Hank Murrow on tue 29 may 01
>Diane Mead was wondering;
>Random thoughts on something I heard last night.
>I learned of a painter who is still working
>at the age of 103. Is it possible to continue
>to do good/important work after the age
>of 60???
>Is it harder for potters due to the
>physical nature of the field?
>Aren't lots of people better at what
>they
>do after age 60
>when all the crap is out of their system???
Dear Diane;
I just turned 62 and have been told (knew it anyway, but glad it is
confrimed) that my work is growing wonderfully in recent years. And folks
far from my studio are inquiring about, finding, buying, and using it to
serve their lives in distant places and cultures.
Had a set in the strictly functional show, and have several pieces
in the American Shino Show, opening in NY Sept 8th. Recently, two pieces
were used in an important Tea ceremony in Kyoto for the #2 & #3 Urasenke
Tea-men there.
One noteworthy thing I have learned since turning 50. Work on the
ideas which really excite, not the ones which might seem 'good business'.
Hoping you are having fun, Hank in Eugene
Ann Brink on tue 29 may 01
Diane wrote:
. Is it possible to continue
> to do good/important work after the age
> of 60???
Hi Diane....YES, at least.....good FOR me, and important TO me.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think you would only ask that if you're under
age 60. It's just a number. IMO.
Ann Brink in CA
>
Diane Mead on tue 29 may 01
Random thoughts on something I heard last night.
I learned of a painter who is still working
at the age of 103. Is it possible to continue
to do good/important work after the age
of 60???
Is it harder for potters due to the
physical nature of the field?
Aren't lots of people better at what
they
do after age 60
when all the crap is out of their system???
Just wondering.
Diane Mead
_________________________________________________________________
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Janet Kaiser on wed 30 may 01
IMHO it all depends on the individual person and their
personality, not their age. My Mother, for example, was
always trying new methods and techniques, producing
vigorous, "important" new work right up to about a
month before her death at 77 and two weeks. But she was
an exceptionally creative and energetic person
throughout her life... Once she got her teeth into
something, she would beaver away until it was finished.
Never satisfied with the result, she would restlessly
move on to find her next inspiration. This was a woman
who swore she dreamed in colour and was so sensitive to
beauty and atmosphere, a dew drop on a flower or a
passage of music could reduce her to tears. Her inner
world was full of fantasy and intuition, colour and
light.
She would wrap circles around 17 year olds as far as
creativity and inspiration went. An impossible act to
follow! And she certainly did not decline as she
aged... Indeed, she seemed hungrier and more dynamic at
about 60, when she realised time was running out and
life was not long enough to do all she had in her head
and her heart.
Dull, boring and mediocre work is not just because
someone has stuck to the style they "peaked" at when
aged XYZ. The insight, the flare, the vim and vigour,
the liveliness, the depth of feeling, the mental
agility, artistry and integrity can improve as the
mechanical skills are so honed and perfected they
become automatic and apparently effortless. Yes, this
comes with age, but the drive has to remain alive.
The difference is, that some people fall back on to the
automatic production of work, by depending on their
acquired skills, but have long lost the truly inventive
spark and drive to develop. This has nothing whatsoever
to do with age, more to do with complacency and/or
laziness. It is safe... Nothing cutting edge or new,
either for them personally or for the world. Nothing
wrong with that, of course, but it tends to happen at
some point in most careers. I have even seen it happen
to students... The end of the creative road at age
21... Not the energy nor the courage to push on to new
personal highs. No guts to weather the numbing lows,
which always seem to alternate with the great peaks
throughout a really successful artist's life.
Take the great English painter Turner... We admire his
late work and think it was his most important
contribution, but his contemporaries thought it proved
he had gone quite mad. His early work leaves most of us
quite cold today, but he was learning his trade...
Without that work during his early and middle periods,
he would not have possessed the skills and
craftsmanship needed to produce those wonderful
paintings in his "dotage". HOWEVER those later works
were only possible, because he went on pushing
boundaries in his quest. His horizons seemed to broaden
as he aged, not become narrower and bound by his style
and the confines of what society expected him to
produce. Being tied to the mast of a ship struggling
through a storm, simply to observe and see what he
would later try to paint would be expected of a
youngster, not a senile old man - even today.
