Anita M. Swan on mon 18 jun 01
After many suggestions I finally realized that I could use the leftover slip from Vince's terra sig making method to make Dannon's paper saggars. This was a great relief to me because I was feeling bad about not having clay mixing facilities at my middle school! Now I fire my terra sig'd pieces in paper saggars made from the leftovers. 'Nita
vince pitelka on mon 25 jun 01
> After many suggestions I finally realized that I could use the leftover
slip from Vince's terra sig making method to make Dannon's paper saggars.
This was a great relief to me because I was feeling bad about not having
clay mixing facilities at my middle school! Now I fire my terra sig'd
pieces in paper saggars made from the leftovers. 'Nita
Nita -
This is ingenious, and I thank you for posting such a wise suggestion. But
for someone who does not do paper saggers, it really is not any big thing at
all to throw out the sediments, and it should not be seen as wasteful. It
is just dirt, and most of the good stuff (the finest particles) has been
removed to make the sig. Clay is cheap, all things considered.
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Martin Howard on tue 26 jun 01
I don't agree with the emphasis on JUST! but never mind that.
If your garden is close to the pottery, then there is no problem.
My floor sweepings go onto the vegetable patch. Unwanted ash goes straight
onto the ground and pathways between crops.
Clay that cannot be used for pottery any more goes into the ground for
growing things.
Fine clay dust should even be helpful against certain pests, as the dust
clogs their pores, just as it can clog our lungs. So chuck it down wind!
There is no such thing as rubbish or waste. Perhaps you have heard that
before somewhere :-)
Even an old, unwanted glaze can be left to dry to powder and then added to
the compost heap. The minerals will enrich the heap and eventually the soil
and the crops. The composting process, IMHE, should deal with almost any
problematic combination of minerals which could have caused problems if just
sprayed on crops as a liquid.
I will now wait a few moments for Monona or Edouard to post a strong one:-)
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Holder, Samuel on wed 27 jun 01
If you are using any toxic materials that find themselves in your ash,
glazes or clays... do not put them in your food gardens or in any garden
that may later be used by you or the next resident to grow any sort of food
crops!!! Over the years, toxic minerals, metals,... whatever! can build
up to harmful levels. Children are usually impacted first.
Eat well, and with confidence!
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Howard [mailto:martin@WEBBSCOTTAGE.CO.UK]
Sent: Tuesday, June 26, 2001 2:51 AM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: terra sig leftovers
I don't agree with the emphasis on JUST! but never mind that.
If your garden is close to the pottery, then there is no problem.
My floor sweepings go onto the vegetable patch. Unwanted ash goes straight
onto the ground and pathways between crops.
Clay that cannot be used for pottery any more goes into the ground for
growing things.
Fine clay dust should even be helpful against certain pests, as the dust
clogs their pores, just as it can clog our lungs. So chuck it down wind!
There is no such thing as rubbish or waste. Perhaps you have heard that
before somewhere :-)
Even an old, unwanted glaze can be left to dry to powder and then added to
the compost heap. The minerals will enrich the heap and eventually the soil
and the crops. The composting process, IMHE, should deal with almost any
problematic combination of minerals which could have caused problems if just
sprayed on crops as a liquid.
I will now wait a few moments for Monona or Edouard to post a strong one:-)
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
____________________________________________________________________________
__
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Shirley Tschannen on wed 27 jun 01
Hi Martin, I always enjoy reading your posts and particularly this one
..I'd never have thought of drying out old glazes and spreading their
"remains" in the garden. I guess not directly on the plants but
recycled into the earth where they came from?
Thank you for your wisdom!
Shirley Tschannen
LOGAN OPLINGER on thu 28 jun 01
Hi All,
An experience I had with a local earthenware clay several years ago, possibly indicating that all large clay particles are not completely broken down and individual particles completely dispersed after enough water is first added to make a fluid slip....
About 25-30 pounds of clay had been slaked and dried 4 or 5 times in an effort to get all of the large particles to break down, always adding an excess of water and hand mixing to make the the clay into a creamy, fluid slip. After allowing the clay to settle for a day or two, all water on the surface was drained away and the clay dried. After the final slaking the slip was passed through an 80 mesh sieve, and dried again.
