Earl Brunner on wed 18 jul 01
Kathleen, you are mixing up the 19 hours that it took to fire with 19
killowatt hours. You did not use 19 killowatts in 19 hours. A kilowatt
hour is simply a measurement of electricity. For example, if your power
bill is running you $300.00 per month, then you have used 2727.2727...
kilowattkilowattkilowatt hours of elctricity at $.11 per kilowatt hour.
There are only 720 hours in a month (approx).
Gordon wrote:
> At the last minute i did some firing for the studio that i work for.. their
> kiln was down and the work had to be done.. they asked me to charge them
> for the electricity as well as labor... the labor is easy but the
> electricty does not make sense.....
> I got the cost per killowatt hour from the electric co in my town
> but somehow the result does not make any sense to me..seems like it should
> be more looking at my electric bill of $300
> here are the particulars...
> the kiln was a 1027 skutt..fired slowly for bisque of 04.. it took
> 19hours:26 minutes to complete the firing ... the electric company says I
> pay .11cents per killowatt hour..... is it possible that this firing only
> cost $2.11(that is the hours x the cost per hour).... it seems too cheap to
> me.. is there something that i am missing....help anyone?
>
> Kathleen Gordon
> Palo Alto, Ca 94301
> 650-328-9164
> fax 650-328-9113
> email:kjgordon1@homail.com
--
Earl Brunner
http://coyote.accessnv.com/bruec/
bruec@anv.net
m markey on wed 18 jul 01
Daine says:
"The root of your problem is that a Kilowatt hour is not the same as an
hour. I can't explain the kWh; someone else on the list surely will."
=====================
Hi Diane:
A kilowatt hour is the measurement of kilowatts used in an hour's time. One
kilowatt=1,000 watts.
Something that's using electricity constantly, like a kiln, is much easier
to figure Kwh, than lights and appliances that are turned on and off during
a given hour.
Best wishes!
Mohabee NakedClay@hotmail.com
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
Gordon on wed 18 jul 01
At the last minute i did some firing for the studio that i work for.. their
kiln was down and the work had to be done.. they asked me to charge them
for the electricity as well as labor... the labor is easy but the
electricty does not make sense.....
I got the cost per killowatt hour from the electric co in my town
but somehow the result does not make any sense to me..seems like it should
be more looking at my electric bill of $300
here are the particulars...
the kiln was a 1027 skutt..fired slowly for bisque of 04.. it took
19hours:26 minutes to complete the firing ... the electric company says I
pay .11cents per killowatt hour..... is it possible that this firing only
cost $2.11(that is the hours x the cost per hour).... it seems too cheap to
me.. is there something that i am missing....help anyone?
Kathleen Gordon
Palo Alto, Ca 94301
650-328-9164
fax 650-328-9113
email:kjgordon1@homail.com
"if things seem under control then you are not going fast enough!"
Mario Andretti
L. P. Skeen on wed 18 jul 01
Kathleen,
When I figured out the firing on my kiln, (about the same kiln, only
Paragon), I too was surprised at how little it cost, but I'd think that $2.
is low.
I had my next door neighbor the electrician come on over and figure out the
amps the kiln draws on each setting. (Your kiln draws more power when on hi
than when on med. and low...) Then called the electric company and they
converted the amps to KWH (prolly used more of that damn Algebra...), then I
figured out the time the kiln was on low, med, and high, respectively, and
added up the KWH, then multiplied by cost per KWH.
End result, I don't live in California, where I am under the impression
that electric prices are higher, and my cost to fire the same size kiln as
yours to ^6 at 2 hours on low, 2 on medium, 6 on high is something on the
order of $8.25
YMMV, of course.
Lisa
From: Gordon
Subject: cost of firing
> I got the cost per killowatt hour from the electric co in my town
> but somehow the result does not make any sense to me..seems like it should
> be more looking at my electric bill of $300
> here are the particulars...
> the kiln was a 1027 skutt..fired slowly for bisque of 04.. it took
> 19hours:26 minutes to complete the firing ... the electric company says I
> pay .11cents per killowatt hour..... is it possible that this firing only
> cost $2.11(that is the hours x the cost per hour).... it seems too cheap
to
> me.. is there something that i am missing....help anyone?
Valerie Hawkins on wed 18 jul 01
I think a kilowatt hour is 1,000 watts per hour. My 3.29 cu ft. kiln is a
5,040 watt kiln. I'm assuming that if I run this for an hour, I use about
5,040 watts, which at $.11 per hour would cost me about $.55 and a 20 hour
firing would be about $11.00.