Just read today's post on Otto Heino... 82 and still
working with the passion of a whipper-snapper. So
please cut the ageism angle from your thoughts... It
really is "all in the mind". Just look at our very own
Desert Flower... Blooming after a whole life sans art!
Janet Kaiser - Getting ready to go on a snail hunt...
There has been a population explosion and they are even
eating my pots of herbs.
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
iandol on wed 30 may 01
Dear Diane Mead,
Anticipating entering my seventieth year an a few weeks I'm sure there =
are a lot of folk who lurk on this list who think this geriatric is =
still full of it!!!!
You ask age of 60???>
Given the variety of circumstances any person might enjoy, or rue, there =
is no reason why age should dull anyone's intellect, wish or will to be =
creative. Consider the number of valiant souls who post to this list =
about the battles they have with handicap and infirmity, yet they =
continue to engage in creative activity. After pacing yourself through =
to sixty, everything you make or create afterwards is Good and Important =
and you don't need a craft show jury to make those judgements for you.
The next pot I make will be one of the best ever. The next article I =
write will be among the most readable I have yet written. The next piece =
of research I conclude will add to my own knowledge and may benefit =
someone else. Why should such things change just because there is a =
natural process the medical profession choose to call "ageing",label =
those who live that process "geriatrics" and turn it into a service =
industry called "gerontology". No one can reverse the passage of the =
Arrow of Time. But we can grab the shaft and enjoy the flight.
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia
Avril Farley on wed 30 may 01
I really really hope so, having just embarked on a new career in ceramics
and about to ditch the day job in my fifty- humpty hum year!
Avril Farley in the Forest of Dean, UK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Diane Mead"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 4:35 PM
Subject: Important work after the age of 60+++
> Random thoughts on something I heard last night.
> I learned of a painter who is still working
> at the age of 103. Is it possible to continue
> to do good/important work after the age
> of 60???
> Is it harder for potters due to the
> physical nature of the field?
> Aren't lots of people better at what
> they
> do after age 60
> when all the crap is out of their system???
> Just wondering.
> Diane Mead
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
tomsawyer on wed 30 may 01
Diane wrote:
"Is it possible to continue to do good/important work after the age of
60???"
Diane, is the question really, can elderly people do important things. I
would point out that important is a relative term; what is important for me
is not important to most of the rest of the world. I make important pots
everyday because they help fullfill my life. When we set goals that entail
other peoples approbation, then important comes to mean what is important
for them and not ourselves. If we remain content with ourselves and balanced
seeking our self improvement, we can continue to make and do "important"
things.
Tom Sawyer
tsawyer@cfl.rr.com
Jeremy McLeod on wed 30 may 01
Time Magazine and National Public Radio both recently gave lots of coverage to something
called "The Nun Study" in which a gerontologist has been working with the 200 or so
elderly sisters of one particular order of nuns. The study has been turning up all sorts
of interesting stuff, mostly about Altzheimer's and prevention of onset of symptoms.
Besides a strong indicator that diet is important, another very important element in this
equation is mental stimulation and creativity. I don't think the articles used the
phrase, "use it or lose it" but it does come to mind right now. Those whose brains are
predisposed genetically to Altzheimer's and who keep themselves mentally active (thinking,
doing puzzles, working on creative endeavors) seem to delay the onset of symptoms.
Hmmmmmm? I sure hope playing in the mud qualifies, 'cuz this sounds like a great excuse
to keep on keepin' on.
Jeremy McLeod
WHew536674@CS.COM on wed 30 may 01
There have been numerous artists, in all fields, too many to list, that have
done some of their best work in later years. I read somewhere that people
who continue on with their profession continue to grow and improve. It may
be a bit more difficult for them to take up something new and foreign, like a
new language or slower in learning a new computer programs, but when it comes
to their own work, they will grow and improve as long as physically possible.
