Cindy Gatto on tue 3 apr 01
Dear Shula:
I have both the skutt and the l&l kilns. They are both
excellent kilns. But I must say I do prefer the l&l namely for the dyna glow
element holders. I feel they are superior to the skutt means of groove and
pinning the elements in. I have done elements in both types of kilns also and
as I say the l&l is superior in that fact, eventually the skutt grooves begin
to chip and break away where the l&l will last just about forever and even if
an element holder becomes damaged you can replace it. We fire consistently to
^6 and have no problem at all. W e do not use the electronic controllers --
call me old-fashioned I don't care I would rather have total control over the
kiln than let a machine do the work for me. I feel I have more control and
better control with the manual kiln sitter. In fact I use six kilns
consistently and have manual sitters on all of them and for no other reason
than that's our choice. As far as venting we use the Orton under kiln vents
the ones that are built into the kiln stand and have no problem at all. You
could use the Orton vent stand with the L&L kiln and have as far as I am
concerned a superior setup and it would solve your problem of venting. And as
far as the elements go we fire crystal glazes as well as porcelain and
stoneware and earthenware also and all we use are the standard elements. If
you think about it you really should change your elements at normal intervals
if you are firing consistently to get the optimal use of electricity and
consistent firings. We change ours about once a year whether they ""look
like"" they need them or not. I say look like because an element can look
fine but not be firing up to full potential. So I hope that my experiences
can be of some use to you. Good luck with your new kiln whatever choice you
make.
Sincerely:
Mark Petrin & Cindy Gatto
The Mudpit
228 Manhattan Ave.
Brooklyn NY 11206
718-218-9424
Mudpitnyc@aol.com
www.Mudpitnyc.com
PurpleLama@AOL.COM on tue 3 apr 01
I am debating whether to buy an L&L JD230- 3 inch or a Skutt KM1027 - 3 inch
electric kiln. Both kilns have electronic controls. Both kilns are available
with 3 inch brick. Both kilns supposedly fire to cone 10. I want that
capability, although I plan to fire mostly cone 5/6 stoneware and porcelain.
I looked through the archives and it appears that most people who have Skutt
kilns love them. I didn't find much said about the L&L. I thought I
remembered someone commenting about the dyna-glow ceramic element holders,
but I don't remember the essence of the comment and I couldn't find it in the
archives.
Price-wise, the L&L, even with shipping, is less than the Skutt. That is, the
L&L with upgraded (heavy duty) elements and upgraded (industrial)
thermocouples (one in each of the 3 sections) is less than the Skutt with
it's normal elements and 1 thermocouple. And, yes, so far Bennett's has the
best price. (no financial interest - just looking for the best price)
So, my questions are
- Does anyone have experience with both L&L and Skutt and if so, do you
prefer one over the other (and why)?
- Has anyone used an L&L with the electronic controls? What is your
experience - good, bad, or ugly?
- Is it worth paying hundreds of dollars more for APM elements? According to
the Skutt literature, I should have them if I want to fire crystal glazes or
consistently to cone 10. I won't fire consistently to cone 10, but I would
like to try my hand at crystalline glazes.
- Does anyone have experience with the L&L vent system? The motor for the
vent is on the wall rather than at the kiln. I see this as an advantage.
However, the pictures I've seen have the motor mounted at or above the level
of the top of the kiln. I don't know whether there is a reason for the set up
being depicted this way. I have not windows in my garage, but I do have vents
that I could use. However, these are slightly above floor level. I would have
to make a hole in the wall of my garage in order to mount the vent at the
level of the top of the kiln - something I don't want to do. I have a call in
to L&L to see whether having the motor at floor level would be detrimental.
Does anyone have any ideas/experience?
Thanks for your help.
Shula
in sunny Redondo Beach, California USA
tempy larew on wed 4 apr 01
Shula--I have an L&L JD230 with the electronic controller, heavy duty elements and
heavy duty thermocouples. All that being said, I love it. I have had very good
service from it and the technical folks at L&L will go out of their way to help if
you have questions. I called after hours one day and the person who answered the
phone actually got the President of the Company, I am really bad at remembering
names but I believe his name was Steve, talked with me and answered my questions
without hesitation.
The Dyna-Trol controller is much smarter than me (thank heavens) ;-) and Keeps the
top-to-bottom temperature within 20 degrees. It has me spoiled rotten, I have a
gas kiln and I don't want to fire it anymore!
I like the element holders they do seem to keep the elements more protected and I
don't believe they sag as much as some others kilns I have seen.
The heavy duty thermocouples are a must as are the heavy duty elements! I did not
originally buy the heavy duty ones and the temperature started to wander as the
thermocouples corroded.
