Bret Hinsch on thu 24 may 01
Aloha Sharon,
My studio looks like a bomb just went off inside. I'm sure your administrator would have me sent to the electric chair.
Whenever I see a picture of someone's studio in "Ceramics Monthly" it usually looks like some sort of designer space out of "Architectural Digest". The studio is located in some sort of charming building (Alaskan log cabin, Vermont barn, adobe hut). And the interior is absolutely spotless. I imagine the potters frantically scrubbing every inch of the studio for days to get it presentable for the photographer. These potter magazines present fantasy studios - they bear as much resemblance to the average studio as the mansions in "Architectural Digest" do to ordinary homes. As a result of these photographic fantasies, I think that people have very unrealistic visions of how clean a studio ought to be.
Let's face it - our raw materials are mud, dirt, muck, and slime. How can we possibly keep things clean?
When it comes to pottery spaces, cleanliness and order are completely subjective. They should be as clean as the people using them want them to be. If the potters don't mind the mess, why is it a problem?
Bret in Taipei
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Snail Scott on thu 24 may 01
Sharon-
Students in kiln room:
I believe that students should see as much of the firing
process as possible; otherwise it's just voodoo. Insurance
liability may be a problem, however. Find out why there was
an objection in the first place, and address that issue.
Salable work:
What does 'salable' really mean, in this context? What aspect
of 'salable' was being objected to? What characteristics of
the work caused it to be defined this way? (I find that the
term 'salable' is hardly ever applied to reflect actual
marketability. Voulkos' work is eminently commodified, but I
doubt if the term 'salable' has ever been used to describe to
it.)
Is it that they wish students to 'push the envelope' more, in
an artistic or conceptual manner; that the work is not
adventurous enough? If everyone is just cranking out standard
forms that look alike, by rote, I could see that being an
objection. (That's different, I think, from repeating a form
in order to achieve fluency and skill.) Is it that students
are being encouraged to consider marketability in choosing
forms? Or is everything being made with an eye toward its
likelihood of purchase? Or is it just too conventional?
What are the goals of the program as a whole, and what aspects
of the student work are seen as not fitting that vision? Many
publicly sponsored programs see production-style pottery as
something that's adequately supported in the private sector,
and that public money should fund types of work that are less
self-sustaining. This is a fundamental philosophical issue,
about how public funds should be spent for the common good.
There may not be a right and wrong answer, but chances are
that this program does have some underlying philosophy, and
wants to stick to it.
(I did use a public studio once, where one person was
making a line of production candleholders, by the hundreds.
She was eventually asked to leave, on the grounds that
although she was paying for a share of clay, glaze, kiln
space, etc, she was taking up a disproportionate amount of
the studio's resources. Since the studio was largely funded
through public tax money, the director felt that it wasn't
appropriate to (essentially) subsidize a personal business
venture, and it was time she got her own studio. I think
the director may have been right, in that case.)
Cleanliness:
In a shared space, it's important. If you're not sharing it,
then it's up to you. It seems unlikely to be the main cause
of the instructor's termination, though. Just another nail
in the coffin. The 'cause of death' was probably something
else. (Sounds like the guy was maybe too laissez-faire for
the style of the program, or some such...'irreconcilable
differences'.)
It shouldn't be the instructor's job to do all the cleaning,
though. Perhaps the main cleanup chores could be shared
between students and the instructor, with a clear, written
list of what must be done, how often, and by whom.
(I once worked in a studio shared between two classes of 30
students each, one working in ^12 porcelain and the other
working in red earthenware. The least speck of iron would
visibly contaminate the porcelain, but each class was
expectedto clean the place to near-hospital standards after
each class, and they did. It took maybe 5-10 minutes longer
than a slapdash job would have, and once expectations were
madeclear, nobody griped. And, the admin types didn't get
clay chunks on their suits when they visited.)
My own studio? It's a pit! But it's all mine!
Supervision:
If you really like this instructor, write letters. I wouldn't
take on the supervisory function, except as a temporary thing
until a new instructor is found or the old one is rehired.
Be vocal. Make your collective opinions plain.