Now, it's been along time since I last took physics so I could be dead
wrong! If anyone knows for sure please pass the info along as I would like
to calculate this as a cost of business.
Thanks,
Valerie
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Gordon
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 2:31 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: cost of firing
At the last minute i did some firing for the studio that i work for.. their
kiln was down and the work had to be done.. they asked me to charge them
for the electricity as well as labor... the labor is easy but the
electricty does not make sense.....
I got the cost per killowatt hour from the electric co in my town
but somehow the result does not make any sense to me..seems like it should
be more looking at my electric bill of $300
here are the particulars...
the kiln was a 1027 skutt..fired slowly for bisque of 04.. it took
19hours:26 minutes to complete the firing ... the electric company says I
pay .11cents per killowatt hour..... is it possible that this firing only
cost $2.11(that is the hours x the cost per hour).... it seems too cheap to
me.. is there something that i am missing....help anyone?
Kathleen Gordon
Palo Alto, Ca 94301
650-328-9164
fax 650-328-9113
email:kjgordon1@homail.com
"if things seem under control then you are not going fast enough!"
Mario Andretti
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Diane Winters on wed 18 jul 01
Kathleen,
The root of your problem is that a Kilowatt hour is not the same as an hour.
I can't explain the kWh; someone else on the list surely will.
But I can provide you with some guidelines on Kilowatt usage in a Skutt
1027. My studio is in a 7 member coop in Berkeley, where we each have our
electric kilns individually metered, and we each log our usage for each
firing.
You said the firing was slow, but 19 1/2 hours to ^04 sounds VERY slow
indeed. You don't mention your rate of increase (how long on low & med, if
firing manually, or what program if using a kiln controller - am guessing
kiln controller based on the way you specified the time). Sounds like the
kiln was stacked really tight, or your elements are very old, or you were
being understandably especially cautious, 'cause it wasn't your work.
As I'm at home now, and my records are at my studio, the following is off
the top of my head. Also, I'm doing tile so my usage may not be exactly
comparable to your situation. My ^05 bisques use anywhere from 55-80 kWh
depending on the stack and age of elements. My hour ^6 glaze firings use
85-120, again depending. Currently my ^6 fires are running about 14 hours
and using about 118kWh.
When I get to the studio this afternoon, I'll check some of the other
members' logs (who do functional pottery) and call to give you some
averages.
p.s. Watch out for the imminent CA electric rate increases. In our latest
bill the rate went to 22 cents per kWh!! (was 16 cents as of last bill, and
11 cents before that). We get a light industrial rate, which has
traditionally been a little lower than what homeowners get, but the ratios
may have changed.
Regards,
Diane
(in Berkeley/Oakland relishing sun, blue skies, 73 degrees, but beginning to
wonder just how many photovoltaic panels it would take to reach ^6)
Kathleen wrote:
> I got the cost per killowatt hour from the electric co in my town
>but somehow the result does not make any sense to me..seems like it should
>be more looking at my electric bill of $300
> here are the particulars...
> the kiln was a 1027 skutt..fired slowly for bisque of 04.. it took
>19hours:26 minutes to complete the firing ... the electric company says I
>pay .11cents per killowatt hour..... is it possible that this firing only
>cost $2.11(that is the hours x the cost per hour).... it seems too cheap to
>me.. is there something that i am missing....help anyone?
>
Snail Scott on wed 18 jul 01
The Skutt 1027's are rated for around 11,000 watts
(eleven kilowatts) at maximum power, (it's printed
on the metal plaque rivetted to the side,) so you need
to multiply the number of hours you spent on 'high',
times the kilowatts (eleven), times the electric rate,
to get your total usage. The lower settings will
use less power, of course. I estimate mine based on
the assumption that 'low' uses 1/3 the power of 'high',
and that 'medium' uses 2/3 the power of 'high'. (Maybe
Skutt can tell you more exactly, I'm just guessing.)
If you forgot to figure the number of kilowatts used
by the kiln, I think it exactly accounts for the
discrepancy in your cost calculation.
If you want to be approximately accurate, do the
math based on number of hours at each setting.
Hours at 'low' x 11 x .33 = ____
Hours at 'med' x 11 x .66 = ____
Hours at 'high' x 11 = ____
Add these three numbers together.
Then multiply the total by your electric rate per
kilowatt-hour.
That is your estimated cost of power.
