Anita M. Swan on fri 18 may 01
Have to chime in on this one. My dad was a glassblower so I am very familiar with
both processes (glass and clay) and I can assure you that it is indeed an artistic
process. Although most of his work was made for research purposes, it was his
creativity that made him so successful. Yes, Chihuly uses employees to execute his
designs, but how is that different from the way the Japanese masters employ
throwers and others to create their designs? There are many studios in the US that
employ craftsmen to help with throwing, glazing, firing or whatever. I hope I
haven't opened the proverbial can of worms....
Nita
Craig Martell wrote:
> Hey Rush:
>
> Ok, so you have a definite penchant for clay in lieu of glass. So do I,
> but I don't think it's fair or correct to say that glass is an industrial,
> artless process. Perhaps that's the way it is with Chihuly's work but I've
> seen a lot of nice glass that's anything but production line, product
> oriented. In any sort of discipline, painting, pot making, sculpting, the
> work can be art or not, alive or dead, depending on the skill, perception,
> and intent of the person doing the work. There's lots of good and bad
> glass and lots of good and bad clay.
>
> regards, Craig Martell in Oregon
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
Paul Lewing on fri 18 may 01
Here's the other side of this discussion:
I was once at an opening that featured both glass and clay. There were
both glass and clay artists there. A potter friend and I were talking
to some of the glassblowers when one of the glassblowers asked what we
did. My friend said he was a potter and the glass guy sneered and said,
"Glass- with a DIRT backing!"
I somehow doubt he thought of it as an industrial process with no art or
craftsmanship involved.
Paul Lewing, Seattle
Gayle Bair on fri 18 may 01
Sorry Guys...
Living in the Seattle area I have seen a few of Chihuly's smaller pieces and
they are wonderful. I don't think you can take swipes at someone who have
figured out the formula we all complain about, wish we had and seek for
ourselves!
Rush you talk endlessly about not getting the prices you think your pieces
are worth. Why slam someone who has done just that!
I admire Chihuly and watch PBS whenever they show his specials which I must
tell you appear whenever they are fundraising. He donates pieces and even
comes to the studio.
I don't feel the need to criticize him.... I would rather do for clay what
he has done for glass.
Gayle Bair-Bainbridge Island WA
Craig Wrote>
Hey Rush:
Ok, so you have a definite penchant for clay in lieu of glass. So do I,
but I don't think it's fair or correct to say that glass is an industrial,
artless process. Perhaps that's the way it is with Chihuly's work but I've
seen a lot of nice glass that's anything but production line, product
oriented. In any sort of discipline, painting, pot making, sculpting, the
work can be art or not, alive or dead, depending on the skill, perception,
and intent of the person doing the work. There's lots of good and bad
glass and lots of good and bad clay.
regards, Craig Martell in Oregon
Craig Martell on fri 18 may 01
Hey Rush:
Ok, so you have a definite penchant for clay in lieu of glass. So do I,
but I don't think it's fair or correct to say that glass is an industrial,
artless process. Perhaps that's the way it is with Chihuly's work but I've
seen a lot of nice glass that's anything but production line, product
oriented. In any sort of discipline, painting, pot making, sculpting, the
work can be art or not, alive or dead, depending on the skill, perception,
and intent of the person doing the work. There's lots of good and bad
glass and lots of good and bad clay.
regards, Craig Martell in Oregon
vince pitelka on sat 19 may 01
The whole problem with this thread is the notion of "vs" - glass vs pottery.
What a silly concept. And any post which denigrates glass and claims that
clay is a superior media is just plain hogwash. It all depends on what you
do with your chosen media, and there is amazing work and pure crap in both
clay and glass. Here at the Appalachian Center for Crafts there is a bit of
friendly rivalry between clay and glass, and I sometimes refer to glass as
the "transparent medium." But I know a lot of very fine glass artists and I
know what they go through to achieve their results, and sometimes I think we
have it easy in comparison. Perhaps that is why there are so many more
potters than glassblowers? The important thing is to never be impressed
with glass just because of the hotshop dance or because it is shiny and
jewel-like. That might have been enough back in the 60s and 70s, but we are
way beyond that now, and there is a lot of amazing glass work being done
today.
