Cindy Strnad on tue 8 may 01
Hi, Beth Ellen.
Well, you will get lots of e-mail on this one. ;) Just to stir up the bees a
bit: If a pot serves as art, does that not count as a function?
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
JON LOVEJOY on tue 8 may 01
I pit-fire and raku 95% of my work. I sometimes hear people say "oh,
that's not functional" or even better, "what is it for?" I do what I do
because I like it. I've found that many other people like it well enough
to pay me for it. And it functions. If you set one of my pots down on a
table, it's not going to get up and walk away. It won't melt, fade, talk
back, etc. It just sits there. For a "360 degree canvas" whose sole
purpose is just to be lived with and looked at, it functions fine.
beth ellen brickey wrote:
>
> I would be interested to anyones opinions about functional and nonfunctional pottery.
>
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beth ellen brickey on tue 8 may 01
I would be interested to anyones "soapbox" (smile) opinions about functio=
nal
and nonfunctional pottery. I was going to say "vs" but did not want to g=
et
too black and white. Functional and aesthetics go together. But what of
purely aesthetic works? I guess we could define function. Is this too
philosophical?
Any thoughts?
Beth Ellen
PS...I just like getting lots of email everyday.
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vince pitelka on wed 9 may 01
> Stop the bickering and make the art. If it has merit all other issues are
> moot.
William -
I don't think there WAS any bickering until the above appeared. This is a
perfectly healthy discussion, even if it is repeated ad nauseum in CM and
other venues. I think that functional and nonfunctional are inappropriate
terms, because, as others have pointed out, all art functions. I prefer the
term utilitarian, which implies practical utility serving human physical
needs, other than or in addition to those we normally associate with
traditional fine art (the decorative, narrative, emotional, psychological).
There is no way to define the difference between art and craft, rather than
obvious issues of practical utility, which need never separate art and craft
aesthetically.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
beth ellen brickey on wed 9 may 01
I love the expression "360 degree canvas"! I have often thought of my
pieces in that way but had not expressed it quite like that. :-) Thanks.
>From: JON LOVEJOY
>Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: functional/nonfunctional pottery
>Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 20:55:26 -0700
>
>I pit-fire and raku 95% of my work. I sometimes hear people say "oh,
>that's not functional" or even better, "what is it for?" I do what I do
>because I like it. I've found that many other people like it well enough
>to pay me for it. And it functions. If you set one of my pots down on a
>table, it's not going to get up and walk away. It won't melt, fade, talk
>back, etc. It just sits there. For a "360 degree canvas" whose sole
>purpose is just to be lived with and looked at, it functions fine.
>
>beth ellen brickey wrote:
> >
> > I would be interested to anyones opinions about functional and
>nonfunctional pottery.
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
> >
> >
>______________________________________________________________________________
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
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>melpots@pclink.com.
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Marie Gibbons on wed 9 may 01
I too do non functional work, but, beg to differ on the term... sculptural
work certainly does have a function, it feeds the soul, the eyes, the touch,
the heart, and all this without ever needing to be put in the dishwasher!
marie gibbons
www.oooladies.com
In a message dated 5/9/01 4:31:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
lovejoyart@HOME.COM writes:
> And it functions. If you set one of my pots down on a
> table, it's not going to get up and walk away. It won't melt, fade, talk
> back, etc. It just sits there. For a "360 degree canvas" whose sole
> purpose is just to be lived with and looked at, it functions fine.
>
Snail Scott on wed 9 may 01
Everything is functional...
below 5 pounds = paperweight
above 5 pounds = doorstop
above 50 pounds = parking bollard
-Snail
Karen Sullivan on wed 9 may 01
I think sometime in the 14 century there was a division
of artists into two categories...
One category was the artisans who were engaged in the production
of objects...for use....
I kinda have trouble with that description as I view my experience
in this material world as one of diverse definitions for the usefulness of
objects...
i.e. using a vessel to contain food...
although a vessel also contains space...
a vessel also contains conceptual information...
stretch the idea as far as you want...
use being defined as purely about material substance or
being defined as conceptual/about issues of beauty/and
being useful to feed my sense of form visually
So back to the 14 c...
another category of artists were involved in more lofty activities...
those being the communication of information from the political powers
of church and state and by virtue of that activity were assigned more
value and currency in society....
