jackmm on sun 15 apr 01
Yeah, you're probably poisoning the entire city. mj
-----Original Message-----
From: craig clark
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Sunday, April 15, 2001 4:41 PM
Subject: Question about fiber hazards with kaolin wools
After reading the post mentioning that using fiberfax, or any other
material like it in the studio, may require that the air be frequently
tested, I placed my plan to insulate between the rings and under the lids=
of
my aging Skutts on hold. The kilns are located in a small room attached t=
o
the studio, but for all practical purposes are a part of the studio.
Just how much of a hazard does the dust from the fiberfax pose? Do we
know anything now that we didn't know ten years ago? Would a ridgidizer
solve any potential problem? How about the outdoor use of fiberfax in sma=
ll
, portable raku kilns, especially for my students or kids? I hope I havn'=
t
been setting people up for respiratory problems. I was, and still am, und=
er
the impression that as long as the proper precautions are taken with the
material when a kiln is being built or relined then respiratory risks are
minimal.
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, TX 77008
(713) 861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
_________________________________________________________________________=
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craig clark on sun 15 apr 01
After reading the post mentioning that using fiberfax, or any other =
material like it in the studio, may require that the air be frequently =
tested, I placed my plan to insulate between the rings and under the =
lids of my aging Skutts on hold. The kilns are located in a small room =
attached to the studio, but for all practical purposes are a part of the =
studio.=20
Just how much of a hazard does the dust from the fiberfax pose? Do =
we know anything now that we didn't know ten years ago? Would a =
ridgidizer solve any potential problem? How about the outdoor use of =
fiberfax in small , portable raku kilns, especially for my students or =
kids? I hope I havn't been setting people up for respiratory problems. I =
was, and still am, under the impression that as long as the proper =
precautions are taken with the material when a kiln is being built or =
relined then respiratory risks are minimal.
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 st
Houston, TX 77008
(713) 861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
Edouard Bastarache on sun 15 apr 01
Hello Craig,
As Mel said this morning, wear a decent dusk mask when
you handle man-made fibers and use ITC.
Also read the following text on man-made fibers:
"The ban on the use of asbestos resulted in a larger and larger use of
substitution
materials in many industrial processes and in particular the use of man-m=
ade
fibers.
The main part of known health effects comes from data collected among
workers
of industries producing these fibers, where the levels of exposure were l=
ow,
lower
than those encountered in many professional situations by the finished
product users.
Even if the relationship to the exposure to rockwool fibers/slag wool fib=
ers
is not clearly established, the observation of an excess of bronchopulmon=
ary
cancers among workmen producing these fibres must prompt us to be vigilan=
t
and to control levels of exposure to these fibers in the work environment.
The SMRs for bronchopulmonary cancer are lower among workmen of glass woo=
l
production than among workmen of rockwool/slag wool production.
Taking into account data observed in experiments (excess of tumours) and
preliminary information obtained from man (suspicion of an excess of beni=
gn
pleural pathologies, and of respiratory functional impairment of the
obstructive type),
an attitude even more careful is essential with respect to refractory
ceramic fibres.
These fibres were classified in category 2 (similar substances to
cancerogenic
substances for man) by the European Communities.
Nothing currently makes it possible to affirm that a risk of nonmalignant
respiratory
pathology exists for man with rock, glass,and slag fibers. Nevertheless,
experimental
data showed a real pathogenic effect for levels of exposure close to thos=
e
producing thesame effects with asbestos. Certain fibers, as some made fro=
m
glass, appear sufficiently soluble to have no irreversible effects.
The absence of sufficient experience must prompt us to pursue epidemiolog=
ic
and
experimental studies, and to introduce an effective prevention policy."
Later,
Edouard Bastarache M.D. (Occupational & Environmental Medicine)
Author of =AB Substitutions for Raw Ceramic Materials =BB
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
Tracy
Qu=E9bec
Canada
References :
1-Effets sur la sant=E9 des fibres min=E9rales artificielles;Toxicologie,
Pathologie Professionnelle, Encyclop=E9die M=E9dico-Chirurgicale, Paris,=
2000.