I would buy a new one in a heartbeat--I wish they had a distributor on my side of
the country!! I bought mine new when I knew I was moving to Alaska! Feel free to
contact me off the list if you have any other questions.
Cheers--Tempy Larew
Two Dog Pottery
Palmer, Alaska
PurpleLama@AOL.COM wrote:
> I am debating whether to buy an L&L JD230- 3 inch or a Skutt KM1027 - 3 inch
> electric kiln. Both kilns have electronic controls. Both kilns are available
> with 3 inch brick. Both kilns supposedly fire to cone 10. I want that
> capability, although I plan to fire mostly cone 5/6 stoneware and porcelain.
>
> I looked through the archives and it appears that most people who have Skutt
> kilns love them. I didn't find much said about the L&L. I thought I
> remembered someone commenting about the dyna-glow ceramic element holders,
> but I don't remember the essence of the comment and I couldn't find it in the
> archives.
>
> Price-wise, the L&L, even with shipping, is less than the Skutt. That is, the
> L&L with upgraded (heavy duty) elements and upgraded (industrial)
> thermocouples (one in each of the 3 sections) is less than the Skutt with
> it's normal elements and 1 thermocouple. And, yes, so far Bennett's has the
> best price. (no financial interest - just looking for the best price)
>
> So, my questions are
> - Does anyone have experience with both L&L and Skutt and if so, do you
> prefer one over the other (and why)?
> - Has anyone used an L&L with the electronic controls? What is your
> experience - good, bad, or ugly?
> - Is it worth paying hundreds of dollars more for APM elements? According to
> the Skutt literature, I should have them if I want to fire crystal glazes or
> consistently to cone 10. I won't fire consistently to cone 10, but I would
> like to try my hand at crystalline glazes.
> - Does anyone have experience with the L&L vent system? The motor for the
> vent is on the wall rather than at the kiln. I see this as an advantage.
> However, the pictures I've seen have the motor mounted at or above the level
> of the top of the kiln. I don't know whether there is a reason for the set up
> being depicted this way. I have not windows in my garage, but I do have vents
> that I could use. However, these are slightly above floor level. I would have
> to make a hole in the wall of my garage in order to mount the vent at the
> level of the top of the kiln - something I don't want to do. I have a call in
> to L&L to see whether having the motor at floor level would be detrimental.
> Does anyone have any ideas/experience?
>
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Shula
> in sunny Redondo Beach, California USA
>
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John Hesselberth on wed 4 apr 01
Hi Shula,
I did have a Skutt; I bought an L&L when it was time for a bigger kiln.
Although they are both quality products, I give the edge to L&L. It is the
element holders and the vent system that make the difference. Look at any
20 year old L&L vs. a 20 year old Skutt. The brick element grooves are
usually all broken out on the Skutt with elements often drooping out of the
grooves. The L&L will still be in good shape. Changing elements on the
Skutt eventually results in broken bricks where the elements grooves are.
With respect to the vent system, the L&L is under negative pressure between
the kiln and the wall. The Skutt is under positive pressure. This means if
you have a pinhole leak in your vent, the Skutt pumps fumes back into the
room; the L&L still vents them out through the wall. The Skutt vent is also
bound to suffer more from heat being mounted underneath the kiln. Vertical
position of the vent on the wall with the L&L should make no difference. I
also have a 3 zone computer on my L&L. It has worked flawlessly and is the
only way I would buy a kiln of any brand these days. I believe nearly all
the computer controllers are made by the same outfit (Bartlett) with the
same technology (Orton). They just have different labels on the front.
Good luck with your decision.
Regards, John
Web site: http://www.frogpondpottery.com Email: john@frogpondpottery.com
"The life so short, the craft so long to learn." Chaucer's translation of
Hippocrates, 5th cent. B.C.
> So, my questions are
> - Does anyone have experience with both L&L and Skutt and if so, do you
> prefer one over the other (and why)?
> - Has anyone used an L&L with the electronic controls? What is your
> experience - good, bad, or ugly?
> - Is it worth paying hundreds of dollars more for APM elements? According to
> the Skutt literature, I should have them if I want to fire crystal glazes or
> consistently to cone 10. I won't fire consistently to cone 10, but I would
> like to try my hand at crystalline glazes.
> - Does anyone have experience with the L&L vent system? The motor for the
> vent is on the wall rather than at the kiln. I see this as an advantage.
william schran on thu 5 apr 01
Yes, I've worked with/on both. The element holders on the L&L make
changing elements much easier. Skutt requires element pins to hold
elements in place. I like the Skutt crimp connections between leads
and element pig tails, but all & all I'd go with L&L, IMHO.
Bill
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