So I think that now, 600 years later...we seem to still be functioning
within the same bias of the use/value of an object....
The argument is a no win game...and the only action I see of value
is to keep working and refine your sense of form and relationship
with the material...keep asking interesting questions....
There are amazing examples throughout history of objects that
function both functionally and nonfunctionally....and if you want to
make references to a teapot to further your ideas you are making a statement
about the relationship to a tradition...otherwise...try another medium
bamboo karen
on 5/9/01 7:31 AM, beth ellen brickey at bethelmundi@HOTMAIL.COM wrote:
> Howdy!
>
>>> If a pot serves as art, does that not count as a function?<<
>
> I sure would think so. For some reason the word "serve" sticks in my mind.
> What meaning did you have in mind here?
>
> Regards,
>
> Beth Ellen
>
> PS I enjoyed your site.
>
>
>
>> From: Cindy Strnad
>> Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>> Subject: Re: functional/nonfunctional pottery
>> Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 22:19:09 -0600
>>
>> Hi, Beth Ellen.
>>
>> Well, you will get lots of e-mail on this one. ;) Just to stir up the bees
>> a
>> bit: If a pot serves as art, does that not count as a function?
>>
>> Cindy Strnad
>> Earthen Vessels Pottery
>> RR 1, Box 51
>> Custer, SD 57730
>> USA
>> earthenv@gwtc.net
>> http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
>>
>>
____________________________________________________________________________
_>> _
>> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>>
>> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>>
>> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
William Moody on wed 9 may 01
I think that until we as 'ceramic artists' give up these ridiculous
subcategories and dissention in our own ranks we will never get the proper
respect we should from the "Art world." If we can't figure out that all art
is functional amongst ourselves then how are we to expect anyone else to
figure it out? I am yet to be in a class or setting where painters look at
each other with contempt when they find out each others media. Sculptors
count among themselves anyone from Rodin to Andy Goldsworthy.
Stop the bickering and make the art. If it has merit all other issues are
moot.
Just my opinion!
--Randall--
----- Original Message -----
From: "beth ellen brickey"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2001 6:00 PM
Subject: functional/nonfunctional pottery
> I would be interested to anyones "soapbox" (smile) opinions about
functional
> and nonfunctional pottery. I was going to say "vs" but did not want to
get
> too black and white. Functional and aesthetics go together. But what of
> purely aesthetic works? I guess we could define function. Is this too
> philosophical?
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Beth Ellen
>
> PS...I just like getting lots of email everyday.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
William Moody on thu 10 may 01
Vince,
I wasn't implying that this post was bickering. I was saying that, in
general, the ceramic artist group has been bickering about this very same
question for (in my opinion) far too long. If we do not accept each other=
as
Artists who work in clay, the art world and buying public will not be as
willing to accept what we do as Art.
BTW, I don't bicker although I have been known to rant ... easily and oft=
en.
;)
--Randall--
vince pitelka on sat 12 may 01
> I wasn't implying that this post was bickering. I was saying that, =
in
> general, the ceramic artist group has been bickering about this very sa=
me
> question for (in my opinion) far too long. If we do not accept each oth=
er
as
> Artists who work in clay, the art world and buying public will not be a=
s
> willing to accept what we do as Art.
Randall -
I can certainly appreciate this. I do think that too many ceramics peopl=
e
are overly sensitive about the art vs. craft and sculpture vs. utilitaria=
n
debates. We all deserve to be much more confident about what we do. Any=
one
who denies that a pot can be a great work of art is ignoring much of huma=
n
history and the opportunity to appreciate a broad spectrum of beautiful
works of art past and present. Your post did come across as a little
abrupt, and I do not believe it is wise to try to summarily quell any
discussion. This can always be a productive dialogue as long as we remai=
n
appropriately thoughtful and philosophical and do not degenerate into
sour-grapes spitefulness. Mainstream fine arts people can come across as
real snobs, but it is their own insecurity talking, and if we display any
sort of craft inferior complex we just play into those insecurities. Our
art is usually much more tangible and defineable than most, and utilitari=
an
wares are experiential in the most direct possible ways. Perhaps the
traditional fine arts folks are just jealous? I'll bet.
Best wishes -
- Vince, a fellow ranter
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
beth ellen brickey on sun 13 may 01
Hello Cindy,
I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts on service.
