moldy clay

updated tue 2 nov 04

will edwards on tue 17 jul 01

Hi,

I read the fears of molds perhaps having the potential to cause harm but =
I
need to reinterate that the statement isn't to cause any such alarm. They=
are
thousands of molds growing everywhere and at anytime. Which ones are pois=
on
would have to be decided under a microscope. Actually some can help us, s=
uch
as speeding up the process of adding additional plasticity to clay. (Kim =
Chee
comes to mind/Spelling?)
e.coli is a bacteria. Mold(s), unlike plants, do not get their color or f=
ood
from sun-light. They break down materials through enzymes and digest them=
=2E
Look at lemons that grow green fuzz and bread that grows brown looking st=
uff.
Two different molds! I just needed to know which food stuff would be best=
to
make it work quicker for me?
I intended on finding someone who might have some information as to which=

method would be best to speed the process up for my purpose. Simple sugar=
s,
yeast, alcohol, burlap bag etc. (?) =

Lets seperate the gram positive clostridium perfringens from e.coli and
salmonella, shingella,Campylobactor and hep A before someone assumes the
worse. Currently I have no fears of contracting an illness from the clays=

since the spores are moist and not likely to survive long upon drying. (I=

don't know of anyone getting sick from clay mold anyways) And I certainly=
will
wash my hands. If I am lucky enough the spores will find their way to my =
next
batch of clay and go to work prior to me feeding them. Keep in mind we us=
e
certain microorganisms in foods such as cheese, yogurt, kraut, beer on an=
d
on... =

If anyone out there has found a speedy way to grow mold on my clay batch =
I am
willing to give it a try. I like the black mold myself! And I ain't gonna=
have
the lab to see what it is. I'm already in the hole with those folks as is=
=2E
What about the juice off a friendship cake starter? Mmmm - Thats a though=
t
too!

William Edwards

Edouard Bastarache on tue 17 jul 01

Allo Will,

I just did a search in MEDLINE,
MEDLINE is the National Library of Medicine's database of references
to more than 11 million articles published in 4300 biomedical journals.
I have not found any ill-health effect pertaining to molds or
micro-organisms
in pottery and clay.
Same goes for OSHLINE-NIOSHTIC.


Later,


Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/


----- Original Message -----
From: will edwards
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:06 AM
Subject: Moldy Clay


Hi,

I read the fears of molds perhaps having the potential to cause harm but I
need to reinterate that the statement isn't to cause any such alarm. They
are
thousands of molds growing everywhere and at anytime. Which ones are poison
would have to be decided under a microscope. Actually some can help us, such
as speeding up the process of adding additional plasticity to clay. (Kim
Chee
comes to mind/Spelling?)
e.coli is a bacteria. Mold(s), unlike plants, do not get their color or food
from sun-light. They break down materials through enzymes and digest them.
Look at lemons that grow green fuzz and bread that grows brown looking
stuff.
Two different molds! I just needed to know which food stuff would be best to
make it work quicker for me?
I intended on finding someone who might have some information as to which
method would be best to speed the process up for my purpose. Simple sugars,
yeast, alcohol, burlap bag etc. (?)
Lets seperate the gram positive clostridium perfringens from e.coli and
salmonella, shingella,Campylobactor and hep A before someone assumes the
worse. Currently I have no fears of contracting an illness from the clays
since the spores are moist and not likely to survive long upon drying. (I
don't know of anyone getting sick from clay mold anyways) And I certainly
will
wash my hands. If I am lucky enough the spores will find their way to my
next
batch of clay and go to work prior to me feeding them. Keep in mind we use
certain microorganisms in foods such as cheese, yogurt, kraut, beer on and
on...
If anyone out there has found a speedy way to grow mold on my clay batch I
am
willing to give it a try. I like the black mold myself! And I ain't gonna
have
the lab to see what it is. I'm already in the hole with those folks as is.
What about the juice off a friendship cake starter? Mmmm - Thats a thought
too!

William Edwards

____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org

You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/

Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.

Robert and Mary Ann Sparacin on tue 17 jul 01

Dear Edouard Bastarache,

Glad to hear it, but what is a false negative? Besides, medical reports are
often skewed, but many do make good manure compost. Recent news programs have
indicated that mold growing within building walls have cause health problems. Is
this true? Consider this very useful bit of advice, whenever you have occasion to
open an ancient Egyptian tomb (advice form an archeologist), which is of course a
common occurrence, you would be wise not to shave before hand....some of those who
did shave before opening the King Tut crypt, died form a very nasty blood
poisoning... due to the reddish mold in the tomb? Mold toxins are also suspect in
causing other diseases, as cancer. Molds growing in corn products, and in your corn
flakes, are not all that good for you. However, we live with mold all around us,
but perhaps a little bit of caution would be advised before one takes deep breaths
over the mold pile. Mold toxins may take a long time to do their work. Cooking
products use very specific mold spores... not just any, although one could survive
lumpy refrigerator milk. The argument that we use mold for edible products, and
that we are surrounded by mold does not mean that athlete's foot, or trench foot (
which really hurts) is good for you. Just as types of molds are bred for types of
cheese, or yogurt, it might be more meaningful to inquire as to which types of
molds are best to encourage in the clay. From what I have been led to understand,
which, granted, is little, once a mold is established in an area, it may tend to
dominate that area.

Just a thought,

RJS

Edouard Bastarache wrote:

> Allo Will,
>
> I just did a search in MEDLINE,
> MEDLINE is the National Library of Medicine's database of references
> to more than 11 million articles published in 4300 biomedical journals.
> I have not found any ill-health effect pertaining to molds or
> micro-organisms
> in pottery and clay.
> Same goes for OSHLINE-NIOSHTIC.
>
> Later,
>
> Edouard Bastarache
> Irreductible Quebecois
> Sorel-Tracy
> Quebec
> edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: will edwards
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:06 AM
> Subject: Moldy Clay
>
> Hi,
>
> I read the fears of molds perhaps having the potential to cause harm but I
> need to reinterate that the statement isn't to cause any such alarm. They
> are
> thousands of molds growing everywhere and at anytime. Which ones are poison
> would have to be decided under a microscope. Actually some can help us, such
> as speeding up the process of adding additional plasticity to clay. (Kim
> Chee
> comes to mind/Spelling?)
> e.coli is a bacteria. Mold(s), unlike plants, do not get their color or food
> from sun-light. They break down materials through enzymes and digest them.
> Look at lemons that grow green fuzz and bread that grows brown looking
> stuff.
> Two different molds! I just needed to know which food stuff would be best to
> make it work quicker for me?
> I intended on finding someone who might have some information as to which
> method would be best to speed the process up for my purpose. Simple sugars,
> yeast, alcohol, burlap bag etc. (?)
> Lets seperate the gram positive clostridium perfringens from e.coli and
> salmonella, shingella,Campylobactor and hep A before someone assumes the
> worse. Currently I have no fears of contracting an illness from the clays
> since the spores are moist and not likely to survive long upon drying. (I
> don't know of anyone getting sick from clay mold anyways) And I certainly
> will
> wash my hands. If I am lucky enough the spores will find their way to my
> next
> batch of clay and go to work prior to me feeding them. Keep in mind we use
> certain microorganisms in foods such as cheese, yogurt, kraut, beer on and
> on...
> If anyone out there has found a speedy way to grow mold on my clay batch I
> am
> willing to give it a try. I like the black mold myself! And I ain't gonna
> have
> the lab to see what it is. I'm already in the hole with those folks as is.
> What about the juice off a friendship cake starter? Mmmm - Thats a thought
> too!
>
> William Edwards
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

jay s. gertz on tue 17 jul 01

Hi folks!

Good day from the Southern Appalachians!

I had to put my two cents worth in here regarding mold, leaching
chemicals, etc. I have heard that those with mold allergies (I for one
am) can have reactions to the mold in clay, but it is impossible for us
to avoid ALL allergens. I have to pick and choose! [;-)]. Mold as an
allergen is all around us...shower curtains, carpet underlayment, forest
duff, dead leaves, basement walls. The greatest detriment to us as
potters comes from inhaling clay dust or glaze chemicals. (BTW: I have
made excellent fresh clay by adding a large bottle of that Honey Beer to
a batch of 100-150 lbs. of clay while mixing. This beer really speeds up
the good mold production and makes the clay smell mighty good too!)

