Carenza Hayhoe on thu 24 may 01
A difficult question because I understand that in the UK a visit from a
Trading Standards Officer or Health Inspector might be very embarrassing -
whether for the gallery owner, or maker I am not sure and I should find out.
All work from my gallery is sold with the statement "Bought as seen" but I
fear that is probably no safe guard in law. Smoke fired pots are sold with
a card stating they are porous and not suitable for food and where I know
that a piece has a dodgy glaze and might be used for food I also attach a
warning - but one doesn't always know!
Carenza
www.wellbelovedgallery.co.uk
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Hesselberth"
To:
Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 1:17 AM
Subject: Re: An ethical question
> Hi Jennifer,
>
> The vinegar test might work on this one too. Then you don't get bogged
down
> in the safety questions for which there are no hard answers. It is not
> unreasonable to expect, though, that functional pottery should be durable
to
> exposure to mild acids like they might see in use. Try it on a few
> questionable pieces see what you get.
>
> Regards, John
>
> Web site: http://www.frogpondpottery.com Email: john@frogpondpottery.com
>
> "The life so short, the craft so long to learn." Chaucer's translation of
> Hippocrates, 5th cent. B.C.
>
> > From: Jennifer F Boyer
> > Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> > Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:11:21 -0400
> > To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> > Subject: Re: An ethical question
> >
> > Our feet are
> > stuck in the mud, because we know of no other galleries that
> > have glaze safety critieria. Does anyone out there deal with a
> > gallery who has such a policy?
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Wade Blocker on thu 24 may 01
Jennifer,
It is easy to label pots that are made with obvious not food safe
materials "for decorative use only" with an indelible marker. I have some
jars with the high manganese bronze glaze in a gallery and have labelled
then accordingly.They cannot be used to store anything, so actually they
would not need such label. However the remainder of my work is
functional, and the "decorative use" serves to distinguish that work.
In another gallery all the ware is medium and high fired, stoneware or
porcelain, by various clay artists. The owner assumes that the ware
presented by potters for sale is food safe,since it is so labelled. Mia in
hot ABQ
Janet Kaiser on thu 24 may 01
Well, following the dead pan silence on my post re:
lead and Michael Cardew, here is something to get even
more riled about...
What would YOU do (pretend you are a gallery for a
minute) if sent a body of work (platters, dishes and
bowls) which are "thrown and turned on an electric
wheel from white stoneware of porcelain clay. Layers of
spodume and barium glazes with copper oxide produce
varying shades of bright blue. Some of the work is
glazed without the copper for a more neutral surface.
Selenium and vanadium are used for the reds and yellows
and an Albany-type slip for the black glaze. Rims and
centres are highlighted with a manganese mixture that,
when fired to 1240 degrees centigrade, becomes bronze
and gold"?
So... What would you do and/or say??
Janet Kaiser - Sitting in shirt sleeves at 3 a.m.!! And
thinking kindly of the Senator from Vermont, but not so
benignly of 12 "Democrats" in the Senate...
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
John Hesselberth on thu 24 may 01
Hi Jennifer,
The vinegar test might work on this one too. Then you don't get bogged down
in the safety questions for which there are no hard answers. It is not
unreasonable to expect, though, that functional pottery should be durable to
exposure to mild acids like they might see in use. Try it on a few
questionable pieces see what you get.
Regards, John
Web site: http://www.frogpondpottery.com Email: john@frogpondpottery.com
"The life so short, the craft so long to learn." Chaucer's translation of
Hippocrates, 5th cent. B.C.
> From: Jennifer F Boyer
> Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
> Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:11:21 -0400
> To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
> Subject: Re: An ethical question
>
> Our feet are
> stuck in the mud, because we know of no other galleries that
> have glaze safety critieria. Does anyone out there deal with a
> gallery who has such a policy?
