
> Yours, Kelly in Ohio (typing with one eye bandaged after losing a pruning
battle to a mulberry tree. I need a bigger chainsaw... call me "one eyed
jill"...)
I went around w/ a bandage and eyepatch for awhile a few years ago when I
decided to use a wire wheel on my dremel to scrub off some glaze
drips.....Not fun. Depth perception is really a necessary thing, don'tcha
know! Take care of that eye. How old are your kids?
L
primalmommy@IVILLAGE.COM on wed 4 apr 01
....because I think it's getting off topic. First, I would not question a parent's instinct when it comes to deciding how much a child should be exposed to, and I respect parents' judgement, wherever they choose to draw the lines. Every child is different and nobody knows their needs and abilities better than a parent. Public education is by neccessity "one size fits all", and many kids -- I say this as a former teacher - are rushed to grow up / toughen up too fast, at the expense of creativity and real (as opposed to pretended) maturity. Believe me, they'll all end up swimming in "the real world" by adulthood.
Little children are SUPPOSED to be needy, we evolved that way. The idea that we have to throw our kids out into the harsh world to fend for themselves lest they be "wimps", is like saying that when your first seedlings sprout in the garden, you should pack them in ice, because winter's coming some day and they'd better get used to it. My culture considers independence to be sacred, to the point of "teaching" babies to sleep alone at a few months old. I think interdependence is pretty important, too.
My kids see a lot of stuff that would put them in the "unsheltered" category, (none of it on commercial TV, by the way) but my husband and I are always there to help them make sense of it, and make sure it's something they can handle at their age.
As for the three "R"s... regardless of education and credentials, most adults can master elementary school subject matter, and past that, can rely on a whole community of people, teachers, tutors, science labs, museums, resources if need be. My husband manages a science lab and has dozens of homeschool families creating programs out there. Judging by national test scores and the way colleges are clamoring to recruit homeschooled kids, we're ahead of the pack in those areas, anyway.
There is some discrepancy with science scores, mainly in religion-based homeschooling, because the national standards assume an evolution-based curriculum, (and the big bang, and an environmental focus, and so on) and faith-based instruction sees it differently. Personally, I consider other families' belief systems to be none of my - or the "gummint"s- business.
And keep in mind that some homeschooled kids are homeschooled BECAUSE they have special emotional needs, or are gifted or challenged, and not the other way around.
If anybody wants to continue this discussion, please email me off list! I love talking about teaching kids.
And by the way, my one-handed throwing student has experimented with opening forms using his handless arm; I have invented a little gadget with a bit of chamois on a "bow" of wire so he hcan finish his rims one handed. What a great kid! His mom sits near by trying to get him to quit giggling and be serious; I'm going to send her out for coffee next time.
Yours, Kelly in Ohio (typing with one eye bandaged after losing a pruning battle to a mulberry tree. I need a bigger chainsaw... call me "one eyed jill"...)
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David Hendley on thu 5 apr 01
The truth is, sorry teachers, that kids don't need to be 'schooled',
home or otherwise.
It's called 'unschooling', and if you care to read more about
it you can read anything by John Holt or 'Deschooling Society'
by Ivan Illich.
Children are naturally curious and excited to learn. All adults
need to do is treat them with respect, provide resources, and
get out of the way.
This premise is based on the assumption that a child is raised
by a loving, functional family. If you have screwed-up families,
you will have screwed-up kids, and this is why government schools
have to take over the job that is better done by parents.
As for sheltering kids, heck yes, I want to shelter my kids from
bad situations.
There is nothing more unnatural than segregating people on the
basis of age. It sets up an 'us versus them' mindset in children
and adults alike, and makes communication between the
generations stilted.
Yes, school is the perfect training ground for the 'real world' if you
are raising your children to be prison inmates. My 'real world'
involves no ringing bells, no asking permission to go to the restroom,
and no having to eat lunch precisely between 11:40 and 12:10.
'Unschooling' is not even remotely related to the philosophy of
the average 'homeschool' family you may know. Particularly
here in the south, most people homeschool for religious reasons,
and attempt to set up 'small schools', complete with grades and
graduation diplomas.
Homeschoolers attempt to shield their children from the world.
Unschoolers try to open up a world of possibilities.
As for results, it's no contest; kids who don't go to school do
better using any kind of measure you like. But its not a fair
comparison, because public schools get all the kids with uncaring
parents and poor home atmospheres.
Only the most concerned parents will take the time and effort
to educate their own children.
--
David Hendley
Maydelle, Texas
hendley@tyler.net
http://www.farmpots.com/
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:25 AM
Subject: final thoughts on homeschooling
| ...because I think it's getting off topic. First, I would not question a
parent's instinct when it comes to deciding how much a child should be
exposed to, and I respect parents' judgement, wherever they choose to draw
the lines. Every child is different and nobody knows their needs and
abilities better than a parent. Public education is by neccessity "one size
fits all", and many kids -- I say this as a former teacher - are rushed to
grow up / toughen up too fast, at the expense of creativity and real (as
opposed to pretended) maturity. Believe me, they'll all end up swimming in
"the real world" by adulthood.
|
| Little children are SUPPOSED to be needy, we evolved that way. The idea
that we have to throw our kids out into the harsh world to fend for
themselves lest they be "wimps", is like saying that when your first
seedlings sprout in the garden, you should pack them in ice, because
winter's coming some day and they'd better get used to it. My culture
considers independence to be sacred, to the point of "teaching" babies to
sleep alone at a few months old. I think interdependence is pretty
important, too.
|
| My kids see a lot of stuff that would put them in the "unsheltered"
category, (none of it on commercial TV, by the way) but my husband and I are
always there to help them make sense of it, and make sure it's something
they can handle at their age.
|
| As for the three "R"s... regardless of education and credentials, most
adults can master elementary school subject matter, and past that, can rely
on a whole community of people, teachers, tutors, science labs, museums,
resources if need be. My husband manages a science lab and has dozens of
homeschool families creating programs out there. Judging by national test
scores and the way colleges are clamoring to recruit homeschooled kids,
we're ahead of the pack in those areas, anyway.
|
| There is some discrepancy with science scores, mainly in religion-based
homeschooling, because the national standards assume an evolution-based
curriculum, (and the big bang, and an environmental focus, and so on) and
faith-based instruction sees it differently. Personally, I consider other
families' belief systems to be none of my - or the "gummint"s- business.
|
| And keep in mind that some homeschooled kids are homeschooled BECAUSE they
have special emotional needs, or are gifted or challenged, and not the other
way around.
|
| If anybody wants to continue this discussion, please email me off list! I
love talking about teaching kids.
|
| And by the way, my one-handed throwing student has experimented with
opening forms using his handless arm; I have invented a little gadget with a
bit of chamois on a "bow" of wire so he hcan finish his rims one handed.
What a great kid! His mom sits near by trying to get him to quit giggling
and be serious; I'm going to send her out for coffee next time.
|
| Yours, Kelly in Ohio (typing with one eye bandaged after losing a pruning
battle to a mulberry tree. I need a bigger chainsaw... call me "one eyed
jill"...)
|
| _________________________________________________________________
| iVillage.com: Solutions for Your Life
| Check out the most exciting women's community on the Web
| http://www.ivillage.com
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