Veena Raghavan on wed 25 apr 01
Message text written by Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>Yes, I do throw dry. That is, after the centering and initial
couple of pulls I dry my hands and use no water until the final touches o=
n
the rim. This method works for me and I certainly teach it in my classroo=
m
and demonstrate it at my workshops but it is not for every pot, in every
situation nor is it for everyone! Learning new and different methods of
working is fun, revealing, and exciting but often the answer to a problem
is
not a new technique but rather getting better at the old one!
Steven Branfman
The Potters Shop<
Having just attended one of Steven Branfman's workshops (it was held at t=
he
Lee Arts Center in Arlington VA), I would like to say that watching him
throwing his beautiful round narrow-necked bottle shapes with his dry
throwing method was fascinating and a pleasure to watch. I missed the las=
t
afternoon of the workshop, as I had to leave for England, but what I did
get to see was a wonderful and very educational experience. I was dying t=
o
get to my wheel the very next day to experiment, but that will have to
wait. Of course, Steven is famous for his Raku work, and his glazing and
firing methods are also wonderful. I came away with a far better
understanding of the process. If Steven is ever giving a workshop near yo=
u,
don't miss it!
All the best.
Veena
Veena Raghavan
75124.2520@compuserve.com
John Rodgers on mon 24 may 04
Bonnie,
Basic H is still available. I just bought a quart of it today. It is
available in pints, quarts, gallons, and 5 gallon containers. A quart
cost me $10.
Never tried it before, but as a result of your comments, I thought I
would give it a try. I will post my results to Clayart.
Regards,
John Rodgers
Chelsea, AL
Bonnie Staffel on mon 24 may 04
Hi Clayarters,
This material that Michael is using may be different than what I used back
in about the 80's. I had a Shaklee distributor friend who was a new potter.
He was a student at the community college in Traverse City. He added a few
drops of Basic H to his throwing water and was whizzing these giant pots out
like no problem. I tried it too and almost forgot about the material until
this post. Wonder if Shaklee is still selling it. Another potter friend
gave me a whole gallon of it. I don't remember where I packed it when I
moved. And you all know how I love to throw those giant pots. Basic H is a
wetting agent mostly used by farmers to drain fields of standing water. It
is supposed to be environmentally good.
Happy potting,
Bonnie Staffel
http://pws.chartermi.net/~bstaffel/default.html
http://www.vasefinder.com/
Veena Raghavan on tue 25 may 04
John, =
Could you let us know where this is available. I would love to try it too=
.
Thanks in advance.
Veena
>Basic H is still available. I just bought a quart of it today. It is
available in pints, quarts, gallons, and 5 gallon containers. A quart
cost me $10.<
Veena Raghavan
75124.2520@compuserve.com
dayton grant on wed 17 feb 10
Hi, I'm testing some new clay if anyone's interested,
http://www.youtube.com/user/PotterySchoolDotCom#p/u/5/L2tmN88UuLM
http://www.youtube.com/user/PotterySchoolDotCom#p/u/4/5aej2GxfYPw
http://www.youtube.com/user/PotterySchoolDotCom#p/u/3/pKKtBTadKg0
http://www.youtube.com/user/PotterySchoolDotCom#p/u/2/VQjo3_hM-9I
http://www.youtube.com/user/PotterySchoolDotCom#p/u/0/b7VCf94hlr8
http://www.youtube.com/user/PotterySchoolDotCom#p/u/1/D7AqNNULg0A
thanx for looking
D.
Edouard Bastarache on wed 21 apr 10
Tony,
I agree with you.
The clay used in this demonstration made
40 years ago was very soft, plus I had gotten
loaded the night before, damn Xmas party!!!,
maybe that was the reason I choose a soft clay.
You know "Le lendemain de la veille" =3D
"The day after the night, as translated by one
of my anglophone buddies :
http://retrodemonstration.blogspot.com/
Gis,
Edouard Bastarache
Spertesperantisto
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
http://edouardbastarache.blogspot.com/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/30058682@N00/
http://blogsalbertbastarache.blogspot.com/
http://cerampeintures.blogspot.com/
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/index.htm
----- Original Message -----
From: "tony clennell"
To: "Clayart"
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 8:31 AM
Subject: Dry throwing
> Dry throwing seems to me like having dry sex "painfully slow'! As
> seems to happen with age everything dries out and lubrication seems
> like a damn good answer. In fact I maintain the older you get the
> softer you will want your clay. The best lubrication is copius amounts
> of water. I never could figure people bragging about not using water.
