Cliff on wed 25 jul 01
I would like to hear from anyone who has had trouble with advancer
shelves exploding. Although the shelves look completely vitrified and
water beads off the surface when left out in the rain, the Advancers
have a small 1% absorption factor in their crystalline structure which
seems to make them susceptible to exploding when wet.
Hank Murrow on mon 24 dec 01
Lee wrote;
>santa was very nice to me a gave me advancer shelves. don't need kiln wash .
>really light. galze wont stick. couldnt wait to fire. BUT they look like the
>glazed surface has been rubbed off in shippinf and when i fired a few of
>them, most of my porcelain pieces stuck, breaking the foot. also a glaze drip
>does not come off and looks like it has foamed up and become part of the
>shelf. i did not put kiln wash on these shelves. they were fired to cone 10
>in reduction not salt. are these shelves as defective as i think they are? or
>have they been over hyped and my expectations were too high?
>
>your input before i try to return them would be greatly appreciated.
>thanks
Dear Lee;
My experience with the Advancers and the Crystar shelves has been
benign. Two from the original Crystar set broke in two, since then, no
trouble at all. I use powdered alumina oxide (100 mesh) dusted on the
shelves to act like tiny ball bearings, allowing the shrinkage to take
place without sticking. My experience tells me to never use kiln wash with
these. "Your mileage may vary". I should add that I have not tried the ITC
coatings yet. I do a LOT of plates, and so far the shelves are die-flat
after 200+ fires on them.
Good Pleading, Hank in Eugene
Lee Marshall on mon 24 dec 01
santa was very nice to me a gave me advancer shelves. don't need kiln wash .
really light. galze wont stick. couldnt wait to fire. BUT they look like the
glazed surface has been rubbed off in shippinf and when i fired a few of
them, most of my porcelain pieces stuck, breaking the foot. also a glaze drip
does not come off and looks like it has foamed up and become part of the
shelf. i did not put kiln wash on these shelves. they were fired to cone 10
in reduction not salt. are these shelves as defective as i think they are? or
have they been over hyped and my expectations were too high?
your input before i try to return them would be greatly appreciated.
thanks
lee
lee marshall
lmarsh1220@aol.com
615-286-1264
Nick Zappa on tue 25 dec 01
Have to agree with Jonathan. We use the acme marls shelves as well and they
are durable and cost efficient. Great product. Nick Zappa
Zappa Pottery & Gallery Inc.
18800 P-61 Trail
Montrose CO. 81401
www.zappapottery.com
info@zappapottery.com
970.249.6819 Studio
970.252.0303 Gallery
970.252.0104 Fax
877.504.6819 Toll Free
MartinDEpstein on tue 25 dec 01
Dear Hank, What are advancer shelves and how many posts do you use
when stacking the kiln. You say your shelves don't warp and I would like=
to know why? I fire cone 10 reduction and my mistake is probably using
only 3 posts on silicon carbide shelves that are 12 inches by 24 inches. =
What do you think?
Francine Epstein in Morris Plains, NJ who is still enjoyi=
ng
your bird bowl. =
Rare - Earth - Design on tue 25 dec 01
Lee,
Don't know what you mean by "advancer" but it sounds like you have
silicon carbide shelves and what you describe is normally what I see when
people do not use some form of shelf protection, even with protection you
are still going to get the foamed up glaze drip, it knocks off easy with any
sharpish implement. I dust my shelves with calcined alumina shaken from a
fine mesh flour sieve, it means you have to clean the bottoms later but at
least you will have bottoms.
We all fire our kilns differently so the hype, unless it were to be a very
large book, can not cover every potter, I would opt for your initial
expectations being too high but you do have great shelves and over a long
period of time you will find that santa was very very god to you.
Regards,
Bob Hollis
---- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Marshall"
To:
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2001 4:03 PM
Subject: advancer shelves
> santa was very nice to me a gave me advancer shelves. don't need kiln
wash .
> really light. galze wont stick. couldnt wait to fire. BUT they look like
the
> glazed surface has been rubbed off in shippinf and when i fired a few of
> them, most of my porcelain pieces stuck, breaking the foot. also a glaze
drip
> does not come off and looks like it has foamed up and become part of the
> shelf. i did not put kiln wash on these shelves. they were fired to cone
10
> in reduction not salt. are these shelves as defective as i think they are?
or
> have they been over hyped and my expectations were too high?
>
> your input before i try to return them would be greatly appreciated.