-Snail
Stephani Stephenson on wed 18 jul 01
Kathleen
It would only cost $2 if your kiln was drawing only one kilowatt per
hour. One way to figure out costs, if your kiln is in a studio which is
metered separately is to read the meter before and after. This will tell
you the KWH you actually use during the firing. If there are other
electrical appliances in the studio, shut them down during the course of
the firing at least for one firing so you can get a fairly accurate
number.
Of course it is more complicated, but still possible , if you are using
a meter which measures household as well as studio usage.
Skutt manual has a formula for figuring cost of firing. 1027 draws 48
amps with all three switches on. Have to retrieve my manual to find the
rest.
Skutt website may also prove useful if you no longer have a manual.
P.S. Be sure you use the REAL amount you pay per kwh. For example on the
power bill here it says we are only paying around 7 cents per kwh.
However, further down on the bill are extra charges for things like '
power transmission charges' which have ballooned up to 20 cents per
kwh.
So read your power bill CAREFULLY, the real kwh cost is not always
apparent at first glance.
Stephani
Carlsbad CA
steph@alchemiestudio.com
Kathleen wrote: the kiln was a 1027 skutt..fired slowly for bisque of
04.. it took
> 19hours:26 minutes to complete the firing ... the electric company
says I
> pay .11cents per killowatt hour..... is it possible that this firing
only
> cost $2.11(that is the hours x the cost per hour).... it seems too
cheap
to
Richard Jeffery on thu 19 jul 01
it might be worth considering that your real cost of firing, just like any
machine, is not just the fuel, but also the depreciation? This can be as
complex or as simple as you or your accountant want to make it, but it's
worth thinking about.... If you are able to estimate your maintenance costs
for the kiln, you should be able to allocate an hourly charge for that too.
Lastly, you shouldn't ignore your time - even if you end up making a gift of
that to the eventual recipient.
Richard
Bournemouth UK
www.TheEleventhHour.co.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Stephani Stephenson
Sent: 18 July 2001 23:23
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: cost of firing
Kathleen
It would only cost $2 if your kiln was drawing only one kilowatt per
hour. One way to figure out costs, if your kiln is in a studio which is
metered separately is to read the meter before and after. This will tell
you the KWH you actually use during the firing. If there are other
electrical appliances in the studio, shut them down during the course of
the firing at least for one firing so you can get a fairly accurate
number.
Of course it is more complicated, but still possible , if you are using
a meter which measures household as well as studio usage.
Skutt manual has a formula for figuring cost of firing. 1027 draws 48
amps with all three switches on. Have to retrieve my manual to find the
rest.
Skutt website may also prove useful if you no longer have a manual.
P.S. Be sure you use the REAL amount you pay per kwh. For example on the
power bill here it says we are only paying around 7 cents per kwh.
However, further down on the bill are extra charges for things like '
power transmission charges' which have ballooned up to 20 cents per
kwh.
So read your power bill CAREFULLY, the real kwh cost is not always
apparent at first glance.
Stephani
Carlsbad CA
steph@alchemiestudio.com
Kathleen wrote: the kiln was a 1027 skutt..fired slowly for bisque of
04.. it took
> 19hours:26 minutes to complete the firing ... the electric company
says I
> pay .11cents per killowatt hour..... is it possible that this firing
only
> cost $2.11(that is the hours x the cost per hour).... it seems too
cheap
to
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
Stephani Stephenson on thu 19 jul 01
Richard wrote:
it might be worth considering that your real cost of firing, just like
any
machine, is not just the fuel, but also the depreciation? This can be
as
complex or as simple as you or your accountant want to make it, but it's
worth thinking about.... If you are able to estimate your maintenance
costs
for the kiln, you should be able to allocate an hourly charge for that
too.
Lastly, you shouldn't ignore your time - even if you end up making a
gift of
that to the eventual recipient.
That's a good idea Richard, especially for the businessperson
Same thing applies when you look as business use of a vehicle.
Here in US you can allow about 35 cents per mile for use of your
vehicle.
That is higher than actual cost of gasoline you put in the tank
(though I am not so sure it is that high anymore relative to some
vehicles and gas prices)
but that number takes into account the wear and tear and depreciation of
the vehicle as well.
Stephani Stephenson
Carlsbad CA
steph@alchemiestudio.com
CINDI ANDERSON on fri 20 jul 01
Oh I wish I could throw pots like I can do math.
Anyway, here's how it goes.
1000 Watts for 1 hour is a kW (kiloWatt) hour.
Watt = amps * volts
A 100 watt lightbulb on for 10 hours is 1000 watt hours, or 1 kiloWatt hour
(100*watt*10*hour=1000 watt hour = 1 kW hour)
If your electricity costs 11c per kWhr, it cost you 11c to run that light
bulb for 10 hours.