I respect your loyalty to the instructor, but if he's pissed
off the powers-that-be, or is just deemed incompatible with
the goals of the program, I'd let it go, and see who's hired
next.
-Snail
At 08:20 AM 5/24/01 -1000, you wrote:
>We are a group of would-be potters under the tutelage of a fantastic potter.
>However we are losing out teacher because the administrator of the public
>parks program says this teacher is not keeping the room where we work clean
>enough and the kiln room is messy too.
>She also insists that he doesn't know how to run a program or else his
>students would not be going back and forth to the kiln room, nor we would
>show up late for class, nor would any of us, including the teacher, be
>making pottery that could actually be sold.
>She says this is not the way it is supposed to be.
>Now she has offered to let our group work there if I and one other person
>will be in charge and the teacher himself is fired.
>Whoa, what am I getting into?
>My question to this wonderful group is:
>What is reasonable to expect of a small room where 3 - 6 people are creating
>in clay, either hand-building or on the wheel (we only have 2, BTW).
>thanks for your help,
>Sharon in Hawaii
>impermanence@hawaii.rr.com
>
Mark Terry on thu 24 may 01
CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG writes:
>We are a group of would-be potters under the tutelage of a fantastic
>potter.
>However we are losing out teacher because the administrator of the public
>parks program says this teacher is not keeping the room where we work
>clean
>enough and the kiln room is messy too.
>She also insists that he doesn't know how to run a program or else his
>students would not be going back and forth to the kiln room, nor we would
>show up late for class, nor would any of us, including the teacher, be
>making pottery that could actually be sold.
>She says this is not the way it is supposed to be.
>Now she has offered to let our group work there if I and one other person
>will be in charge and the teacher himself is fired.
>Whoa, what am I getting into?
>My question to this wonderful group is:
>What is reasonable to expect of a small room where 3 - 6 people are
>creating
>in clay, either hand-building or on the wheel (we only have 2, BTW).
>thanks for your help,
>Sharon in Hawaii
Sharon. As a professor of Ceramics at a respected Liberal Arts
University, I can both vouch that your concerns are well-founded, and
would offer my perspective to your discussion if you'd like to direct your
administrator in my direction. As an aside, you might also want to
consider that there may be a personality conflict between your
administrator and instructor, and that mess is being used as an excuse to
deal with the person. I can't tell you how many times I've seen this in
public education - 'neat as a pin' bean counters unable to deal with
creative spaces and people. Be aware that the issue may not be mess at
all, but personalities or other less tangible problems.
In any case, if your administrative type wants to have an intelligent
conversation about this issue, you are welcome to invite them to call me
for a chat about what might be reasonable to expect in your workspaces.
My summer office hours are sporadic, but I check my email and messages
almost every day.
Mark Terry
Assistant Professor of Art
George Fox University
414 North Meridian Street
Newberg, Oregon 97132
mterry@georgefox.edu
503.554.2636
Fraser Forsythe on thu 24 may 01
Got that right. I have a studio in my basement and use a wet mop after I do
anything. Someone visiting my studio once commented that it was the cleanest studio
they ever saw. I might be a bit extreme,but I have to live in that house and the
dust will carry through the vents. The best scenario, of course is to have a studio
apart from your living space. To that end I have my glazes and glazing equipment in
the garage.
Fraser Forsythe
www.glazeexchange.com
fraser@glazeexchange.com
fraserforsythe@icqmail.com
Jocelyn McAuley wrote:
> > To clean is to make dust.
>
> I'm sorry Mudlark, but this is completely untrue. Water should be
> involved in studio cleanup activities, not a broom, and therefore no dust.
> One can "wet sweep", but that's not what you are refering to.
>
> The subject of how to clean appropriately is well documented in the
> archives, I suggest you look throu it to get some dust free options.
>
> Remember, there is more silica dust in the air than you can see.
>
> Hope this helps,
> Jocelyn
>
> --
> Jocelyn McAuley ><<'> jocie@worlddomination.net
> Eugene, Oregon
>
Lee Burningham on thu 24 may 01
Howdy,
I like to think I have a moderately successful high school pottery program
but it is a disaster for anyone looking in who might happen to be a clean
freak. Too many kids, too little work space(tables), not enough storage, too
many wheels jammed together(facing the middle of the room or each other),
and an undeniable electric charge in the air as the students all go nuts.
