Cindy Strnad on thu 5 apr 01
Nice post, Don.
I'm not one to flinch at telling a little lie when some excited beginner
asks me, "How do you like my (pot, picture, quilt, etc.)?" If I can't find
something nice to say about it (such as: I love the colors you've used
here--they bring the whole thing alive.), I will lie. Sorry, but that's the
way I feel about it. He hasn't asked for my critique, but for my praise and
encouragement, and for me to enjoy this small triumph with him.
Now if a learner asks for my opinion, and I sense that she truly wants my
opinion, I will give it--sandwiched in with as much praise and encouragement
as I can find. If the top walls are a good thickness, I will praise the top
walls and say, "See? You've almost got it. Now all you need to do is thin it
out a bit more down here." If the pot is light, but the form is wavery and
unsure, I will praise the well-thrown walls, and say, "See? You've almost
got it. I like this form, but do you see this little dip here and here? If
you do thus and such, you can create a nice continuous curve . . . "
It's not for me to judge whether her sense of form and proportion is good.
If she stays around good forms, she will eventually "catch" them. Or, as you
said, she'll "be Voulkos". (Sorry to the Voulkos fans out there, but his
forms don't really strike a chord with me, personally--hence the
comparison.)
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
artimater on thu 5 apr 01
While most of you guys were out playing with snakes....Ivor and =
myself were getting in to the topic of forms...I think we decided it was =
a purely personal thing...This judging of forms.....I think we decided =
good and bad form didn't exist except in the mind of one....
We did decide that technical considerations were the only =
reasonable targets for wits who would say, "I don't like the =
form"...Then PT threw the whole thing in the gutter and got me in more =
troubleHEHEHEHE
The person that makes fat bottoms might like fat bottoms at that =
stage of their development....It is likely that if they love clay and =
continue to work in clay they will decide they would rather make thin =
bottoms.....I don't think they will require someone's BIG FAT OPINION to =
get them to arrive at the decision....My daughter used to color what I =
thought were the ugliest pictures....Do you even think I EVER told her, =
"Damn that's ugly"??????....I have a fine tuned sense of =
aesthetics....but if I feel I do not care for something...I would not =
attempt to stop the maker from making it....I would be more likely to =
encourage them to make more....Then if they don't open their own eyes to =
my way of thinking ....they might end up named Volkous....Besides when =
ever some schmuck(HEHEHE) has told me, "I don't like your forms"....I =
have usually felt like letting them carry my boot form around for a =
while...It has, I'm sure, caused me to hang on to forms longer, rather =
than discard them from my bag of tricks....
If they were suffering from lack of technical knowledge and I could =
not help them out...I would be looking it up myself.
A valid useful critique would consist of technical help and lots of =
praise.....If praise seems foreign to you then your are really barking =
up the wrong tree....You snake handling dogs
"We schoolmasters must temper discretion with deceit" -Evelyn Waugh
Rush
BTW mel said he wanted me to sign posts with my name....Well Rush is my =
professional name, sort of like my brother puts Dr. in front of his =
name.....Don is what my personal friends call me...I guess I'll have to =
pick and choose on here
"I only indulge when I've seen a snake, so I keep a supply of =
indulgences and snakes handy"
http://www.geocities.com/artimator/index.html
artimator@earthlink.net
iandol on fri 6 apr 01
Dear Grasshopper,
I see you have come out batting for both of us. Good 'on yer Cobber.
One of the problems which some Critics have with Form is the lack of =
effect their criticism has on the producer of their target object. =
Regardless of what is said, those objects continue to be made. I always =
tell my students that people may like their work or dislike it. Call it =
beautiful or ugly. Praise it or hate it. Get those responses, you may =
just be making it as an artist for you are exciting emotions. Art makes =
people passionate. But if they are indifferent to your work, you are =
lost. Indifference was never spur to accomplish any task.
Best regards,
Ivor.
Gayle Bair on fri 6 apr 01
Spot on Cindy.
Any new student whether 5 or 95 wants an affirmation of what they are doing.
Frequently they have had a lot of bad experiences resulting in statements
like: "I cannot draw a straight line! I am not an artist! The only thing I
made in school was ..... and the teacher hated it".
As teachers, mentors, friends we need to find anything that is positive
about what is brought before us so the desire to create is encouraged not
stifled.
There is always something I can find right with very wrong pot and in the
slim chance I cannot I will validate the effort.
I have taken pots that have obvious faults to workshops offering critiques.
I have several motives the first, I like to see how the instructor handles
the critique, the second, to get a recommended solution.
At my first workshop/critique was given by a respected but anal college
tenured clay person. My piece was torn to shreds. I really liked the piece
and was pissed when he attacked the surface design. The form was good as was
the design. The real issue was my ability to throw a good pot! My clay
experience was in it's infancy and the issue should have been the amateurish
foot ring and lid. Nothing was said of them and an opportunity to teach what
a good foot ring and well fitting lid does for a pot was completely lost. I
recognized the college edubabble and fired it back. Been there done that....
really hated it!
The piece sold the first day on the shelf.
By the way, Mel passed my test with flying colors. His critique was
masterful, educational, enlightening as was his workshop. Thanks.
Gayle Bair- Bainbridge Island WA USA and I am not related to nor do I have
stock in Mel.
Cindy wrote>
Nice post, Don.
I'm not one to flinch at telling a little lie when some excited beginner
asks me, "How do you like my (pot, picture, quilt, etc.)?" If I can't find
something nice to say about it (such as: I love the colors you've used
here--they bring the whole thing alive.), I will lie. Sorry, but that's the
way I feel about it. He hasn't asked for my critique, but for my praise and
encouragement, and for me to enjoy this small triumph with him.