> I guess if you live in the Sahara desert it is a wise move but I live
> by The Great Lakes and water is abundant. If you throw a pot for 30
> minutes you are playing with it. Issac Button's 28 lb cider jugs in 3
> miinutes- now that's a thrower! My clay is soft and if you fool with
> it that long it will get tired, collapse and go to sleep. Like me my
> clay is good for a fast and furious 3-5 minutes.
> My motto- soft clay, slow wheel!
> Cheers,
> Tony
> In the words of George Burns " Having sex at age 90 is like shooting
> pool with a rope!"
>
> --
> http://sourcherrypottery.com
> http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
>
tony clennell on wed 21 apr 10
Dry throwing seems to me like having dry sex "painfully slow'! As
seems to happen with age everything dries out and lubrication seems
like a damn good answer. In fact I maintain the older you get the
softer you will want your clay. The best lubrication is copius amounts
of water. I never could figure people bragging about not using water.
I guess if you live in the Sahara desert it is a wise move but I live
by The Great Lakes and water is abundant. If you throw a pot for 30
minutes you are playing with it. Issac Button's 28 lb cider jugs in 3
miinutes- now that's a thrower! My clay is soft and if you fool with
it that long it will get tired, collapse and go to sleep. Like me my
clay is good for a fast and furious 3-5 minutes.
My motto- soft clay, slow wheel!
Cheers,
Tony
In the words of George Burns " Having sex at age 90 is like shooting
pool with a rope!"
--
http://sourcherrypottery.com
http://smokieclennell.blogspot.com
Elizabeth Priddy on thu 22 apr 10
The advantage of throwing dry is that you can throw taller and thinner. Th=
e disadvantage is that it takes extra time and you really need to throw wit=
h ribs to do it and a lot of potters are not taught to do this.
The old solution used in china for throwing porcelain was to throw dry with=
ribs and to rely on wheel trimming as well as throwing in the same session=
.
The modern solution to this problem is flame throwing, using a torch to dry=
the clay during the initial throwing. You alternate throwing and drying w=
ith the torch, essentially getting the best of both worlds. You start with=
wet clay and get it started, then torch and throw using ribs more as you p=
rogress to your final shape. In the end you are using ribs exclusively and=
are dry throwing. This technique is most familiar in the form of pots wit=
h a cracked surface. This is what happens when you dry it too much on purp=
ose. When you dry it just enough to keep it from falling or buckling, it w=
ill still thin with no problem.
The old way, to start with relatively hard clay and only use ribs (the reas=
on for this is that the hands will stick where the soaked wooden rib (soaki=
ng the rib is all the lubrication you need) will not), is no longer necessa=
ry.
- ePriddy
Elizabeth Priddy
Beaufort, NC - USA
http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
Eric Hansen on thu 22 apr 10
right, but I also noticed in the video the pile of failed pieces -
indicating a mortality rate with such wares. A good rule of thumb is that i=
f
a pot will stand intact while wet it will stand intact in the kiln at high
temperature when the clay again is semi-liquid. Maybe not always if the cla=
y
is low fire or if high in iron in reduction - but as a general rule. This
applies to hand built forms as well.
h a n s e n
On Thu, Apr 22, 2010 at 11:44 AM, Elizabeth Priddy wr=
ote:
> The advantage of throwing dry is that you can throw taller and thinner.
> The disadvantage is that it takes extra time and you really need to thro=
w
> with ribs to do it and a lot of potters are not taught to do this.
>
> The old solution used in china for throwing porcelain was to throw dry wi=
th
> ribs and to rely on wheel trimming as well as throwing in the same sessio=
n.
>
> The modern solution to this problem is flame throwing, using a torch to d=
ry
> the clay during the initial throwing. You alternate throwing and drying
> with the torch, essentially getting the best of both worlds. You start w=
ith
> wet clay and get it started, then torch and throw using ribs more as you
> progress to your final shape. In the end you are using ribs exclusively =
and
> are dry throwing. This technique is most familiar in the form of pots wi=
th
> a cracked surface. This is what happens when you dry it too much on
> purpose. When you dry it just enough to keep it from falling or buckling=
,
> it will still thin with no problem.
>
> The old way, to start with relatively hard clay and only use ribs (the
> reason for this is that the hands will stick where the soaked wooden rib
> (soaking the rib is all the lubrication you need) will not), is no longer
> necessary.