Organized chaos is my description for lack of a better one.
I don't think you can quantify the success of failure of a clay program by
the dust factor. It has to be by the creativity and production factors.
Another vital component is the enjoyment variable. Are the
participants/students enjoying themselves as well as getting things done?
Is your public parks program director expecting the pots to grow legs and
hike out to the kiln by themselves? Is she also expecting all the ceramic
products to get carried out of there to be soooo precious!!!!!! that no one
can part with their creative efforts? Unreasonable expectations by the
director!
Lee Burningham
Making a mess with the students and enjoying every minute of it
-
mudlark on thu 24 may 01
To clean is to make dust. I sweep up at least once a week. But not more. I know
this does not seem healthy but, I do it and there is'nt that much dust in the air
that I breath until........ I clean up. Pottery is not a healthy sport. She wants
it clean, may be she wants the teacher, who you love, to be gone? May be she has
never swept a clay studio before.
If you were to sell your pots, who whould you sell them to?
Sharon wrote:
> We are a group of would-be potters under the tutelage of a fantastic potter.
> However we are losing out teacher because the administrator of the public
> parks program says this teacher is not keeping the room where we work clean
> enough and the kiln room is messy too.
> She also insists that he doesn't know how to run a program or else his
> students would not be going back and forth to the kiln room, nor we would
> show up late for class, nor would any of us, including the teacher, be
> making pottery that could actually be sold.
> She says this is not the way it is supposed to be.
> Now she has offered to let our group work there if I and one other person
> will be in charge and the teacher himself is fired.
> Whoa, what am I getting into?
> My question to this wonderful group is:
> What is reasonable to expect of a small room where 3 - 6 people are creating
> in clay, either hand-building or on the wheel (we only have 2, BTW).
> thanks for your help,
> Sharon in Hawaii
> impermanence@hawaii.rr.com
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
--
Clyde Tullis
Mudlark Pottery
320 G Street
Salida, CO 81201
719-539-1299
mudlark@chaffee.net
http://www.mudlarkpottery.com
Jeremy McLeod on thu 24 may 01
> Now she has offered to let our group work there if I and one other person
> will be in charge and the teacher himself is fired.
> Whoa, what am I getting into?
This would seem *not* about the cleanliness or lack thereof in the studio.
If there are personality or politcal conflicts being cast in the form of
this sort of conversation, better to be aware of that than not. Sounds
like the administrator type and your teacher have "stuff" flying about
and the student types like you are in the line of fire. The above-named
non-solution to those tensions sounds like you'd be in some fairly ugly
circumstances as a result.
Rather than get yourselves caught in the middle, I'd suggest that all six
of you student types swim upstream to the Parks administrator's boss/supervisor
(and/or to City Council members/etc) and have them apply appropriate
leverage. As students in a public facility (assuming that your city like
most others these daze are driven by "customer satisfaction" as a
mantra) you have a great deal of clout as the customers the Parks
Dept. needs to satisfy.
The politics rife in small ponds in which petty people try to exercise
power can be pretty frustrating. Hope you find a way to bring a
constructive resolution to all this.
Jeremy McLeod
Gayle Bair on thu 24 may 01
Being the untrusting soul I am.... my first reaction is that the
administrator probably wants to close down the program. Getting rid of the
teacher is the logical first step.
Then I thought how messy is messy? What clean up system is in place? Does
this administrator have pottery studio experience?
You could compare your studio with others and share the results with the
administrator. It will become evident if the motive is to just shut down the
program because obstacle after obstacle will arise in spite of your efforts
to correct them. At that point you need to campaign to keep your studio.
Gayle Bair-Bainbridge Island WA
Sharon wrote>>
We are a group of would-be potters under the tutelage of a fantastic potter.
However we are losing out teacher because the administrator of the public
parks program says this teacher is not keeping the room where we work clean
enough and the kiln room is messy too.