Okay, now I'll get on the soap box...even though I am very liberal (okay
a pinko), our overconcern with our personal physical environment takes
some very strange detours. I believe we should be very careful about
creating dinnerware that does not leach toxic metals into our consuming
public's meals. It is impossible,though, to be 100% clean, clear and
correct. Here in Asheville we have quite a large countercultural
element that claims to be vegan or vegetarian and often embraces a
holier than thou attitude about the sanctity of the body. Yet, some of
these same people I see smoking cigarettes or reefer and liberally
downing brewskies. Or another element that espouses exercise for health
and you see them running downtown alongside traffic. (Studies show they
will absorb 10 times the amount of exhaust as a driver in one of the
cars.)

Are y'all catchin' my drift here? Let's be careful, but let's not get
too pompous about it.

jay
))))))
" > "
--

Edouard Bastarache on tue 17 jul 01

Hello RJS,

I did not discuss the whole spectrum of molds toxicology,
I just said that in two VERY reliable databases, one concerning
the whole of Medicine and the other the whole of Occupational
Health and Safety, not a single report had been published in
whatever language dealing with hazards pertaining to the presence
of micro-organisms in clay used in studios, schools and pottery
factories.
I you possess any information pertaining to this problem, I am sure
the managers of these databases would be glad to post it.


Later,


Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert and Mary Ann Sparacin
To:
Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: Moldy Clay


> Dear Edouard Bastarache,
>
> Glad to hear it, but what is a false negative? Besides, medical
reports are
> often skewed, but many do make good manure compost. Recent news programs
have
> indicated that mold growing within building walls have cause health
problems. Is
> this true? Consider this very useful bit of advice, whenever you have
occasion to
> open an ancient Egyptian tomb (advice form an archeologist), which is of
course a
> common occurrence, you would be wise not to shave before hand....some of
those who
> did shave before opening the King Tut crypt, died form a very nasty blood
> poisoning... due to the reddish mold in the tomb? Mold toxins are also
suspect in
> causing other diseases, as cancer. Molds growing in corn products, and in
your corn
> flakes, are not all that good for you. However, we live with mold all
around us,
> but perhaps a little bit of caution would be advised before one takes deep
breaths
> over the mold pile. Mold toxins may take a long time to do their work.
Cooking
> products use very specific mold spores... not just any, although one could
survive
> lumpy refrigerator milk. The argument that we use mold for edible
products, and
> that we are surrounded by mold does not mean that athlete's foot, or
trench foot (
> which really hurts) is good for you. Just as types of molds are bred for
types of
> cheese, or yogurt, it might be more meaningful to inquire as to which
types of
> molds are best to encourage in the clay. From what I have been led to
understand,
> which, granted, is little, once a mold is established in an area, it may
tend to
> dominate that area.
>
> Just a thought,
>
> RJS
>
> Edouard Bastarache wrote:
>
> > Allo Will,
> >
> > I just did a search in MEDLINE,
> > MEDLINE is the National Library of Medicine's database of references
> > to more than 11 million articles published in 4300 biomedical journals.
> > I have not found any ill-health effect pertaining to molds or
> > micro-organisms
> > in pottery and clay.
> > Same goes for OSHLINE-NIOSHTIC.
> >
> > Later,
> >
> > Edouard Bastarache
> > Irreductible Quebecois
> > Sorel-Tracy
> > Quebec
> > edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> > http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> > http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: will edwards
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:06 AM
> > Subject: Moldy Clay
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I read the fears of molds perhaps having the potential to cause harm but
I
> > need to reinterate that the statement isn't to cause any such alarm.
They
> > are
> > thousands of molds growing everywhere and at anytime. Which ones are
poison
> > would have to be decided under a microscope. Actually some can help us,
such
> > as speeding up the process of adding additional plasticity to clay. (Kim
> > Chee
> > comes to mind/Spelling?)
> > e.coli is a bacteria. Mold(s), unlike plants, do not get their color or
food
> > from sun-light. They break down materials through enzymes and digest
them.
> > Look at lemons that grow green fuzz and bread that grows brown looking
> > stuff.
> > Two different molds! I just needed to know which food stuff would be
best to
> > make it work quicker for me?
> > I intended on finding someone who might have some information as to
which
> > method would be best to speed the process up for my purpose. Simple
sugars,
> > yeast, alcohol, burlap bag etc. (?)
> > Lets seperate the gram positive clostridium perfringens from e.coli and
> > salmonella, shingella,Campylobactor and hep A before someone assumes the
> > worse. Currently I have no fears of contracting an illness from the
clays
> > since the spores are moist and not likely to survive long upon drying.
(I
> > don't know of anyone getting sick from clay mold anyways) And I
certainly
> > will
> > wash my hands. If I am lucky enough the spores will find their way to my
> > next
> > batch of clay and go to work prior to me feeding them. Keep in mind we
use
> > certain microorganisms in foods such as cheese, yogurt, kraut, beer on
and
> > on...
> > If anyone out there has found a speedy way to grow mold on my clay batch
I
> > am
> > willing to give it a try. I like the black mold myself! And I ain't
gonna
> > have
> > the lab to see what it is. I'm already in the hole with those folks as
is.
> > What about the juice off a friendship cake starter? Mmmm - Thats a
thought
> > too!
> >
> > William Edwards
> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.

m markey on wed 18 jul 01

Hi Everyone!

Moldy clay can be controlled, by mixing a little bleach into the bag, or
kneading a little (capful or less) bleach into the clay (wear gloves if your
skin is sensitive). I don't think bleach will help already-discolored clay.
I doubt that bleach will affect other forming/firing properties of the clay.

Best wishes!

Mohabee NakedClay@hotmail.com

Marvelling at the new email gizmos Mr. Gates and company now provide Hotmail
customers. Unfortunately, the "send" button is smaller than the ad at the
top of the page!



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Robert and Mary Ann Sparacin on wed 18 jul 01

In reply:

Ok, I did not want to get into this, so I will make this brief. I am obviously
no expert, and no disrespect to members intended, but:
Can molds be hazardous? Answer : Yes
Don't believe me? Find out for yourself. Check the web.
Very simple descriptions, often set forth by hungry lawyers and sales people, whom
a crazed and irate, or worse, insurance claim seeking "student/parent" might
consult, are easily found. For instance, check out :
http://www.indoorpurifiers.com

http://wwwterrybryant.com/mold/mold.html

So you will say most molds are benign, except for those people with allergies and
recurring colds...ok, so you can now only be sued by those people if you run a
teaching studio, or expose some kids to it. If the wife and kids always have three
time the number of colds that other people have,well, that is another concern.
Next to the" have you been exposed to asbestos?" ads, lawyers are not far from
asking if any one has exposed YOUR kid to toxic or irritating molds. But forget
that, lets move on to the big time. Ok, so what about paper clay? Now, beyond
yourself, if you have a teaching studio, or people visit, you are really asking
for trouble. It is in wet cellulose that Stachybotrys occurs. Stachybotrys can kill
you, your student, your pregnant student's baby, not to mention your bank account
with ensuing law suits. I use paper clay, so some awareness is required to prevent
it from becoming nice and black and slimy and smelly (stachybotrys). I have read
accounts of how stinky the box of paper clay became in the hallway of a
university...they should know better..they did not mention any awareness of the
toxic hazard it posed..Stachybortys, and less toxic though irritating mold, may
well leave you personally libel if you encourage it. True, most moldy clay will
probably not hurt you unless some kid gets sick and blames it on your mold pile.
Also, if you use flour or corn starch as a parting agent for press molds, its the
same scenario: cellulose + moisture= Stachybotryus in the moist scraps. It is not a
question of no complaints in the past, it is a question of people getting
"informed" about it. It does not even have to be "true", it only has to appear
profitable to the people making the complaint. So you say, " Mold exist
everywhere" and the lawyer says you spiked your clay especially to grow mold and
exposed my client to it...AND YOU DID NOT WARN HIM/ HER (warnings don't matter if
its a minor..YOU should know better). Sounds insane, but then after listening to
our Supreme Court Judges last November, I believe the courts are a bit insane...at
times (and infamous for reversals.. you will get justice, but only 50 years later,
if you can wait that long)
I am not saying that we should panic because there is mold around us. I am
saying that ceramic workshops, and especially schools ( fat cows insurance wise)
should show some awareness. Some people are allergic to mold, and you are asking
for a complaint, at least, if you ask these susceptible people to handle your moldy
clay. Please do not tell me that most "respected " medical evidence suggest that
there are no illnesses related to mold in clay. . That is a "spin" which is
misleading and plain wrong. Beyond irritating molds, affecting only a few,
including possibly some elderly whose liver and immune functions are reduced, some
clay procedures do mix wet clay with cellulose products, and do have the
possibility to produce a deadly disease. So, beyond flour, cornstarch, and paper
clay, when someone on this list celebrates their slimy tortilla on top ot the clay
pile.... we may be well talking Stachybortrys= wet clay + cellulose. I do not think
that I am asking people to panic, but to show some reasonable caution... throw the
old tortilla in the garbage, not on the clay pile! I suspect the people on this
list have enough sense to make up their own minds. If these statements cause some
concern... they damn well should, but not panic. Nor am I going to supply all sort
of documentation, there is enough easily accessible, and it is better that one
finds out for oneself. Nor do we have all the answers, nor are all "reports" 100%
truthful. Reminds me of asking the government if agents orange, white, etc. are
harmful? Answer: Of course Not! They only hurt our enemies... or the fellow who
said "Sinking?!!! The brochure said the Titanic is unsinkable! I won't believe you
until I have a full itemized report!"...blub, blub, blub.. Finally, I do have one
question: will Stachybotrys grow in sugar?...is sugar a cellulose product? I think
that is a valid question. No panic intended.