Now if a learner asks for my opinion, and I sense that she truly wants my
opinion, I will give it--sandwiched in with as much praise and encouragement
as I can find. If the top walls are a good thickness, I will praise the top
walls and say, "See? You've almost got it. Now all you need to do is thin it
out a bit more down here." If the pot is light, but the form is wavery and
unsure, I will praise the well-thrown walls, and say, "See? You've almost
got it. I like this form, but do you see this little dip here and here? If
you do thus and such, you can create a nice continuous curve . . . "
It's not for me to judge whether her sense of form and proportion is good.
If she stays around good forms, she will eventually "catch" them. Or, as you
said, she'll "be Voulkos". (Sorry to the Voulkos fans out there, but his
forms don't really strike a chord with me, personally--hence the
comparison.)
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
Gary Cox on sat 7 apr 01
My first question, is "did you like the making of it..." I do two-dimensional art
and it's more relevent when its so easy for a line to change. A pot seems so
terribly important once its made. My old teacher, Bruce Wild, in Eugene had a
habit of squashing the best pots from his best potters. The point is, its not the
pot, its the "making."
Gayle Bair wrote:
> Spot on Cindy.
>
> Any new student whether 5 or 95 wants an affirmation of what they are doing.
> Frequently they have had a lot of bad experiences resulting in statements
> like: "I cannot draw a straight line! I am not an artist! The only thing I
> made in school was ..... and the teacher hated it".
>
> As teachers, mentors, friends we need to find anything that is positive
> about what is brought before us so the desire to create is encouraged not
> stifled.
>
> There is always something I can find right with very wrong pot and in the
> slim chance I cannot I will validate the effort.
>
> I have taken pots that have obvious faults to workshops offering critiques.
> I have several motives the first, I like to see how the instructor handles
> the critique, the second, to get a recommended solution.
>
> At my first workshop/critique was given by a respected but anal college
> tenured clay person. My piece was torn to shreds. I really liked the piece
> and was pissed when he attacked the surface design. The form was good as was
> the design. The real issue was my ability to throw a good pot! My clay
> experience was in it's infancy and the issue should have been the amateurish
> foot ring and lid. Nothing was said of them and an opportunity to teach what
> a good foot ring and well fitting lid does for a pot was completely lost. I
> recognized the college edubabble and fired it back. Been there done that....
> really hated it!
>
> The piece sold the first day on the shelf.
>
> By the way, Mel passed my test with flying colors. His critique was
> masterful, educational, enlightening as was his workshop. Thanks.
>
> Gayle Bair- Bainbridge Island WA USA and I am not related to nor do I have
> stock in Mel.
>
> Cindy wrote>
> Nice post, Don.
>
> I'm not one to flinch at telling a little lie when some excited beginner
> asks me, "How do you like my (pot, picture, quilt, etc.)?" If I can't find
> something nice to say about it (such as: I love the colors you've used
> here--they bring the whole thing alive.), I will lie. Sorry, but that's the
> way I feel about it. He hasn't asked for my critique, but for my praise and
> encouragement, and for me to enjoy this small triumph with him.
>
> Now if a learner asks for my opinion, and I sense that she truly wants my
> opinion, I will give it--sandwiched in with as much praise and encouragement
> as I can find. If the top walls are a good thickness, I will praise the top
> walls and say, "See? You've almost got it. Now all you need to do is thin it
> out a bit more down here." If the pot is light, but the form is wavery and
> unsure, I will praise the well-thrown walls, and say, "See? You've almost
> got it. I like this form, but do you see this little dip here and here? If
> you do thus and such, you can create a nice continuous curve . . . "
>
> It's not for me to judge whether her sense of form and proportion is good.
> If she stays around good forms, she will eventually "catch" them. Or, as you
> said, she'll "be Voulkos". (Sorry to the Voulkos fans out there, but his
> forms don't really strike a chord with me, personally--hence the
> comparison.)
>
> Cindy Strnad
> Earthen Vessels Pottery
> RR 1, Box 51
> Custer, SD 57730
> USA
> earthenv@gwtc.net
> http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Marcia Selsor on sat 7 apr 01
Gayle Bair wrote:
>
> Spot on Cindy.
>
> Any new student whether 5 or 95 wants an affirmation of what they are doing.
> Frequently they have had a lot of bad experiences resulting in statements
> like: "I cannot draw a straight line! I am not an artist! The only thing I
> made in school was ..... and the teacher hated it".
>snip
>
> By the way, Mel passed my test with flying colors. His critique was
> masterful, educational, enlightening as was his workshop. Thanks.
>Dear Gayle, Don and Cindy,
when my co-op partner was in thrid grade and painted a black tulip, the
teacher crished her creativity by scolding her and saying there is no
such thing as a blaxk tulip. She regained her creative energy this past
decade in my pottery classes. She is a very creative lady and good
potter. I have black tulips growing in my yard. We have named our co-op,
"The Black Tulip Potters' Group" as a reminder of how some teachers and
disastrous educators.
Nice posts to all of you.
Marcia Selsor in Montana
> Gayle Bair- Bainbridge Island WA USA and I am not related to nor do I have
> stock in Mel.
>
> Cindy wrote>
> Nice post, Don.
>
> I'm not one to flinch at telling a little lie when some excited beginner
> asks me, "How do you like my (pot, picture, quilt, etc.)?" If I can't find
> something nice to say about it (such as: I love the colors you've used
> here--they bring the whole thing alive.), I will lie.
and snip,
> Cindy Strnad
> Earthen Vessels Pottery
> RR 1, Box 51
> Custer, SD 57730
> USA
> earthenv@gwtc.net
> http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Marcia Selsor
selsor@imt.net
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Tuscany2001.html
http://www.imt.net/~mjbmls/Gallery.html
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