> thanks
> lee
>
> lee marshall
> lmarsh1220@aol.com
> 615-286-1264
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
Rikki Gill on tue 25 dec 01
Hi Lee, actually advancer shelves are made of a different material. Very
very thin and light weight. They don't actually warp, and i sometimes think
they revert back to their original shape if they do bow out a bit. I love
mine. I have 12, use them every firing, store them inside and have yet to
have a broken or cracked shelf. I have been using them for about 7 years.
Porcelain does tend to stick to the shelf surface, however. I dont use kiln
wash, tho I think that would help. I have no trouble scraping glaze drips
off the surface, so I could be Lee's shelves are defective. Hope this
helps. Rikki rikigil@cwnet.com
iginal Message-----
From: Rare - Earth - Design
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 4:53 AM
Subject: Re: advancer shelves
>Lee,
> Don't know what you mean by "advancer" but it sounds like you have
>silicon carbide shelves and what you describe is normally what I see when
>ople do not use some form of shelf protection, even with protection
Mark & Wynn Mai Fitzgerald on tue 25 dec 01
Lee,
I bit the bullet about a year and a half ago and invested over
$8000.00 in 44 21"x21" Advancers. My expectations of them were very high, and
I had spoken at length with three other potters who had all been using them
for over a year, and, to a person, they all highly recommended them.
In general, I have been very pleased with them. However, they have
not been without some problems. First of all, upon stacking the kiln with
them for the first time, I realized that I should have ordered four more of
them. My kiln is a 140 cubic ft. downdraft and my configuration for firing is
four of these shelves per level. I had previously used shelves that were 1"
thick, and because of the 5/16" thickness of the Advancers, I gained about 7"
of vertical space using the same number of shelves. Obviously, this is not a
problem with the shelves themselves, but it should be taken into
consideration by anyone contemplating their use.
I contacted Smith-Sharpe ( at the time they were still Minn.
Firebrick) and asked if they would sell me 4 more at the same price per shelf
that they had sold me the original 44 for. I had paid about $192.00/ shelf
which represented a quantity discount. The quantity being 40 or more
purchased at one time. The price for fewer than 10 was around $330.00/ shelf.
Dona, at Smith - Sharpe, checked with the manufacturer but was sorry to
report that if I only wanted 4 more I would have to pay full price. I decided
I could live with the number I had.
Now, to the problems with the shelves themselves. As I said, I have
mostly been pleased with them. I have noticed that some of my kiln furniture
sticks to them. I haven't coated the shelves with anything and I find that
maintaining the posts with kiln wash periodically pretty much solves this
problem. The reason I haven't coated the shelves themselves is because I
reverse them every other firing and don't want anything flaking off. I have
also had some glaze drips but, in my case, I have noticed that the glaze
brushes right off with a wire brush. I'm not sure what you were referring to
as the the "glazed surface rubbing off in shipping". I only know that some of
my shelves have a shinier surface than others. That's the way they came, and
that's the way they've stayed. This hasn't been a problem. I don't have a
problem with foot rims sticking, either, but I am using stoneware not
porcelain.
The really significant problem that I've experienced is that last
April, after 1 year of use, one of the shelves cracked. I heard it. As the
kiln was firing up, I heard a loud ping. At the time, I thought the angle
iron track for the kiln car had somehow shifted and caused the noise.
Unfortunately, when I unloaded, sure enough, one of the shelves in the lower
part of the kiln had cracked diagonally out from the front post to the
outside edge. I called Smith - Sharpe again and they had me send the broken
shelf back for analysis. Before the results of the analysis were complete
another shelf broke. This time during the cooling cycle of the kiln. My wife
heard this one. It was a smaller section that broke off, but, again, it was a
complete and clean break.
By this time my concern is turning to mild panic. Smith- Sharpe was
notified again and, in turn, they notified the manufacurer. Meanwhile, I
received an analysis report on the shelf I had sent back. According to this
report, there was no manufacturing defect. Their guess was that the cracks
were caused by thermal shock. My typical firing cycle is fairly conservative
in terms of temperature rise and fall, so I was unconvinced that this was the
cause. However, I lack the technical expertise to argue with the engineer's
report. So, I just accept the fact that they cracked. I don't accept that it
was necesarily due to thermal shock.