The dried clay was then placed in a large pan on an electric wheel, and enough water added to make a creamy fluid slip. The wheel was then turned on to allow the pan of slip to rotate slowly, and a fixed wooden paddle was lowered into the slip to cause constant stiring. This was allowed to occur overnight.
On returning sometime in the morning the next day I discovered the slip had thickend to the consistency of butter at room temp. More water was added (more than a gallon) to thin the slip, and the stiring allowed to continue during the day (some thickening was noted and more water added) and overnight again.
The following day I noted the slip had again thickened overnight. I could not add more water because the pan was nearly full and some slip had slopped over the rim of the pan where the paddle was closest to the rim.
I suspect that even though apparently enough water had been added to the clay to make a fluid slip, the constant stiring forced more of the larger clay particles to break down even further and be dispersed into the slip, causing it to thicken. Is this a reasonable assumption on my part?
I do not know if it would be worth the effort with some clays to take what is left over after making terra sig., and try to get any of the remaining large particles of clay to break down even further so as to extract more terra sig. A lot would depend on how much of a clay body is non-clay particles, and how much of the remaining incompletely dispersed particles can be further broken down as fine as possible.
Yes, clay is cheap, and local clays even free if the work component in digging and transporting them is ignored, but it would be nice within reason not to have to "throw away" a large portion of it where so much time and effort have already been expended in collecting and processing.
Logan Oplinger
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Martin Howard on thu 28 jun 01
Samuel Holder's view is quite common.
But it is incorrect and leads to us eating junk food, grown with artificial
fertilizers and living and eating under ultra sterile conditions.
That leads to imbalance within ourselves and our society with subsequent ill
health and open to any strange bugs that come our way.
Perhaps that sterile/chemical view and the organic approach is the real war
of the moment.
Consider the various patches of ground on which you live, work and play.
Think of the rocks beneath you and all the minerals they contain.
Think of the soil that has been created from those rocks and the great
variety within that.
Consider the poisonous minerals, plants and other creatures which have grown
and decomposed into those soils and even formed the original rocks.
Any one item, taken by itself, taken without balance, could kill you.
But each mineral component, in balance, is necessary for you to live a full
and healthy life.
It is like our glazes. The right balance brings the smile, too much of
something brings the opposite.
The compost heap, properly prepared and nurtured, is our means of creating
balance.
Of course we should not tip out a raw kilogram of cadmium on the compost
heap.
It would take a long time for the animal and plant life there to balance
that lot up!
But what potter is using such stuff in such quantities?
Our poisons are in small quantities.
Most material is ground up rock.
Even lead is there if your soil comes from a limestone basal rock.
Ground up rock is the RM of good soil and therefore healthy plants and
healthy humans.
Left over terra sig is clay, so it is as harmless in the vegetable garden as
anything could be. (Unless it is a mighty strange terra sig which I have
never heard of :-) in which case put in the compost heap first.)
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Christena Schafale on thu 28 jun 01
Martin,
Although on the whole I am much in sympathy with your point of view, I have
to disagree to an extent. I agree that there is no harm in putting most
components of clay or glaze into your garden -- feldspars, clays, silica,
won't do any harm, and they are, as you say, what makes up the soil in the
first place. And since most (not all) terra sigs are made simply with clay
and no colorants, dumping your (unstained) terra sig leftovers is probably
harmless.
BUT, the colorants that we use in glazes are normally present in very low
concentrations in the soil (with the exception of iron). When you dump a
whole bucketful of a chrome-green glaze in your compost, you are adding a
much higher concentration of a toxic material than would ever be there
naturally. By your reasoning, the toxic waste dumps created by mining, for
instance, are no problem because all that stuff came out of the earth to
begin with. On the contrary, they are a problem precisely because they
have been removed from the earth, concentrated at the surface, and left to
leach into soil and water supplies.
Further, I don't think the bacterial action of composting is going to do a
thing to change the concentrations of toxic minerals. By and large (and I
am willing to be educated on this, if need be), I believe that the
bacterial action in compost breaks down organic materials, but does not
remove or change the toxicity of minerals. (I know that there are
specialized situations where bacteria have been used to bind toxic
materials, but I don't think that this is the norm.) When those minerals
are put on your garden, if they are taken up by plants, they end up
where? -- on your dinner plate! If they are not taken up, they may leach
into the ground water, where they may eventually end up in your water glass.
