Lee Love on sun 1 jul 01
----- Original Message -----
From: "iandol"
>Now I would not be able to say which pot has been made by
>which famous potter or identify those which are copies...
Hi Ivor. David's tangent was about using brand labels or origin of
manufacture to know the quality of an object. Some of this in the past has
been too dependent upon nationalistic stereotypes. Not many years ago the
term, "Made in Japan", was synonymous with shoddy craftsmanship. Currently, in
Japan, the craftsmanship of American made cars is not too highly regarded The
most frequent foreign made cars you see here are Mercedes and BMWs, because of
the reputation of their craftsmanship. The Japanese are not aware that the
quality of American cars, especially the small ones, have improved in recent
years. Much of this improvement was due to competition Japanese cars have put on
American manufacturers. Probably, the two most frequent American cars I see
here in Japan are the Jeep Cherokee and Conversion Chevy Astro Vans. But they
are specialty vehicles.
Knowing the quality of the craftsmanship of an object is a much
simpler task than identifying the individual craftsman. Quality can be based
upon general principles. Knowing who the exact maker is depends on familiarity
with the maker's work.
When I asked my late zen teacher's wife (she is a tea ceremony
instructor) to tell me what the good qualities were that make a tea bowl, she
told me, "Make tea in the teabowl and you will know if it is a good teabowl or
not." From the use of an object or tool, you can learn what qualities come
together to create a good one, and in the future, you can go out and base your
choice on this education, experience and a trained eye and hand.
>Other than by experience, is it possible to attain that
> advanced degree of connoisseurship?
I believe experience is the key. When pots are brought to the
workshop for evaluation, Sensei often asks Fukiyan, the 76 year old retired
Forman, to examine the object. I've seen inquiries from America about Hamada
pots and Sensei will consult with Fukiyan about the photos (Fukiyan started his
pottery career with Hamada when Fukiyan was 14.) Experience and a trained
eye is what is required.
I know that here in Japan, Shoji Hamada's son Shinsaku, is often asked
to evaluate pots that are thought to be his father's for authenticity. I've
seen boxes signed by Shinsaku-Sensei verifying that the work was made by his
father. No doubt, he has an old Shokunin like Fukiyan that he consults with.
I would like to find out.
--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
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iandol on sun 1 jul 01
Dear Lee Love,
I thoroughly enjoy reading your contributions to clayart and appreciate =
the information you provide. However I have a feeling that this =
discussion is not about W. M. or signing pots but about =
Connoisseurship, a concept which is brought out in your statement you are knowledgable about wrenches, you can tell a good one from a bad =
one by looking at it.> and your references to Axes.
Now I would not be able to say which pot has been made by which famous =
potter or identify those which are copies regardless of a makers mark or =
a certificate of authenticity. So perhaps you, or the others who have =
said they can identify makers without the mark might make an inventory =
of qualities which are observed which would enable any one distinguish =
between the true pot or axe and the faux or between a fine example and a =
poor example from one maker.
Other than by experience, is it possible to attain that advanced degree =
of connoisseurship?
Best regards,
Ivor Lewis
Lee Love on sun 1 jul 01
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Love"
> Knowing the quality of the craftsmanship of an object is a
much
> simpler task than identifying the individual craftsman. Quality can be based
> upon general principles. Knowing who the exact maker is depends on
familiarity
> with the maker's work.
I need to clarify this. Learning general principles is
"practically" easier because it doesn't require living near a specific craftsman
to be extensively exposed to their work, which is important in MacKenzie's case,
because most of his work is sold from his workshop. Actually, developing an
eye for quality is more difficult than just learning the characteristics of a
specific makers pots. Being able to identify a specific maker's work also
depends upon the amount of identity a craftsman puts into his work. If they
are just copying souvenir or other generic pots, it is probably more difficult
to see the individual in the work.
Lee In Mashiko
--
Lee Love
Mashiko JAPAN Ikiru@kami.com
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Matt MacIntire on sun 1 jul 01
Ivor wrote:
>> perhaps you, or the others who have said they can identify
>> makers without the mark might make an inventory of qualities
>> which are observed which would enable any one distinguish
>> between the true pot or axe and the faux or between a fine
>> example and a poor example from one maker
pardon me if I butt in... I won't argue, I promise
When we meet someone, we are able to recognize their face again another day.
However, we could not draw up a list of specific characteristics we
inventory as we learn to recognize someone's face. We all have this ability
to recognize faces without even knowing how. Humans are phenomenally gifted
at pattern recognition. Does anyone REALLY how we do this? Those who study
artificial intelligence would certainly be eager to learn.
There are many similar examples of skills that are not well understood...
Exactly how does an outfielder know how far back to go when someone hits a
long fly ball?
How could he explain this ability? Imagine how meager a physicist's
Newtonian description of the flight of the ball is, in comparison to the
outfielder's skill.
How does a squirrel remember where all those nuts are buried?
I see no reason why the ability to recognize pottery styles should be
considered a black art. Though I am sometimes amazed that we can do it at
all.
It would seem to me that being a connoisseur of pottery is like anything
else.
Skill comes from desire -- and practice.
Matt
Ababi on mon 2 jul 01
Will you please direct me to a site where I can see a work of his, I feel
very primitive and uneducated not knowing who is Warren MacKenzie!
Ababi
The Slades on wed 4 jul 01
These are the only two sites I have found. There is a book about him that is
now out of print, called Warren MacKenzie, Potter : A Retrospective. ISBN #
0938713051 If anyone knows where to find a copy of it, let me know.
Doris Slade
Earthsong Pottery
http://hudson.acad.umn.edu/collection/mack.html
http://www.studiopottery.com/potters/mackenziewarren.html
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ababi"
To:
Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: Warren MacKenzie and Let The Work Speak For Itself
> Will you please direct me to a site where I can see a work of his, I feel
> very primitive and uneducated not knowing who is Warren MacKenzie!
> Ababi
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