Throughout this ordeal, Dona and Marshall at Smith - Sharpe were
extremely helpful and accommodating. They have been great people to deal
with. To resolve the problem, they agreed to replace the broken shelves at no
cost to me, as well as to sell me 4 more shelves at their cost, which was
pretty close to the original price. I was satisfied with this arrangement and
had spent the past 7 and1/2 months firing ( usually 3 times/month) them
trouble-free, until a week ago. This time the kiln was cooled and more than
half unloaded and we heard that dreadful "PING" again. Same type of break,
same general location in the kiln. But the kiln car had been cooled and
rolled out for more than two hours. I don't know at this point whether or not
this will be resolved to my satisfaction, or if, worse yet, these shelves
will, over time, crack one by one. I certainly think that for the relative
amount of investment, that these shelves should hold up better than this, and
I shouldn't be holding my breath everytime I fire, cool down and unload.
Anybody??
Mark Fitzgerald
Hank Murrow on tue 25 dec 01
>Dear Hank, What are advancer shelves and how many posts do you use
>when stacking the kiln. You say your shelves don't warp and I would like
>to know why? I fire cone 10 reduction and my mistake is probably using
>only 3 posts on silicon carbide shelves that are 12 inches by 24 inches.
>What do you think?
> Francine Epstein in Morris Plains, NJ who is still enjoying
>your bird bowl.
Dear Francine;
So glad the bowl from the Shino Show is pleasing you still.
Advancer shelves (or setter tile) are made of Nitride-bonded
silicon-carbide by the St.Gobain Corp (used to be Norton). There is NO flux
material used to bind the grains of SiC together, as there is in
conventional setters. Mine are 5/16" thick x 14" x 28". I use kiln posts
like the ones illustrated in the Doorless Fiber Kiln article in the Sept
issue of CM. These are like bookshelves, where each shelf sets separately
on four lugs on the SiC posts.That way each may be removed or re-located
independently. A great boon in stacking, and also relieving each shelf of
the weight from those above. I'll attach a pic in a private post. I get
three dinner plates on each shelf, six to a layer (two shelves per layer).
The setters are really straight after all those fires. NO need to turn them.
Cheers, Hank in Eugene
Ceramic Design Group on tue 25 dec 01
> certainly think that for the relative
> amount of investment, that these shelves should hold up better than this, and
> I shouldn't be holding my breath everytime I fire, cool down and unload.
> Anybody??
>
> Mark Fitzgerald
I'll jump in on this one.
I like the "idea" of thin lightweight shelves and my back certainly would
appreciate them also. However, I think that for these benefits, the price
does not, in my opinion, merit my purchase. And here's why.
I think that we potters are very quick to jump onto or into as the case may
be for something that professes to do such and such and this new pottery
widgit is the greatest thing to happen to pottery since the wheel...and the
case goes on and on and I am sure that there are many on this list that can
cite many examples of things that were highly touted to be the next best
thing to sliced bread and just didn't perform up to specs. Now I am also
sure that there are many potters with using Advancers with a great deal of
success, but at $132 each in larger quantities and who knows what for
smaller ones, I'll stake my claim with Acme Marls Remcor composition
cordierite shelves.
Many years ago, our first experience with cordierite compositions was with
Sphinx refractories from Holland. We purchased 50 of their Alcorit
composition shelves 14" x 28" x 1" to use in conjunction with the same sized
silicon carbide ones. We purchased these in 1982 and still use them today.
They have not warped, cracked, or in any other way been rendered not
useable. As Sphinx was merged with another company, we then turned to Acme
Marls for the same sized shelves. We now have about 75 of these, and they
are rotated periodically in our fiber car kiln which holds about 25 of them.
We fire 3 times a week 46 weeks a year, and also include student work when
we can. We have never washed these shelves and see no reason to. (all
student work is fired on cookies) Our shelves are still looking brand new.
They don't warp. We cool quickly and they are designed for quick cooling.
Costs us $15.00 in natural gas, more or less, to fire our 50 cubic foot
fiber car kiln.
Each shelf weighs about 30 pounds. We e keep our car stacked relatively the
same, but there are parts of it that do change depending on the size of ware
that we are firing. If we need to move or add a shelf near the top, tearing
down the car and rebuilding the top part is a 2 person operation. Certainly
saves my back and doesn't costs $132 per shelf either. We have never had a
shelf crack under load, and many times the car is quite dense. We use alot
of Gimson plate setters and that too contributes to the weight on each
shelf. Seems that 2 people lifting a shelf and positioning it correctly
eliminates back injury, not to mention draining one's wallet.
The Remcor composition is designed for fast firing and cooling. In fact,
these shelves are used industrially in Europe by many companies, cycling
their loads faster then you or I. And they cost a fraction of an Advancer,
and even if they break in a rare case, you could probably buy 6 of them for
what it would take to replace on Advancer.