I realize that it is easy, while using certain words, to fall into a false
'either/or' dichotomy. Truly not my intention to dissect and separate. But
nonetheless distinctions are useful if only for the simple reason to deepen
and appreciate the many uses of 'things'or even how things serve?
I have been out of the creative loop for awhile and since I have an
opportunity to really work at it full-time I was just wanting to get some
rapport going and stimulate my own mind. I want so desparately to get back
in the flow.
For me it is a thrill just to think about unity and diversity as a concept.
As far as my own experience with clay and painting/drawing I think of what
ways can I abstract our a little world of it on form. The whole process of
making it concrete.
If my work serves to hold up to contemplation unity and diversity on my
small and insignificant scale of handiwork (God granting) I would be very
happy. One can go into the reasons we are so driven to work for beauty.
Well, I know I am. That would be a great discussion?
I am just rambling here.
Well, so for the record, I don't separate functional from nonfunctional in a
disparate way. :-)
Regards from Oconomowoc WI
Beth Ellen
>From: Cindy Strnad
>Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: functional/nonfunctional pottery/Re:Cindy
>Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 13:03:22 -0600
>
>Hi, Beth Ellen.
>
>Thanks--I'm glad you liked my website. It's woefully incomplete, I'm
>afraid,
>but it's free, and the freebies do have their drawbacks. This one is that
>every photo, etc. must be uploaded individually, and it takes forever . . .
>but, on to what you asked me.
>
>"What meaning (for 'serve') did you have in mind here?" (regarding my
>comment: >>If a pot serves as art, does that not count as a function?<<)
>
>Serving is a noble occupation. None of us does anything of value until we
>serve others. That may mean serving ourselves first so we can be of value
>to
>others, but nevertheless, service to others is the ultimate result.
>
>If a pot serves as art, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to serve
>bread in it. This morning I went for a walk. The trees, new spring flowers,
>soft cloudy sky, cool breeze--all of them served me nourishment far
>different from food, but just as necessary.
>
>On Sunday, my little girl and I went hiking in Custer State Park and came
>upon a rough, red cliff. It stood out in naked contrast against the blue,
>blue sky and I couldn't stop looking at it. Cheri had plenty of fun
>climbing
>around on ancient downed trees while I sat on a rock and let the color of
>that cliff feed my eyes. No need to think about anything--just enjoy being
>there and feed on the beauty.
>
>Of course, art sometimes serves us in other, less pleasant ways, even
>disturbing ways, but art should always speak from one soul to another. If
>one can also drink tea from it, that's nice, but hardly necessary to its
>functionality.
>
>So, maybe that clarifies my short comment. Hope you're having a nice day--I
>am.
>
>Best Wishes,
>
>Cindy Strnad
>Earthen Vessels Pottery
>RR 1, Box 51
>Custer, SD 57730
>USA
>earthenv@gwtc.net
>http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
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Cindy Strnad on mon 14 may 01
Hi, Beth Ellen.
Regarding getting back into the "creative loop", sometimes you just have to
force yourself to get into the studio and start making something. Not
something you need or should make, but something that pleases you. Once you
get started, then there's usually no problem, but if there is, just keep
going until the wheels run smooth again. Sometimes it's will-power. Not
romantic, but it works.
Best wishes,
Cindy Strnad
Earthen Vessels Pottery
RR 1, Box 51
Custer, SD 57730
USA
earthenv@gwtc.net
http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
beth ellen brickey on mon 14 may 01
Thank you,
I am well aware of the difference between "romantic" and "will power" and I
will surely refresh myself in that distincion.
Beth Ellen
>From: Cindy Strnad
>Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: functional/nonfunctional pottery
>Date: Mon, 14 May 2001 08:35:14 -0600
>
>Hi, Beth Ellen.
>
>Regarding getting back into the "creative loop", sometimes you just have to
>force yourself to get into the studio and start making something. Not
>something you need or should make, but something that pleases you. Once you
>get started, then there's usually no problem, but if there is, just keep
>going until the wheels run smooth again. Sometimes it's will-power. Not
>romantic, but it works.
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Cindy Strnad
>Earthen Vessels Pottery
>RR 1, Box 51
>Custer, SD 57730
>USA
>earthenv@gwtc.net
>http://www.earthenvesselssd.com
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
_________________________________________________________________
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