She also insists that he doesn't know how to run a program or else his
students would not be going back and forth to the kiln room, nor we would
show up late for class, nor would any of us, including the teacher, be
making pottery that could actually be sold.
She says this is not the way it is supposed to be.
Now she has offered to let our group work there if I and one other person
will be in charge and the teacher himself is fired.
Whoa, what am I getting into?
My question to this wonderful group is:
What is reasonable to expect of a small room where 3 - 6 people are creating
in clay, either hand-building or on the wheel (we only have 2, BTW).
thanks for your help,
Sharon in Hawaii
impermanence@hawaii.rr.com
Sharon on thu 24 may 01
We are a group of would-be potters under the tutelage of a fantastic potter.
However we are losing out teacher because the administrator of the public
parks program says this teacher is not keeping the room where we work clean
enough and the kiln room is messy too.
She also insists that he doesn't know how to run a program or else his
students would not be going back and forth to the kiln room, nor we would
show up late for class, nor would any of us, including the teacher, be
making pottery that could actually be sold.
She says this is not the way it is supposed to be.
Now she has offered to let our group work there if I and one other person
will be in charge and the teacher himself is fired.
Whoa, what am I getting into?
My question to this wonderful group is:
What is reasonable to expect of a small room where 3 - 6 people are creating
in clay, either hand-building or on the wheel (we only have 2, BTW).
thanks for your help,
Sharon in Hawaii
impermanence@hawaii.rr.com
william schran on fri 25 may 01
Sharon - Sounds like you'll become the monitor/janitor. One piece of
equipment every clay studio needs is a good mop & bucket that are
actually used on a regular basis.
Bill
Erin Hayes on fri 25 may 01
Hi All,
I guess our studio at school is an exception to most. We keep it extremely
clean all the time. It takes everyone working to keep things that way, but
it can be done without that much effort once the pattern is established.
Partly we keep things clean because our space is too small and if it gets
too messy no one can work. We keep it clean because we're in the section of
the building next to the print shop and computing services, and if we had
dust getting into the building they'd kill us. We keep it clean because of
our own lungs and because we have a wonderful custodian who mops every night
because we keep things in reasonable enough shape that he can. Almost every
quarter I have an asthmatic student or two and around the eighth week when
things deteriorate in the studio they start feeling it first.
My studio at home is not clean. It's dusty and rumply and crowded, but it's
just me working there.
The studio where I went to school was caked in clay an inch thick and the
custodians wouldn't even go in to empty the trash. Maybe that's one of the
reasons I've made it a practice to get everyone into the habit of keeping
things clean in the school studio. I sneezed mud a lot during school - I
guess I figure I should try to minimize that now that I'm in charge of a
studio. It works most of the time.
Someone said they were sweeping their studio - I think that's the worst
thing to do. Could you mop instead?
At any rate, here's to studios, clean or dirty!
Erin.
Ababi on fri 25 may 01
My studio?
What a question?
The part I teach in and prepare the glazes is pretty clean , with the limit
of the place, the part I work myself, well call me 48 hours before you came
for a visit!
Ababi Sharon
ababisha@shoval.ardom.co.il
http://members4.clubphoto.com/ababi306910/
http://www.milkywayceramics.com/cgallery/asharon.htm
Philip Poburka on fri 25 may 01
Dear Bret,
Well said and true.
It used to be, the Magazines did not lie like this.
In Wood Working as well, or Old copies of National Rifleman, having =
articles on some Stock maker, Barrel maker or Egnraver...
In any line of old Art or Craft...
Usually, medium to poor lighting, dust, clutter, out of date =
Callenders half hidden on a wall...
The little truncated half Circles of clear area on cluttered Benches, =
where the Work gets 'done'...
Porquipine ashtrays, various languishing 'projects' or parts OF them =
in evidence...enough details to entrance...
Even when they were 'clean', it was a 'clean' like if one had washed =
an unrestored well used old Car kind of 'clean'.
In the 'eighties...this changed...maybe the 'Liability' underwriters =
or Laywers persuaded them to lie like this...I do not know.