Joyce A.
Dannon Rhudy on wed 30 may 01
Diane said:
....learned of a painter who is still working
>at the age of 103. Is it possible to continue
>to do good/important work after the age of 60???....
First, I'm curious: was "60" just a random number,
or did you choose it for a specific reason? Secondly,
I believe that many people in the visual arts and in
music, most particularly, often continue to do better
and better work as they age, if they continue to WORK.
Lucie Rie did some of her best work in her 70's & 80's,
and continued to work until she died, at 90-something.
And no shabby work, either. Val Cushing is doing
some of his strongest work now, Don Reitz is too,
Karen Karnes - all well past 60. Well past. In fact,
someone just handed me the newest CM, and I note an
article dealing with several older ceramists, most
of whom are contiuing to work and to explore. Mel Jacobson
and Kurt Wild are doing some of their best work now,
Nils Lou has just done a series that is extraordinary.
Thoughtful work, risky work, fearless work - nothing safe
nor staid.
...>Is it harder for potters due to the
>physical nature of the field?......
I really don't think so. If they've taken care of
themselves, not done too much to injure bones/ligaments
etc., it's not harder. They just work smarter. And
because they are physically active by the very nature
of what they do, they are more likely to stay in good
healthy strong condition.
....>Aren't lots of people better at what
>they do after age 60......
Yes, of course they are, if they choose to be. I expect
your question was a pot-stirrer, rhetorical almost, but -
a good question, nonetheless.
regards
Dannon Rhudy
Veena Raghavan on wed 30 may 01
Dear Diane,
I certainly hope that life after 60 does not mean going downhill
all the way! Having turned 62 last year, I hope to have many creative yea=
rs
ahead. We made a major move last year, from a house to an apartment, from=
New York to Virginia, from one lifestyle to a completely new one. I had t=
o
learn to drive, since life without a car here would be pretty well
impossible. Having gotten over the hurdle of the driving test, I found a
freedom I had never known before. I began doing pottery seriously at the
age of 50, late in life as far as I was concerned, and I wondered if I
could do it. Well, I guess the answer is that, if one sets one's mind to
achieving something, it can be done.
As far as being a full-time potter at the age of 62, beginning a
new life, with my own home studio for the first time, I am looking forwar=
d
to years (I hope many!) of producing work that will continue to improve a=
nd
and excite me. I am now convinced that one can go on learning, no matter
what one's age, that one can go on to new and higher achievements, again =
no
matter what one's age, and the physical limitations that come with growin=
g
older do not affect either one's creativity or one's ability to make
wonderful pots. =
I have been selling my work for several years and, although I hop=
e
and need to continue to sell, at this point in my life, my real desire is=
to create pieces that I can look at and say, "Yes, that one is great", th=
en
move on to the next challenge. I think that being a potter, being creativ=
e,
seeking new methods, and constantly learning keeps me younger than my 62
years. In fact, I have to keep reminding myself that, now, there are limi=
ts
to what I can do!
All the best.
Veena
Veena Raghavan
75124.2520@compuserve.com
Dwiggins, Sandra (NCI) on wed 30 may 01
I am a soon to become 60 artist, and I know my best work is yet to come.
That's not saying that my previous work was bad, but I've finally gotten a
modicum of control over this medium in one small area. I have great
confidence that I will also get control over the other areas I need as soon
as I need them.
I don't even think about my age vs. my art. Why? Do you stop breathing at
a certain age? I expect I'll stop creating when I stop breathing.
I really dislike these type of musings. They sound like more victims of the
United States youth culture. Please don't let this happen to you. Just
because NCECA only chooses young artists who are in art schools to be
emerging artists, doesn't mean that you, like Hank Murrow, can't be an
emerging artist at age 62.
Hooray for Hank, and all other emerging artists, whatever age they may be.
On the other hand, worrying about whether you are still thinking well,
creating well, working well... This happens at ALL ages... Self doubt is
just another word in a creative artist's vocabulary. You just have to keep
going...
