hani and david on fri 10 aug 01
hi list, i hope you can help. when is an artist an artist? is there such a
thing as an "aspiring artist", as in an "aspiring actor"? what is the
definition of a "student" potter or artist, and when do they get to drop the
''student", for aren't we always studying? thanks, hani
Diane Echlin on fri 10 aug 01
An artist makes art. An aspiring artist tries. Don't try...just do it.
Diane in CT
hani and david wrote:
>
> hi list, i hope you can help. when is an artist an artist? is there such a
> thing as an "aspiring artist", as in an "aspiring actor"? what is the
> definition of a "student" potter or artist, and when do they get to drop the
> ''student", for aren't we always studying? thanks, hani
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
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Patrick Logue on fri 10 aug 01
hi Hani
It seems to me, that almost evryone is calling
themselves an artist of some kind or another- rap
artist, make up artist, con artist... you get the
idea.
A saying I once heard that seems to fit, was something
to the effect of: A real artist doesnt hear what they
are being labeled as, or what wannabes are calling
themselves,real artists are too busy making art to
notice.
Pat
--- hani and david wrote:
> hi list, i hope you can help. when is an artist an
> artist? is there such a
> thing as an "aspiring artist", as in an "aspiring
> actor"? what is the
> definition of a "student" potter or artist, and when
> do they get to drop the
> ''student", for aren't we always studying? thanks,
> hani
>
>
______________________________________________________________________________
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change
> your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be
> reached at melpots@pclink.com.
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Snail Scott on fri 10 aug 01
Hani-
No, we shoudn't stop studying, or aspiring either. The
question is, does that word define your relationship
to the craft? Only you can define that relationship.
Do you feel like an artist? Or not yet? I suspect that
'artist' is an umbrella term, covering all the subsets
of artistic practice, including professional, student,
dilettante, and others. Are those other categories 'real'
artists? Depends on the context. For an exhibition,
'student' might be included. For taxes, 'amateur' may
not count. Inside your own head, you make the rules,
though.
If I had to create a definition, and have it approximate
conventional practice, I'd say that 'aspiring artist' is
someone who is serious about it, but isn't ready to exhibit
professional level work yet. (Obviously, what that level
might be can vary quite a bit in the judgement of others!)
A 'student' is someone primarily pursuing education, in a
class or mentorship. I think it implies something different
from the self-taught process. Student work is often excluded
from competitions and shows because it is presumed to have
quite a lot of direct guidance and direction from someone
other than the artist, and be less 'original'. That's not
to say that student work can't be individual, or that
'independent' work can't be derivative, but there's enough
truth to the notion to justify the distinction for many.
A 'professional' artist may not be full-time or financially
self-supporting, but should maintain professional attitudes
and practices. An amateur may produce work of equal artistic
worth, but I believe it's an underlying attitude toward
doing the work that defines the difference.
Define yourself. But, be prepared to be defined by others.
-Snail
At 05:31 PM 8/10/01 +0200, you wrote:
>hi list, i hope you can help. when is an artist an artist? is there such a
>thing as an "aspiring artist", as in an "aspiring actor"? what is the
>definition of a "student" potter or artist, and when do they get to drop the
>''student", for aren't we always studying? thanks, hani
Ursula Goebels on fri 10 aug 01
To Hani,
Diane wrote : An artist makes art. An aspiring artist tries. Don't
try...just do it.
Well, with lots of experience under my belt "just do it" doesn't seem to do
it for me or the (aspiring) artists I know. I think it is the job of a
student to acquire basic skills. -Since I was never able to acquire the
basic skill of throwing a decent pot I prefer to hand build-
but no matter how you express yourself, according to Mark Hewitt it is
through repetition, refinement, insight and concentration that the
aesthetic value of our work can rise above the ordinary, "standing as a
reflection of all that has gone into it." I think if you have achieved that
you might call yourself an artist.