I know there are many on the list that wouldn't be without their Advancers,
but if as Mark has written, they are prone to thermal cracking, wouldn't it
be a bit more prudent to purchase shelving that is designed for quick cycles
and change work habits for lifting?
I'm open to be enlighted.
Best
Jonathan
Jonathan Kaplan, president
Ceramic Design Group
PO Box 775112
Steamboat Springs CO 80477
voice and fax 970 879-9139
info@ceramicdesigngroup.net
Plant Location:
1280 13th Street Unit 13
Steamboat Springs CO 80487
(please use this address for all deliveries via UPS, comman carrier, Fed Ex,
etc.)
"Custom design and manufacturing for the ceramic arts, giftware and pottery
industries. Molds, models, and tooling for slip casting, jiggering and
hydraulic pressing. Consultation on technical issues such as clay bodies
glazes, and kilns."
Rare - Earth - Design on wed 26 dec 01
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ceramic Design Group"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 10:53 PM
Subject: Re: advancer shelves
> > certainly think that for the relative
> > amount of investment, that these shelves should hold up better than
this, and
> > I shouldn't be holding my breath everytime I fire, cool down and unload.
> > Anybody??
> >
> > Mark Fitzgerald
>
>
> I'll jump in on this one.
>
>
> I like the "idea" of thin lightweight shelves and my back certainly would
> appreciate them also. However, I think that for these benefits, the price
> does not, in my opinion, merit my purchase.
When I first bought silicon carbide shelves years ago it was common
knowledge
among potters that they would break easily, given the abuse we craft potters
put
our equipment through.
This breaking can be avoided by having 4 cuts put in each shelf.
Each cut is done at a right angle to the edge of the shelf, is six inches
long and
ends at a hole made by a drill. The cuts are 1/3 of the way along each side.
They will NOT break, I will admit it looks as if there is no possible way
these can
hold together but they do.
Regards,
Bob Hollis
Craig Martell on wed 26 dec 01
Hey fellow kiln stackers:
The subjec of shelves comes up a lot on Clayart. That's not
surprising. We use them a lot.
I have about 30 Crystars and 12 Advancers. I've accumulated them over the
past 12 or so years. The first shelves of this type that I purchased were
Crystars which are like the Advancers but will fire hotter if you prefer
frying your pots on hi heat for a longer period. Crystars are rated to
2900 F and Advancers are rated to 2600 F. I paid $95.00 for my first batch
of Crystars and that was before Norton sold out. The most I've paid for
any of these shelves is $105.00. We usually get them thru Firebrick in St
Paul, Minnesota via a group buy. A guy here in Oregon bought $10,000.00
worth of Crystars so he could get the price break and then sold extras to
the rest of us. So it goes!
With normal care and caution in use, these shelves are a-ok! I don't baby
them and I've not lost one in the 12 or so years that I've used them. I
still haven't flipped any of the original Crystars and they are just as
flat and straight as the day I unpacked them. I'm not embellishing
this. They are really tough and strong. I give them a very light spray of
wash that is made from 75% alumina hydrate and 25% kaolin. I rewash every
couple of years and touch up when needed.
I know a lot of folks that use the Acme Marls hi aluminas. They are good
shelves and don't cost as much as the ultra thins. The big advantage for
me is the weight of the ultra thins, which is about 9lbs per shelf vs.
about 30lbs for the others. I work alone and load by myself so the light
shelves are a big plus. The very low maintainance is also a good point for
me. The shelves are always ready to go and if I have to touch up a few it
only takes a short time. Another thing I like is that I'm putting fewer
BTUs into furniture and more into the ware.
I'm not arguing the superiority of Crystars and Advancers. We all use the
best stuff we can get at a price that makes sense for our biz. If the Acme
Marls shelves are more attractive, for whatever reason, they are a good
product and are certainly worth having. I use Acme Marls plate setters and
really like them.
regards, Craig Martell in Oregon
Jennifer Boyer on wed 19 jan 05
I have some Advancers and have never had any problem with them blowing
up with normal use. They are kept off the floor in a kiln room that's
well ventilated but weather tight. I don't soak over night.
BUT I did make the hare brained mistake of kiln washing my shelves in
the morning, loading the kiln when they felt dry and firing the next
day with no overnight soak. No BLOWING up the kiln but one shelf broke
in 4 pieces, staying in place with some vases below becoming new posts!
Also a nitride bonded silicon carbide shelf split in 2. I can't believe
the mistakes I'm capable of even after 3 decades of potting!
I will preheat the next time I use kiln wash, which I do every few
years.