2-Les maladies respiratoires d=92origine professionnelle, Martinet, Antoi=
ne et
Petiet, Paris, 1999.
craig clark on mon 16 apr 01
Edouard, thankyou very much for the informative response. I agree wit=
h
Mel and have been using a mask or respirator whenever I've handled cerami=
c
fiber during either lining or relining of a kiln. I also where long pants=
,
socks, shoes, a fully bottoned long sleeve shirt which I remove after the
work is completed, a bandana and goggles. In short I look like a bloody
spaceman when I'm working with the stuff.
I was just a little offput, as is evidenced in my last quasi-rant, th=
at
there didn't seem to be much info forthcoming of an epidemilogical/clinic=
al
type. The references sited should be great, though I'll need a bit of hel=
p
translating them if they are in French.
It has been stated that the fibers don't "fly around" unless they are
somehow disturbed or abraided. How do we know this? It has been my belief
for a number of years but I find that I'm questioning how it is that I
decided this. Has anyone actually done any analysis of the atomosphere in
and around ceramic fiber kilns during use?
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 St.
Houston, TX 77008
(713) 861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Edouard Bastarache
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Sunday, April 15, 2001 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: Question about fiber hazards with kaolin wools
>Hello Craig,
>
>
>As Mel said this morning, wear a decent dusk mask when
>you handle man-made fibers and use ITC.
>
>
>Also read the following text on man-made fibers:
>
>
>"The ban on the use of asbestos resulted in a larger and larger use of
>substitution
>materials in many industrial processes and in particular the use of
man-made
>fibers.
>The main part of known health effects comes from data collected among
>workers
>of industries producing these fibers, where the levels of exposure were
low,
>lower
>than those encountered in many professional situations by the finished
>product users.
>Even if the relationship to the exposure to rockwool fibers/slag wool
fibers
>is not clearly established, the observation of an excess of
bronchopulmonary
>cancers among workmen producing these fibres must prompt us to be vigila=
nt
>and to control levels of exposure to these fibers in the work environmen=
t.
>The SMRs for bronchopulmonary cancer are lower among workmen of glass wo=
ol
>production than among workmen of rockwool/slag wool production.
>
>Taking into account data observed in experiments (excess of tumours) and
>preliminary information obtained from man (suspicion of an excess of ben=
ign
>pleural pathologies, and of respiratory functional impairment of the
>obstructive type),
>an attitude even more careful is essential with respect to refractory
>ceramic fibres.
>These fibres were classified in category 2 (similar substances to
>cancerogenic
>substances for man) by the European Communities.
>
>Nothing currently makes it possible to affirm that a risk of nonmalignan=
t
>respiratory
>pathology exists for man with rock, glass,and slag fibers. Nevertheless,
>experimental
>data showed a real pathogenic effect for levels of exposure close to tho=
se
>producing thesame effects with asbestos. Certain fibers, as some made fr=
om
>glass, appear sufficiently soluble to have no irreversible effects.
>
>The absence of sufficient experience must prompt us to pursue epidemiolo=
gic
>and
>experimental studies, and to introduce an effective prevention policy."
>
>
>
>Later,
>
>
>
>Edouard Bastarache M.D. (Occupational & Environmental Medicine)
>Author of =AB Substitutions for Raw Ceramic Materials =BB
>edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
>http://www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
>Tracy
>Qu=E9bec
>Canada
>
>
>References :
>
>1-Effets sur la sant=E9 des fibres min=E9rales artificielles;Toxicologie=
,
>Pathologie Professionnelle, Encyclop=E9die M=E9dico-Chirurgicale, Paris=
, 2000.
>
>2-Les maladies respiratoires d=92origine professionnelle, Martinet, Anto=
ine
et
>Petiet, Paris, 1999.
>
>________________________________________________________________________=
___
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Edouard Bastarache on tue 17 apr 01
Hello Craig,
what I did in my first post was to read up-to-date chapters
of french books in Occupational Medicine( as you probably
know, Quebec is 80% french, and in our typical small french
industrial region I have not spoken english once in 30 years
to practice my trade. So, it is most important to have
access to french literature to convey information to french-
speaking workers who are the first to be concerned).
By the way, I have not spoken english on a regular basis
for nearly 40 years. I am most surprised I can still converse in
your language).
The authors of these chapters did medical literature reviews,
it means they read a great number of scientific medical articles
available in any language, including many european languages.
They are also known specialists in this field in Europe.
If you go back to the references at the bottom of my first
post you will see that the information was printed in 1999
and 2000, that is why I said it was up-to-date information.