It's an extra bonus if the potter is able to write about his/her work as
well as Mark did in his recently published article "Just another Mug,"
Ceramics: Art and Perception,
2001, #44, pages 50-53... He describes his mug as a
material/functional/ideological and ecological object that has aesthetic and
therapeutic value, historical significance and poetic sensibility. True, for
the aspiring artist and the artist the learning never stops. Especially if
you are making functional ware you might want to get a hold of the article.
.
Kind regards, Ursula
An artist makes art. An aspiring artist tries. Don't try...just do it.
Diane in CT
hani and david wrote:
>
> hi list, i hope you can help. when is an artist an artist? is there such a
> thing as an "aspiring artist", as in an "aspiring actor"? what is the
> definition of a "student" potter or artist, and when do they get to drop
the
> ''student", for aren't we always studying? thanks, hani
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
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Ursula Goebels on fri 10 aug 01
Hi Moderator, this is Ursula ... sorry I forgot to add to my e-mail to Hani
the web page for Ceramics Art and perception. If its' not to late could you
please do so - This is my first response.. I am learning
Here it is -- Thanks,
http://www.ceramicart.com.au
An artist makes art. An aspiring artist tries. Don't try...just do it.
Diane in CT
hani and david wrote:
>
> hi list, i hope you can help. when is an artist an artist? is there such a
> thing as an "aspiring artist", as in an "aspiring actor"? what is the
> definition of a "student" potter or artist, and when do they get to drop
the
> ''student", for aren't we always studying? thanks, hani
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
vince pitelka on sat 11 aug 01
> hi list, i hope you can help. when is an artist an artist? is there such a
> thing as an "aspiring artist", as in an "aspiring actor"? what is the
> definition of a "student" potter or artist, and when do they get to drop
the
> ''student", for aren't we always studying? thanks, hani
Hani -
It is entirely arbitrary whether or not one adds the "student"
qualification. Many lifelong artists/potters still consider themselves
students. As soon as you make any attempt to make art you are an artist,
and as soon as you make any attempt to make pottery you are a potter. Bear
in mind that those appelations carry no qualitative or aesthetic judgement.
So the fact that one makes art/pots and refers to oneself as an
artist/potter is no indication that the art/pots is/are any good. That
comes only with time and experience.
Best wishes -
- Vince
Vince Pitelka
Appalachian Center for Crafts
Tennessee Technological University
1560 Craft Center Drive, Smithville TN 37166
Home - vpitelka@dtccom.net
615/597-5376
Work - wpitelka@tntech.edu
615/597-6801 ext. 111, fax 615/597-6803
http://www.craftcenter.tntech.edu/
Ababi on sat 11 aug 01
I like this letter of yours, snail.
Like Doctors musicians like us. Never stop learning never be satisfied, be
you biggest "worst" critics. Don't be exited from compliment and don't say
to yourself "I am great!"
> A 'professional' artist may not be full-time or financially
> self-supporting, but should maintain professional attitudes
> and practices. An amateur may produce work of equal artistic
This is a good point!
An elder member of my kibbutz a good painter tried to make a regional artist
club. Now, what to do when there are not so many artists in the region?
They sent invitations to anyone who might want to come.
We had a meeting. This man call us all "artists" I did not need the
title, but creators, people that paint, or sculpt or take photographs as a
hobby, once a week, were very happy to be called by their teacher,"an
Artist"
I think you should be very careful using this word, to yourself or to
others.
It is a bit different in this list because it is very professional and
seriuse
a good way I use, now, as well as in my painting day, is to put/hang in a
corner, a work that I am not sure if I like it or not, the time is
"weathering" it in my mind, good :Art, bad :Dump
bye bye
Ababi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Snail Scott"
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2001 12:20
Subject: Re: definition of artist
> Hani-
>
> No, we shoudn't stop studying, or aspiring either. The
> question is, does that word define your relationship
> to the craft? Only you can define that relationship.
