dan mickey on fri 29 jun 01
i agree with lee here, i have a great example as to how a name or label can
effect things, lets take the mid eighties cadillac cimmeran, do you remember
that one everybody? it was entirely the same as the chevy model it looked
like, the cavaliar i think? These were both huge pieces of shit, it didnt do
you any better to pay the extra thousands for the caddy cause it fell apart
just as fast if not faster. This is a well known fact in the automotive
circles, And people obviously buy due to labels. If you are upset, or on the
side of people who claim there is an inner circle in the ceramics world, or
that there is a "club", then you have no one to blame but yourself. if these
so called club people didnt sign their work would they be famous? got me!
I have to stick my neck out here and say that as americans we have become
over obssesed with labels, if you don't believe this than you are blind to
that fact. WE no longer have large department stores that carry several
brands of clothing, now we have the gap, old navy, aber whatever and
whatnot! sears and jcpenny have to try and make their own stuff under fancy
names.
A very wise person once told me that restraint is the most important thing
in life, well we have lost all control of our restraint in america, now
don't get me wrong america isn't alone in this respect but i think we are
the worse (we did give birth to the SUV?)
in the end i think it is more important to have integrity, and try to
produce honest work that has the "life" that we talk about. do you use that
word in describing the way you want to work? Hello that is mackenzie all the
way.
its not about the potter himself, thats vain! its about the work, and when
the work speaks of the potter, well then its good! thats all, simple.
shane
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Matt MacIntire on sat 30 jun 01
shane makes an excellent point:
>> its not about the potter himself, thats vain! its
>> about the work, and when the work speaks of the
>> potter, well then its good!
I agree that what we value is present in the work itself. When an artist
creates something which speaks to us, such work often reveals much about the
maker as well. When a potter reveals himself through lively work, a
signature seems immaterial.
Matt
Lee Love on sat 30 jun 01
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Hendley"
> I continue to be amazed that potters think it is a virtue to not identify
> their work.
> It's shrouded in the guise of humility, but is really quite arrogant.
It is arrogant to think we can know another's motivation from the inside
of our own heads.
> Ha, ha, ha, ha.
> So we're testing people to tell if they are worthy of owning a pot?
Knowledge is more important than a lable. Buy jeans because of their
quality, not because the girls will like the Levi tag on your butt.
> The whole point of handmade pottery in the 21st century is to give the
> buyer and/or user a connection with the maker.
Yes. Hopefully we do this by making a good pot. This is the best
signature we can sign.
>Anything that enhances the
> connection is a good thing. If you want unmarked pottery, go stock up
> at Wal-Mart (only the really cheap stuff, because the better quality things
> will be identified).
Put your mark in the pot. When you visit the shops in Mashiko, there
is no difficulty in know which pots are the Hamada's, which pots were make by
his Shokunin and decorated by him, and which pots were kiln pots, even though
he did not sign his work. You can see many copies of Hamada too, but there is
no mistaking them for Hamada's. As Hamada said, the workman potter only has his
character. If is has character, it will undeniably show up in his work.
> It does not take principles and character to not identify your work,
> it just takes skipping a step in the production process.
It all depends on the potter. Intent is the key. And again, it is
arrogance to think we know the motivation of another potter, just from our
thoughts in our head.
> It's not a bad thing to include the reputation of the maker as one of the
> variables that determines the price of something.
A reputation or identity is not dependent upon a stamp or a signature on
a pot. The reputation of the maker, if the work is strong enough and contains
the character of the maker, is in the work itself.
> I regularly pay more for a product because of the 'signature' that's
> on it.
Many people buy Levis or Harley Davisions just for the name instead of
judging the object for its inherent quality. That is when a lable causes
trouble.
> Only people with experience, and a BFA in wrench-making, would be
> able to distinguish between different makers, and to them would go
> the just rewards of knowing the best wrench to buy.
No BFA required. But we shouldn't be blinded simply by marketing.
If you are knowledgable about wrenches, you can tell a good one from a bad one
by looking at it. When labels are not depended upon for marketing, a stronger
relationship can be made between the maker and the user.
At the pottery workshop, we have several good old-fashioned axes of
superb quality. They have no marks on them. When I went to the hardware
to buy a new one for my own workshop, I could only find ones stamped with the
maker's signature. They are a poor copy of the old anonymous tools.
Because we've turned into such sheep in these times, we are easily controlled
by what we are told what is supposed to be good, rather than looking and judging
for ourselves. It doesn't require a BFA to educate ourselves. It just takes
a little work.
--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
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