Jennifer
On Jan 19, 2005, at 1:38 PM, mel jacobson wrote:
> as we all know now...they blow up.
> really blow up.
>
> so, they are wonderful, easy to clean, but
> never get them wet.
> the blow up. like a bomb.
> the kiln will be destroyed.
>
> we have had several clayarters have that
> wonderful experience.
> \ talked to one in medocino. clayart saved
> him several thousand dollars.
> he used posts and talked to others that had
> kilns blow up/and he was compensated.
> now they list the dangers with the purchase.
>
> i always pre/heat my firings. (advancers)
> have a small burner that i can keep on the night before.
> takes the kiln to 600F in about 9 hours.
> things are dry.
>
> i am more concerned about my kiln and shelves/posts
> than the ware. it will be fine, not always the shelves.
> mel
> From:
> Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
> web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
> or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
> new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
> _______
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
> melpots@pclink.com.
>
>
************************
Jennifer Boyer
Thistle Hill Pottery
Montpelier, VT
http://thistlehillpottery.com
mel jacobson on wed 19 jan 05
as we all know now...they blow up.
really blow up.
so, they are wonderful, easy to clean, but
never get them wet.
the blow up. like a bomb.
the kiln will be destroyed.
we have had several clayarters have that
wonderful experience.
\ talked to one in medocino. clayart saved
him several thousand dollars.
he used posts and talked to others that had
kilns blow up/and he was compensated.
now they list the dangers with the purchase.
i always pre/heat my firings. (advancers)
have a small burner that i can keep on the night before.
takes the kiln to 600F in about 9 hours.
things are dry.
i am more concerned about my kiln and shelves/posts
than the ware. it will be fine, not always the shelves.
mel
From:
Minnetonka, Minnesota, U.S.A.
web site: my.pclink.com/~melpots
or try: http://www.pclink.com/melpots
new/ http://www.rid-a-tick.com
joyce on sun 9 dec 07
I pat my new advancers each and every time I pass them. Sometimes
I throw them a kiss, too. They've only
been fired twice but were worth every penny when I discovered how
simple it is to remove runny glazes. My. I think I'm in love.
I don't think we've mentioned just how light they are .... light as in not
heavy....... which is more important to me now than it was a couple
of years ago. They're so thin that when my son unpacked the eight
shelves and stacked them on the floor for me to transport to the studio
in my little cart, I checked and double-checked the stack to be sure that
I was correct before calling Bailey to say I needed my other two shelves.
Bailey couldn't have been more helpful but..... after several calls.... asked
me to please check the number again because they had several records
(weight of box when mailed etc) which indicated that they had sent out
eight shelves. The packaging hadn't been disturbed since leaving their
business, which to me eliminated the probability of someone else
(an Outsider!!) messing with my shelves.
Whatta ya' know?? There WERE eight which I discovered after picking up
and setting each shelf to form a new stack!! They were so thin that
unless stacked in perfect alignment it was easy to miscount, leaving out
a couple of shelves in the final total.
Even when I called Bailey to report my discovery and to say how
embarrassed I was that I hadn't restacked them in the first place,
(But who knew?) the unfortunate woman who had handled my calls
was gentle and kind, telling me that they really appreciated receiving
a call to tell them of my findings........ that often they never know what
had happened after their last call. She sounded sincere, and I
think she was. Again, what a great bunch of people. No one once
said, "you so and so dunderhead. Next time don't call unless you're
sure." Not once...................................
Joyce
In the Mojave where we, like Shula, had snow on our mountains this
morning ........ not deep and it was gone by afternoon........ but still
delightful. I've often wondered if Mojo could distinguish the mountains
which are very near to us. All I know is she took one look when I
opened the blinds as usual so she could look out from the back of the
loveseat and barked&jumped down/up/down etc as if she could see
the difference ..........
Bill Merrill on wed 30 jan 08
The American made Advancer shelves are worth their weight in gold to me.
They are light, hold heavy loads, stay flat, save a little kiln space.
Yes, you can't handle them like a gorilla, they are like glass. I have
used then for many years and non of them have failed. They won't take
crash cooling if that is the type of cooling you do, they will break. I
have never kiln washed them. I sprinkle grog size Kyanite(Mullite) on
the shelf or press a waxed foot into a thin layer of Kyanite to act as a
kiln wash. This way a porcelain pots foot will not chip off. In the
center of large porcelain platters, you can put a thin coat of rutile in
a circle. If the center does touch the shelf the rutile is very
refractory and will not stick to the shelf or break a chunk out of the
base.=20
=20
As for blowing up, I have never witnessed that happening, but I'm sure
the manufacturer of the shelves wouldn't recommend or guarantee a wet
shelf put into a fast firing.