Now, as you say, and too, in other disciplines as well, everything =
sanitized, some poor schmuck wearing safety glasses, and maybe a helmet, =
with a note from his mother, with a half embarassed scared eye grin, =
while he hold a screw-driver...and everything 'new'....EVERYTHING in =
many instances, all brand spanking 'new'...all brand spanking =
scary-surreal improbably ever to happen anywhere but there, 'new'...and =
never to be owned by anybody who knew what the hell they were DOING =
'new'...and there they are...'posed' in this theatric and often =
ridiculous scenario...
Beyond merely 'clean'...way beyond...
I used to want to write an Article, entitled "Small Shops / Studios as =
they Really Are."
But...then...who would Publish it?
Phil
Las Vegas...
Aloha Sharon,
My studio looks like a bomb just went off inside. I'm sure your =
administrator would have me sent to the electric chair.
Whenever I see a picture of someone's studio in "Ceramics Monthly" it =
usually looks like some sort of designer space out of "Architectural =
Digest". The studio is located in some sort of charming building =
(Alaskan log cabin, Vermont barn, adobe hut). And the interior is =
absolutely spotless. I imagine the potters frantically scrubbing every =
inch of the studio for days to get it presentable for the photographer. =
These potter magazines present fantasy studios - they bear as much =
resemblance to the average studio as the mansions in "Architectural =
Digest" do to ordinary homes. As a result of these photographic =
fantasies, I think that people have very unrealistic visions of how =
clean a studio ought to be.
Let's face it - our raw materials are mud, dirt, muck, and slime. How =
can we possibly keep things clean?
When it comes to pottery spaces, cleanliness and order are completely =
subjective. They should be as clean as the people using them want them =
to be. If the potters don't mind the mess, why is it a problem?
Bret in Taipei
=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
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_________________________________________________________________________=
_____ Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org You may look at the =
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who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.
John Hesselberth on fri 25 may 01
Hi Erin,
Wet mopping/sponging, hosing studios down or vacuuming with a vacuum that
exhausts outside are probably the safest ways to clean a studio. You can
also use these "carpet cleaner" type machines that spray on the floor and
immediately vacuum it up. I personally don't even trust the vacuums that
say they are made for clay dust because you will never know if the filter
has gone bad. Shop or household vacuums are terrible for cleaning a studio
(f they exhaust into the studio). Clay and silica dust go right through
them and back into the room. Sweeping is equally bad; although some think
they can do it safely if they use a sweeping compound. I haven't seen any
data to support that--the problem is you can't see the dust that is
dangerous and it can hang in the air for a day or more. You may think it is
safe because you can't see a dust cloud when in reality your are putting
tiny particles of silica right into your lungs.
Regards,
John
Web site: http://www.frogpondpottery.com Email: john@frogpondpottery.com
"The life so short, the craft so long to learn." Chaucer's translation of
Hippocrates, 5th cent. B.C.
>
> Someone said they were sweeping their studio - I think that's the worst
> thing to do. Could you mop instead?
Jocelyn McAuley on fri 25 may 01
> To clean is to make dust.
I'm sorry Mudlark, but this is completely untrue. Water should be
involved in studio cleanup activities, not a broom, and therefore no dust.
One can "wet sweep", but that's not what you are refering to.
The subject of how to clean appropriately is well documented in the
archives, I suggest you look throu it to get some dust free options.
Remember, there is more silica dust in the air than you can see.
Hope this helps,
Jocelyn
--
Jocelyn McAuley ><<'> jocie@worlddomination.net
Eugene, Oregon
Janet Kaiser on sun 27 may 01
I know what you mean Bret, but in fact, neither still
photographs nor films pick up dirt, dust, fluff or
anything like that. Ask anyone who works in either
business and they will tell you to what extremes they
have to go to get something looking in the least bit
"dirty"! I have a little bundle of fibres which came
from a film set... They had to tease loads of this
stuff out to make cobwebs and spray a course
powder-like substance around to make it anything like a
convincing movie set. Make-up artists and costume
makers have the same problem with actors/actresses.
