Dale Neese on mon 13 aug 01
Kaowool is ceramic fiber insulation. It can be bought at most ceramic supply
houses. Sometimes an ad in the back of CM. Have it shipped to ya. Usually 1
inch thick in a 50 square foot roll. About $100. Comes in several
temperature grades as well as densities. I put some thin to seal my electric
kiln lid, on top of the lid, in the kiln floor, On top arch of my updraft
kiln. Attached to expanded metal hanging over the exit flue of the updraft
to disperse the heat from the metal roof. Lined the interior of my raku
kiln. So one inch to two inch squares cut to put around the rims and feet of
stacked plates. Use it over and over and over.
Always use a respirator. Gloves are helpful when cutting and handling the
stuff.
Dale Tex
Rikki Gill on mon 13 aug 01
I think it important to note that kaowool is an extremely dangerous
material. Even if you use a mask for placement, it gets all over the place.
I have stopped using it except in places where it is permanently installed,
like as a blanket on the outside top of my Olsen kiln, covered with brick to
keep it from blowing away. Any kaowool inside is covered with itc. I
wouldn't personally use it for bisque-ing, or anything that required
constant usage. Also, if it is free inside your kiln during a glost firing,
as a refractory, it can ruin a pot. I am speaking for myself, maybe others
disagree. Rikki Gill rikigil@cwnet.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Dale Neese
To: CLAYART@LSV.CERAMICS.ORG
Date: Monday, August 13, 2001 8:32 AM
Subject: ceramic fiber or Kaowool
>Kaowool is ceramic fiber insulation. It can be bought at most ceramic
supply
>houses. Sometimes an ad in the back of CM. Have it shipped to ya. Usually 1
>inch thick in a 50 square foot roll. About $100. Comes in several
>temperature grades as well as densities. I put some thin to seal my
electric
>kiln lid, on top of the lid, in the kiln floor, On top arch of my updraft
>kiln. Attached to expanded metal hanging over the exit flue of the updraft
>to disperse the heat from the metal roof. Lined the interior of my raku
>kiln. So one inch to two inch squares cut to put around the rims and feet
of
>stacked plates. Use it over and over and over.
>Always use a respirator. Gloves are helpful when cutting and handling the
>stuff.
>Dale Tex
>
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>
Dale Neese on mon 13 aug 01
Extremely dangerous? Sure for some brainless person who tries to eat or
snort kaowool it is hazardous. Make undershorts from kaowool? Maybe. I did
mention using a respirator possibly glasses and gloves. I cut my kaowool
outside the studio too. But used with a little sense it is not "extremely
dangerous". I think more people die driving SUV's with faulty tires than
mishandling kaowool.
I guess now a days you have to be sure to give everyone complete information
on a products use otherwise you will find the one person flapping around in
a kaowool cape saying he wasn't aware of kaowool potential hazards. No
personal responsibility.
It is funny, I guess, that here on the list I have read messages about
shoving all kinds of stuff from water to moth balls into electric kilns for
the sake of being experimental. Reducing Raku with oily rags and such. Where
do these things get started? Not in the classroom I hope.
Dale Tex
Clay Coordinator on tue 14 aug 01
Dale,
Did you know that Ceramic Fibre is rated as a "CLASS C" carcinogen?
It is "extremely dangerous" regardless of the common wisdom.
John Britt
Penland School
Dale WROTE:
From: Dale Neese Subject: ceramic fiber or Kaowool
Extremely dangerous? Sure for some brainless person who tries to eat or
snort kaowool it is hazardous. Make undershorts from kaowool? Maybe. I did
mention using a respirator possibly glasses and gloves. I cut my kaowool
outside the studio too. But used with a little sense it is not "extremely
dangerous". I think more people die driving SUV's with faulty tires than
mishandling kaowool.
I guess now a days you have to be sure to give everyone complete information
on a products use otherwise you will find the one person flapping around in
a kaowool cape saying he wasn't aware of kaowool potential hazards. No
personal responsibility.
It is funny, I guess, that here on the list I have read messages about
shoving all kinds of stuff from water to moth balls into electric kilns for
the sake of being experimental. Reducing Raku with oily rags and such. Where
do these things get started? Not in the classroom I hope.
Dale Tex
Dale Neese on tue 14 aug 01
Yes, Ceramic Fiber has been shown to be detrimental to health if one is
chronically exposed (breathing in ) its fibers over a long period of time I
am completely aware. In this instance of my studio use, and exercising all
due precautions as I have and will continue to do, it has minimal risks. I
just think "extremely dangerous" is over reacting.
If handled recklessly by someone without thought to reading the cautionary
statements, ceramic fiber would be extremely dangerous.