=20
Dave Shaner used these shelves, Wally Schwab in Portland used the in the
college he taught at and has over 50 shelves in his own studio.
=20
The Chinese made shelves are not up to the standards of the Advancer
shelves. I would be wary about buying them.
=20
As with anything, we have choices and to not use advancer shelves is one
of those choices.
=20
Bill
Tom at Hutchtel.net on thu 14 may 09
I'm agreeing with Bill Merrill. We have used Advancers for 4 years now,
firing every 5 to 10, days...oxidation and reduction. 2-1/2 years ago we
added 4 imported shelves, hoping the cost savings would be realized. They
weren't over the long haul, plus the imported shelves are rougher (don't
clean as easily and are harder to handle). We've had all 4 warp and one
crack within the first year. With the Advancers there have been no defects
unless you include the breaking of the one we dropped (don't do this).
Glazes stick more to the imported, I assume because of the rougher surface.
For the most part glaze comes off Advancers with a scraper. Imported are a
bit heavier and thicker. Rough on the hands.
I would never, ever, even vaguely consider buying the imports again.
With Advancers, I suggest slowly heating them to, maybe 500 degrees for a
few hours to be sure they are completely dry. Then be sure to never get
them wet or hold them in a high humidity location.
Tom Wirt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Merrill"
Subject: Advancer shelves
The imported shelves are something I would stay away from. You will be
better off spending more on the American shelves and you won't have the
problems that have been associated with the imported shelves. Firebrick
Supply in Minneapolis is a main supplier of Advancer shelves. Ask for
Dona
You won't be disappointed in these shelves. I can attest how good they
are or I wouldn't have 50 (14" X 28") of them.
Bill Merrill on thu 14 may 09
The imported shelves are something I would stay away from. You will be
better off spending more on the American shelves and you won't have the
problems that have been associated with the imported shelves. Firebrick
Supply in Minneapolis is a main supplier of Advancer shelves. Ask for
Dona=3D20
You won't be disappointed in these shelves. I can attest how good they
are or I wouldn't have 50 (14" X 28") of them.
Bill Merrill
=3D20
117 27th Ave SE
Minneapolis, MN 55414
(612) 331-1345=3D20
-----Original Message-----
From: Clayart [mailto:Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG] On Behalf Of gary
navarre
Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 3:55 AM
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Invalid narrowing option - "1,".
Hay Crew,
I'm doing a search in the archives so I can decide which kiln shelves
to get and all I get is "Invalid narrowing option - "1,"." for "kiln
shelves", "Advancers kiln shelves", "silicon carbide", or "silicon
carbide kiln shelves" with a date range of January 1, 2000 to yesterday.
Do you suppose you could simplify the search method for an idiot like
me? I'm trying to avoid that whole discussion all over again.
Or... are the imported nitride bonded silicon carbide 12"x24"
Continental Clay is selling any good. I need a dozen and they have
quantity discounts so might decide on either the Advancers ($1766), the
imported ($720), or the standard silicon carbide ($1128). My plan was to
save on shipping and pick them up myself so I can catch the opening at
Northern Clay Center on Friday but I might have to wait.
Gary Navarre
Navarre Pottery
Navarre Enterprises
Norway, Michigan, USA
http://www.youtube.com/GindaUP
http://public.fotki.com/GindaUP/
William & Susan Schran User on fri 15 may 09
On 5/14/09 8:30 PM, "Tom at Hutchtel.net" wrote:
> Glazes stick more to the imported, I assume because of the rougher surfac=
e.
> For the most part glaze comes off Advancers with a scraper.
Tom,
The imported nitride bonded SiC shelves are ram pressed, fired once in a
nitrogen atmosphere and have nearly the same absorption rate as oxide bonde=
d
Sic shelves.
Advancer shelves are slip cast and are fired twice, once in nitrogen
atmosphere, then the second time in oxygen to form an oxide layer that
results in a smooth surface with a <1% absorption rate.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Ingeborg Foco on fri 15 may 09
Tom Wirt said:
" Rough on the hands. I would never, ever, even vaguely consider buying the
imports again. With Advancers, I suggest slowly heating them to, maybe 500
degrees for a few hours to be sure they are completely dry. Then be sure t=
o
never get
them wet or hold them in a high humidity location."
There's the crux, slow heating for two hours till 500 degrees and never hol=
d
them in a high humidity location. My kiln is pretty much impossible to hol=
d
back at the beginning and living in SW Florida with only screens for window=
s
humidity is around for most of the year. I also leave the damper open at
the end of the firing and do a pretty fast cool down. Don't know how
advancers like that.