Words from a professional idiot,

RJS

Edouard Bastarache wrote:

> Hello RJS,
>
> I did not discuss the whole spectrum of molds toxicology,
> I just said that in two VERY reliable databases, one concerning
> the whole of Medicine and the other the whole of Occupational
> Health and Safety, not a single report had been published in
> whatever language dealing with hazards pertaining to the presence
> of micro-organisms in clay used in studios, schools and pottery
> factories.
> I you possess any information pertaining to this problem, I am sure
> the managers of these databases would be glad to post it.
>
> Later,
>
> Edouard Bastarache
> Irreductible Quebecois
> Sorel-Tracy
> Quebec
> edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert and Mary Ann Sparacin
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 12:52 PM
> Subject: Re: Moldy Clay
>
> > Dear Edouard Bastarache,
> >
> > Glad to hear it, but what is a false negative? Besides, medical
> reports are
> > often skewed, but many do make good manure compost. Recent news programs
> have
> > indicated that mold growing within building walls have cause health
> problems. Is
> > this true? Consider this very useful bit of advice, whenever you have
> occasion to
> > open an ancient Egyptian tomb (advice form an archeologist), which is of
> course a
> > common occurrence, you would be wise not to shave before hand....some of
> those who
> > did shave before opening the King Tut crypt, died form a very nasty blood
> > poisoning... due to the reddish mold in the tomb? Mold toxins are also
> suspect in
> > causing other diseases, as cancer. Molds growing in corn products, and in
> your corn
> > flakes, are not all that good for you. However, we live with mold all
> around us,
> > but perhaps a little bit of caution would be advised before one takes deep
> breaths
> > over the mold pile. Mold toxins may take a long time to do their work.
> Cooking
> > products use very specific mold spores... not just any, although one could
> survive
> > lumpy refrigerator milk. The argument that we use mold for edible
> products, and
> > that we are surrounded by mold does not mean that athlete's foot, or
> trench foot (
> > which really hurts) is good for you. Just as types of molds are bred for
> types of
> > cheese, or yogurt, it might be more meaningful to inquire as to which
> types of
> > molds are best to encourage in the clay. From what I have been led to
> understand,
> > which, granted, is little, once a mold is established in an area, it may
> tend to
> > dominate that area.
> >
> > Just a thought,
> >
> > RJS
> >
> > Edouard Bastarache wrote:
> >
> > > Allo Will,
> > >
> > > I just did a search in MEDLINE,
> > > MEDLINE is the National Library of Medicine's database of references
> > > to more than 11 million articles published in 4300 biomedical journals.
> > > I have not found any ill-health effect pertaining to molds or
> > > micro-organisms
> > > in pottery and clay.
> > > Same goes for OSHLINE-NIOSHTIC.
> > >
> > > Later,
> > >
> > > Edouard Bastarache
> > > Irreductible Quebecois
> > > Sorel-Tracy
> > > Quebec
> > > edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> > > http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> > > http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: will edwards
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:06 AM
> > > Subject: Moldy Clay
> > >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > I read the fears of molds perhaps having the potential to cause harm but
> I
> > > need to reinterate that the statement isn't to cause any such alarm.
> They
> > > are
> > > thousands of molds growing everywhere and at anytime. Which ones are
> poison
> > > would have to be decided under a microscope. Actually some can help us,
> such
> > > as speeding up the process of adding additional plasticity to clay. (Kim
> > > Chee
> > > comes to mind/Spelling?)
> > > e.coli is a bacteria. Mold(s), unlike plants, do not get their color or
> food
> > > from sun-light. They break down materials through enzymes and digest
> them.
> > > Look at lemons that grow green fuzz and bread that grows brown looking
> > > stuff.
> > > Two different molds! I just needed to know which food stuff would be
> best to
> > > make it work quicker for me?
> > > I intended on finding someone who might have some information as to
> which
> > > method would be best to speed the process up for my purpose. Simple
> sugars,
> > > yeast, alcohol, burlap bag etc. (?)
> > > Lets seperate the gram positive clostridium perfringens from e.coli and
> > > salmonella, shingella,Campylobactor and hep A before someone assumes the
> > > worse. Currently I have no fears of contracting an illness from the
> clays
> > > since the spores are moist and not likely to survive long upon drying.
> (I
> > > don't know of anyone getting sick from clay mold anyways) And I
> certainly
> > > will
> > > wash my hands. If I am lucky enough the spores will find their way to my
> > > next
> > > batch of clay and go to work prior to me feeding them. Keep in mind we
> use
> > > certain microorganisms in foods such as cheese, yogurt, kraut, beer on
> and
> > > on...
> > > If anyone out there has found a speedy way to grow mold on my clay batch
> I
> > > am
> > > willing to give it a try. I like the black mold myself! And I ain't
> gonna
> > > have
> > > the lab to see what it is. I'm already in the hole with those folks as
> is.
> > > What about the juice off a friendship cake starter? Mmmm - Thats a
> thought
> > > too!
> > >
> > > William Edwards
> > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > > melpots@pclink.com.
> > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

Edouard Bastarache on wed 18 jul 01

Brief indeed,

I will be even more,
read my last post again!!!


Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/

----- Original Message -----
From: Robert and Mary Ann Sparacin
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 12:43 AM
Subject: Re: Moldy Clay