Dale Tex
WardBurner@AOL.COM on tue 14 aug 01
In a message dated 8/14/01 11:46:40 AM, clay@PENLAND.ORG writes:
<< Did you know that Ceramic Fibre is rated as a "CLASS C" carcinogen?
It is "extremely dangerous" regardless of the common wisdom.
>>
I believe you'll find that most ceramic fiber is classified as a "Class 2b"
carcinogen.
Class 1 a known human carcinogen
Class 2a a probable human carcinogen
Class 2b a possible human carcinogen
Class 3 not classifiable as to human carcinogenicity
Class 4 probably not carcinogenic to humans
Remember, the sun that shines on a pretty spring day is a Class 1 carcinogen.
Isofrax, a new fiber made by Unifrax, carries no warning labels or
classifications. Any fiber though, including Isofrax, after being exposed to
temperatures above 1800F, begins to produce small quantities of cristobalite.
Cristobalite is a Class 2a carcinogen that is linked to silicosis. It is my
belief most all potters are a subjected to far more free silica (cristobalite
is one form) from the act of making pots and glazes, than they will ever
receive from ceramic fiber.
Marc Ward
Ward Burner Systems
PO Box 1086
Dandridge, TN 37725
865.397-2914 Voice
865.397-1253 Fax
wardburner@aol.com Email
wardburner.com Online Catalog
Matt MacIntire on tue 14 aug 01
John Britt wrote:
JB> Did you know that Ceramic Fibre is rated as a "CLASS C" carcinogen?
JB> It is "extremely dangerous" regardless of the common wisdom.
I would ask John to please reference his source of this information.
From what I can tell, when using any synthetic mineral fibers, caution is
extremely prudent, but EXTREME caution is not yet indicated. I have seen no
information that suggests that ceramic fibers are extremely dangerous.
OK lets assume that we all agree about the irritant aspect of any airborne
mineral fibers. At sufficient concentrations ceramic fibers are an
irritant, no question about that.
Now, what about cancer.... My reading of the literature is that ceramic
fiber is a "suspected carcinogen" Surely some considerable caution is
adviseable. We are all exposed daily to carcinogens of various sorts. Pick
your poison; I guess that is my cavalier attitude. I don't find any reason
to be more alarmed by the threat from mineral fibers than from any of
several other hazardous materials we potters often use.
I note with particular interest that most of the problems associated with
dusts of any kind seem to result from very high concentrations. Though I
can not prove anything, I feel comfortable with low exporsure levels, and
normal precautions.
I have heard (anecdotal) information from a former Geology professor who
suggested that (for carcinogenicity of dust particles) the SHAPE and SIZE of
the fibers matters more than their exact composition. This would probably
tend to implicate ceramic fibers more. But no one knows for sure.
It is probably much more effective to give up smoking than to give up using
mineral fibers. I note that many houses are insulated with synthetic
mineral fibers that are very similar to ceramic fibers in composition, size
and shape. Intelligent use seems to be the key. Fear seems out of place.
On many levels the decision to use any hazardous mateials is a personal one.
There is no single right answer.
for those who may wish further reading...
+++++
from a MSDS for Fibrefrax:
http://www.unifrax.com/MSDSAPPR.nsf/90e6e4dddb1539738525643d006262bb/171a2d7
fde64ad5985256a11006dcadb?OpenDocument
"The International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC) classified ceramic
fiber, fibrous glasswool and mineral wool (rockwool & slagwool) as possible
human carcinogens (Group 2b) based on sufficient evidence of carcinogenicity
in animals, but insufficient data in humans."
+++++
However, silica itself is listed as a known (Group 1) carcinogen:
http://www.nssga.org/memberinfo/silica.htm
"On October 22, 1996, an International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC)
working group voted 10 to 7 to reclassify inhaled crystalline silica as a
Group1 carcinogen from a Group 2 carcinogen. IARC considers substances in
its Group 1 category to be carcinogenic to humans, while Group 2 refers to
substances IARC considers probably carcinogenic to humans. IARC classified
inhaled crystalline silica into its Group 2 category in 1987. In reaching
its 1996 reclassification decision, the working group reviewed additional
experimental animal studies and selected human epidemiological studies."
"The evidence from human studies was, according to the working group, based
on "inhalation resulting from workplace exposures." The IARC group reviewed
studies of workers exposed to crystalline silica at concentrations much
higher than are found in controlled work sites today. Even among those
studies, the working group as a whole noted that "carcinogenicity was not
detected in all industrial circumstances," and thus "may be dependent on
inherent characteristics of crystalline silica or external factors affecting
its biological activity or distribution of its polymorphs.""
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