Of course I bet even the hint of a magazine visiting
would put most of us into spring-clean and tidy-up
mode, rather along the lines of a mother-in-law
descending. Even if you just dump everything into boxes
out of sight, in drawers or under work tops, it makes a
clearance and the appearance of all decks cleared. I
speak from experience here!
And before the photographer starts... well, anyone who
has had their studio or home photographed will know how
much styling goes on. That can be quite drastic,
depending on the look they want to achieve. And that
often has little in common with what the place usually
looks like. For example, I know one artist who had
everything except their easel taken out of the studio.
The stylist then "imported" a large pot of white
lilies, which was put on the window sill and white
drapes were nailed up. A blower outside was used to
billow the latter in a convincing way... It took a
whole day to set up and many months to recover!
Some people work in absolute chaos and squalor, on the
other hand, I know some potters who work in studios and
workshops which look more like working laboratories or
cosy kitchens. Janet and Frank Hamer are an example of
two working potters who share a clean, orderly studio,
which would impress anyone, at any time. It is quite
awesome to see a working studio where you could eat off
the floors and work benches. It is also necessary in an
annex adjoining the kitchen and the rest of the living
space.
My kitchen tends to look like a recently bombed
pottery, my (unused) studio is utterly disorganised, my
office space is 99% organised chaos (= "I know where
99% is, just a shame I always need the 1% I cannot
find"), my sewing basket has overflowed into several
cupboards & drawers, and any room I spend more than 10
minutes, soon descends from neat and tidy into utter
chaos. Eckhard's space is always orderly, with nothing
on his desk, no stacks of "in progress", "to file",
"too interesting to throw out", "must read before
passing on to so-and-so", etc. It took two weeks to
clear the dining room table for a dinner for six not
long ago, and yet it is already three-quarters back to
normal i.e. buried.
To be honest, I have always presumed it depends on the
person, not the work being done. Thankfully Eckhard
just thinks being untidy and chaotic is part of my
"artistic temperament" and I think his tidiness is part
of his accountant's soul... My space is a vacuum which
fills - it is a natural phenomena. I regard his space
as a vacuum, which constantly defies the laws of
nature.
It is a jolly good job "love conquers all" in this
house. No nasty administrator around to spoil the
natural harmony. But then again, untidiness is not the
same as unclenliness, even if the two tend to go
hand-in-hand. My gut reaction to Sharon's original post
was (for what it is worth):
1st. the programme is for the chop and excuses are
being sought - health and safety concerns are always
going to be a good bet if further departmental and/or
official support is needed. Six students may mean that
they cannot afford a teacher, but can only break the
contract on certain malpractice grounds?
2nd. reading between the lines, there is possibly a
additional personality clash or some other personal
agenda (lover's tiff? got another family/friend lined
up for the job? wrong political party?) between
administrator and teacher.
3rd. if I were Sharon, I would find out what the real
politics of the situation were before doing or saying
anything. I would not want to be piggy in the middle
without knowing all the facts.
4th. maybe the combination of all the above PLUS little
green devils at work... Students producing work good
enough to sell? Ye, gods! You are supposed to be
kack-handed amateurs, thankful to the powers-that-be
for keeping you off the streets and giving you a play
space!
5th. a set-to with a wet mop and a general clean-up /
clear-out by everyone involved (teacher and students)
may go a long way to pacify the squeaky-clean,
housekeeper soul appearing in the guise of an
administrator? A general rule to stop tramping clay
dust along the corridor between clay area and kiln
room? A check on good practice cleaning studios in the
archives... To be fair, admin may just have a point; it
could be you should be cleaning up more and everyone
(including the teacher) thinks that is the janitor's
job? Without seeing the space or working practices, no
one can tell.
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
> My studio looks like a bomb just went off inside.
I'm sure your administrator would have me sent to the
electric chair.
Ceramic Design Group on mon 28 may 01
We have used Nilfisk brand vacuum cleaners in our shop for years. Their GS
80 model is sufficient for dust applications. Excellent filtering system,
optional HEPA filtering also available.
Jonathan
--
Jonathan Kaplan
CERAMIC DESIGN GROUP
PO Box 775112
Steamboat Springs, CO 80577
(970) 879-9139
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