> In reply:
>
> Ok, I did not want to get into this, so I will make this brief. I am
obviously
> no expert, and no disrespect to members intended, but:
> Can molds be hazardous? Answer : Yes
> Don't believe me? Find out for yourself. Check the web.
> Very simple descriptions, often set forth by hungry lawyers and sales
people, whom
> a crazed and irate, or worse, insurance claim seeking "student/parent"
might
> consult, are easily found. For instance, check out :
> http://www.indoorpurifiers.com
>
> http://wwwterrybryant.com/mold/mold.html
>
> So you will say most molds are benign, except for those people with
allergies and
> recurring colds...ok, so you can now only be sued by those people if you
run a
> teaching studio, or expose some kids to it. If the wife and kids always
have three
> time the number of colds that other people have,well, that is another
concern.
> Next to the" have you been exposed to asbestos?" ads, lawyers are not far
from
> asking if any one has exposed YOUR kid to toxic or irritating molds. But
forget
> that, lets move on to the big time. Ok, so what about paper clay? Now,
beyond
> yourself, if you have a teaching studio, or people visit, you are really
asking
> for trouble. It is in wet cellulose that Stachybotrys occurs. Stachybotrys
can kill
> you, your student, your pregnant student's baby, not to mention your bank
account
> with ensuing law suits. I use paper clay, so some awareness is required to
prevent
> it from becoming nice and black and slimy and smelly (stachybotrys). I
have read
> accounts of how stinky the box of paper clay became in the hallway of a
> university...they should know better..they did not mention any awareness
of the
> toxic hazard it posed..Stachybortys, and less toxic though irritating
mold, may
> well leave you personally libel if you encourage it. True, most moldy clay
will
> probably not hurt you unless some kid gets sick and blames it on your mold
pile.
> Also, if you use flour or corn starch as a parting agent for press molds,
its the
> same scenario: cellulose + moisture= Stachybotryus in the moist scraps. It
is not a
> question of no complaints in the past, it is a question of people getting
> "informed" about it. It does not even have to be "true", it only has to
appear
> profitable to the people making the complaint. So you say, " Mold exist
> everywhere" and the lawyer says you spiked your clay especially to grow
mold and
> exposed my client to it...AND YOU DID NOT WARN HIM/ HER (warnings don't
matter if
> its a minor..YOU should know better). Sounds insane, but then after
listening to
> our Supreme Court Judges last November, I believe the courts are a bit
insane...at
> times (and infamous for reversals.. you will get justice, but only 50
years later,
> if you can wait that long)
> I am not saying that we should panic because there is mold around us. I
am
> saying that ceramic workshops, and especially schools ( fat cows insurance
wise)
> should show some awareness. Some people are allergic to mold, and you are
asking
> for a complaint, at least, if you ask these susceptible people to handle
your moldy
> clay. Please do not tell me that most "respected " medical evidence
suggest that
> there are no illnesses related to mold in clay. . That is a "spin" which
is
> misleading and plain wrong. Beyond irritating molds, affecting only a
few,
> including possibly some elderly whose liver and immune functions are
reduced, some
> clay procedures do mix wet clay with cellulose products, and do have the
> possibility to produce a deadly disease. So, beyond flour, cornstarch, and
paper
> clay, when someone on this list celebrates their slimy tortilla on top ot
the clay
> pile.... we may be well talking Stachybortrys= wet clay + cellulose. I do
not think
> that I am asking people to panic, but to show some reasonable caution...
throw the
> old tortilla in the garbage, not on the clay pile! I suspect the people on
this
> list have enough sense to make up their own minds. If these statements
cause some
> concern... they damn well should, but not panic. Nor am I going to supply
all sort
> of documentation, there is enough easily accessible, and it is better that
one
> finds out for oneself. Nor do we have all the answers, nor are all
"reports" 100%
> truthful. Reminds me of asking the government if agents orange, white,
etc. are
> harmful? Answer: Of course Not! They only hurt our enemies... or the
fellow who
> said "Sinking?!!! The brochure said the Titanic is unsinkable! I won't
believe you
> until I have a full itemized report!"...blub, blub, blub.. Finally, I do
have one
> question: will Stachybotrys grow in sugar?...is sugar a cellulose product?
I think
> that is a valid question. No panic intended.
>
>
> Words from a professional idiot,
>
> RJS
>
> Edouard Bastarache wrote:
>
> > Hello RJS,
> >
> > I did not discuss the whole spectrum of molds toxicology,
> > I just said that in two VERY reliable databases, one concerning
> > the whole of Medicine and the other the whole of Occupational
> > Health and Safety, not a single report had been published in
> > whatever language dealing with hazards pertaining to the presence
> > of micro-organisms in clay used in studios, schools and pottery
> > factories.
> > I you possess any information pertaining to this problem, I am sure
> > the managers of these databases would be glad to post it.
> >
> > Later,
> >
> > Edouard Bastarache
> > Irreductible Quebecois
> > Sorel-Tracy
> > Quebec
> > edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> > http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> > http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Robert and Mary Ann Sparacin
> > To:
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 12:52 PM
> > Subject: Re: Moldy Clay
> >
> > > Dear Edouard Bastarache,
> > >
> > > Glad to hear it, but what is a false negative? Besides, medical
> > reports are
> > > often skewed, but many do make good manure compost. Recent news
programs
> > have
> > > indicated that mold growing within building walls have cause health
> > problems. Is
> > > this true? Consider this very useful bit of advice, whenever you have
> > occasion to
> > > open an ancient Egyptian tomb (advice form an archeologist), which is
of
> > course a
> > > common occurrence, you would be wise not to shave before hand....some
of
> > those who
> > > did shave before opening the King Tut crypt, died form a very nasty
blood
> > > poisoning... due to the reddish mold in the tomb? Mold toxins are also
> > suspect in
> > > causing other diseases, as cancer. Molds growing in corn products, and
in
> > your corn
> > > flakes, are not all that good for you. However, we live with mold all
> > around us,
> > > but perhaps a little bit of caution would be advised before one takes
deep
> > breaths
> > > over the mold pile. Mold toxins may take a long time to do their work.
> > Cooking
> > > products use very specific mold spores... not just any, although one
could
> > survive
> > > lumpy refrigerator milk. The argument that we use mold for edible
> > products, and
> > > that we are surrounded by mold does not mean that athlete's foot, or
> > trench foot (
> > > which really hurts) is good for you. Just as types of molds are bred
for
> > types of
> > > cheese, or yogurt, it might be more meaningful to inquire as to which
> > types of
> > > molds are best to encourage in the clay. From what I have been led to
> > understand,
> > > which, granted, is little, once a mold is established in an area, it
may
> > tend to
> > > dominate that area.
> > >
> > > Just a thought,
> > >
> > > RJS
> > >
> > > Edouard Bastarache wrote:
> > >
> > > > Allo Will,
> > > >
> > > > I just did a search in MEDLINE,
> > > > MEDLINE is the National Library of Medicine's database of references
> > > > to more than 11 million articles published in 4300 biomedical
journals.
> > > > I have not found any ill-health effect pertaining to molds or
> > > > micro-organisms
> > > > in pottery and clay.
> > > > Same goes for OSHLINE-NIOSHTIC.
> > > >
> > > > Later,
> > > >
> > > > Edouard Bastarache
> > > > Irreductible Quebecois
> > > > Sorel-Tracy
> > > > Quebec
> > > > edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> > > > http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> > > > http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: will edwards
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:06 AM
> > > > Subject: Moldy Clay
> > > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > I read the fears of molds perhaps having the potential to cause harm
but
> > I
> > > > need to reinterate that the statement isn't to cause any such alarm.
> > They
> > > > are
> > > > thousands of molds growing everywhere and at anytime. Which ones are
> > poison
> > > > would have to be decided under a microscope. Actually some can help
us,
> > such
> > > > as speeding up the process of adding additional plasticity to clay.
(Kim
> > > > Chee
> > > > comes to mind/Spelling?)
> > > > e.coli is a bacteria. Mold(s), unlike plants, do not get their color
or
> > food
> > > > from sun-light. They break down materials through enzymes and digest
> > them.
> > > > Look at lemons that grow green fuzz and bread that grows brown
looking
> > > > stuff.
> > > > Two different molds! I just needed to know which food stuff would be
> > best to
> > > > make it work quicker for me?
> > > > I intended on finding someone who might have some information as to
> > which
> > > > method would be best to speed the process up for my purpose. Simple
> > sugars,
> > > > yeast, alcohol, burlap bag etc. (?)
> > > > Lets seperate the gram positive clostridium perfringens from e.coli
and
> > > > salmonella, shingella,Campylobactor and hep A before someone assumes
the
> > > > worse. Currently I have no fears of contracting an illness from the
> > clays
> > > > since the spores are moist and not likely to survive long upon
drying.
> > (I
> > > > don't know of anyone getting sick from clay mold anyways) And I
> > certainly
> > > > will
> > > > wash my hands. If I am lucky enough the spores will find their way
to my
> > > > next
> > > > batch of clay and go to work prior to me feeding them. Keep in mind
we
> > use
> > > > certain microorganisms in foods such as cheese, yogurt, kraut, beer
on
> > and
> > > > on...
> > > > If anyone out there has found a speedy way to grow mold on my clay
batch
> > I
> > > > am
> > > > willing to give it a try. I like the black mold myself! And I ain't
> > gonna
> > > > have
> > > > the lab to see what it is. I'm already in the hole with those folks
as
> > is.
> > > > What about the juice off a friendship cake starter? Mmmm - Thats a
> > thought
> > > > too!
> > > >
> > > > William Edwards
> > > >
> > > >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
> > > > __
> > > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > > >
> > > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> > > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > > >
> > > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > > > melpots@pclink.com.
> > > >
> > > >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > > >
> > > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
subscription
> > > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > > >
> > > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> > >
> > >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
> > __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.

Anne Pfeiffer on wed 18 jul 01

Could someone please tell me, briefly, please:
1. Is all clay mold visible?

2. As a high school ceramics teacher, I have to recycle clay by hand, after letting dried clay sit in buckets to absorb water. Does this cause a health problem?

Regarding whether mold allergies are to be taken seriously or not, I have found working in a public school that that question is not mine to answer, especially since I work with many underpriveledged kids who suffer from asthma. And I am not arrogant enough to think I know more than doctors.

I did discover the debilitating effects of mold about 13 years ago when I worked as a writer/researcher in archives where the classic mold of mold allergy thrives on old paper. After several months of working in that room I developed severe asmtha-like conditions. (And, yes, I am one of those stoic new-england types that would never admit to ever being sick, but not being able to take in air and wheezing like a 99-year-old is hard to ignore.) After throwing money at doctors, getting out of the archives, throwing out all our old down pillows and comfortors and having to swear off going up into the attics of old homes, I have never had another episode-except one brief one when I absentmindedly went up into an attic of an old house. So, I don't know if that is a different type of mold then that which grows on mold, but it is very real. NIH provided me with the most thorough information so that I knew what to avoid.