(or just over 1 cent an hour)
For a kiln:
If you kiln is a 40 amp kiln that runs at 240v... the maximum you could use, if the
kiln was full blast all the time is:
40amp*240v=9600 watts or 9.6 kW
If you ran you kiln for 10 hours on high, that would be 96kW hours
If your power costs 11c per kWh, then it is 96*0.11=$10.56
Of course your kiln doesn't run on high all the time, so 1/3 to 1/2 of that number
is typical, depending on how fast you fire.
Most people are surprised when they find how low this number is. We complain about
electricity, but really has just gone up from where it was. It still seems pretty
cheap to me.
Cindi
ps Here is the link to the page that was mentioned with the tip I wrote on this.
http://www.bigceramicstore.com/Information/tip16.htm
David Hewitt on fri 20 jul 01
The best way to know the cost of firing is to have a meter installed in
the supply to the kiln. This is not expensive. Not only do you know
exactly what your kiln is costing, but it also serves as a very useful
diagnostic tool. As the elements get older the kiln takes more kWh to
achieve a firing. To know what increase you are getting helps in judging
when elements should be changed on economic grounds. Also, and perhaps
of greater value is that, in event of one element or one component in an
element circuit failing (e.g. connector or regulator), you can readily
check which one it is by turning only one element on at a time.
I always read the kWh meter each hour and log the reading next to the
temperature when I carry out any firing. With experience of previous
firings it seems as informative, as to the progress of the firing, as
the temperature reading.
David
--
David Hewitt
David Hewitt Pottery ,
7 Fairfield Road, Caerleon, Newport,
South Wales, NP18 3DQ, UK. Tel:- +44 (0) 1633 420647
FAX:- +44 (0) 870 1617274
Web site http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk
Seeds Art Gallery on fri 20 jul 01
Does one contact the local electric company to install this meter or does
one just call an electrician? I'd like to have a meter to know how much
electricity my studio uses -- it'd be good to have that split off from my
house but there's only one meter for both.
Thanks,
Valerie von Bergen
Denton, TX
> The best way to know the cost of firing is to have a meter installed in
> the supply to the kiln. This is not expensive. >
David Hewitt on sat 21 jul 01
Call an electrician. You do not need to call the electricity supply
company as this is an additional meter and not one used for billing.
I am in the UK, but presume that the same would apply in the USA.
David
In message , Seeds Art Gallery writes
> Does one contact the local electric company to install this meter or doe=
>s
>one just call an electrician? I'd like to have a meter to know how much
>electricity my studio uses -- it'd be good to have that split off from my
>house but there's only one meter for both.
>
>Thanks,
>Valerie von Bergen
>Denton, TX
>
>> The best way to know the cost of firing is to have a meter installed in
>> the supply to the kiln. This is not expensive. >
--
David Hewitt
David Hewitt Pottery ,
7 Fairfield Road, Caerleon, Newport,
South Wales, NP18 3DQ, UK. Tel:- +44 (0) 1633 420647
FAX:- +44 (0) 870 1617274
Web site http://www.dhpot.demon.co.uk
Steve Mills on sun 22 jul 01
In the UK you can get 2nd hand meters from a number of sources like our
local magazine called 'Trade It' you can then calibrate them to suit
your needs and by doing so build in a percentage to account for wear and
tear. Installation is within the bounds of competent DIY.
Steve
Bath
UK
In message , Seeds Art Gallery writes
> Does one contact the local electric company to install this meter or doe=
>s
>one just call an electrician? I'd like to have a meter to know how much
>electricity my studio uses -- it'd be good to have that split off from my
>house but there's only one meter for both.
>
>Thanks,
>Valerie von Bergen
>Denton, TX
>
>> The best way to know the cost of firing is to have a meter installed in
>> the supply to the kiln. This is not expensive. >
--
Steve Mills
Bath
UK
Lorri on sat 28 jul 01
A kilowatt is a thousand watts. Think of it in reference to a 50-watt
lightbulb. That lightbulb uses 50 watts in an hour. It would take 200
hours of using that bulb then to equal one kilowatt hour usage of power. (A
megawatt is a thousand kilowatts. This is how electricity prices are
typically stated on the market.) I think a couple of folks have mentioned
that it takes between $8 and $9 to fire their kiln. I figured it up one
time on my kiln and came up with that same price range based on my monthly
$/kwh on my bill.
Hope that helps.
Lorri
Lenexa, KS
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