John Hesselberth on thu 24 may 01
Hi Janet,
Assuming they are being sold as functional pieces, I would soak one in
vinegar (half-full so there is a nice line) for a couple days and see what
happens. Assuming it fades like I suspect it would I'd have a talk with the
potter which would include asking him/her to come pick up the pots and not
return until they knew what they were doing. If it didn't fade I might
still ask the potter what was in the glazes and to see the leach test
results.
But then you all know the devil gets in me on this subject.
Regards,
John
Web site: http://www.frogpondpottery.com Email: john@frogpondpottery.com
"The life so short, the craft so long to learn." Chaucer's translation of
Hippocrates, 5th cent. B.C.
>
>> What would YOU do (pretend you are a gallery for a
>> minute) if sent a body of work (platters, dishes and
>> bowls) which are "thrown and turned on an electric
>> wheel from white stoneware of porcelain clay. Layers of
>> spodume and barium glazes with copper oxide produce
>> varying shades of bright blue. Some of the work is
>> glazed without the copper for a more neutral surface.
>> Selenium and vanadium are used for the reds and yellows
>> and an Albany-type slip for the black glaze. Rims and
>> centres are highlighted with a manganese mixture that,
>> when fired to 1240 degrees centigrade, becomes bronze
>> and gold"?
>>
>> So... What would you do and/or say??
Khaimraj Seepersad on thu 24 may 01
Hello to All ,
Janet ,
I would ask myself as a gallery owner , where my limits lay.
If I were informed enough to determine which Oxides were
poisonous and if I would be able to [ financially ] stand on
my true opinion.
Talking to the potter would help .
Perhaps getting the glazes tested. Those that were not stable
should have a large hole at the bottom of the ware , if there
was a chance of it being used with food or drink - even fruit .
AND still I would apply labels , preferably fired on.
I wouldn't feel too good if a family ended up hospitalised over
something I could have done something about.
Above all , talking to the Potter , would be very important.
I am sure the others will have more experienced and mature
responses .
Stay Well ,
Khaimraj
-----Original Message-----
From: Janet Kaiser
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: 24 May 2001 4:48
Subject: An ethical question
>Well, following the dead pan silence on my post re:
>lead and Michael Cardew, here is something to get even
>more riled about...
>
>What would YOU do (pretend you are a gallery for a
>minute) if sent a body of work (platters, dishes and
>bowls) which are "thrown and turned on an electric
>wheel from white stoneware of porcelain clay. Layers of
>spodume and barium glazes with copper oxide produce
>varying shades of bright blue. Some of the work is
>glazed without the copper for a more neutral surface.
>Selenium and vanadium are used for the reds and yellows
>and an Albany-type slip for the black glaze. Rims and
>centres are highlighted with a manganese mixture that,
>when fired to 1240 degrees centigrade, becomes bronze
>and gold"?
>
>So... What would you do and/or say??
>
>Janet Kaiser - Sitting in shirt sleeves at 3 a.m.!! And
>thinking kindly of the Senator from Vermont, but not so
>benignly of 12 "Democrats" in the Senate...
>The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
>HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
>Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
>E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
>WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
Jennifer F Boyer on thu 24 may 01
Janet,
I do hope you get some response on this. We have a potter in our
gallery making bowls with a green copper matt glaze that goes
metallic where thick....leachyleachyleachy
But if we say something to her, we have to have a POLICY for all
our clay exhibitors. What kind of can of worms is that? A big
one. The potter co-owners have agonized over this. Our feet are
stuck in the mud, because we know of no other galleries that
have glaze safety critieria. Does anyone out there deal with a
gallery who has such a policy?
Jennifer, amazed that our tiny state(under a million) is filling
up the national news. We love Jim. And Pat, and Bernie
> What would YOU do (pretend you are a gallery for a
> minute) if sent a body of work (platters, dishes and
> bowls) which are "thrown and turned on an electric
> wheel from white stoneware of porcelain clay. Layers of
> spodume and barium glazes with copper oxide produce
> varying shades of bright blue. Some of the work is
> glazed without the copper for a more neutral surface.