Good health to all,
Anne

Edouard Bastarache on wed 18 jul 01

Hello Helen Pfeiffer,

Could someone please tell me, briefly, please:
1. Is all clay mold visible?

"There can be 25 billions micro-organisms in 1 gram of clay,
among which molds; make your pick.
They must be present before they proliferate enough so you
can see modifications of the surface of clays"

2. As a high school ceramics teacher, I have to recycle clay by hand, after
letting dried clay sit in buckets to absorb water. Does this cause a health
problem?

"I did a search in two VERY reliable databases, one concerning
the whole of Medicine (MEDLINE) and the other the whole of
Occupational Health and Safety(OSHLINE/NIOSHTIC), not a
single report has been published in whatever language dealing with
hazards pertaining to the presenceof micro-organisms in clay used
in studios, schools and pottery factories."



Later,



Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/

Robert and Mary Ann Sparacin on wed 18 jul 01

Dear Edouard,

I did... the Point is that just because one does not come across a specific
reference to mold toxicity and clay, does not mean that Stachybotrys present in
paper clay, or clay with flour in it, even rye flour,or possibly sugar in it, or
allergies from other molds, do not exist, or can not exist. No one has made a case
as to why stachybotrys will not grow in cellulose additives made to moist clay. In
addition, the question still remains, will hazardous molds grow in a sugar
solution? Do manufactures add sugar to their clay? When artists start adding growth
mediums to clay, we are no longer talking about "natural clay", which in itself
makes reports about natural clay toxicity, meaningless. On the other hand, the
presence of some naturally found molds in unadulterated clays may not have been
researched far enough at present to completely rule out their long term effect. A
lack of indications may only mean that a link has not been found, not that none
exist. That is why I suggest some degree of caution and awareness, especially when
people start talking about adding growth mediums to their clay, but do not know
what they are growing. I am not afraid of my "normal" clay which sometimes has mold
on it, but I try not to inhale the moist air form its container, on general
principle. Most people do not have immediate reactions to normal clay, so even if
there is some degree of toxicity, if it takes 110 years of exposure, it matters
little because I won't live that long anyway. However, when my paper clay has slimy
black streaks in it, when it is in the stage of forming spores, I am under the
impression that it is dangerous. Part of the answer to this debate may be that
clay may be dangerous in terms of what has been added to it. The report which was
just posted about a dead rat in the clay, and the gray spores and fowl odor it sent
out through the room, indicates that clay can carry a variety of hosts, not
necessarily deadly, but not necessarily benign either. I would not give that clay
to anyone to use, I would show some caution and awareness.

No disrespect meant,

RJS

Edouard Bastarache wrote:

> Brief indeed,
>
> I will be even more,
> read my last post again!!!
>
> Edouard Bastarache
> Irreductible Quebecois
> Sorel-Tracy
> Quebec
> edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Robert and Mary Ann Sparacin
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 12:43 AM
> Subject: Re: Moldy Clay
>
> > In reply:
> >
> > Ok, I did not want to get into this, so I will make this brief. I am
> obviously
> > no expert, and no disrespect to members intended, but:
> > Can molds be hazardous? Answer : Yes
> > Don't believe me? Find out for yourself. Check the web.
> > Very simple descriptions, often set forth by hungry lawyers and sales
> people, whom
> > a crazed and irate, or worse, insurance claim seeking "student/parent"
> might
> > consult, are easily found. For instance, check out :
> > http://www.indoorpurifiers.com
> >
> > http://wwwterrybryant.com/mold/mold.html
> >
> > So you will say most molds are benign, except for those people with
> allergies and
> > recurring colds...ok, so you can now only be sued by those people if you
> run a
> > teaching studio, or expose some kids to it. If the wife and kids always
> have three
> > time the number of colds that other people have,well, that is another
> concern.
> > Next to the" have you been exposed to asbestos?" ads, lawyers are not far
> from
> > asking if any one has exposed YOUR kid to toxic or irritating molds. But
> forget
> > that, lets move on to the big time. Ok, so what about paper clay? Now,
> beyond
> > yourself, if you have a teaching studio, or people visit, you are really
> asking
> > for trouble. It is in wet cellulose that Stachybotrys occurs. Stachybotrys
> can kill
> > you, your student, your pregnant student's baby, not to mention your bank
> account
> > with ensuing law suits. I use paper clay, so some awareness is required to
> prevent
> > it from becoming nice and black and slimy and smelly (stachybotrys). I
> have read
> > accounts of how stinky the box of paper clay became in the hallway of a
> > university...they should know better..they did not mention any awareness
> of the
> > toxic hazard it posed..Stachybortys, and less toxic though irritating
> mold, may
> > well leave you personally libel if you encourage it. True, most moldy clay
> will
> > probably not hurt you unless some kid gets sick and blames it on your mold
> pile.
> > Also, if you use flour or corn starch as a parting agent for press molds,
> its the
> > same scenario: cellulose + moisture= Stachybotryus in the moist scraps. It
> is not a
> > question of no complaints in the past, it is a question of people getting
> > "informed" about it. It does not even have to be "true", it only has to
> appear
> > profitable to the people making the complaint. So you say, " Mold exist
> > everywhere" and the lawyer says you spiked your clay especially to grow
> mold and
> > exposed my client to it...AND YOU DID NOT WARN HIM/ HER (warnings don't
> matter if
> > its a minor..YOU should know better). Sounds insane, but then after
> listening to
> > our Supreme Court Judges last November, I believe the courts are a bit
> insane...at
> > times (and infamous for reversals.. you will get justice, but only 50
> years later,
> > if you can wait that long)
> > I am not saying that we should panic because there is mold around us. I
> am
> > saying that ceramic workshops, and especially schools ( fat cows insurance
> wise)
> > should show some awareness. Some people are allergic to mold, and you are
> asking
> > for a complaint, at least, if you ask these susceptible people to handle
> your moldy
> > clay. Please do not tell me that most "respected " medical evidence
> suggest that
> > there are no illnesses related to mold in clay. . That is a "spin" which
> is
> > misleading and plain wrong. Beyond irritating molds, affecting only a
> few,
> > including possibly some elderly whose liver and immune functions are
> reduced, some
> > clay procedures do mix wet clay with cellulose products, and do have the
> > possibility to produce a deadly disease. So, beyond flour, cornstarch, and
> paper
> > clay, when someone on this list celebrates their slimy tortilla on top ot
> the clay
> > pile.... we may be well talking Stachybortrys= wet clay + cellulose. I do
> not think
> > that I am asking people to panic, but to show some reasonable caution...
> throw the
> > old tortilla in the garbage, not on the clay pile! I suspect the people on
> this
> > list have enough sense to make up their own minds. If these statements
> cause some
> > concern... they damn well should, but not panic. Nor am I going to supply
> all sort
> > of documentation, there is enough easily accessible, and it is better that
> one
> > finds out for oneself. Nor do we have all the answers, nor are all
> "reports" 100%
> > truthful. Reminds me of asking the government if agents orange, white,
> etc. are
> > harmful? Answer: Of course Not! They only hurt our enemies... or the
> fellow who
> > said "Sinking?!!! The brochure said the Titanic is unsinkable! I won't
> believe you
> > until I have a full itemized report!"...blub, blub, blub.. Finally, I do
> have one
> > question: will Stachybotrys grow in sugar?...is sugar a cellulose product?
> I think
> > that is a valid question. No panic intended.
> >
> >
> > Words from a professional idiot,
> >
> > RJS
> >
> > Edouard Bastarache wrote:
> >
> > > Hello RJS,
> > >
> > > I did not discuss the whole spectrum of molds toxicology,
> > > I just said that in two VERY reliable databases, one concerning
> > > the whole of Medicine and the other the whole of Occupational
> > > Health and Safety, not a single report had been published in
> > > whatever language dealing with hazards pertaining to the presence
> > > of micro-organisms in clay used in studios, schools and pottery
> > > factories.
> > > I you possess any information pertaining to this problem, I am sure
> > > the managers of these databases would be glad to post it.
> > >
> > > Later,
> > >
> > > Edouard Bastarache
> > > Irreductible Quebecois
> > > Sorel-Tracy
> > > Quebec
> > > edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> > > http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> > > http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: Robert and Mary Ann Sparacin
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 12:52 PM
> > > Subject: Re: Moldy Clay
> > >
> > > > Dear Edouard Bastarache,
> > > >
> > > > Glad to hear it, but what is a false negative? Besides, medical
> > > reports are
> > > > often skewed, but many do make good manure compost. Recent news
> programs
> > > have
> > > > indicated that mold growing within building walls have cause health
> > > problems. Is
> > > > this true? Consider this very useful bit of advice, whenever you have
> > > occasion to
> > > > open an ancient Egyptian tomb (advice form an archeologist), which is
> of
> > > course a
> > > > common occurrence, you would be wise not to shave before hand....some
> of
> > > those who
> > > > did shave before opening the King Tut crypt, died form a very nasty
> blood
> > > > poisoning... due to the reddish mold in the tomb? Mold toxins are also
> > > suspect in
> > > > causing other diseases, as cancer. Molds growing in corn products, and
> in
> > > your corn
> > > > flakes, are not all that good for you. However, we live with mold all
> > > around us,
> > > > but perhaps a little bit of caution would be advised before one takes
> deep
> > > breaths
> > > > over the mold pile. Mold toxins may take a long time to do their work.
> > > Cooking
> > > > products use very specific mold spores... not just any, although one
> could
> > > survive
> > > > lumpy refrigerator milk. The argument that we use mold for edible
> > > products, and
> > > > that we are surrounded by mold does not mean that athlete's foot, or
> > > trench foot (
> > > > which really hurts) is good for you. Just as types of molds are bred
> for
> > > types of
> > > > cheese, or yogurt, it might be more meaningful to inquire as to which
> > > types of
> > > > molds are best to encourage in the clay. From what I have been led to
> > > understand,
> > > > which, granted, is little, once a mold is established in an area, it
> may
> > > tend to
> > > > dominate that area.
> > > >
> > > > Just a thought,
> > > >
> > > > RJS
> > > >
> > > > Edouard Bastarache wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Allo Will,
> > > > >
> > > > > I just did a search in MEDLINE,
> > > > > MEDLINE is the National Library of Medicine's database of references
> > > > > to more than 11 million articles published in 4300 biomedical
> journals.
> > > > > I have not found any ill-health effect pertaining to molds or
> > > > > micro-organisms
> > > > > in pottery and clay.
> > > > > Same goes for OSHLINE-NIOSHTIC.
> > > > >
> > > > > Later,
> > > > >
> > > > > Edouard Bastarache
> > > > > Irreductible Quebecois
> > > > > Sorel-Tracy
> > > > > Quebec
> > > > > edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> > > > > http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> > > > > http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/
> > > > >
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From: will edwards
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:06 AM
> > > > > Subject: Moldy Clay
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi,
> > > > >
> > > > > I read the fears of molds perhaps having the potential to cause harm
> but
> > > I
> > > > > need to reinterate that the statement isn't to cause any such alarm.
> > > They
> > > > > are
> > > > > thousands of molds growing everywhere and at anytime. Which ones are
> > > poison
> > > > > would have to be decided under a microscope. Actually some can help
> us,
> > > such
> > > > > as speeding up the process of adding additional plasticity to clay.
> (Kim
> > > > > Chee
> > > > > comes to mind/Spelling?)
> > > > > e.coli is a bacteria. Mold(s), unlike plants, do not get their color
> or
> > > food
> > > > > from sun-light. They break down materials through enzymes and digest
> > > them.
> > > > > Look at lemons that grow green fuzz and bread that grows brown
> looking
> > > > > stuff.
> > > > > Two different molds! I just needed to know which food stuff would be
> > > best to
> > > > > make it work quicker for me?
> > > > > I intended on finding someone who might have some information as to
> > > which
> > > > > method would be best to speed the process up for my purpose. Simple
> > > sugars,
> > > > > yeast, alcohol, burlap bag etc. (?)
> > > > > Lets seperate the gram positive clostridium perfringens from e.coli
> and
> > > > > salmonella, shingella,Campylobactor and hep A before someone assumes
> the
> > > > > worse. Currently I have no fears of contracting an illness from the
> > > clays
> > > > > since the spores are moist and not likely to survive long upon
> drying.
> > > (I
> > > > > don't know of anyone getting sick from clay mold anyways) And I
> > > certainly
> > > > > will
> > > > > wash my hands. If I am lucky enough the spores will find their way
> to my
> > > > > next
> > > > > batch of clay and go to work prior to me feeding them. Keep in mind
> we
> > > use
> > > > > certain microorganisms in foods such as cheese, yogurt, kraut, beer
> on
> > > and
> > > > > on...
> > > > > If anyone out there has found a speedy way to grow mold on my clay
> batch
> > > I
> > > > > am
> > > > > willing to give it a try. I like the black mold myself! And I ain't
> > > gonna
> > > > > have
> > > > > the lab to see what it is. I'm already in the hole with those folks
> as
> > > is.
> > > > > What about the juice off a friendship cake starter? Mmmm - Thats a
> > > thought
> > > > > too!
> > > > >
> > > > > William Edwards
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> > > > > __
> > > > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > > > >
> > > > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> > > > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > > > >
> > > > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > > > > melpots@pclink.com.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > > > >
> > > > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your
> subscription
> > > > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > > > >
> > > > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > > melpots@pclink.com.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> > > __
> > > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > > >
> > > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > > >
> > > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> > > melpots@pclink.com.
> > >
> > >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> > >
> > > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> > >
> > > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
> >
> >
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> __
> > Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
> >
> > You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> > settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
> >
> > Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at melpots@pclink.com.