Hot glass work depends a lot on performance on the hotshop floor. What
happens in front of the furnace is like choreography, and glassblowers often
work in teams, sometimes with a crowd of people watching, and they usually
enjoy that. It is a very social artform, much like performance art. We
accuse them of being primadonnas, and many of them are, but it is often just
a surface act, a result of the hotshop dynamic and the demands of the
medium. We are lucky in that clay does not ask that of us, although the
clay world certainly has it share of primadonnas.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Jeremy McLeod on sat 19 may 01
> My friend said he was a potter and the glass guy sneered and said,
> "Glass- with a DIRT backing!"
It's somehow preversely reassuring to know that there are misinformed,
opinionated, and narrow people in every walk of life, eh? Sectarian
squabbles have been driving world history for aeons, why should
our little worlds be exempt?
I would think of several pages of reason why our little worlds
should be exempt, but will spare us all.
Jeremy McLeod
Ababi on sat 19 may 01
Personally I do not like glass arts, does not mean these are not arts.Follow
the link to an artist, We lost her, when she has moved to glass.
http://www.servicenet.com.ar/mwaisman/index.html
Ababi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anita M. Swan"
To:
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 5:56 AM
Subject: Re: Glass vs Pottery
> Have to chime in on this one. My dad was a glassblower so I am very
familiar with
> both processes (glass and clay) and I can assure you that it is indeed an
artistic
> process. Although most of his work was made for research purposes, it was
his
> creativity that made him so successful. Yes, Chihuly uses employees to
execute his
> designs, but how is that different from the way the Japanese masters
employ
> throwers and others to create their designs? There are many studios in
the US that
> employ craftsmen to help with throwing, glazing, firing or whatever. I
hope I
> haven't opened the proverbial can of worms....
>
> Nita
>
> Craig Martell wrote:
>
> > Hey Rush:
> >
> > Ok, so you have a definite penchant for clay in lieu of glass. So do I,
> > but I don't think it's fair or correct to say that glass is an
industrial,
> > artless process. Perhaps that's the way it is with Chihuly's work but
I've
> > seen a lot of nice glass that's anything but production line, product
> > oriented. In any sort of discipline, painting, pot making, sculpting,
the
> > work can be art or not, alive or dead, depending on the skill,
perception,
> > and intent of the person doing the work. There's lots of good and bad
> > glass and lots of good and bad clay.
> >
> > regards, Craig Martell in Oregon
> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Khaimraj Seepersad on thu 24 may 01
Good Day to All ,
Roger ,
sorry , I am not Vince , but I offer this .
You see windows in clayware all the time .
The Chinese have been making these wares ,
often with a pale green glaze . Makes opaque
clay shapes look translucent . Rice patterns mostly .
Khaimraj
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Korn
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: 24 May 2001 17:25
Subject: Re: Glass vs Pottery
> Vince wrote:
> The whole problem with this thread is the notion of "vs" -
> glass vs pottery.
> What a silly concept...
>
>Right on! I've been thinking about firing borosilicate glass (Pyrex) as
>"windows" into openings in bisqued clay forms, noting that the gross
>coefficients of expansion are similar (though the c of e probably is
>non-linear and dissimilar at particular temps due to the phase changes
>and microcrystal morphologies being different - "glass" is a supercooled
>liquid whereas fired clay is a mixture of amorphous silica and
>crystals).
>
>Vince, before I try this, could you enlighten me? Having both glass and
>clay at your place, somebody must have tried this.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Roger Korn
>McKay Creek Ceramics
>Box 436
>North Plains, OR 97133
>rkorn@europa.com
Roger Korn on thu 24 may 01
Vince wrote:
The whole problem with this thread is the notion of "vs" -
glass vs pottery.
What a silly concept...
Right on! I've been thinking about firing borosilicate glass (Pyrex) as
"windows" into openings in bisqued clay forms, noting that the gross
coefficients of expansion are similar (though the c of e probably is
non-linear and dissimilar at particular temps due to the phase changes
and microcrystal morphologies being different - "glass" is a supercooled
liquid whereas fired clay is a mixture of amorphous silica and
crystals).
Vince, before I try this, could you enlighten me? Having both glass and
clay at your place, somebody must have tried this.
Thanks,
Roger Korn
McKay Creek Ceramics
Box 436
North Plains, OR 97133
rkorn@europa.com
vince pitelka on sat 26 may 01
> Vince, before I try this, could you enlighten me? Having both glass and
> clay at your place, somebody must have tried this.
Roger -
Not with much success at all. We have had students combine clay and glass,
but only with separately fired pieces fitted together after they are cool.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
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