>
>
>
> - ePriddy
>
> Elizabeth Priddy
> Beaufort, NC - USA
>
> http://www.elizabethpriddy.com
>
Bonnie Staffel on fri 23 apr 10
My two cents about dry throwing as I have mentioned before is that I had =
=3D
a
clay that responded really great. The clay was also well aged. I do use =3D
a
little water when centering and opening the ball, but after I get the =3D
wall
up, I do all shaping with no water unless I am closing in to make a =3D
bottle
form. The less water used, the stronger the pot is so as to really bulge =
=3D
it
outwards without any support near the bottom of the pot. The clay is =3D
more
easily compressed when there is no water involved, giving you a stronger =
=3D
pot
in that respect. When I worked on making very tall wide pots with =3D
throwing
coils, I was very surprised at how thin I was able to throw and actually
lift the pot when finished with ease as it was so light. I also did not =3D
have
to trim the bottom.=3D20
I have used the above technique on my production pots, throwing mugs at =3D
less
than 2 minutes each, a birdfeeder that was similar to a fat vase in less
than 4 minutes. I was turning out plates with my slab method at less =3D
than 2
minutes each. Minimal water only at the beginning stage to get the clay
under control and centered, then with the wall formed, it is easy to =3D
throw
dry. You need to hold your fingers in a little different angle as well =3D
so
the pot glides under them without pulling or dragging. There is such a =3D
sense
of being at one with the clay when your fingers are shaping the clay =3D
with no
water.=3D20
I agree that Dayton's throwing dry was very slow and I believe that he =3D
could
accomplish that little pot a lot faster perhaps by changing the angle of =
=3D
his
fingers on the clay as well as pulling up the wall in a tapered shape so
that the clay nearer the top portion is slightly thinner than the =3D
bottom.
Then one can go back and thin the bottom. /\ in this way | | . This =3D
gives
you no drag or twist when working on the upper portion of the pot.
Bonnie Staffel
http://webpages.charter.net/bstaffel/
http://vasefinder.com/bstaffelgallery1.html
DVD=3DA0 Throwing with Coils and Slabs
DVD=3DA0 Introduction to Wheel Work
Charter Member Potters Council
Dayton Grant on sat 24 apr 10
=3D0ADry throwing seems to me like having dry sex "painfully slow'!=3D0A(Oo=
oh .=3D
..'now' I see what the foreskin was 'for', maybe we sould'nta cut that off.=
=3D
..)=3D0A=3D0AAs seems to happen with age everything dries out and lubricati=
on s=3D
eems like a damn good answer.=3D0A(If you know what say to it, the clay pra=
ct=3D
ically lubricates itself.) =3D0A=3D0AOk, so, then I'll tell you, that in th=
e 'c=3D
lassic method',=3D0A=3D0Aif you 'want' to use lubrication, the 'clay' you s=
tart=3D
with, must be 'much' firmer, 'hard' so to to speak ...=3D0Abut in order to=
e=3D
ven 'know' how to 'prepare' and 'handle' a hard piece of clay=3D0Ayou have =
to=3D
know how to throw a softer clay body with little or 'no water',=3D0A=3D0Aw=
e ca=3D
n not even 'discuss' how to use water on a big hard piece of clay=3D0Aunles=
s =3D
you 'already' know the intimate details of throwing a small 'soft' piece of=
=3D
clay without much water,=3D0A=3D0Ait is a direct analogical linear choreog=
raph=3D
y of movements that must necessarily be done in a certain order to produce =
=3D
a consistent result. =3D0A=3D0Afro instance this guy 'Claudio Reginato' is =
thro=3D
wing hard clay with 'a lot' of water but its not just a question of strengt=
=3D
h. you have to know where to put all that pressure, even with your eyes clo=
=3D
sed so to speak.=3D0A=3D0Ahttp://www.youtube.com/user/PotterySchoolDotCom#p=
/f/1=3D
41/RSb5CMhMpdQ=3D0A=3D0Athe cylinder in this video is about 44" tall throw=
n in=3D
one sitting in one piece with out any kind fan or heat out of 15 pounds of=
=3D
clay=3D0Athis is his website=3D0A=3D0Ahttp://www.ceramics.it/reginato/inde=
x_en.h=3D
tml )=3D0A=3D0AThis guy is the world champ, like five times in a row, at th=
is c=3D
ontest described below, if we hope to ever have anyone from our country 'p=
=3D
lace' in this competition we have to take 'classical throwing' seriously, I=
=3D