Chris Stanley on wed 18 jul 01

Historically speaking the addition of urine into clay is known to have
happened in several cultures. The Japanese and the Chinese from legendary
stories were known to age their clay in this manner. The use of urine in
bronze patinas has also been written up by the likes of Celleni. As an
aside, In another life, I worked with an aged plumber who swore that one of
the reasons that you rarely got sick as a plumber was that you were exposed
to so much (@#$%) and other wonderful materials that your body built up an
incredible defense system to various molds and floating nastys. The same
debate applies with anti bacterial soaps which tend to kill of the good
germs at the same time they are killing the bad ones!
I am not suggesting that anyone does this! I am attempting to put the
discussion into a historical bent. Personally, I will not work my
porcelain until there are black streaks present from age. I mix the clay by
hand in small 5-gallon batches as a slip and hand wedge it on a plaster
wedging board. It works like a dream. It is a slow process, but it works
for me.

Chris

Edouard Bastarache on wed 18 jul 01

Hello RJS,

if you are still afraid of molds after the information I have
supplied so far, consider the use of "biocids" in the clays
you consider hazardous.
If you know some french, go to Smart's page on this subject,
he is well aware being a technologist in a very large earthenware
factory with an output of 125,000 pieces per MONTH.
At least have a look at the different biocids available on the french
market, they are maybe also available in your country under
different tradenames. It is probably a good starting point in order
to find what you need from your suppliers.

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/smart2000/bacteries.htm


Later,



Edouard Bastarache
Irreductible Quebecois
Sorel-Tracy
Quebec
edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/


----- Original Message -----
From: Robert and Mary Ann Sparacin
To:
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: Moldy Clay