> Selenium and vanadium are used for the reds and yellows
> and an Albany-type slip for the black glaze. Rims and
> centres are highlighted with a manganese mixture that,
> when fired to 1240 degrees centigrade, becomes bronze
> and gold"?
>
> So... What would you do and/or say??
>
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Jennifer Boyer mailto:jboyer@adelphia.net
Thistle Hill Pottery
95 Powder Horn Glen Rd
Montpelier, VT 05602 USA
802-223-8926
http://www.thistlehillpottery.com/
Never pass on an email warning without checking out this site
for web hoaxes and junk:
http://urbanlegends.about.com/science/urbanlegends/cs/nethoaxes/index.htm
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Janet Kaiser on wed 30 may 01
Thanks to everyone for taking time to answer my
question. The overwhelming opinion is that I should not
exhibit work which appears in functional shapes and
forms (dishes, plates, bowls, etc.) but is "strictly
for decoration only".
I quite agree with this. Indeed, we have a clause in
our contract which potters have to sign specifically
stating all work meets the UK and European safety Norms
on "functional" ware and all glazes are categorically
cadmium and lead-free. As far as I know, there are no
guidelines on barium, selenium, manganese, etc. in
ceramics, but it is probably time I researched this
subject again... A lot can happen in a couple of years.
I do know that the Trading Standards Officer will hold
the maker rather than the retailer responsible, but
only if there has been deception on the part of the
potter. Deception in this case, would be the omission
to say (= admit) that the pots are only for decoration
because the glazes are unsuitable for functional ware
and could be toxic. I would be held equally
responsible, having knowingly sold goods which are or
could be regarded as a health hazard. This would not
apply to items which have been used in an
"inappropriate way" by the buyer. But putting food into
bowls, dishes and on plates is not going to be
"inappropriate use", is it? Legally, I would be just as
guilty as the maker and open to prosecution.
As many have also pointed out... It is all very well
warning the buyer about suspect glazes, but what about
future owners? Suggestions of stamps and indelible
warnings are all very well, but the problem remains.
And who is to say that a future owner can read English?
Or even see? What about blind and visually impaired
people? The international skull and crossbones and a
warning in Braille would be an interesting addition...
Maybe beside the maker's mark?
But this all does not help when dealing with a very
precious person, who feels the whole world should be
glad to be able to, indeed allowed to buy THEIR
wonderful work... I was greeted with some scorn when I
voiced my reasons for not wanting to exhibit this work,
but I just know I am once again being cast as the big,
bad gallery person standing in the way to this person's
rise to international stardom and fame, not to say a
downright stupid old cow, who has no respect for the
up-and-coming artist in the modern world... "Art rules!
OK!?!"
Naturally (for me) safety is an important - even a
primary - issue, with all other aesthetic
considerations a secondary concern... It was good to
hear my doubts fully substantiated by working potters
and ceramic artists whom I respect.
Now, do I open my big mouth again, or do I let this
potter go on doing their own thing, quite oblivious to
what the future may hold for them and their clients? A
visit from a Trading Standards officer could result in
closure and a hefty fine, especially if they do a
standard acid glaze test. If it is only the arrogance
of youth, combined with an ignorance of current good
practice which has led this newly graduated potter
along this path, should I swallow my pride and "do the
right thing" by them? Of course I should. On the other
hand, why should I?
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
> A difficult question because I understand that in the
UK a visit from a
> Trading Standards Officer or Health Inspector might
be very embarrassing -
> whether for the gallery owner, or maker I am not sure
and I should find out.
> All work from my gallery is sold with the statement
"Bought as seen" but I
> fear that is probably no safe guard in law. Smoke
fired pots are sold with
> a card stating they are porous and not suitable for
food and where I know
> that a piece has a dodgy glaze and might be used for
food I also attach a
> warning - but one doesn't always know!
> Carenza
| |
|