Sandy
-----Original Message-----
From: WHew536674@CS.COM [mailto:WHew536674@CS.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 11:27 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Important work after the age of 60+++
There have been numerous artists, in all fields, too many to list, that have
done some of their best work in later years. I read somewhere that people
who continue on with their profession continue to grow and improve. It may
be a bit more difficult for them to take up something new and foreign, like
a
new language or slower in learning a new computer programs, but when it
comes
to their own work, they will grow and improve as long as physically
possible.
Joyce A.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Wade Blocker on wed 30 may 01
Diane,
I suggest that you look at the ages of the roster of potters featured in
the over the Summer issue of Ceramics Monthly. Mia in ABQ
becky schroeder on wed 30 may 01
i am an artist with lots of credentials and a degree etc etc but what
happens when people come to see my work at my house? yep, they ohhh and ahh
over the beautiful oil paintings my grandmother did starting at age 85!!! i
have all over the walls in my studio(and it's not because my work is bad
either). gives me a huge thrill and i can't wait to see what i produce as i
age. ps grandma died at 105.
becky
>From: Dannon Rhudy
>Reply-To: Ceramic Arts Discussion List
>To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
>Subject: Re: Important work after the age of 60+++
>Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 13:42:09 -0500
>
>Diane said:
>....learned of a painter who is still working
> >at the age of 103. Is it possible to continue
> >to do good/important work after the age of 60???....
>
>First, I'm curious: was "60" just a random number,
>or did you choose it for a specific reason? Secondly,
>I believe that many people in the visual arts and in
>music, most particularly, often continue to do better
>and better work as they age, if they continue to WORK.
>Lucie Rie did some of her best work in her 70's & 80's,
>and continued to work until she died, at 90-something.
>And no shabby work, either. Val Cushing is doing
>some of his strongest work now, Don Reitz is too,
>Karen Karnes - all well past 60. Well past. In fact,
>someone just handed me the newest CM, and I note an
>article dealing with several older ceramists, most
>of whom are contiuing to work and to explore. Mel Jacobson
>and Kurt Wild are doing some of their best work now,
>Nils Lou has just done a series that is extraordinary.
>Thoughtful work, risky work, fearless work - nothing safe
>nor staid.
>
>...>Is it harder for potters due to the
> >physical nature of the field?......
>
>I really don't think so. If they've taken care of
>themselves, not done too much to injure bones/ligaments
>etc., it's not harder. They just work smarter. And
>because they are physically active by the very nature
>of what they do, they are more likely to stay in good
>healthy strong condition.
>
>....>Aren't lots of people better at what
> >they do after age 60......
>
>Yes, of course they are, if they choose to be. I expect
>your question was a pot-stirrer, rhetorical almost, but -
>a good question, nonetheless.
>
>regards
>
>Dannon Rhudy
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
Lorraine Pierce on wed 30 may 01
Diane, just look at the fantastic portfolio of distinguished potters and
clay artists and their current work, in the June,July, August issue of
Ceramics Monthly and you will wonder no more.I only regret that the
'Recognition' did not include one early pot in each artists' collection to
help the youngest of the newbies understand where these people 'came from'.
Lori Pierce in New Port Richey, Fl.
Diane Mead on thu 31 may 01
Hi Ivor--ALWAYS good to hear your words.
These should be posted on a few billboards across America, in my back yar=
d
and on every street as I am on my way to work...
"Anticipating entering my seventieth year an a few weeks I'm sure there a=
re a lot of folk who lurk on this list who think this geriatric is still =
full of it!!!!" Yahoo IVOR
You ask ge of 60???>
"The next pot I make will be one of the best ever. The next article I wri=
te will be among the most readable I have yet written. The next piece of =
research I conclude will add to my own knowledge and may benefit someone =
else. Why should such things change just because there is a natural proce=
ss the medical profession choose to call "ageing",label those who live th=
at process "geriatrics" and turn it into a service industry called "geron=
tology". No one can reverse the passage of the Arrow of Time. But we can =
grab the shaft and enjoy the flight."