So go ahead and dump your glazes in the garden, as long as you don't put
anything into your glazes that you would object to eating or drinking.
Chris
who has a compost pile and gardens organically
At 12:45 PM 6/28/01 +0100, you wrote:
>Samuel Holder's view is quite common.
>But it is incorrect and leads to us eating junk food, grown with artificial
>fertilizers and living and eating under ultra sterile conditions.
>That leads to imbalance within ourselves and our society with subsequent ill
>health and open to any strange bugs that come our way.
>
>Perhaps that sterile/chemical view and the organic approach is the real war
>of the moment.
>
>Consider the various patches of ground on which you live, work and play.
>Think of the rocks beneath you and all the minerals they contain.
>Think of the soil that has been created from those rocks and the great
>variety within that.
>Consider the poisonous minerals, plants and other creatures which have grown
>and decomposed into those soils and even formed the original rocks.
>
>Any one item, taken by itself, taken without balance, could kill you.
>But each mineral component, in balance, is necessary for you to live a full
>and healthy life.
>
>It is like our glazes. The right balance brings the smile, too much of
>something brings the opposite.
>
>The compost heap, properly prepared and nurtured, is our means of creating
>balance.
>Of course we should not tip out a raw kilogram of cadmium on the compost
>heap.
>It would take a long time for the animal and plant life there to balance
>that lot up!
>But what potter is using such stuff in such quantities?
>Our poisons are in small quantities.
>Most material is ground up rock.
>Even lead is there if your soil comes from a limestone basal rock.
>Ground up rock is the RM of good soil and therefore healthy plants and
>healthy humans.
>
>Left over terra sig is clay, so it is as harmless in the vegetable garden as
>anything could be. (Unless it is a mighty strange terra sig which I have
>never heard of :-) in which case put in the compost heap first.)
>
>Martin Howard
>Webb's Cottage Pottery
>Woolpits Road, Great Saling
>BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
>England
>
>martin@webbscottage.co.uk
>http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
>
>______________________________________________________________________________
>Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
>You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
>settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
>Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
>melpots@pclink.com.
Consultation and Referral Specialist
Resources for Seniors
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www.resourcesforseniors.com
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Raleigh, NC 27609
Martin Howard on thu 28 jun 01
Christena says materials, but does not remove or change the toxicity of minerals.>
Actually this is not correct IMHE.
Many years ago I was involved with clearing up contaminated land, as a Town
Planner.
I was also a member of the Soil Association at the time and now a life
member of the HDRA, the foremost organic centre in the UK.
We found that there were plants which took up the heavy metal components of
contaminated land and changed them in chemical form. When composted the
results were an improvement of the land so affected. One plant, from memory,
was dandelion for excess copper. Others can be seen colonising waste dumps
of particular minerals. We learn by observing.
Bacterial and plant action can change the chemistry of minerals.
You can follow that through by studying the books by the British scientist,
James Lovelock, but I expect there are many other sources of similar
information now.
Balance is necessary to Gaia and the organic approach can take care of most
of our actions.
Our more foolish actions cause Gaia more of a headache and we may not agree
that the new position of balance is to our liking: but that is human
thinking rather than earth thought.
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Marcella Smith on thu 28 jun 01
Christena, you could not have said that better. Being a nurse in my =
non-art job, it was distressing to read about dumping glaze and toxic =
chemicals in compost and thinking that 'nature' will detoxify them, WOW! =
I was afraid that people would have read this and done it, one person =
commented on children being the worst recipient of digesting this heavy =
metals, but the unborn developing fetus would be!!!!
Thank you for writing it out in an understanding way for those who might =
have a misunderstanding of the powers of this polluted (and getting =
worse) earth.
Marcella
***Serf on over to www.livinggallery.cc for the latest in fine-art =
available for your home or office! Check out the WEEKLY SPECIALS!!***
Martin Howard on fri 29 jun 01
Yes, I agree with much of what Samuel says, but this ending bit takes us
right back.
Just how does one dispose of toxic material properly?
1 Avoid toxic materials in the first place.
2 If it is necessary to use such materials, then it should be YOUR duty
to dispose of them properly.