The imports are really rough and they do warp. Mine were warped when they
were brand new? Lovely. I now see a hairline fracture on one of the
shelves so they are not of great quality. I just don't know if I want to g=
o
back to carrying and lifting a 20 lb shelf since I doubt that Advancers
would work out for me in my location and firing schedule. I don't use kil=
n
wash and they are just OK to clean.
Best,
Ingeborg
www.thepottersworkshop.com
Ingeborg Foco on fri 15 may 09
> Bill said,
>
>
> "As long as the flames are not in direct contact with the shelf they can
> take
> a fairly rapid rise in temperature. Our gas fired kiln at school is at 80=
0F
> - 1000F in the first hour, loaded with twenty Advancer shelves - never a
> problem.
>
> Don't see why you'd think Advancer shelves wouldn't work for you.
> Our kiln is in an unconditioned shed/building with slated screen doors an=
d
> two large vents on a wall. Have written before about coming in to load th=
e
> kiln, all the Advancer shelves covered in condensation, water running off
> them. Dried them with a towel, loaded them up and fired away, no problem.
>
> Concerned about storage - simple - just stack them in the kiln after
> unloading - keeps them dry."
>
>
>
>
Bill,
You make it sound as it they could work for me. I guess I have heard about
shelves "exploding" and I consider shelves to be tools that I don't want to
worry about or baby. My temp rise seems to be about the same as yours and
I have bag walls so I would say direct flame doesn't blast the shelves.
All of my shelves are stacked inside my building and don't get wet, ever.
They do get hot and I suppose feel the humidity just like I do. I don't
store anything outside but as I mentioned I do not have AC or heat for that
matter and whatever the environment is outside, well that's the way it
is inside. As for crash cooling, it isn't nearly as severe as someone
living in a northern winter climate. When I leave the damper open, the
night is most likely 70 degrees and 60 or so in the winter. Not really
very chilling.
I know you have done a lot of research on shelves and when these imports
crack and need to be replaced, I am very tempted to try the Advancers. Wha=
t
kind of life expectancy do you think they have firing to ^10 -^11?
--
Sincerely,
Ingeborg
www.thepottersworkshop.com
Hank Murrow on fri 15 may 09
On May 15, 2009, at 7:30 AM, Ingeborg Foco wrote:
>
> There's the crux, slow heating for two hours till 500 degrees and
> never hold
> them in a high humidity location. My kiln is pretty much
> impossible to hold
> back at the beginning and living in SW Florida with only screens
> for windows
> humidity is around for most of the year. I also leave the damper
> open at
> the end of the firing and do a pretty fast cool down. Don't know how
> advancers like that.
>
> The imports are really rough and they do warp. Mine were warped
> when they
> were brand new? Lovely. I now see a hairline fracture on one of the
> shelves so they are not of great quality. I just don't know if I
> want to go
> back to carrying and lifting a 20 lb shelf since I doubt that
> Advancers
> would work out for me in my location and firing schedule. I don't
> use kiln
> wash and they are just OK to clean.
Dear Ingeborg;
I think the humidity problem in your humid Florida could be handled
like I do in rainy Oregon. I use a cabinet with the shelves stored on
edge on slats, and with a light bulb or two beneath the slats to keep
them warm and dry. I sometimes cool pretty quickly and have not had
any problem with Advancers. I use no wash, preferring to spread a
thin layer of Alumina oxide over the shelf before loading. The
Alumina acts like little ball bearings, allowing the pots to shrink
without sticking, especially important with porcelain.
Cheers, Hank
William & Susan Schran User on fri 15 may 09
On 5/15/09 10:30 AM, "Ingeborg Foco" wrote:
> There's the crux, slow heating for two hours till 500 degrees and never h=
old
> them in a high humidity location. My kiln is pretty much impossible to h=
old
> back at the beginning and living in SW Florida with only screens for wind=
ows
> humidity is around for most of the year. I also leave the damper open at
> the end of the firing and do a pretty fast cool down. Don't know how
> advancers like that.
As long as the flames are not in direct contact with the shelf they can tak=
e
a fairly rapid rise in temperature. Our gas fired kiln at school is at 800F
- 1000F in the first hour, loaded with twenty Advancer shelves - never a
problem.