Best regards,>>>
Ivor Lewis. Redhill, South Australia>>>
As USUAL--every Ivor post gives me inspiration to keep on....Aging is onl=
y some silly conspiracy. I don't believe in it any more...
diane in GAGet more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://ex=
plorer.msn.com
Diane Mead on thu 31 may 01
Lori:
Thanks! I am tired and wiped out
and this kind of post helps me hold my head up.
I am really looking forward to the day when I make art
PRIMARILY and do other stuff secondarily. =20
As you supported my feeling that many decades from
now, there will be work to be done, daily
I am excited and inspired and
CAN'T WAIT!
diane in Georgia
----- Original Message -----
From: Lorraine Pierce
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 12:18 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Important work after the age of 60+++
Diane, just look at the fantastic portfolio of distinguished potters and
clay artists and their current work, in the June,July, August issue of
Ceramics Monthly and you will wonder no more.I only regret that the
'Recognition' did not include one early pot in each artists' collection t=
o
help the youngest of the newbies understand where these people 'came fro=
m'.
Lori Pierce in New Port Richey, Fl.Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explo=
rer download : http://explorer.msn.com
Diane Mead on thu 31 may 01
Thanks everybody!!!! I am excited that I might get another few decades(??=
?!!???)
As I mentioned, the early demise of parents in mid-40's makes one think
time is up--thought Grandma Schroeder was still kicking like mad
at 90++++!!!! =20
I hope I get to thrive those extra decades!!!
yahoo!
----- Original Message -----
From: Wade Blocker
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2001 6:42 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: Important work after the age of 60+++
Diane,
I suggest that you look at the ages of the roster of potters featured =
in
the over the Summer issue of Ceramics Monthly. Mia in ABQGet more from th=
e Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
Bacia Edelman on thu 31 may 01
Friends: I have done important work since the age of 60. I had
done some important work in my twenties, thirties etc. I also
did some crap, and hope I had the good sense to discard it at
any age.
That is all I have to say on the subject, except I am back in
the studio after an intensely rough year and a half.
I'd rather put my attention to the subject:
Repairing hairline cracks in greenware. :>))
Regards. Bacia
Bacia Edelman Madison, Wisconsin
http://www.mypots.com/bacia.htm
http://www.silverhawk5.com/edelman/index.html
Steve Mills on fri 1 jun 01
Ye gods and little fishes!
I wish I had been doing what I'm doing now 20 plus years ago; it seems
there is always something new and exciting happening every day now. In
the last few years I've got into using computers as an everyday tool;
vertical learning curve and HUGE fun. Swapped guitar almost completely
for a fretless Bass; now THERE'S a wonderfully sonorous instrument if
ever there was. Started producing the pots I knew were in me but until
recently wouldn't come out and revelling in them. Etc. etc. etc. Now all
I need is a cure for Arthritis and another 24 hours in each day!! not
much to ask don't you think!
Steve
A 64 year (I WON'T say old) pure bred English Mongrel
Having a ball in Bath
UK
See you at Aberystwyth
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Karin Hurt on fri 1 jun 01
My last handbuilding teacher was Oddy Curtis from Oak Ridge, Tennessee. She
taught until she was 90, died at 91.
Karin
Janet Kaiser on sat 2 jun 01
It is because he has the life experience of two 40
year-olds, Lee!
I find it fascinating how old-timers have honed their
manual skills and hand-eye co-ordination so much, they
do the most work with the least of effort.
I see the Old Man of my childhood to this day...
Balance, tempo, strength, all combining into the fluid
movement of a human metronome. Not a single bead of
sweat, no unnecessary move, jerking or disharmony.
Utterly fascinating.
I also remember seeing an old Negro sweeping a street
in N.Y. City... Just as deliberate and slow: covered
the whole street in next to no time. Not hurried, just
methodical and the same rhythm "my" Old Man had.
Give a youngster a broom and compare to the two Old
Men...
Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk
----- Original Message -----
> My teacher, Tatsuzo Shimaoka, is very vigorous at 81.
He does the work of two 40 year olds.
>
> Lee In Mashiko
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