Air-sampling for these fibers have been done in many plants
that produce them. As for sampling in a pottery studio, I have
never heard of any . But, I think it has been done in pottery
factories. I will check that and come back to you.
Later,
Edouard Bastarache
Irr=E9ductible Qu=E9becois
Sorel-Tracy
Dans / In "La Belle Province"
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
----- Message d'origine -----
De : craig clark
=C0 :
Envoy=E9 : 16 avril, 2001 20:40
Objet : Re: Question about fiber hazards with kaolin wools
Edouard, thankyou very much for the informative response. I agree wit=
h
Mel and have been using a mask or respirator whenever I've handled cerami=
c
fiber during either lining or relining of a kiln. I also where long pants=
,
socks, shoes, a fully bottoned long sleeve shirt which I remove after the
work is completed, a bandana and goggles. In short I look like a bloody
spaceman when I'm working with the stuff.
I was just a little offput, as is evidenced in my last quasi-rant, th=
at
there didn't seem to be much info forthcoming of an epidemilogical/clinic=
al
type. The references sited should be great, though I'll need a bit of hel=
p
translating them if they are in French.
It has been stated that the fibers don't "fly around" unless they are
somehow disturbed or abraided. How do we know this? It has been my belief
for a number of years but I find that I'm questioning how it is that I
decided this. Has anyone actually done any analysis of the atomosphere in
and around ceramic fiber kilns during use?
Craig Dunn Clark
619 East 11 1/2 St.
Houston, TX 77008
(713) 861-2083
mudman@hal-pc.org
-----Original Message-----
From: Edouard Bastarache
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Sunday, April 15, 2001 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: Question about fiber hazards with kaolin wools
>Hello Craig,
>
>
>As Mel said this morning, wear a decent dusk mask when
>you handle man-made fibers and use ITC.
>
>
>Also read the following text on man-made fibers:
>
>
>"The ban on the use of asbestos resulted in a larger and larger use of
>substitution
>materials in many industrial processes and in particular the use of
man-made
>fibers.
>The main part of known health effects comes from data collected among
>workers
>of industries producing these fibers, where the levels of exposure were
low,
>lower
>than those encountered in many professional situations by the finished
>product users.
>Even if the relationship to the exposure to rockwool fibers/slag wool
fibers
>is not clearly established, the observation of an excess of
bronchopulmonary
>cancers among workmen producing these fibres must prompt us to be vigila=
nt
>and to control levels of exposure to these fibers in the work environmen=
t.
>The SMRs for bronchopulmonary cancer are lower among workmen of glass wo=
ol
>production than among workmen of rockwool/slag wool production.
>
>Taking into account data observed in experiments (excess of tumours) and
>preliminary information obtained from man (suspicion of an excess of ben=
ign
>pleural pathologies, and of respiratory functional impairment of the
>obstructive type),
>an attitude even more careful is essential with respect to refractory
>ceramic fibres.
>These fibres were classified in category 2 (similar substances to
>cancerogenic
>substances for man) by the European Communities.
>
>Nothing currently makes it possible to affirm that a risk of nonmalignan=
t
>respiratory
>pathology exists for man with rock, glass,and slag fibers. Nevertheless,
>experimental
>data showed a real pathogenic effect for levels of exposure close to tho=
se
>producing thesame effects with asbestos. Certain fibers, as some made fr=
om
>glass, appear sufficiently soluble to have no irreversible effects.
>
>The absence of sufficient experience must prompt us to pursue epidemiolo=
gic
>and
>experimental studies, and to introduce an effective prevention policy."
>
>
>
>Later,
>
>
>
>Edouard Bastarache M.D. (Occupational & Environmental Medicine)
>Author of =AB Substitutions for Raw Ceramic Materials =BB
>edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
>http://www.sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
>Tracy
>Qu=E9bec
>Canada
>
>
>References :
>
>1-Effets sur la sant=E9 des fibres min=E9rales artificielles;Toxicologie=
,
>Pathologie Professionnelle, Encyclop=E9die M=E9dico-Chirurgicale, Paris=
, 2000.
>
>2-Les maladies respiratoires d=92origine professionnelle, Martinet, Anto=
ine
et
>Petiet, Paris, 1999.
>
>________________________________________________________________________=
___
___
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
_________________________________________________________________________=
___
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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