have suggested starting a U.S Team, but we don't have anybody (that I know=
=3D
of) that comes close, but 'me', I'm not being 'snotty', I just have'nt see=
=3D
n anyone in the U.S. throw 44 inches out of 15 pounds in 30 minutes, with n=
=3D
o 'gimmicks'. If 'you' know of anyone please let me know. If you see Claudi=
=3D
o in Italy tell him I said 'Hi'.=3D0A--------------------------------------=
--=3D
----------------------------------=3D0AL=3DE2=3D80=3D99Oro del Vasaio=3D0AX=
XIX Editio=3D
n =3DE2=3D80=3D93 9th =3DE2=3D80=3D9CAlteo Dolcini=3DE2=3D80=3D9D Cup=3D0AM=
ONDIAL TORNIANTI=3D0A=3D
=3D0ACompetition Rules=3D0A=3D0AArt. 1 =3DE2=3D80=3D93 DATE AND VENUE OF TH=
E COMPETITIO=3D
N=3D0AThe Competition will take place in Faenza (Piazza Nenni) on the 6th =
an=3D
d 7th September=3D0A=3D0AArt. 2 - PARTICIPANTS=3D0APotters coming from all =
over t=3D
he world can take part in the competition, provided that they submit their =
=3D
application in compliance with Art. 8.=3D0A=3D0AArt. 3 =3DE2=3D80=3D93 PRIZ=
E AWARDING=3D
=3D0AWorld Master Technical Championship:=3D0AThe prize will be awarded to =
the =3D
potter who achieves the highest total final score obtained after:=3D0Acreat=
in=3D
g the tallest cylinder=3D0Acreating the widest bowl=3D0Aaccording to Art. 4=
.=3D0A=3D
Tests for the World Master Technical Championship:=3D0A* The tallest cylind=
er=3D
: competitors must create a single cylindrical handcraft as high as possibl=
=3D
e using the clay distributed by the Judging Committee. The quantity will be=
=3D
fixed in accordance with the following ratio:=3D0A cylinder diameter 16=
c=3D
m =3D3D 6 kg=3D0A cylinder diameter 18 cm =3D3D 7 kg=3D0A cylinder di=
ameter 2=3D
0 cm =3D3D 9 kg=3D0AThe Judging Committee will choose one of the above meas=
ures=3D
by lot and in public.=3D0A* The widest bowl: competitors must create a sin=
gl=3D
e handcraft, as wide as possible, using the clay distributed by the Judging=
=3D
Committee. Potters will be provided with the same quantity of clay that wi=
=3D
ll be chosen by lot before the beginning of the test (7, 8 or 9 kg). The ba=
=3D
se of the handcraft must not exceed the diameter of the potter=3DE2=3D80=
=3D99s w=3D
heel. Both tests must be accomplished in 20 minutes for the preliminary hea=
=3D
t and in 30 minutes for the final heat.=3D0AEvery competitor will have to s=
ep=3D
arate the handcraft from the wheel by using the specific wire and must prev=
=3D
ent the handcraft base touching the wheel base from being damaged or broken=
=3D
.=3D0A---------------------------------------------------------------------=
--=3D
---=3D0AIn fact I maintain the older you get the softer you will want your =
cl=3D
ay.=3D0A(... and that's 'true' sometimes , if you see it that way)=3D0A=3D0=
AThe b=3D
est lubrication is copius amounts=3D0Aof water.=3D0A(or slip)=3D0A=3D0AI ne=
ver coul=3D
d figure people bragging about not using water.=3D0A(I'm not bragging, I'm =
tr=3D
ying to share information, on how anyone studying pottery, can improve thei=
=3D
r throwing ability)=3D0A=3D0AI guess if you live in the Sahara desert it is=
a w=3D
ise move but I live=3D0Aby The Great Lakes and water is abundant.=3D0A( It =
has =3D
nothing to do with water being scarce, it has to do with facility of design=
=3D
and efficiency)=3D0A=3D0AIf you throw a pot for (more than?) 30 minutes y=
ou a=3D
re playing with it.=3D0A( I agree, 20 minutes for the preliminary heat and =
in=3D
30 minutes for the final heat. and even less for things shorter than 30 in=
=3D
ches tall)=3D0A=3D0AIssac Button's 28 lb cider jugs in 3 miinutes- now that=
's a=3D
thrower!=3D0A(I guess so!)=3D0A=3D0AMy clay is soft and if you fool with i=
t that=3D
long it will get tired, collapse and go to sleep.=3D0A(maybe you should tr=
y =3D
some 'grog', it works for me )=3D0A=3D0ALike me my clay is good for a fast =
and =3D
furious 3-5 minutes.=3D0A(I throw for 3-5 'hours' at a time ...cuz' I reall=
y =3D
enjoy my work)=3D0A=3D0A=3D0AMy motto- soft clay, slow wheel!=3D0A(my style=
is a li=3D
ttle harder and faster, but you what they say ... different strokes for dif=
=3D
ferent folks)=3D0A=3D0ACheers=3D0ADayton=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A=3D0A
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