As we do not have connection to mains drainage, we are naturally very
careful about what goes down the loo or sink. It all comes back onto the
vegetable garden in much diluted form.
Therefore anything which cannot be reduced, reused or recycled is composted
or burnt to ash and the ash used in glaze, where I know it is safe. If the
ash is possibly unsafe, it gets used in pathways, concrete etc. i.e.
disposed of properly, in my terms.
I suspect that those on mains drainage pass the buck to the civic
authorities and add to the pollution of many acres of sewage sludge treated
land.
Do other Clayarters have other ethical methods of solving this problem,
which don't involve passing the buck down the line? Or do you, like me, take
a pragmatic attitude, taking into account the final percentage of possibly
toxic material into account and the dilution and other actions the future
host material will have on it?
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
Holder, Samuel on fri 29 jun 01
I have studied toxic metals and minerals in the environment as a biologist.
I agree that balance is an important factor or goal for a harmonious life.
Often knowledge tempers the fulcrum of decision making that keeps us from
disrupting our balance. I feel that a few important generalized points are
needed here concerning mineral and metal up-take by plants; their toxicity
to plants; and their toxicity to the animals and humans that eat those
plants.
As you point out some plants take-up metals and minerals and shift their
chemical forms and tonicities.
The land in your example was improved because the plants extracted the
metals of interest from the soil and stored them in their tissues. Some
plants and animals store metals in their tissues at higher concentrations
than are found in the soils where they grow or the plants that they eat.
This is called "bio-magnification." When composted, those tissues are
consumed by a variety of "composting organisms", which either store the
metals in their tissues or excrete them. This process dilutes the minerals
and may shift the chemical compositions of some of these minerals. Often
these processes form organic compounds that contain these metals; in this
organic form, metals are often more readily incorporated into the tissues of
animals or plants that consume them. Some of these altered forms (mineral
or organic) are less toxic, some are more toxic and some make no significant
shift.
All of this is very complicated since each metal and mineral reacts somewhat
differently and each species of plant and animal handles toxic metals and
minerals somewhat differently. Balance is too easily disrupted by a
mistake. Correcting a toxicity problem is expensive.
I would not want to test these complexities with the health of my food
crops, children, or people that will use the land after I move on.
The simple solution is to not put potentially toxic things in a garden or
other ground that may be used to raise food. Instead, dispose of them
properly.
Eat well and with confidence!
-----Original Message-----
From: Martin Howard [mailto:martin@WEBBSCOTTAGE.CO.UK]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 5:12 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: terra sig leftovers
Christena says materials, but does not remove or change the toxicity of minerals.>
Actually this is not correct IMHE.
Many years ago I was involved with clearing up contaminated land, as a Town
Planner.
I was also a member of the Soil Association at the time and now a life
member of the HDRA, the foremost organic centre in the UK.
We found that there were plants which took up the heavy metal components of
contaminated land and changed them in chemical form. When composted the
results were an improvement of the land so affected. One plant, from memory,
was dandelion for excess copper. Others can be seen colonising waste dumps
of particular minerals. We learn by observing.
Bacterial and plant action can change the chemistry of minerals.
You can follow that through by studying the books by the British scientist,
James Lovelock, but I expect there are many other sources of similar
information now.
Balance is necessary to Gaia and the organic approach can take care of most
of our actions.
Our more foolish actions cause Gaia more of a headache and we may not agree
that the new position of balance is to our liking: but that is human
thinking rather than earth thought.
Martin Howard
Webb's Cottage Pottery
Woolpits Road, Great Saling
BRAINTREE, Essex CM7 5DZ
England
martin@webbscottage.co.uk
http://www.webbscottage.co.uk
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
vince pitelka on sun 1 jul 01
> Yes, I agree with much of what Samuel says, but this ending bit takes us
> right back.
> Just how does one dispose of toxic material properly?
Martin -
Like so many things in life, this has to be dealt with in a reasonable
fashion. Some people say that the only appropriate way to dispose of toxic
materials is to turn them over to an appropriate toxic waste disposal site.
But then what the hell to they do with those materials? For us, the
solution is relatively easy. Put the material to be discarded in a bisque
bowl and fire it, and then just dump the resulting fired mass in the trash.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
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