> The imports are really rough and they do warp. Mine were warped when the=
y
> were brand new? Lovely. I now see a hairline fracture on one of the
> shelves so they are not of great quality. I just don't know if I want to=
go
> back to carrying and lifting a 20 lb shelf since I doubt that Advancers
> would work out for me in my location and firing schedule. I don't use k=
iln
> wash and they are just OK to clean.
Don't see why you'd think Advancer shelves wouldn't work for you.
Our kiln is in an unconditioned shed/building with slated screen doors and
two large vents on a wall. Have written before about coming in to load the
kiln, all the Advancer shelves covered in condensation, water running off
them. Dried them with a towel, loaded them up and fired away, no problem.
Concerned about storage - simple - just stack them in the kiln after
unloading - keeps them dry.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
William & Susan Schran User on fri 15 may 09
On 5/15/09 1:51 PM, "Ingeborg Foco" wrote:
> I know you have done a lot of research on shelves and when these imports
> crack and need to be replaced, I am very tempted to try the Advancers. W=
hat
> kind of life expectancy do you think they have firing to ^10 -^11?
Taking good care of them, beyond your life span!
I have been using Advancers in our kiln at school - with all the student
mistakes - for 5 years now. Glaze drips come off with putty knife, a quick
once over with an angle grinder to make sure I've gotten everything off the
shelf. Have never used any kiln wash on them. They probably get flipped, bu=
t
I don't pay any attention to that. The shelves we use are 12" x 24".
I also use Advancer shelves in my studio electric kiln for my crystal glaze
firings. I did this after a few times of catch plates breaking and glaze
nearly eating through a cordierite shelf. They have the added benefit of
having a lower thermal mass, so not as much energy goes into heating them.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
ronnie beezer on tue 5 apr 11
Hi, I've been reading all the posts regarding cracking of plates and was
wondering if I use Advancer shelves in my electric kiln can I use alumina
hydrate to avoid plates or platters from cracking during the bisque and gla=
ze
firing?
Thanks,
Ronnie
William & Susan Schran User on wed 6 apr 11
On 4/5/11 10:39 PM, "ronnie beezer" wrote:
> Hi, I've been reading all the posts regarding cracking of plates and was
> wondering if I use Advancer shelves in my electric kiln can I use alumina
> hydrate to avoid plates or platters from cracking during the bisque and g=
laze
> firing?
Sure, I uses alumina on my unwashed Advancer shelves all the time.
I sprinkle/dust on a thin layer using a small sieve.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
June on wed 6 apr 11
I put alumina hydrate as powder (not as a wash) on my advancers in soda fir=
ings. Basically, I just sprinkle it on very lightly and use the palm of han=
d to spread it evenly. Then I use the flat part of my thumb to run along th=
e edges to remove it from the edge so I don't risk some dropping as I load =
the shelf.
Warm regards,
June
http://wwww.shambhalapottery.blogspot.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sodasaltfiring/
http://www.shambhalapottery.com
----- Original Message -----
From: ronnie beezer
To: Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Wed, 06 Apr 2011 02:39:05 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: Advancer shelves
Hi, I've been reading all the posts regarding cracking of plates and was
wondering if I use Advancer shelves in my electric kiln can I use alumina
hydrate to avoid plates or platters from cracking during the bisque and gla=
ze
firing?
Thanks,
Ronnie
ronniebeezer@yahoo.com on thu 7 apr 11
Thanks everyone for your responses. I will definitely use it at my next
firing.
Ronnie
-----Original message-----
From: William & Susan Schran User
To: ronnie beezer , Clayart@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Sent: Thu, Apr 7, 2011 02:47:41 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: Advancer shelves
On 4/5/11 10:39 PM, "ronnie beezer" wrote:
> Hi, I've been reading all the posts regarding cracking of plates and was
> wondering if I use Advancer shelves in my electric kiln can I use alumina
> hydrate to avoid plates or platters from cracking during the bisque and
glaze
> firing?
Sure, I uses alumina on my unwashed Advancer shelves all the time.
I sprinkle/dust on a thin layer using a small sieve.
Bill
--
William "Bill" Schran
wschran@cox.net
wschran@nvcc.edu
http://www.creativecreekartisans.com
Karen Gringhuis on fri 8 apr 11
Ronnie -=3D20
If you don't want to sprinkle loose alumina, you can mix alumina into wax=
=3D
(color #1) which you put on the foot of pots ONLY in the middle of a foot=
=3D
ring where it will NOT touch glaze edge. Then I apply a second coat of
plain wax (color #2) over this alumina mix on the whole foot ring as usua=
=3D
l.
The alumina acts as ball bearings so pots move as fired rather than
dragging & chipping their feet.=3D20
KG
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