> Do you feel like an artist? Or not yet? I suspect that
> 'artist' is an umbrella term, covering all the subsets
> of artistic practice, including professional, student,
> dilettante, and others. Are those other categories 'real'
> artists? Depends on the context. For an exhibition,
> 'student' might be included. For taxes, 'amateur' may
> not count. Inside your own head, you make the rules,
> though.
>
> If I had to create a definition, and have it approximate
> conventional practice, I'd say that 'aspiring artist' is
> someone who is serious about it, but isn't ready to exhibit
> professional level work yet. (Obviously, what that level
> might be can vary quite a bit in the judgement of others!)
>
> A 'student' is someone primarily pursuing education, in a
> class or mentorship. I think it implies something different
> from the self-taught process. Student work is often excluded
> from competitions and shows because it is presumed to have
> quite a lot of direct guidance and direction from someone
> other than the artist, and be less 'original'. That's not
> to say that student work can't be individual, or that
> 'independent' work can't be derivative, but there's enough
> truth to the notion to justify the distinction for many.
>
> A 'professional' artist may not be full-time or financially
> self-supporting, but should maintain professional attitudes
> and practices. An amateur may produce work of equal artistic
> worth, but I believe it's an underlying attitude toward
> doing the work that defines the difference.
>
> Define yourself. But, be prepared to be defined by others.
>
> -Snail
>
>
>
> At 05:31 PM 8/10/01 +0200, you wrote:
> >hi list, i hope you can help. when is an artist an artist? is there such
a
> >thing as an "aspiring artist", as in an "aspiring actor"? what is the
> >definition of a "student" potter or artist, and when do they get to drop
the
> >''student", for aren't we always studying? thanks, hani
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
>
tomsawyer on sat 11 aug 01
I remember reading that an artist is someone who makes something from
nothing and is able to sell it.
Howard Axner with whom I'm associated once had a funny out take on this
idea. He once said to me as we were getting ready to produce and sell our
own clay, that the pottery supply business was the only business where
someone could mix dirt and water and sell it. Now don't take offense;
obviously there is a whole lot more that goes into developing a clay body.
Tom Sawyer
tsawyer@cfl.rr.com
Kathy McDonald on sun 12 aug 01
This thread intrigues me.
I have never considered myself to be anything but a potter.
I have never aspired to be anything but a good potter,,,
in over 20 years of pot making I have never considered my work to be art.
I had the recent experience after an art and craft festival
of being described by the local press as an
artist , this made me think,,,
so hence my 2 cents on the subject:
Some basic observations I've made over the years are...
1) Being an artist depends on who is doing the describing.
2) Being an artist and a student are not incompatible, I believe they are
one in the same.
3) Being as artist depends on who you hang out with.
(conversely)
4) Becoming an artist depends on your own self definition. (ie: build it and
they wil come Ray)
I think being an artist involves an attitude and some spirit.
5) The boundary between art and craft is blurred...and has become more
blurry during the
past decade. (NO I DON"T WANT TO START THAT DEBATE!!)
Nuff said.
Kathy
http://www.willowtreepottery.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Ceramic Arts Discussion List [mailto:CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG]On
Behalf Of Diane Echlin
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 2:23 PM
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Subject: Re: definition of artist
An artist makes art. An aspiring artist tries. Don't try...just do it.
Diane in CT
hani and david wrote:
>
> hi list, i hope you can help. when is an artist an artist? is there such a
> thing as an "aspiring artist", as in an "aspiring actor"? what is the
> definition of a "student" potter or artist, and when do they get to drop
the
> ''student", for aren't we always studying? thanks, hani
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________
__
> Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
>
> You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
> settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
>
> Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
____________________________________________________________________________
__
Send postings to clayart@lsv.ceramics.org
You may look at the archives for the list or change your subscription
settings from http://www.ceramics.org/clayart/
Moderator of the list is Mel Jacobson who may be reached at
melpots@pclink.com.
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