> Dear Edouard,
>
> I did... the Point is that just because one does not come across a
specific
> reference to mold toxicity and clay, does not mean that Stachybotrys
present in
> paper clay, or clay with flour in it, even rye flour,or possibly sugar in
it, or
> allergies from other molds, do not exist, or can not exist. No one has
made a case
> as to why stachybotrys will not grow in cellulose additives made to moist
clay. In
> addition, the question still remains, will hazardous molds grow in a sugar
> solution? Do manufactures add sugar to their clay? When artists start
adding growth
> mediums to clay, we are no longer talking about "natural clay", which in
itself
> makes reports about natural clay toxicity, meaningless. On the other hand,
the
> presence of some naturally found molds in unadulterated clays may not have
been
> researched far enough at present to completely rule out their long term
effect. A
> lack of indications may only mean that a link has not been found, not that
none
> exist. That is why I suggest some degree of caution and awareness,
especially when
> people start talking about adding growth mediums to their clay, but do not
know
> what they are growing. I am not afraid of my "normal" clay which sometimes
has mold
> on it, but I try not to inhale the moist air form its container, on
general
> principle. Most people do not have immediate reactions to normal clay, so
even if
> there is some degree of toxicity, if it takes 110 years of exposure, it
matters
> little because I won't live that long anyway. However, when my paper clay
has slimy
> black streaks in it, when it is in the stage of forming spores, I am under
the
> impression that it is dangerous. Part of the answer to this debate may be
that
> clay may be dangerous in terms of what has been added to it. The report
which was
> just posted about a dead rat in the clay, and the gray spores and fowl
odor it sent
> out through the room, indicates that clay can carry a variety of hosts,
not
> necessarily deadly, but not necessarily benign either. I would not give
that clay
> to anyone to use, I would show some caution and awareness.
>
> No disrespect meant,
>
> RJS
>
> Edouard Bastarache wrote:
>
> > Brief indeed,
> >
> > I will be even more,
> > read my last post again!!!
> >
> > Edouard Bastarache
> > Irreductible Quebecois
> > Sorel-Tracy
> > Quebec
> > edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> > http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> > http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Robert and Mary Ann Sparacin
> > To:
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 12:43 AM
> > Subject: Re: Moldy Clay
> >
> > > In reply:
> > >
> > > Ok, I did not want to get into this, so I will make this brief. I
am
> > obviously
> > > no expert, and no disrespect to members intended, but:
> > > Can molds be hazardous? Answer : Yes
> > > Don't believe me? Find out for yourself. Check the web.
> > > Very simple descriptions, often set forth by hungry lawyers and sales
> > people, whom
> > > a crazed and irate, or worse, insurance claim seeking "student/parent"
> > might
> > > consult, are easily found. For instance, check out :
> > > http://www.indoorpurifiers.com
> > >
> > > http://wwwterrybryant.com/mold/mold.html
> > >
> > > So you will say most molds are benign, except for those people with
> > allergies and
> > > recurring colds...ok, so you can now only be sued by those people if
you
> > run a
> > > teaching studio, or expose some kids to it. If the wife and kids
always
> > have three
> > > time the number of colds that other people have,well, that is another
> > concern.
> > > Next to the" have you been exposed to asbestos?" ads, lawyers are not
far
> > from
> > > asking if any one has exposed YOUR kid to toxic or irritating molds.
But
> > forget
> > > that, lets move on to the big time. Ok, so what about paper clay? Now,
> > beyond
> > > yourself, if you have a teaching studio, or people visit, you are
really
> > asking
> > > for trouble. It is in wet cellulose that Stachybotrys occurs.
Stachybotrys
> > can kill
> > > you, your student, your pregnant student's baby, not to mention your
bank
> > account
> > > with ensuing law suits. I use paper clay, so some awareness is
required to
> > prevent
> > > it from becoming nice and black and slimy and smelly (stachybotrys). I
> > have read
> > > accounts of how stinky the box of paper clay became in the hallway of
a
> > > university...they should know better..they did not mention any
awareness
> > of the
> > > toxic hazard it posed..Stachybortys, and less toxic though irritating
> > mold, may
> > > well leave you personally libel if you encourage it. True, most moldy
clay
> > will
> > > probably not hurt you unless some kid gets sick and blames it on your
mold
> > pile.
> > > Also, if you use flour or corn starch as a parting agent for press
molds,
> > its the
> > > same scenario: cellulose + moisture= Stachybotryus in the moist
scraps. It
> > is not a
> > > question of no complaints in the past, it is a question of people
getting
> > > "informed" about it. It does not even have to be "true", it only has
to
> > appear
> > > profitable to the people making the complaint. So you say, " Mold
exist
> > > everywhere" and the lawyer says you spiked your clay especially to
grow
> > mold and
> > > exposed my client to it...AND YOU DID NOT WARN HIM/ HER (warnings
don't
> > matter if
> > > its a minor..YOU should know better). Sounds insane, but then after
> > listening to
> > > our Supreme Court Judges last November, I believe the courts are a bit
> > insane...at
> > > times (and infamous for reversals.. you will get justice, but only 50
> > years later,
> > > if you can wait that long)
> > > I am not saying that we should panic because there is mold around
us. I
> > am
> > > saying that ceramic workshops, and especially schools ( fat cows
insurance
> > wise)
> > > should show some awareness. Some people are allergic to mold, and you
are
> > asking
> > > for a complaint, at least, if you ask these susceptible people to
handle
> > your moldy
> > > clay. Please do not tell me that most "respected " medical evidence
> > suggest that
> > > there are no illnesses related to mold in clay. . That is a "spin"
which
> > is
> > > misleading and plain wrong. Beyond irritating molds, affecting only a
> > few,
> > > including possibly some elderly whose liver and immune functions are
> > reduced, some
> > > clay procedures do mix wet clay with cellulose products, and do have
the
> > > possibility to produce a deadly disease. So, beyond flour, cornstarch,
and
> > paper
> > > clay, when someone on this list celebrates their slimy tortilla on top
ot
> > the clay
> > > pile.... we may be well talking Stachybortrys= wet clay + cellulose. I
do
> > not think
> > > that I am asking people to panic, but to show some reasonable
caution...
> > throw the
> > > old tortilla in the garbage, not on the clay pile! I suspect the
people on
> > this
> > > list have enough sense to make up their own minds. If these statements
> > cause some
> > > concern... they damn well should, but not panic. Nor am I going to
supply
> > all sort
> > > of documentation, there is enough easily accessible, and it is better
that
> > one
> > > finds out for oneself. Nor do we have all the answers, nor are all
> > "reports" 100%
> > > truthful. Reminds me of asking the government if agents orange,
white,
> > etc. are
> > > harmful? Answer: Of course Not! They only hurt our enemies... or the
> > fellow who
> > > said "Sinking?!!! The brochure said the Titanic is unsinkable! I won't
> > believe you
> > > until I have a full itemized report!"...blub, blub, blub.. Finally, I
do
> > have one
> > > question: will Stachybotrys grow in sugar?...is sugar a cellulose
product?
> > I think
> > > that is a valid question. No panic intended.
> > >
> > >
> > > Words from a professional idiot,
> > >
> > > RJS
> > >
> > > Edouard Bastarache wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hello RJS,
> > > >
> > > > I did not discuss the whole spectrum of molds toxicology,
> > > > I just said that in two VERY reliable databases, one concerning
> > > > the whole of Medicine and the other the whole of Occupational
> > > > Health and Safety, not a single report had been published in
> > > > whatever language dealing with hazards pertaining to the presence
> > > > of micro-organisms in clay used in studios, schools and pottery
> > > > factories.
> > > > I you possess any information pertaining to this problem, I am sure
> > > > the managers of these databases would be glad to post it.
> > > >
> > > > Later,
> > > >
> > > > Edouard Bastarache
> > > > Irreductible Quebecois
> > > > Sorel-Tracy
> > > > Quebec
> > > > edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> > > > http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> > > > http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: Robert and Mary Ann Sparacin
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 12:52 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: Moldy Clay
> > > >
> > > > > Dear Edouard Bastarache,
> > > > >
> > > > > Glad to hear it, but what is a false negative? Besides,
medical
> > > > reports are
> > > > > often skewed, but many do make good manure compost. Recent news
> > programs
> > > > have
> > > > > indicated that mold growing within building walls have cause
health
> > > > problems. Is
> > > > > this true? Consider this very useful bit of advice, whenever you
have
> > > > occasion to
> > > > > open an ancient Egyptian tomb (advice form an archeologist), which
is
> > of
> > > > course a
> > > > > common occurrence, you would be wise not to shave before
hand....some
> > of
> > > > those who
> > > > > did shave before opening the King Tut crypt, died form a very
nasty
> > blood
> > > > > poisoning... due to the reddish mold in the tomb? Mold toxins are
also
> > > > suspect in
> > > > > causing other diseases, as cancer. Molds growing in corn products,
and
> > in
> > > > your corn
> > > > > flakes, are not all that good for you. However, we live with mold
all
> > > > around us,
> > > > > but perhaps a little bit of caution would be advised before one
takes
> > deep
> > > > breaths
> > > > > over the mold pile. Mold toxins may take a long time to do their
work.
> > > > Cooking
> > > > > products use very specific mold spores... not just any, although
one
> > could
> > > > survive
> > > > > lumpy refrigerator milk. The argument that we use mold for edible
> > > > products, and
> > > > > that we are surrounded by mold does not mean that athlete's foot,
or
> > > > trench foot (
> > > > > which really hurts) is good for you. Just as types of molds are
bred
> > for
> > > > types of
> > > > > cheese, or yogurt, it might be more meaningful to inquire as to
which
> > > > types of
> > > > > molds are best to encourage in the clay. From what I have been led
to
> > > > understand,
> > > > > which, granted, is little, once a mold is established in an area,
it
> > may
> > > > tend to
> > > > > dominate that area.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just a thought,
> > > > >
> > > > > RJS
> > > > >
> > > > > Edouard Bastarache wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Allo Will,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I just did a search in MEDLINE,
> > > > > > MEDLINE is the National Library of Medicine's database of
references
> > > > > > to more than 11 million articles published in 4300 biomedical
> > journals.
> > > > > > I have not found any ill-health effect pertaining to molds or
> > > > > > micro-organisms
> > > > > > in pottery and clay.
> > > > > > Same goes for OSHLINE-NIOSHTIC.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Later,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Edouard Bastarache
> > > > > > Irreductible Quebecois
> > > > > > Sorel-Tracy
> > > > > > Quebec
> > > > > > edouardb@sorel-tracy.qc.ca
> > > > > > http://sorel-tracy.qc.ca/~edouardb/
> > > > > > http://www.absolutearts.com/portfolios/e/edouardb/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: will edwards
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 3:06 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Moldy Clay
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I read the fears of molds perhaps having the potential to cause
harm
> > but
> > > > I
> > > > > > need to reinterate that the statement isn't to cause any such
alarm.
> > > > They
> > > > > > are
> > > > > > thousands of molds growing everywhere and at anytime. Which ones
are
> > > > poison
> > > > > > would have to be decided under a microscope. Actually some can
help
> > us,
> > > > such
> > > > > > as speeding up the process of adding additional plasticity to
clay.
> > (Kim
> > > > > > Chee
> > > > > > comes to mind/Spelling?)
> > > > > > e.coli is a bacteria. Mold(s), unlike plants, do not get their
color
> > or
> > > > food
> > > > > > from sun-light. They break down materials through enzymes and
digest
> > > > them.
> > > > > > Look at lemons that grow green fuzz and bread that grows brown
> > looking
> > > > > > stuff.
> > > > > > Two different molds! I just needed to know which food stuff
would be
> > > > best to
> > > > > > make it work quicker for me?
> > > > > > I intended on finding someone who might have some information as
to
> > > > which
> > > > > > method would be best to speed the process up for my purpose.
Simple
> > > > sugars,
> > > > > > yeast, alcohol, burlap bag etc. (?)
> > > > > > Lets seperate the gram positive clostridium perfringens from
e.coli
> > and
> > > > > > salmonella, shingella,Campylobactor and hep A before someone
assumes
> > the
> > > > > > worse. Currently I have no fears of contracting an illness from
the
> > > > clays
> > > > > > since the spores are moist and not likely to survive long upon
> > drying.
> > > > (I
> > > > > > don't know of anyone getting sick from clay mold anyways) And I
> > > > certainly
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > wash my hands. If I am lucky enough the spores will find their
way
> > to my
> > > > > > next
> > > > > > batch of clay and go to work prior to me feeding them. Keep in
mind
> > we
> > > > use
> > > > > > certain microorganisms in foods such as cheese, yogurt, kraut,
beer
> > on
> > > > and
> > > > > > on...
> > > > > > If anyone out there has found a speedy way to grow mold on my
clay
> > batch
> > > > I
> > > > > > am
> > > > > > willing to give it a try. I like the black mold myself! And I
ain't
> > > > gonna
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > the lab to see what it is. I'm already in the hole with those
folks
> > as
> > > > is.
> > > > > > What about the juice off a friendship cake starter? Mmmm - Thats
a
> > > > thought
> > > > > > too!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > William Edwards
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> >
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Edouard Bastarache on wed 18 jul 01

On Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:02:44 -0500, Chris Stanley
wrote:

>Historically speaking the addition of urine into clay is known to have
>happened in several cultures. The Japanese and the Chinese from legendary
>stories were known to age their clay in this manner. The use of urine in
>bronze patinas has also been written up by the likes of Celleni. As an
>aside, In another life, I worked with an aged plumber who swore that one of
>the reasons that you rarely got sick as a plumber was that you were exposed
>to so much (@#$%) and other wonderful materials that your body built up an
>incredible defense system to various molds and floating nastys. The same
>debate applies with anti bacterial soaps which tend to kill of the good
>germs at the same time they are killing the bad ones!
>I am not suggesting that anyone does this! I am attempting to put the
>discussion into a historical bent. Personally, I will not work my
>porcelain until there are black streaks present from age. I mix the clay
by
>hand in small 5-gallon batches as a slip and hand wedge it on a plaster
>wedging board. It works like a dream. It is a slow process, but it works
>for me.
>
>Chris
>
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Hello Chris,

very interesting observations

Edouard Bastarache

Janet Kaiser on thu 19 jul 01

There are benign moulds - just think of French cheese
like Brie (the white on the outside is a mould) as well
as the blue moulds of Stilton, Gorgonzola, Danish Blue,
etc. Yeast in bread and beer is a mould. Penicillin is
made from mould. Some people dye cloth and felt using
moulds; they can be fantastic reds, pinks, purples,
greens, yellows & blues and are very permanent. Some
moulds are not good for you, just as some fungi are
not.

Because there are thousands of different types, we
cannot worry about a single "clay mould". Even if it
would help to know what it is, each batch would have to
be tested by a microbiologist, mycologist or
toxicologist. Moulds will range from those which make
you sick to those which have positive value. There are
also wet moulds and dry moulds. The former are in clay
and are not flying around, so unless you eat the clay,
it is not going to enter your system. The latter dry
mould is easily airborne and could affect your
respiratory tract just as dust, pollen or house mites
may. Once you are sensitised, you will always be prone
to react to a particular type, but it does not mean
that it is bad or dangerous to others.

Often people who have found they are allergic to
particular moulds, yeasts and fungus or react badly to
them (including candida), have a low tolerance which
can be improved by a change in diet (excluding yeast,
processed foods/carbohydrates, white flour and sugars,
increasing greens, raw fruit and vegetables), stopping
or changing any medication being taken and upping
intake of certain minerals and vitamins. Improving poor
general health is also helpful.

There is a body of medical opinion which claims we are
becoming too squeaky clean and excluding so much from
our environments, that we are depriving our systems and
bodies of a vital function. Building up immunity to
bacteria can only happen if we are exposed to
significant levels of attack.

I am not a medic nor an expert on any of this, but the
premise that a mold is "bad" should not be perpetuated
here or anywhere else. As long as you are reasonably
healthy, practice good personal hygiene and do not
start eating mouldy clay, there is no reason I can see
to be afraid of a bit of gunk here and there. There are
far more dangerous substances being used in a studio
than the odd bag of mouldy clay!

Janet Kaiser
The Chapel of Art . Capel Celfyddyd
HOME OF THE INTERNATIONAL POTTERS' PATH
Criccieth LL52 0EA, GB-Wales Tel: (01766) 523570
E-mail: postbox@the-coa.org.uk
WEBSITE: http://www.the-coa.org.uk

Valerie Johnson on fri 20 jul 01

I had a similar occurrence that developed from studying in the basement of the law library during my first year of law school, spending maybe 10 hours a day down there. It developed into allergic pneumonia that took about a month to diagnose; I was treated with numerous antibiotic rounds until finally my doctor (who is no longer my doctor) went on vacation & the other doctor in the practice said, hey, I bet it's allergic pneumonia b/c your bloodwork shows no bacterial infection. 2 days of steroids & I was on my way to recovery. I was literally near death with this thing & had asthma symptons for years afterwards apparently due to scarring. Bottom line, get a second opinion if you can't get fixed in a week.
Valerie Johnson

Ron Roy on sun 22 jul 01

As some of you know we have moved to the country - Lucy and Minette both
suffer from allergies and this new house was built so they would be less
affected.

All the materials were chosen specifically for low VOC's. Low volatile
paint, wood instead of pressed board, tile instead of carpets - like that.

Whole kitchen is low VOC by a company that specializes in that kind of kitchen.

Some of you are obviously are not aware of this growing problem - the
allergic reaction to some very common materials. Both Lucy and Minette are
affected by molds and mildew. Good thing they are not potters.

My studio is completely sealed of from the main house - separate heating
and sealed so no air is exchanged between the two.

Lucy can give you a demo of what happens to her after a half hour in the
compost pile. In our case it is not life threatening but if you think being
dizzy for a day or two after exposure is fun - think again.

Obviously I do know there can be problems and can certainly sympathize with
those that are affected.

RR

Ron Roy
RR# 4
15084 Little Lake Rd..
Brighton,
Ontario, Canada
KOK 1H0
Residence 613-475-9544
Studio 613-475-3715
Fax 613-475-3513

Mike Gordon on mon 1 nov 04

Hi,
I was thinking about the allergy problem and mold we have been
discussing. I have seen mold on my clay from sitting around in the bags
for a long time. Soldate 60 to be exact. IF..... mold is the problem,
why couldn't you take a wire cutter, lay the clay between 2 sticks and
cut off all sides of the clay, maybe 1/4" and then wedge it up without
the moldy outside surface? Unless the problem lies within the whole
mass of clay, this might answer the question of whether or not it's the
clay or just a surface mold. I had a student, years ago, that allergic
to the clay and had to drop the class. The skin on his palms would peal
off, like a sunburn peals, all red & wrinkly like they had been in
water too long. The problem cleared up after switching from clay to a
drawing class. Mike Gordon